Obamacare ruled unconstitutional by US federal judge...

[strummingram]

I think we both agree there are problems. Where we are disagreeing is how to fix those problems. I want a more free-market approach to it. You want a more socialistic approach. It's not a big deal or anything.

"Free Market" is subjective, and illusory as a result. I don't really see this as a binary "This way OR that way." I simply said that as long as people can make a profit on the general health and well-being of other people, it will always, ALWAYS be a struggle. That's not socialism, that's just my opinion.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

"Free Market" is subjective, and illusory as a result. I don't really see this as a binary "This way OR that way." I simply said that as long as people can make a profit on the general health and well-being of other people, it will always, ALWAYS be a struggle. That's not socialism, that's just my opinion.

The free market is lasseiz-faire. The concept of capitalism has been bastardized by socialists. It's like when leftists call themselves "liberals". There's nothing even remotely liberal about the Democrat Party. They might actually be more authoritarian than the Republicans at this point.

 

[ticket2ride04]

Who knows why there aren't more options. Maybe it's a problem at the state level. Maybe the barriers to entry are more than what companies are willing to pay. That doesn't make the ACA a good plan.

I can tell you why you have higher prices than where I live. Florida has an old and unhealthy population. It makes it expensive to insure. ACA comes in and helps because it is subsidized to a degree to offset those high risk members. Its the group thing you keep asking for. If you open state lines, insurers will still avoid costly places and focus on healthy ones. That is why Single Payer is the best. It creates one giant pool.

Removing ACA isn't going to magically make insurers flood your state. In fact, I would be willing to bet you will see an increase in price right away.

That didn't answer my question. I was asking if the prices post ACA were the prices after the plans were subsidized.

You're gonna need to clarify that question. Insurance rates have and will always go up. There was evidence that as ACA grew, pricing actually went up at a slower rate than before. Since its been defunded, prices are creeping up again.

You keep mentioning how much less you used to pay and that is true, but that because insurance used to be a lot cheaper. It was still increasing at the same rate. 20% of $100 is a lot less than 20% of $500.

 

[strummingram]

The free market is lasseiz-faire. The concept of capitalism has been bastardized by socialists. It's like when leftists call themselves "liberals". There's nothing even remotely liberal about the Democrat Party. They might actually be more authoritarian than the Republicans at this point.

Ist's and Ism's and labels. Such a waste.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I can tell you why you have higher prices than where I live. Florida has an old and unhealthy population. It makes it expensive to insure. ACA comes in and helps because it is subsidized to a degree to offset those high risk members. Its the group thing you keep asking for. If you open state lines, insurers will still avoid costly places and focus on healthy ones. That is why Single Payer is the best. It creates one giant pool.

Removing ACA isn't going to magically make insurers flood your state. In fact, I would be willing to bet you will see an increase in price right away.

I thought the whole point of the ACA was to socialize the costs throughout the nation. Why would my state have anything to do with that?

 

[ticket2ride04]

I thought the whole point of the ACA was to socialize the costs throughout the nation. Why would my state have anything to do with that?

So you don't really know anything about the ACA or Healthcare in general?

 

[strummingram]

I thought the whole point of the ACA was to socialize the costs throughout the nation. Why would my state have anything to do with that?

You didn't really think that. Move the conversation forward.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Ist's and Ism's and labels. Such a waste.

The words and their definitions are fine. It's what those definition get twisted into that is the issue.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

You didn't really think that. Move the conversation forward.

Then why was it passed at the federal level? We're going to pass a federal healthcare plan, but its going to be different for each state? Something isn't adding up here.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

So you don't really know anything about the ACA or Healthcare in general?

I know that when people try to argue a "more stable increase to premiums" they usually leave out the fact that those premiums are being subsidized.

 

[ticket2ride04]

Then why was it passed at the federal level? We're going to pass a federal healthcare plan, but its going to be different for each state? Something isn't adding up here.

Tell me how you think Obamacare works

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Tell me how you think Obamacare works

That's a long post. Is there something specific that you didn't like about my posts?

 

[ticket2ride04]

That's a long post. Is there something specific that you didn't like about my posts?

You can give me a general overview.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

You can give me a general overview.

No. If you have an issue with one of my statements tell me why. These whole, "you don't know what your talking about" comments don't really do your argument any justice. I don't think I've made any controversial statements in this thread. Most of what I stated is just common sense.

I do have a question that might clear some of this up. When I buy insurance from the ACA, does the risk pool come from just my state or the entirety of the US? I only ask because you guys are making such a stink about me thinking that I was part of the risk pool of all the states, not just Florida. If I am only part of the risk pool of Florida, then that is a structural failure of the ACA.

 

[ticket2ride04]

No. If you have an issue with one of my statements tell me why. These whole, "you don't know what your talking about" comments don't really do your argument any justice. I don't think I've made any controversial statements in this thread. Most of what I stated is just common sense.

I do have a question that might clear some of this up. When I buy insurance from the ACA, does the risk pool come from just my state or the entirety of the US? I only ask because you guys are making such a stink about me thinking that I was part of the risk pool of all the states, not just Florida. If I am only part of the risk pool of Florida, then that is a structural failure of the ACA.

Ok, you have almost no understanding of how health insurance works and this is definitely not the format to teach you. I’d suggest you do a little reading.

 

[Raising Heel]

There's a lot of bad information in this thread.

ETA: Regarding the original question, I'm no lawyer but I don't understand the ruling. What part of the ACA is unconstitutional?

By bringing its associated penalty down to $0, the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act stopped the individual mandate from functioning as a tax, rendering the mandate unconstitutional, the conservative AGs argued.

That's like saying if a bird's beak falls off, it's no longer a bird.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Ok, you have almost no understanding of how health insurance works and this is definitely not the format to teach you. I’d suggest you do a little reading.

LMFAO! You couldn't even answer my question? If you know so much, just tell me who all is in the risk pool. Is it just the state you live in, or is it the entirety of the US? I think you're smart enough to see the anvil coming and you're now trying to just get out of the way.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

There's a lot of bad information in this thread.

People keep saying this, but nobody is adding anything. I dont' know how you expect to have a conversation if you can't point to issues. If I'm wrong, tell me why I'm wrong. It's not like I'm always right or something.

 

[Raising Heel]

I don't know how this is going to play out since SCOTUS wrongly ruled it constitutional, even though it wasn't. Does it go back to SCOTUS again?

It will most likely go to the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, which has jurisdiction over Texas.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

It will most likely go to the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, which has jurisdiction over Texas.

Oh, I don't disagree with any of that. I think in the story it said that the Democrats were already planning an appeal. You would be crazy to think they won't appeal this.

 

[Raising Heel]

People keep saying this, but nobody is adding anything. I dont' know how you expect to have a conversation if you can't point to issues. If I'm wrong, tell me why I'm wrong. It's not like I'm always right or something.

I'm going to waste the remainder of my afternoon offering some clarifications. Stay tuned.

To answer your most recent question, if you purchase a plan on the healthcare exchange in Florida, you are part of the state risk pool. That's not "a structural failure of the ACA." Health insurance cannot be sold across state lines.

 

[prlyles]

You almost never have any idea what you are talking about. I like your spirit, but the facts aren’t often on your side. I’d offer you some friendly advice to dig a little deeper and maybe try and get your news from places you aren’t using currently.

I tried to tell him the same thing yesterday....

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I'm going to waste the remainder of my afternoon offering some clarifications. Stay tuned.

To answer your most recent question, if you purchase a plan on the healthcare exchange in Florida, you are part of the state risk pool. That's not "a structural failure of the ACA." Health insurance cannot be sold across state lines.

And that couldn't have been changed? How is intentionally keeping the risk pool smaller not a huge problem? I would also like to point out that people 65 or older are on Medicare, so I rather doubt there are a lot of retirees on ACA plans.

 

[ticket2ride04]

LMFAO! You couldn't even answer my question? If you know so much, just tell me who all is in the risk pool. Is it just the state you live in, or is it the entirety of the US? I think you're smart enough to see the anvil coming and you're now trying to just get out of the way.

Anvil? LMFAO. You are stuck buying in Florida homie.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I tried to tell him the same thing yesterday....

And just like her, you never give specifics. You insult people with broad statements and then hide behind them. No big deal. That's the MO of most people on the internet.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Anvil? LMFAO. You are stuck buying in Florida homie.

Someone was already nice enough to answer for you. It just another massive flaw with what was already bad legislation.

 

[ticket2ride04]

And just like her, you never give specifics. You insult people with broad statements and then hide behind them. No big deal. That's the MO of most people on the internet.

Plenty of facts have been given. You ignore them

Someone was already nice enough to answer for you. It just another massive flaw with what was already bad legislation.

Selling across state lines is a talking point that won’t help. Why would people want to sell in a shitty state when they are making a profit in a good one?

 

[Raising Heel]

The ACA will eventually fold due to the declining risk pool. It was doomed from the start. It was terrible legislation that gives power to the insurance companies.

The ACA is healthier than ever. Enrollment has declined slightly, partially due to the administration not advertising it and partially due to the removal of the mandate/penalty. Despite this, insurers are re-entering the market in a number of states.

You're probably only aware of 1/10th of what's in the ACA. It goes far beyond health insurance. Calling it "terrible legislation" is kind of silly if you aren't even aware of how it has changed healthcare delivery and provider reimbursement.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Plenty of facts have been given. You ignore them



Selling across state lines is a talking point that won’t help. Why would people want to sell in a shitty state when they are making a profit in a good one?

But we're talking about a federal plan that was supposed to keep costs low. How do you do that by hamstringing yourself? Besides, as I poasted earlier, I'm guessing that none of these retirees are on ACA plans.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

The ACA is healthier than ever. Enrollment has declined slightly, partially due to the administration not advertising it and partially due to the removal of the mandate/penalty. Despite this, insurers are re-entering the market in a number of states.

You're probably only aware of 1/10th of what's in the ACA. It goes far beyond health insurance. Calling it "terrible legislation" is kind of silly if you aren't even aware of how it has changed healthcare delivery and provider reimbursement.

Have you ever had a plan? I have. If there aren't problems with reimbursement, then why does hardly anyone take it? Do doctor's just have the habit of turning people away?

 

[Raising Heel]

And that couldn't have been changed? How is intentionally keeping the risk pool smaller not a huge problem? I would also like to point out that people 65 or older are on Medicare, so I rather doubt there are a lot of retirees on ACA plans.

Allowing plans to sell across state lines would have virtually no effect because the cost of building a provider network is prohibitive. Six states have enacted laws to allow it, yet not a single new insurer has entered their markets.

If you live in Florida, the risk pool is already substantial enough. Expanding it nationally would have no meaningful impact on your rates. Not sure what point you're trying to make about Medicare.

I think @ticket2ride04 already pointed it out, but you don't have to buy a health insurance policy on the exchange. You could simply buy an individual plan from one of the numerous brokers in Florida. I'm also a little skeptical about a doctor not accepting your plan. Which insurer issued it?

 

[prlyles]

And just like her, you never give specifics. You insult people with broad statements and then hide behind them. No big deal. That's the MO of most people on the internet.

1. I have not insulted you. 2. I'm not hiding.

 

[Raising Heel]

As more people enrolled in the exchanges, pricing was supposed to come down. Republicans defunded the exchanges and insurance companies colluded to keep prices up.

Point of clarification. That chart only reflects employer-sponsored health benefits, i.e. insurance provided to employees by their employers. It doesn't reflect the individual, group, or ACA markets.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here: "Republicans defunded the exchanges and insurance companies colluded to keep prices up." I could make some guesses about the first part but won't. As for insurance companies colluding, that's not how any of this works. Insurers are required to present rate increase proposals to their respective Departments of Insurance each year. Generally speaking, double-digit increases have to be approved by the DOI. Rates have been increasing for a variety of reasons, but collusion isn't one of them.

 

[Grayhead]

And just like her, you never give specifics. You insult people with broad statements and then hide behind them. No big deal. That's the MO of most people on the internet.

I dont care about most of this arguement outside of part of this statement. Who do you think is a "her"

Women typically have a short survival rate on this board

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Allowing plans to sell across state lines would have virtually no effect because the cost of building a provider network would be prohibitive. Six states have enacted laws to allow it, yet not a single new insurer has entered their markets.

If you live in Florida, the risk pool is already substantial enough. Expanding it nationally would have no meaningful impact on your rates. Not sure what point you're trying to make about Medicare.

I think @ticket2ride04 already pointed it out, but you don't have to buy a health insurance policy on the exchange. You could simply buy an individual plan from one of the numerous brokers in Florida. I'm also a little skeptical about a doctor not accepting your plan. Which insurer issued it?

Where are these plans at? I've looked and I can't find anything outside of some company called National General Insurance, which people are blasting. Nobody sells individual plans down here anymore.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

1. I have not insulted you. 2. I'm not hiding.

You sure are hiding behind your statements. You never elaborate what your issues are.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Point of clarification. That chart only reflects employer-sponsored health benefits, i.e. insurance provided to employees by their employers. It doesn't reflect the individual, group, or ACA markets.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here: "Republicans defunded the exchanges and insurance companies colluded to keep prices up." I could make some guesses about the first part but won't. As for insurance companies colluding, that's not how any of this works. Insurers are required to present rate increase proposals to their respective Departments of Insurance each year. Generally speaking, double-digit increases have to be approved by the DOI. Rates have been increasing for a variety of reasons, but collusion isn't one of them.

That makes more sense. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[ticket2ride04]

Point of clarification. That chart only reflects employer-sponsored health benefits, i.e. insurance provided to employees by their employers. It doesn't reflect the individual, group, or ACA markets.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here: "Republicans defunded the exchanges and insurance companies colluded to keep prices up." I could make some guesses about the first part but won't. As for insurance companies colluding, that's not how any of this works. Insurers are required to present rate increase proposals to their respective Departments of Insurance each year. Generally speaking, double-digit increases have to be approved by the DOI. Rates have been increasing for a variety of reasons, but collusion isn't one of them.

1. Missed that note on the graph. Isn’t it representative in general or rate growth?

2. Didn’t they short change the CO-OPs making it harder to sure up the exchanges?

3. I meant collusion in the sense that no one is lowering costs or looking to innovate.

 

[Raising Heel]

Where are these plans at? I've looked and I can't find anything outside of some company called National General Insurance, which people are blasting. Nobody sells individual plans down here anymore.

There are four insurers and five HMOs in Florida selling ACA plans for 2019 (list). Generally speaking, the HMOs will have less robust benefits and "narrow" networks. The latter means you'll have fewer choices when selecting a doctor, but the tradeoff is that HMOs typically have lower premiums.

The best thing to do is use the healthcare.gov website to determine which plans are sold in your area. Today is the last day you can enroll* so you have to hurry.

* In case anyone thought yesterday's ruling wasn't politically motivated.

 

[prlyles]

You sure are hiding behind your statements. You never elaborate what your issues are.

That's the point. I have no issues. I'm simply saying you do a lot of talking about things you obviously know little about.