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Okay... Here is what I saw...

imajericho

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UNC came out and had MSU out of sort with the pace. Roy clearly told them to come out and ram it down their throats and we did over and over and over. The pace was exactly where we wanted it and MSU was thrown out of sorts by the pace.

Normally, this pace being so blistering and having the other team out of sort leads us to a quick early lead which we use to lean on. This did not happen due to boneheaded mistake after mistake. Thus, it backfired as we shot our own confidence in the opening minutes by struggling when things should have been easy.

While we were feasting on the weaker competition, we failed to use our eyes to remember our issues. However, some of our strengths were reaffirmed. Some thoughts.

1. Our perimeter defense is very, very good. Williams, Seventh, Pinson, and Berry are very strong defenders on the perimeter in pretty much that order. We force a lot of teams out of sorts with 1 on 1 man defense on the perimeter. A lot of ball denials, on ball pressure, and just in general making things hard on people.

2. Joel Berry is a bit slow defensively in that he cannot stay in front of the quicker more explosive point guards. Michigan State collapsed our defense repeatedly over and over by their PG blowing past Berry, driving below the basket to collapse help defense on him, and leaving the easy kick out to a wide open 3 pointer.

3. The bigs showing on screens seem a bit confused, including Luke Maye. Most the freshman bigs seem confused as to when to go back. We got lucky quite a few times Michigan State could not capitalize on wide open inside guys due to a poor show and return to the man. Quite a few were out of position and were poor to recover. Luke Maye is showing but seems to be slightly out of position when doing so which is not really providing anything of note. He is almost just providing a screen at times.

4. Luke Maye cannot defend the post and cannot protect the rim versus slashers. Like Maye's defense is much better away from the basket. True bigs just go right over top of him. Quicker defenders just blow right past him to the basket which happened a few times last night. He, however, is a smart defender, and sometimes he analyzes the play and hedges to the spot beforehand to get in front of the offensive player and make them shoot with a body in front of them. The best offensive players will just finish over top of him, however it causes a lot of misses when he can do that. He, however, has to see the play and make that analysis in order to get there.

5. Joel Berry has zero idea how to use his body to finish. Joel Berry will not be drafted next year, and it has to do with his speed and inability to smartly use his body to compensate for his lack of height and speed. If you cannot dunk and are not fast enough to break away from people, then you have to learn to use your body and the finger roll to finish. Joel Berry has to of been blocked 10+ times on layups this year already. Some are just driving in against a big, but there is a surprising amount of where he is past the defender and the defender just recovers and blocks the shot. Usually Joel has been compensating by taking a lower percentage layup by going high up off the glass. However, Joel is taking high percentage shots and making them look like they are difficult. Yesterday's example of when he got run down for a block was the same issue. Joel cannot explode to the basket. Instead of using his body, he tries a weak layup (sometimes he tries to reverse his layup or so). All Joel Berry has to do in these situations is go directly at the hoop. Extend his arm out towards the basket while keeping his body directly behind himself to shield the defender off from his hand and complete the finger roll into the basket. Joel seems so insistent on using the backboard instead of the finger roll when the finger roll is what a guy his size needs to use when ahead of the defense. It creates less steps to get to the basket. It shields the defender off. It lowers the time a shot can be blocked due to the nature of the shot. These are easy points we are throwing away.

6. Lots of missed layups and free throws and open 3 points. If we make half of those layups and free throws and shot just 25% from 3 we win the game. Our defense was very strong. Our offense lost this game. Nothing else. And a lot of it was open shots missed.

7. The inside guys have no inside presence allowing the defense to extend out. Like Maye does not have a inside hook. Manley does not have a inside hook. Neither does Huffman. And Brooks has zero idea how to use his. Luke Maye was trying to slowly turn and shoot a jumper. He found out harshly that does not work against defenders not smaller than him. Brooks didn't use his body at all to cause separation and basically handed the ball over due to a block repeatedly. Huffman looked confused as to what to do when he couldn't dunk the ball. Manley continually turns the wrong way. He kept turning away from the basket to take a shot when he had position and simply turning to the basket puts the rim in a position he cannot be blocked while he can put in an easy lay up. Lost opportunities.

8. Inside guys defense is bad. Too slow. Wrong positioning. Combined with the bad hedging it created quite a few plays where we were chasing defenders or leaving them wide open. Luke Maye gets shot right over.

9. Luke Maye continues to make half assed passes in the worst spots causing turnovers. This game he had the ball on the right side of the arc and tried to throw across the defense to the left upper part of the arc. He threw a slow pass right through the key which the defender easily just jumped up and caught. Just a poor decision of a pass. He is overthinking his passes hard.

10. Rohlman weirdly outperformed our bigs in the post in his couple of minutes of pissed Roy time. He had a defensive rebound and he tipped out a missed FT on the offensive glass. This is a guy like a foot smaller than the Michigan State players.



The inside presence is likely never to get fixed this year with our personnel. But other things are fixable, such as Joel Berry's usage of Body. The hedging properly. Etc. In fact, Cam Johnson coming back and us going smaller may remove a lot of deficiencies we are seeing.

We will have to see though.

As it stands now, we are reliant on the jumper. If it is not falling, we are going to struggle.
 
Roys veteran teams have trouble executing in the half court but most teams cannot contain our break. Last night, MSU executed their keys to the game(no fastbreak advantages, few open looks in the half court, ball pressure on every position (Pinson, Maye, Brooks, are not good decision makers with ball pressure).

Cam will help when he gets back but this team will not be able to execute successfully, the half court against top athletic teams. Shooters are not gonna be the problem, open shots are the challenge. Players make UNCs half court work so someone off the bench will have to provide the answer. Pinson has his strengths but facilitating is not one of them. Roy maybe has one player besides Berry who can attack with the ball in the half court and maybe thats, Felton. Hope to see more playing time for JF so he can figure out how to help bring the talent out of the starters in the half court. It takes months to develop.

Roy has a couple of practices to teach but there is a lot to cover. We gave great effort but our execution was squashed.
 
Ole Roy gonna have fun in the film room with this one...

Yeah, there were some defensive lapses but the story of this game was our inability to score. We had to have 7 or 8 missed lay ups. WE had guys turn directly in to their man and go straight up, not drive in to their man mind you just turn in to him so our shooter was directly in the shot block sweet spot? I lost count of how many times I screamed Luke, what the heck was that, was that some kind of a shot? Just terrible shot selection, oh the joy of watching Theo pumping up treys, of course Theo is the one guy we all want putting up treys? Yeah, it was fun to watch Joel pumping up 40ft off balance treys to, would have been nice to see our star PG drive and try to create for a spot up shooter every now and then but when that happened it seemed like Theo was the only spotted up shooter that could be found...

First 2 games of this tourney we attacked, took the fight to the opponents, this game we took the blows and staggered for 40mins.

No way to spin this one, it was as ugly as ugly gets. IT was poor passing, poor decision making, poor shot selection, poor free throw shooting, just a poor effort, has to get better than that...
 
Izzy has always been a "D" wizard....thought it showed up tonight! He game planned well for us and it showed!!! Props to Michigan State....they are ranked 2nd in the country for a reason!!!
 
Roy clearly told them to come out and ram it down their throats and we did over and over and over.
Yep.

Made me think of that game against UCLA when Dean had Larry Miller drive on Lew Alcindor the first 3 plays of the game. Only to have Alcindor stuff it 3 straight times.

Then Dean changed tactics.

Didn't win the game, but changed tactics.
 
3. The bigs showing on screens seem a bit confused, including Luke Maye. Most the freshman bigs seem confused as to when to go back.
That sounds right. On the plus side, I noticed a couple of times when Brooks and even Huffman set screens and I was cringing expecting them to move and get called, but they did them very well. That's promising for the future. Frosh bigs often have trouble with moving screens.
 
good analysis by all. we won't see major improvement with our 3 freshman bigs this year I don't believe. we have to develop them at some level but also maintain a lineup that puts us in best position to win games and that is going small.
 
Maye does not have a inside hook. Manley does not have a inside hook. Neither does Huffman.
I've seen Manley use a pretty hook in other games. The one I noticed this game was really ugly and way off.

The only hook I think I've seen Huff take was in this game. The form was OK, but the aim was horrific.
 
I've seen Manley use a pretty hook in other games. The one I noticed this game was really ugly and way off.

The only hook I think I've seen Huff take was in this game. The form was OK, but the aim was horrific.

Manley could eventually have a very effective hook and turnaround jumper. The touch is there, he just needs to figure out how to use his size (which could take a while).

I'd be surprised if Huffman ever has a non-dunk/layup shot that goes in more than 35% of the time. Coordination and touch are not his strengths.
 
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I think in general we don't do a good job of using our bodies on layups. I assume Roy teaches aversion rather than contact there. Definitely would help if some guys would do this when it is necessary.
 
good analysis by all. we won't see major improvement with our 3 freshman bigs this year I don't believe. we have to develop them at some level but also maintain a lineup that puts us in best position to win games and that is going small.
We are already going small a lot. It's been working pretty well. Against MSU it just didn't pan out.

Luke played 32 minutes.

BroHuffMan played 34 minutes.

That's 66 out of 80 "normal" front line minutes.

That's a lot of small ball. Most of it presumably with Luke as the only big on the court for us.

Would more small ball be better?
 
UNC came out and had MSU out of sort with the pace. Roy clearly told them to come out and ram it down their throats and we did over and over and over. The pace was exactly where we wanted it and MSU was thrown out of sorts by the pace.

Normally, this pace being so blistering and having the other team out of sort leads us to a quick early lead which we use to lean on. This did not happen due to boneheaded mistake after mistake. Thus, it backfired as we shot our own confidence in the opening minutes by struggling when things should have been easy.

While we were feasting on the weaker competition, we failed to use our eyes to remember our issues. However, some of our strengths were reaffirmed. Some thoughts.

1. Our perimeter defense is very, very good. Williams, Seventh, Pinson, and Berry are very strong defenders on the perimeter in pretty much that order. We force a lot of teams out of sorts with 1 on 1 man defense on the perimeter. A lot of ball denials, on ball pressure, and just in general making things hard on people.

2. Joel Berry is a bit slow defensively in that he cannot stay in front of the quicker more explosive point guards. Michigan State collapsed our defense repeatedly over and over by their PG blowing past Berry, driving below the basket to collapse help defense on him, and leaving the easy kick out to a wide open 3 pointer.

3. The bigs showing on screens seem a bit confused, including Luke Maye. Most the freshman bigs seem confused as to when to go back. We got lucky quite a few times Michigan State could not capitalize on wide open inside guys due to a poor show and return to the man. Quite a few were out of position and were poor to recover. Luke Maye is showing but seems to be slightly out of position when doing so which is not really providing anything of note. He is almost just providing a screen at times.

4. Luke Maye cannot defend the post and cannot protect the rim versus slashers. Like Maye's defense is much better away from the basket. True bigs just go right over top of him. Quicker defenders just blow right past him to the basket which happened a few times last night. He, however, is a smart defender, and sometimes he analyzes the play and hedges to the spot beforehand to get in front of the offensive player and make them shoot with a body in front of them. The best offensive players will just finish over top of him, however it causes a lot of misses when he can do that. He, however, has to see the play and make that analysis in order to get there.

5. Joel Berry has zero idea how to use his body to finish. Joel Berry will not be drafted next year, and it has to do with his speed and inability to smartly use his body to compensate for his lack of height and speed. If you cannot dunk and are not fast enough to break away from people, then you have to learn to use your body and the finger roll to finish. Joel Berry has to of been blocked 10+ times on layups this year already. Some are just driving in against a big, but there is a surprising amount of where he is past the defender and the defender just recovers and blocks the shot. Usually Joel has been compensating by taking a lower percentage layup by going high up off the glass. However, Joel is taking high percentage shots and making them look like they are difficult. Yesterday's example of when he got run down for a block was the same issue. Joel cannot explode to the basket. Instead of using his body, he tries a weak layup (sometimes he tries to reverse his layup or so). All Joel Berry has to do in these situations is go directly at the hoop. Extend his arm out towards the basket while keeping his body directly behind himself to shield the defender off from his hand and complete the finger roll into the basket. Joel seems so insistent on using the backboard instead of the finger roll when the finger roll is what a guy his size needs to use when ahead of the defense. It creates less steps to get to the basket. It shields the defender off. It lowers the time a shot can be blocked due to the nature of the shot. These are easy points we are throwing away.

6. Lots of missed layups and free throws and open 3 points. If we make half of those layups and free throws and shot just 25% from 3 we win the game. Our defense was very strong. Our offense lost this game. Nothing else. And a lot of it was open shots missed.

7. The inside guys have no inside presence allowing the defense to extend out. Like Maye does not have a inside hook. Manley does not have a inside hook. Neither does Huffman. And Brooks has zero idea how to use his. Luke Maye was trying to slowly turn and shoot a jumper. He found out harshly that does not work against defenders not smaller than him. Brooks didn't use his body at all to cause separation and basically handed the ball over due to a block repeatedly. Huffman looked confused as to what to do when he couldn't dunk the ball. Manley continually turns the wrong way. He kept turning away from the basket to take a shot when he had position and simply turning to the basket puts the rim in a position he cannot be blocked while he can put in an easy lay up. Lost opportunities.

8. Inside guys defense is bad. Too slow. Wrong positioning. Combined with the bad hedging it created quite a few plays where we were chasing defenders or leaving them wide open. Luke Maye gets shot right over.

9. Luke Maye continues to make half assed passes in the worst spots causing turnovers. This game he had the ball on the right side of the arc and tried to throw across the defense to the left upper part of the arc. He threw a slow pass right through the key which the defender easily just jumped up and caught. Just a poor decision of a pass. He is overthinking his passes hard.

10. Rohlman weirdly outperformed our bigs in the post in his couple of minutes of pissed Roy time. He had a defensive rebound and he tipped out a missed FT on the offensive glass. This is a guy like a foot smaller than the Michigan State players.



The inside presence is likely never to get fixed this year with our personnel. But other things are fixable, such as Joel Berry's usage of Body. The hedging properly. Etc. In fact, Cam Johnson coming back and us going smaller may remove a lot of deficiencies we are seeing.

We will have to see though.

As it stands now, we are reliant on the jumper. If it is not falling, we are going to struggle.


1 - I agree wholeheartedly.
2 - I agree here too. Duval from duke scares the hell out of me.
3 - I noticed this too. I though Luke was ok but everybody else was scrambling. And MSU bailed us out by not finding the open man.
4 - No, Luke cannot defend very well in the post. He tries hard and like you say, he's smart and tries to beat guys to the spot. But he's limited.
5 - He has not been doing this well this year. But last year he was proficient in using his body. He looks a little too nonchalant for my liking. But in fairness, the refs last night allowed guys to have their hands all over Joel when he was driving. He struggled to adjust. It's one of many reasons he won't be drafted (maybe late second round if he plays great down the stretch).
6 - Agreed. That's why I'm not really worried about last night's game. It didn't "expose" us or any other nonsense. We just didn't make a lot of shots that we'll make in the future. But it does show that we have a low floor when we're not hitting shots. I think we all knew that anyway.
7 - Again, they're young and green and will learn throughout the season. To me, Manley is the best bet moving forward this year. He's got the best measurables and seems to be a quick study.
8 - This seems like an extension of a couple other notes earlier in your OP. And again, we knew the freshman bigs would struggle. I'm surprised it took until game 6 for it to rear it's ugly head.
9 - I know the pass you're referencing and I was disappointed he threw it also. But I cannot recall another one this year like that and the way you wrote your poast makes it sound like this is a habitual problem for Maye. I don't see that. maye is a good decision maker and a good passer. That will clearly bear out throughout the season.
10 - I wish I was built like Aaron Rohlman. Good god, that dude is a physical specimen. He's strong as an ox. I'd like to see him get some minutes here and there. I was impressed with his tenacity underneath.
 
Maye threw about 4 passes against Arkansas that were hard to believe(not in a good way) . So last night wasn't the first time it's happened, I think that's what the op was referring to.
 
1 - I agree wholeheartedly.
2 - I agree here too. Duval from duke scares the hell out of me.
3 - I noticed this too. I though Luke was ok but everybody else was scrambling. And MSU bailed us out by not finding the open man.
4 - No, Luke cannot defend very well in the post. He tries hard and like you say, he's smart and tries to beat guys to the spot. But he's limited.
5 - He has not been doing this well this year. But last year he was proficient in using his body. He looks a little too nonchalant for my liking. But in fairness, the refs last night allowed guys to have their hands all over Joel when he was driving. He struggled to adjust. It's one of many reasons he won't be drafted (maybe late second round if he plays great down the stretch).
6 - Agreed. That's why I'm not really worried about last night's game. It didn't "expose" us or any other nonsense. We just didn't make a lot of shots that we'll make in the future. But it does show that we have a low floor when we're not hitting shots. I think we all knew that anyway.
7 - Again, they're young and green and will learn throughout the season. To me, Manley is the best bet moving forward this year. He's got the best measurables and seems to be a quick study.
8 - This seems like an extension of a couple other notes earlier in your OP. And again, we knew the freshman bigs would struggle. I'm surprised it took until game 6 for it to rear it's ugly head.
9 - I know the pass you're referencing and I was disappointed he threw it also. But I cannot recall another one this year like that and the way you wrote your poast makes it sound like this is a habitual problem for Maye. I don't see that. maye is a good decision maker and a good passer. That will clearly bear out throughout the season.
10 - I wish I was built like Aaron Rohlman. Good god, that dude is a physical specimen. He's strong as an ox. I'd like to see him get some minutes here and there. I was impressed with his tenacity underneath.
Point 9. Rewatch the Arkansas game. Maye had an astronomical number of poor passes.
 
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Maye has made some awful passes. Not sure how anybody can say otherwise. Overall he’s a very smart player but he’s good for a what the F pass at least once a game. Usually nonchalant cross court pass picked off left or right of foul line depending on the side. Other common offender is the exit pass back off the block. A few games this year he’s done it 2 or 3 times.
 
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