OOTB Presidential Poll : September

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

His behavioral problems are a drop in the bucket compared to Hillary's. For every one thing someone can say about Trump, there are 10 about Hillary. Trump's character is closer to Gandhi than Hillary is to Trump.

No, a huge wall in and of itself won't do it. But it significantly helps in that it shows illegals that we are serious and they better not try sneaking in. Fences and guard towers don't keep all inmates from trying to escape jail, but it serves as a deterrent to most. Right now illegals can just walk across the border- something needs to be done, and a wall is much more humane than a mine field. But a minefield would be cheaper and probably be a great deterrent- would that be better for you?

Do you really think employers know when they are hiring illegals? What happens if an illegal presents a social security number? Do you know? I'm being serious. Cause here's what happens- the business pays payroll taxes and the government never tells the business that the SSN is invalid. No one is hiring illegals because it is cheaper- that is simply not true. Think about it- if a business pays an illegal in cash, then the business is paying in after tax dollars because those wages can't be deducted as an expense. It costs about 25-35% more to pay under the table cash as salary than it does to pay it and issue a W2 or 1099.

It's easy to make Mexico pay for the wall- put a tax on all monetary transfers from USA to Mexico. In other words, tax the illegals when they transfer money back home- that will pay for the wall 10 times over and cause major problems for the Mexican government because they depend on this money to serve as welfare payments, which the state does not otherwise provide. If Mexico were faced with a tax on monetary transfers, they would pay for the wall in a heartbeat.

I'll give you that, the tax on transfers of money back might work, but I guess I am not seeing the reason to actually build a huge wall.... fence with armed guards, electric fence, something???? Mine fields, no..... I don't want to kill people but if there is no free medical or jobs that would keep them out, so finding a way to do that.

I know whenever I have taken new jobs, I have to prove I am an American and do all this crap, so I don't know how they get away with it. With our intelligence and systems to check every other thing, we surely can come up with a way to check SSN and keep this from being a problem.

Years ago when my kids were little and I got ZERO child support from the ass (never ever did actually), I went to try and get some sort of welfare thinking THAT would get the Social Services people and courts to actually find his butt and do something BUT at that time I worked in radiology and only made about $9.00 an hour and they said I made too much money, but what was interesting is had I qualified, I would have had to work for them wherever they sent me AND would have to prove I was an American with an ORIGINAL birth cert., SSN (being confirmed) and a state issued DL confirmed. So how do they get away with all of that if they are illegal??? I am scratching my head. They told me they had to check everything before they issued a measly 150.00 a month to me, which they did not do but that would have been what they gave out. I guess I don't understand how they do it. I know how they get free healthcare but the other stuff, I don't get.

I guess taxes is the way to go but I am afraid it will fall back on us yet again. Good ideas though and that is what we need more of, discussions with ideas and ways to get these things implemented. We probably should be more in contact with our state officials. If I can stomach it again, I will try and talk to Trey Gowdy again, but he pissed me off the first time we met soooooo...... smh

 

[Blue2010]

His behavioral problems are a drop in the bucket compared to Hillary's. For every one thing someone can say about Trump, there are 10 about Hillary. Trump's character is closer to Gandhi than Hillary is to Trump.

No, a huge wall in and of itself won't do it. But it significantly helps in that it shows illegals that we are serious and they better not try sneaking in. Fences and guard towers don't keep all inmates from trying to escape jail, but it serves as a deterrent to most. Right now illegals can just walk across the border- something needs to be done, and a wall is much more humane than a mine field. But a minefield would be cheaper and probably be a great deterrent- would that be better for you?

Do you really think employers know when they are hiring illegals? What happens if an illegal presents a social security number? Do you know? I'm being serious. Cause here's what happens- the business pays payroll taxes and the government never tells the business that the SSN is invalid. No one is hiring illegals because it is cheaper- that is simply not true. Think about it- if a business pays an illegal in cash, then the business is paying in after tax dollars because those wages can't be deducted as an expense. It costs about 25-35% more to pay under the table cash as salary than it does to pay it and issue a W2 or 1099.

It's easy to make Mexico pay for the wall- put a tax on all monetary transfers from USA to Mexico. In other words, tax the illegals when they transfer money back home- that will pay for the wall 10 times over and cause major problems for the Mexican government because they depend on this money to serve as welfare payments, which the state does not otherwise provide. If Mexico were faced with a tax on monetary transfers, they would pay for the wall in a heartbeat.

Correct.

I used to work for a company the employed hispanics, and before I go into it - they were all INCREDIBLY nice people. They hung out with us, we drank beer and watched soccer, they made us the best authentic mexican food I've ever tasted...just really nice people on the surface.

They were on payroll, had taxes withheld, received a W2 at year end...the usual. But one day we hired a new person, and they gave us the Social Security card...everything looked valid. Put them into our payroll system and get an error that the SSN was already taken. Verified that the number was entered correctly, and then we asked both employees about this. Then -- Step 1: Deer in the headlights look. Step 2 -- Excuse (one girl even changed her story and said she was here as a student, but could not tell us what school). Step 3 -- They disappeared. We never saw them again.

I guess the consolation here was that they at least were paying taxes, but my point here is that illegals can skirt the system and appear to be completely valid. In this case, we found out they were completely stealing someone else's identity (SSN). You can run SSN verification, but it costs extra and most companies aren't going to want to incur that cost for seasonal labor.

 

[UNC71-00]

@chick_bleeds_carolina_blue Do you really think Trump would do worse than this? Our #1 ally in the Middle East is going to Russia to negotiate with the Palestinians.



How could foreign policy be any worse under Trump?

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

View embedded media

Think about this. Imagine if you asked to see your wife or husband's cell phones and Ipads and he said sure, hold on. Then he goes into the bathroom, destroys all but one with a hammer and then does a hard reset with a new sim card and battery on the only remaining device and hands it to you and says he has nothing to hide.

How does anyone buy this bullshit?

oh I have no doubt about it... she is not stupid, she is just pretending to be stupid. She may forget stuff for real but she is not stupid. She knew she needed to get rid of some evidence, but sadly she should also know that everyone would find out she did that too. She is definitely not qualified.

It is well known that I do not care for either of them but I seriously hope Trump wins, but I think we will see how much the president really does not do and who really does the work behind the scenes. If I believed he could actually do the things that I think are a good idea without resistance from Congress, banks and the industries that will be involved, I would have no problem with him other than his asshole mentality but I am kind of use to that anyway LOL.... I just don't think anyone can go up against what is really going on and the ones really running the show.

Lordy, you've got me involved on here when I need to clean my house and then go to Clemson LOL.....

 

[UNC71-00]

I'll give you that, the tax on transfers of money back might work, but I guess I am not seeing the reason to actually build a huge wall.... fence with armed guards, electric fence, something???? Mine fields, no..... I don't want to kill people but if there is no free medical or jobs that would keep them out, so finding a way to do that.

I know whenever I have taken new jobs, I have to prove I am an American and do all this crap, so I don't know how they get away with it. With our intelligence and systems to check every other thing, we surely can come up with a way to check SSN and keep this from being a problem.

Years ago when my kids were little and I got ZERO child support from the ass (never ever did actually), I went to try and get some sort of welfare thinking THAT would get the Social Services people and courts to actually find his butt and do something BUT at that time I worked in radiology and only made about $9.00 an hour and they said I made too much money, but what was interesting is had I qualified, I would have had to work for them wherever they sent me AND would have to prove I was an American with an ORIGINAL birth cert., SSN (being confirmed) and a state issued DL confirmed. So how do they get away with all of that if they are illegal??? I am scratching my head. They told me they had to check everything before they issued a measly 150.00 a month to me, which they did not do but that would have been what they gave out. I guess I don't understand how they do it. I know how they get free healthcare but the other stuff, I don't get.

I guess taxes is the way to go but I am afraid it will fall back on us yet again. Good ideas though and that is what we need more of, discussions with ideas and ways to get these things implemented. We probably should be more in contact with our state officials. If I can stomach it again, I will try and talk to Trey Gowdy again, but he pissed me off the first time we met soooooo...... smh

Building a wall shows people on the other side of the wall that you are serious about keeping them out. That's it. It's a branding thing. And if you complement it by immediate deportation of illegals, it works.

Good question. I don't know, but I wasn't talking about illegals getting welfare- I was talking about how businesses pay wages. When you apply for a job, you fill out a form (W4?)and write your SSN on it. I would imagine that many businesses are afraid of being accused of discrimination if they ask too many questions, especially of minorities.

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

@chick_bleeds_carolina_blue Do you really think Trump would do worse than this? Our #1 ally in the Middle East is going to Russia to negotiate with the Palestinians.

View embedded media

How could foreign policy be any worse under Trump?

I think he will piss off someone like North Korea's nutcase for one and God only knows who else. I hope I am wrong and you are right on this one though.

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

Building a wall shows people on the other side of the wall that you are serious about keeping them out. That's it. It's a branding thing. And if you complement it by immediate deportation of illegals, it works.

Good question. I don't know, but I wasn't talking about illegals getting welfare- I was talking about how businesses pay wages. When you apply for a job, you fill out a form (W4?)and write your SSN on it. I would imagine that many businesses are afraid of being accused of discrimination if they ask too many questions, especially of minorities.

yeah, that is true.... a fine line when it comes to discrimination so I see your point on that one.

 

[UNC71-00]

I think he will piss off someone like North Korea's nutcase for one and God only knows who else. I hope I am wrong and you are right on this one though.

No, he won't. Because there is nothing in it for him to do so. You don't need to swing your dick when you are president of the free world.

Your bigger concern should be some terrorist setting off a nuke or dirty bomb and Trump retaliating with nukes. But don't you think Hillary is more likely to respond to that situation with nukes or war than Trump would be?

 

[UNC71-00]

 

[prlyles]

No one is hiring illegals because it is cheaper- that is simply not true. Think about it- if a business pays an illegal in cash, then the business is paying in after tax dollars because those wages can't be deducted as an expense. It costs about 25-35% more to pay under the table cash as salary than it does to pay it and issue a W2 or 1099.

Sometimes it can in fact be cheaper to pay under the table. The business can get by without paying min. wages or overtime pay if they are paying under the table. Also remember the business has to pay 1/2 of the employee's SS and medicare tax for the employee plus they have to pay workman's comp and unemployment insurance also. 9 out of 10 times that you see a business padlocked by the IRS it is because the business is paying people under the table and not reporting payroll taxes.

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

No, he won't. Because there is nothing in it for him to do so. You don't need to swing your dick when you are president of the free world.

Your bigger concern should be some terrorist setting off a nuke or dirty bomb and Trump retaliating with nukes. But don't you think Hillary is more likely to respond to that situation with nukes or war than Trump would be?

hmmmmm... Nukes maybe not, but war, yes, she would. I hope I am wrong about Trump, I really do but I only have the way he responds to political peers and such to go by. He has toned it down though over the last few weeks so maybe he has been "trained" to keep a lid on the crazy from now on. lol

 

[UNC71-00]

Sometimes it can in fact be cheaper to pay under the table. The business can get by without paying min. wages or overtime pay if they are paying under the table. Also remember the business has to pay 1/2 of the employee's SS and medicare tax for the employee plus they have to pay workman's comp and unemployment insurance also. 9 out of 10 times that you see a business padlocked by the IRS it is because the business is paying people under the table and not reporting payroll taxes.

No way. 9 out of 10 times it is for not paying the 941 bill on legit employees.

Sure, sometimes it can be cheaper to pay under the table. But most of the time, this is not the case and even if it is, most of the time the risk/reward is not there.

 

[tarheel0910]

If there are people here who have legal children, then the adults MUST become legal or they all have to go until they can do so.

So, you are suggesting that we violate the rights of US citizens? This seems to be the opposite of every philosophy/position that you've talked about.

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

So, you are suggesting that we violate the rights of US citizens? This seems to be the opposite of every philosophy/position that you've talked about.

I didn't say I liked it but I think most of them would become legal then and it might prevent the ones from coming over to give birth if they know they will HAVE to do this if they have a child here or in order for them to be together, they can choose to go back or do what they have to to stay here. Some may opt to leave their kids with legal relatives here. I don't know the answer.... it is an idea.

 

[tarheel0910]

I didn't say I liked it but I think most of them would become legal then and it might prevent the ones from coming over to give birth if they know they will HAVE to do this if they have a child here or in order for them to be together, they can choose to go back or do what they have to to stay here. Some may opt to leave their kids with legal relatives here. I don't know the answer.... it is an idea.

I guess it's an answer, but I'm not sure using a citizen to blackmail a non citizen is a good idea. I'm just surprised that you would violate your beliefs to do something that would, at best, marginally help the problem.

 

[heelmanwilm]

u cannot logistically speaking deport all the illegals. You just cant. Theres like what? 11 Million? So U round em up and hold them in huge prisons (er camps) and start loading buses with em? Can u imagine the cost?

 

[UNC71-00]

u cannot logistically speaking deport all the illegals. You just cant. Theres like what? 11 Million? So U round em up and hold them in huge prisons (er camps) and start loading buses with em? Can u imagine the cost?

No, that's not at all what what you do. Issue a notice that all illegals must return to Mexican soil

1) turn some US post offices and old govt buildings into temporary Mexican embassies for a 1 week period. This fulfills the requirement of returning to native soil.
2) every illegal (other than those wanted for arrest) who comes in will be granted a 6 month visa. In turn, the illegal will fill out an official citizenship form, have picture and fingerprints taken, etc.
3) Begin enforcing other immigration laws on the books.
4) those that don't come in will be shipped home as soon as they are caught from that point forward. those that do come in will be processed for citizenship. Some will make the cut and some won't.

And as far as the cost, what is the cost of letting them stay?

 

[Blue2010]

No, that's not at all what what you do. Issue a notice that all illegals must return to Mexican soil

1) turn some US post offices and old govt buildings into temporary Mexican embassies for a 1 week period. This fulfills the requirement of returning to native soil.
2) every illegal (other than those wanted for arrest) who comes in will be granted a 6 month visa. In turn, the illegal will fill out an official citizenship form, have picture and fingerprints taken, etc.
3) Begin enforcing other immigration laws on the books.
4) those that don't come in will be shipped home as soon as they are caught from that point forward. those that do come in will be processed for citizenship. Some will make the cut and some won't.

And as far as the cost, what is the cost of letting them stay?

Not opposed to this, but remind me to sign up for Stamps.com. No way in hell I'm going to the post office that week. And the staff may just go hang themselves before the door opens.

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

No, that's not at all what what you do. Issue a notice that all illegals must return to Mexican soil

1) turn some US post offices and old govt buildings into temporary Mexican embassies for a 1 week period. This fulfills the requirement of returning to native soil.
2) every illegal (other than those wanted for arrest) who comes in will be granted a 6 month visa. In turn, the illegal will fill out an official citizenship form, have picture and fingerprints taken, etc.
3) Begin enforcing other immigration laws on the books.
4) those that don't come in will be shipped home as soon as they are caught from that point forward. those that do come in will be processed for citizenship. Some will make the cut and some won't.

And as far as the cost, what is the cost of letting them stay?

Why would they stay though if there's nothing here to stay for? Are you saying they can just outsmart our system every time?

I think a deterrent might be more cost effective than paying all kinds of money rounding some of them up, while others will continue to allude the system we have now and get away with it. Spend the money making a nationwide system they cannot manipulate.

I just see rounding them up and putting them on the other side of the fence being as productive as trying to contain a herd of cats. As soon as you get a bunch contained, more will find a way out and right back over. If the reason those cats are coming across is for the Fancy Feast moist cat food instead of the dry food at home, what do you think will happen? Short of literally caging people permanently, they will keep coming back for more.

Yes, a crazy comparison, especially since we are talking about human beings but you get the idea.

 

[UNC71-00]

Not opposed to this, but remind me to sign up for Stamps.com. No way in hell I'm going to the post office that week. And the staff may just go hang themselves before the door opens.

No- just one post office in a county, but one that is not used often. Better yet, an old school or some other unoccupied govt building.

Or use a bunch of schools in July when the kids are out.

These are details though which can easily be worked out

 

[UNC71-00]

Why would they stay though if there's nothing here to stay for? Are you saying they can just outsmart our system every time?

I think a deterrent might be more cost effective than paying all kinds of money rounding some of them up, while others will continue to allude the system we have now and get away with it. Spend the money making a nationwide system they cannot manipulate.

I just see rounding them up and putting them on the other side of the fence being as productive as trying to contain a herd of cats. As soon as you get a bunch contained, more will find a way out and right back over. If the reason those cats are coming across is for the Fancy Feast moist cat food instead of the dry food at home, what do you think will happen? Short of literally caging people permanently, they will keep coming back for more.

Yes, a crazy comparison, especially since we are talking about human beings but you get the idea.

I don't follow

 

[RP12]

I would only consider Johnson but can't really stand he or Weld as I think they're terrible messengers.

I made the decision after McCain to stop voting AGAINST a candidate on only to vote FOR someone. That means Trump and Hillary are both out as authoritarians. I don't think there will be a dimes worth of difference between them in terms of net change to liberty, and that is my highest priority.

 

[UNC71-00]

I would only consider Johnson but can't really stand he or Weld as I think they're terrible messengers.

I made the decision after McCain to stop voting AGAINST a candidate on only to vote FOR someone. That means Trump and Hillary are both out as authoritarians. I don't think there will be a dimes worth of difference between them in terms of net change to liberty, and that is my highest priority.

You don't think there is a dime's worth of difference between Hillary and Trump?

Who would be your ideal candidate then?

 

[RP12]

You don't think there is a dime's worth of difference between Hillary and Trump?

Who would be your ideal candidate then?

I really don't. I know that she would grow and use the state differently then he would but neither has any focus on liberty. He may actually be less likely to start a war than she is and he has all the right enemies but he could certainly whip up sentiment in dangerous directions (nationalism, protectionism, etc).

It's important to note that I don't believe that we'll get improvement through voting. I understand why folks feel differently but I believe ideas can change things and our candidates and government will reflect that eventually due to having no choice. To me a principled message is more important than a candidate winning, or changing the system from the inside once in place. For that reason I consider Ron Paul the greatest statesman of our time and one of only a few people that I believe in.

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

I don't follow

Yeah, it's hard for me to convey the thought process behind this one but basically you can round them up, put them on the other side of then fence/wall but if there is still something on the other side they want, they'll just find another way back. So it is imperative for this to work, and perhaps not have to spend money and man power from law enforcement, to fix things so they don't WANT to come here other than to visit and hopefully most will willingly just go back.

 

[UNC71-00]

Yeah, it's hard for me to convey the thought process behind this one but basically you can round them up, put them on the other side of then fence/wall but if there is still something on the other side they want, they'll just find another way back. So it is imperative for this to work, and perhaps not have to spend money and man power from law enforcement, to fix things so they don't WANT to come here other than to visit and hopefully most will willingly just go back.

I agree with your point that only shipping them back will do little to solve the problem.

Also, This blog poast speaks to a great deal of what we discussed ITT.

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/149983115751/why-trump-doesnt-scare-me

 

[heelmanwilm]

No, that's not at all what what you do. Issue a notice that all illegals must return to Mexican soil

1) turn some US post offices and old govt buildings into temporary Mexican embassies for a 1 week period. This fulfills the requirement of returning to native soil.
2) every illegal (other than those wanted for arrest) who comes in will be granted a 6 month visa. In turn, the illegal will fill out an official citizenship form, have picture and fingerprints taken, etc.
3) Begin enforcing other immigration laws on the books.
4) those that don't come in will be shipped home as soon as they are caught from that point forward. those that do come in will be processed for citizenship. Some will make the cut and some won't.

And as far as the cost, what is the cost of letting them stay?

Intriguing. I like it. Did u read this elsewhere as a legit possibility or is it your idea?

 

[UNC71-00]

Intriguing. I like it. Did u read this elsewhere as a legit possibility or is it your idea?

First saw idea on Scott Adams blog. No idea if it is his or if he picked it up from someone else

 

[DSouthr]

I voted for Trump and will vote for Trump in Nov. I LOVE some of what Gary Johnson endorses, I am a FAIR TAX GUY !

But I live in the real world and in this real world there are only 2 people with any chance at all of being our next president and that Trump or Hillary. You can vote for either of the 3rd parties or not at all but any vote not for Trump is in my opinion a vote for Hillary.

 

[DSouthr]

You don't understand how Trump negotiates- how all successful businessmen negotiate. If you want something, then ask for much more than you actually want. Then, when you give in, the other party feels they are winning even though you are getting what you wanted all along.

Trump will never be owned by special interests. People who have run their own show for years do not kneel down before anyone for money. Hillary on the other hand, has been asking for donations for years and promising the moon in return.

A vote for Johnson or Stein is a vote for idealism, which is great in the classroom. However in the real world, you have 2 options from which to choose. Which one gives the country a better shot- Hillary or Trump?

To bad I can't like this post more than once, would drop a easy hundred likes on it if I could, Nailed it !!!

 

[st8grad93]

BTTT for last day ...

 

[strummingram]

Last day of what?

 

[tarheel0910]

Last day of what?

Last day to vote. The poll is set to close tomorrow.