Who Needs to Work On What?

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Most of the attention for now might be on who stays and who goes, and what we need in the portal.

Fair enough, but also very important is what our returning players need to do to be what we need them to be next season.

Some of these are obvious. Elliot and Seth need to become better shooters and, in particular, become confident in their outside shooting. What else?

Withers

He's really quick. Sometimes too quick. He needs to work on securing the ball - whether passes, rebounds or in scrambles. Especially before dribbling, but also sometimes before shooting. I can't tell if he has bad hands or just sometimes gets ahead of himself. Either way, surely there are drills for that. I still think he can be a star, but not if he can't get this under control.

Cadeau

Work on alley-oops. I bitched a month or 2 ago that with a great passer like EC, several decent jumpers like Withers, Ingram, Seth and even Okonkwo, not to mention tall guys like Armando and Washington, we should be seeing lots of alley-oops. Once I bitched about it, I started paying attention. Turns out that being a really good regular passer doesn't automatically mean you're a good alley-oop passer. I have no idea why. Will practice make perfect?

Washington

Strength, stamina, and reaction time. Brice Johnson's offensive moves were as quick as they come - maybe second only to Antawn Jamison. But on defense he was no better than average. Not bitching at him, just pointing out that there are different kinds of reaction time. Washington isn't in Brice's league on offensive quickness, but he's pretty quick and very accurate - so we need him on the floor. But his reaction time to other guys' moves or passes leaves a lot to be desired. Is there a drill for that?

That should be enough to get the conversation going.

 

[DSouthr]

Cadeau: The low hanging fruit is working on his jump shooting as well as shooting foul shots. I think a MAJOR thing with him is just maturing as a young man, becoming the un-questioned on court leader, as he has at every other level prior to college. Have to keep in mind, the kid was a re-class freshman and mention that there will surely be folks line up to remind you that he was the proper age for his class. But what actually matters is not the kid's age but how many years of ball did he play at that level, his experience is less than that of a kid that did not re-class. The lack of maturity showed itself to often but that will abate with age.

Withers: Speaking just to his game and not about him as a kid, he did not seem to understand his role in the pecking order of things. He seemed to feel his game was on par with guys like RJ and Bacot and that he could create his own offense when ever he touched the ball. He forced things that just were not there, really poor decisions and had the added knack of doing the wrong thing at the worst time. I don't know if it is basketball IQ or over estimation of your own limitations, I suspect more the later but his mind set has to change and it has to stay changed.

Washington: Clearly his body needs to continue to get stronger, especially his base (lower body), still seemed a bit weak and un-sure there. Yeah, his defense needs work but that is as much mental as it is physical, didn't always seem on the same page defensively and ended him up in no man's land (in between) way to often. He really needs to become more assertive on the offensive end, needs to look for his ops for that jump shot, hitting a few should do wonders for his over all game.

Trimble: He still is not confident in his jump shot thou it looks a lot better, he needs now to take his shot with confidence, with belief that it is going in. That is the diference between Seth and RJ as jump shooters, RJ believes every shot will drop, Seth isn't sure. Really needs to tighten up his ball handles.

High: If he does not portal out, I would not be surprised if he did because his minutes don't look good projecting to next season. But if he does stay, WEIGHT ROOM and a really great Mexican buffet, topped off with a trip to Mama Dips!

Okonkwo: Uh, study really hard in class and get a degree in a really well paying industry?

RJ & Ingram, gonna wait till we know what they will be looking to do, NBA or back?

 

[DSouthr]

Want to ask, you were talking about Jalen's reaction time, not sure if you were speaking to his ability to process information (Basketball IQ) or if it is more his ability to have peripheral vision and see what is going on all around him, I kind of suspect the later, he seems to have tunnel vision at times and not see what is going on around him, has got him burned multiple times. He was not on the same page OFTEN on the defensive end for sure.

 

[NathanFielder]

A general thing I'd like all our guards/wings to have in their bag. The ability play in the paint off 2 feet. Probably less for Cadeau or RJ since they're too small. But anyone like 6'3" to 6'8", develop the footwork and lower body strength/agility to play off 2 feet in the paint. Think Jay Wright's guards at Villanova. Jalen Brunson, Ryan Archidiaccano, Donte DiVicenzo all could do it. Puts a lot of pressure on defensive guards who aren't used to defending in that position.

But that's probably a pipe dream. I don't really recall any UNC guard to have a post up game in recent memory other than maybe McCants?

Cadeau:
Apart from the obvious... Develop a floater game. He's starting from 18% 3PT. Most even bad 3PT shooters are like 25-30%. Granted, he didn't attempt a ton of 3s so maybe he's like a 25% 3PT shooter in reality. But regardless, a floater game will really help him. That at least makes him a threat to score outside of the restricted area. I don't think he'll ever be a 3 level scorer at UNC, but at the least, he can improve on scoring in the paint. And with his limited height, that means developing a floater game.

As for Trimble/Withers/Washington, etc... To me the reality is we need to upgrade from them. I don't think any of them are starting caliber players on a serious contender. Almost impossible to start Cadeau and Trimble together as of now. And I think you need more scoring punch with the first player off your bench. Maybe one of the freshmen will provide that.

I seriously question where do you see star potential in Withers @What Would Jesus Do? His career arc has shown that he's a starting-caliber player on a good mid-major team.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I seriously question where do you see star potential in Withers @What Would Jesus Do? His career arc has shown that he's a starting-caliber player on a good mid-major team.

I'm holding out hope that his flaws are correctable. Could be wishful thinking.

He has real quickness, a good motor, and seems to have a good attitude. Occasionally his moves take your breath away, but too often he gets ahead of himself and never quite controls the ball well enough to finish what he starts.

I'm hoping the staff can fix him over the summer. If so, he becomes a versatile player who can handle 2 or 3 positions on offense and defense.

The reason I have hope, is because I think he improved over the season. Not enough to be a starter this year, but maybe for next year.

 

[Heelicious]

A general thing I'd like all our guards/wings to have in their bag. The ability play in the paint off 2 feet. Probably less for Cadeau or RJ since they're too small. But anyone like 6'3" to 6'8", develop the footwork and lower body strength/agility to play off 2 feet in the paint. Think Jay Wright's guards at Villanova. Jalen Brunson, Ryan Archidiaccano, Donte DiVicenzo all could do it. Puts a lot of pressure on defensive guards who aren't used to defending in that position.

But that's probably a pipe dream. I don't really recall any UNC guard to have a post up game in recent memory other than maybe McCants?

Cadeau:
Apart from the obvious... Develop a floater game. He's starting from 18% 3PT. Most even bad 3PT shooters are like 25-30%. Granted, he didn't attempt a ton of 3s so maybe he's like a 25% 3PT shooter in reality. But regardless, a floater game will really help him. That at least makes him a threat to score outside of the restricted area. I don't think he'll ever be a 3 level scorer at UNC, but at the least, he can improve on scoring in the paint. And with his limited height, that means developing a floater game.

As for Trimble/Withers/Washington, etc... To me the reality is we need to upgrade from them. I don't think any of them are starting caliber players on a serious contender. Almost impossible to start Cadeau and Trimble together as of now. And I think you need more scoring punch with the first player off your bench. Maybe one of the freshmen will provide that.

I seriously question where do you see star potential in Withers @What Would Jesus Do? His career arc has shown that he's a starting-caliber player on a good mid-major team.

Good post. I think past wing like Danny green, David Noel, maybe even Justin Jackson / cam johnson filled these roles. While yes Justin and cam were more like 3 pt shooters, and midrange jump shooters, and more slashers than post up guys, they had the strength size and hood to post up and finish in the paint especially if they created a mismatch

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I don't really recall any UNC guard to have a post up game in recent memory other than maybe McCants?

Is that the players we've gotten, style of play, or coaching?

I'm thinking of guys like Harrison Barnes and PJ Hairston. Both of those guys absolutely could and did drive to the rim, but they weren't nearly as successful at it as you might expect based on their talent and strength levels. I recall thinking at the time that they tended to begin their drives too far out - allowing the defenders too much time and distance to get in position.

I took that to be a coaching decision - a decision on style of play, spacing and whatnot. But that's just a guess.

 

[NathanFielder]

Is that the players we've gotten, style of play, or coaching?

I'm thinking of guys like Harrison Barnes and PJ Hairston. Both of those guys absolutely could and did drive to the rim, but they weren't nearly as successful at it as you might expect based on their talent and strength levels. I recall thinking at the time that they tended to begin their drives too far out - allowing the defenders too much time and distance to get in position.

I took that to be a coaching decision - a decision on style of play, spacing and whatnot. But that's just a guess.

Guards and SF being able to play with their back to the basket is a skill. In theory, size should help you. But Jalen Brunson is the best 2 foot paint playing guard in the world right now and he’s like 6’1”?

Barnes had no handle. It’s really the one crucial thing that held him back to becoming what he could become. An NBA star. He got away with it at UNC because he had an NBA body day one and was talented enough to score 16+ as a freshman. But he couldn't dribble more than his one or 2 dribble pull-up 2 (which he usually missed, lol).

It didn’t make a lot of sense for Roy’s teams to have that since he had NPOY type big guys here. It’s just a skill I would like all guards to have.

 

[tarwhiz]

Guards and SF being able to play with their back to the basket is a skill. In theory, size should help you. But Jalen Brunson is the best 2 foot paint playing guard in the world right now and he’s like 6’1”?

Barnes had no handle. It’s really the one crucial thing that held him back to becoming what he could become. An NBA star. He got away with it at UNC because he had an NBA body day one and was talented enough to score 16+ as a freshman. But he couldn't dribble more than his one or 2 dribble pull-up 2 (which he usually missed, lol).

It didn’t make a lot of sense for Roy’s teams to have that since he had NPOY type big guys here. It’s just a skill I would like all guards to have.

Good post and comments on Barnes.
We Carolina fans like to glamorize the 2012 team, even though their offensive efficiency was not as good as our other upper echelon teams.
Kendall Marshall was the only plus ball handler on the 2012 team after Strickland went down. When he was lost in the tournament, my heart sank because I knew how much better he made the other 4 starters on that team.

 

[ChapelHeeled]

Guards and SF being able to play with their back to the basket is a skill. In theory, size should help you. But Jalen Brunson is the best 2 foot paint playing guard in the world right now and he’s like 6’1”?

Barnes had no handle. It’s really the one crucial thing that held him back to becoming what he could become. An NBA star. He got away with it at UNC because he had an NBA body day one and was talented enough to score 16+ as a freshman. But he couldn't dribble more than his one or 2 dribble pull-up 2 (which he usually missed, lol).

It didn’t make a lot of sense for Roy’s teams to have that since he had NPOY type big guys here. It’s just a skill I would like all guards to have.

I would much rather have a shooting guard that can shoot it, given the choice. Three points verses two...

 

[ChapelHeeled]

I'm holding out hope that his flaws are correctable. Could be wishful thinking.

He has real quickness, a good motor, and seems to have a good attitude. Occasionally his moves take your breath away, but too often he gets ahead of himself and never quite controls the ball well enough to finish what he starts.

I'm hoping the staff can fix him over the summer. If so, he becomes a versatile player who can handle 2 or 3 positions on offense and defense.

The reason I have hope, is because I think he improved over the season. Not enough to be a starter this year, but maybe for next year.

I'm holding out hope that his flaws are correctable. Could be wishful thinking.

He has real quickness, a good motor, and seems to have a good attitude. Occasionally his moves take your breath away, but too often he gets ahead of himself and never quite controls the ball well enough to finish what he starts.

I'm hoping the staff can fix him over the summer. If so, he becomes a versatile player who can handle 2 or 3 positions on offense and defense.

The reason I have hope, is because I think he improved over the season. Not enough to be a starter this year, but maybe for next year.

So then you believe that he might get better this summer. Therefore, common sense dictates that you would also believe that other players ( Jalen Washington included) can also get better this summer. Glad that you can see the light...

 

[NathanFielder]

I would much rather have a shooting guard that can shoot it, given the choice. Three points verses two...

I do too. I’m saying I want them to have the skill to play off two feet in the paint.

Most of the best slower tempo teams have guards who can do that. Jay Wright’s Nova guards basically all had that skill. And UConn’s guards this year have it too.

 

[gary-7]

Cadeau

Work on alley-oops.

Good thread topic, but sorry if I'm laughing a bit here only because alley-oops, for lack of a better description, take two to tango.

I've watched Eliot live deliver uncanny 3/4 court versions on the run and on the money. In other words, He can MORE than deliver the "alley" --- our problem was not having enough "oop" guys. I mean, let's be real, if you look at our starting front line this season, welp... we're not exactly talking Vince Carter, James Worthy and Tyler Zeller here, IYKWIM. Our two best candidates were bench guys (Withers and Seth).

To your point though, it hasn't been as much a part of our offense as it could be. For example, we don't utilize oops off downhill roll actions nearly as much as I would like, nor as many backdoor baseline versions (Dean really liked the oops off back-screens) especially on baseline OB plays.

Again though, I imagine much of that is owing to the limiltations I mentioned above. With Withers and pehaps Seth coming back, and with a couple of athletic frosh coming in and starting an above-the-rim Big will hopefully change that for the better.

 

[gary-7]

Cadeau:
Apart from the obvious... Develop a floater game.

100%. In HS/AAU he could almost always rely on his athleticism and hops to get to the rim. He still can, but it's obviously way more difficult at this level. As we saw so many times, he can get a floater almost anytime he wants it. A "Cota Floata" would be huge weapon.

 

[Spaceytoyz]

Improvements will come mainly from the weight room eating right and film study and mental health IMO

You can practice the other things and tweak them to a positive but being able to shoot is a skill set that you see early

Of course they can improve that but I saw guys not wanting to take the shot and to me that’s getting your mentality right

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

He can MORE than deliver the "alley" --- our problem was not having enough "oop" guys.

When I started looking for it more, I saw Elliot make several awful up top passes - and very few good ones. You aren't wrong that we need more oop guys to catch them but if there's one part of his passing game that needs the most work, that kind of pass is the one.

I only mentioned this because his passing game is so good that it was like feeling a stone in my shoe to realize that not all of his passing game is equally good.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

To your point though, it hasn't been as much a part of our offense as it could be. For example, we don't utilize oops off downhill roll actions nearly as much as I would like, nor as many backdoor baseline versions (Dean really liked the oops off back-screens) especially on baseline OB plays.

Again though, I imagine much of that is owing to the limiltations I mentioned above. With Withers and pehaps Seth coming back, and with a couple of athletic frosh coming in and starting an above-the-rim Big will hopefully change that for the better.

Yep that's what I was thinking. As you say, Seth and Withers seem like they can be really good alley-oop targets, if we build those kinds of plays into our system. Do we just need to practice them more?

 

[DaveChapelle]

I'm holding out hope that his flaws are correctable. Could be wishful thinking.

He has real quickness, a good motor, and seems to have a good attitude. Occasionally his moves take your breath away, but too often he gets ahead of himself and never quite controls the ball well enough to finish what he starts.

I'm hoping the staff can fix him over the summer. If so, he becomes a versatile player who can handle 2 or 3 positions on offense and defense.

The reason I have hope, is because I think he improved over the season. Not enough to be a starter this year, but maybe for next year.

Withers has been in college 5 years. He is what he is at this point.

 

[al would]

Great topic but it's moot until you actually know who the players that will be here at the start of next season are. I assume you're including the incoming frosh as well. That might be an interesting discussion too providing the incoming frosh actually get to see the court at some point in time.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Withers has been in college 5 years. He is what he is at this point.

Four, actually, and not on a good team until now. But I take your point.

I suppose I shouldn't be too optimistic that staff knows how to fix him - on the theory that if they did, we'd have seen more improvement already. But we did see SOME improvement. And he has a summer to work on what our staff has learned. So I am rather optimistic.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Four, actually, and not on a good team until now. But I take your point.

I suppose I shouldn't be too optimistic that staff knows how to fix him - on the theory that if they did, we'd have seen more improvement already. But we did see SOME improvement. And he has a summer to work on what our staff has learned. So I am rather optimistic.

I have no idea who needs "fixing" but we have seen ample evidence that our staff can coach peeps up and work on established weaknesses. If you saw some improvement, that is all the evidence you should need to know they can do it. A fan should definitely be optimistic since we have always seen improvement in the off season! BUT some just can't stomach giving our coaches even the faintest of praise!

 

[DSouthr]

Gary in an above post said it takes 2 to tango on the oppps question, I disagree, it takes 4. IT takes the passer and a guy to catch it and finish for sure but it also takes a guy setting the back screen, it takes the coach to make it a focus point. And I know, gary will not disagree with that but it just has not been a focus point so far. Back screen, cut from the short corner flush, was a UNC staple that defenders had to be on constant watch for, been MIA for far to long. Cadeau is a great guy to initiate the pass and he was great with it in high school.