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OOTB's Political Thread . ..

You're right on O'Reilly - he's gone away mostly because he's very old and traditional and hasn't dialed into new media platforms. Sort of a media dinosaur.

I believe you're wrong on Kelly - she is still quite popular and successful, but via new media platforms and her own podcast. Certainly the typical Fox News boomer audience didn't follow her to her podcast, but she's got plenty of new, younger followers to make up for it.
I'm not sure how you'd define "disappear". Is not being on a cable or broadcast network "disappearing? Yes - I'd bet you won't see Tucker on any cable or broadcast network. Not even OAN or Newsmax or some lesser known network. In that sense he will "disappear" from television. Why would he go to some other network with the same restrictions and lack of freedom he just left?
Will he disappear from being heard and known in the public sphere (via alternative media such as his own podcast, Daily Wire, working with Elon Musk, etc?) NFW. I'd bet any amount of money he is basically well known in a year as he is today, on a level about even with say Joe Rogan.

He will be one of the biggest, best known names in new media. Him making so many friends and so much loyalty across all political and social/cultural groups (left/right, Dem/Rep) ensures that. The only people who don't like him are Establishment lackeys - and even they can't help but watch and follow him.

Look on Twitter. There are already millions of Tucker fans and friends, begging him to not disappear, and vowing to follow him to any media format.
What I mean by disappear is that his influence on politics and the cultural conversation will dramatically drop. It happened to O'Reilly, Beck and it definitely happened to Kelly. All of them had a significant amount of influence and people watching. They have (comparatively) very little now. And I have to laugh a little at the thought of OAN and Newsmax having restrictions.
 
What I mean by disappear is that his influence on politics and the cultural conversation will dramatically drop. It happened to O'Reilly, Beck and it definitely happened to Kelly. All of them had a significant amount of influence and people watching. They have (comparatively) very little now. And I have to laugh a little at the thought of OAN and Newsmax having restrictions.
I don't know, I've never watched OAN or Newsmax. I'd likely watch them if Tucker Carlson did his Tucker Carlson TODAY interviews on there.
There is a big difference between his TC TONIGHT shows, and I disagree with quite a bit of what TC says on that show. UFO stuff, Kennedy killing, etc.

His TC TODAY shows are what I really enjoy. They are just quite interesting life stories, Tucker talks very little, just opens up the hour for interesting people from literally every sort of background to tell their story. I guess the main theme if there is one is they are all pro-American, pro-individual, pro freedom of speech, anti-globalist, anti-establishment in nature.

But some are just cool human interest people like Mike Tyson, Scott Hamilton, founder of Jimmy John's, Brett Favre, Steve Rinnell, Elon Musk, Piers Morgan, etc. I realize / bet none of his detractors have watched more than one of those TC Today shows or they'd have a different opinion on him and the kinds of people he has on and the long interview format.

But back to the point - why would Tucker go back to any network or corp which by definition has more restrictions than if you are on your own podcast or writing on substack, Twitter, etc?
I hear you about Fox News having a loyal audience, but just taking a temperature / pulse, I think a lot of people will be done with Fox News now. Maybe not the boomers. But almost all the younger people who know how to consume new media (ie outside of cable) will drop Fox News (CNN, etc) like a hot rock. Again, 10s or hundreds of thousands have said so in the last two days. Let's look at the ratings for his replacement, and for Fox News evening shows in general over next few months. I predict a steep decline.

I don't think Kelly or Beck are worried about their next meal. Neither is Rogan, Shapiro, etc. You may not consume them via alternative media, but people know enough about them and they are still relevant enough that people know who you are talking about.
TV is dying / nearly dead. Definitely cable, and broadcast too. So are print and on-line newspapers. So will next generations, just stop consuming news? I don't think so. I think TC will be a successful guy like Rogan in a new media outlet - Twitter, podcasts, substack, etc. But I guess we'll see. Let's see who fares better over the next 6 months... regarding influence and relevance....Tucker or Fox News. I'll bet on Tucker.
 
I don't know, I've never watched OAN or Newsmax. I'd likely watch them if Tucker Carlson did his Tucker Carlson TODAY interviews on there.
There is a big difference between his TC TONIGHT shows, and I disagree with quite a bit of what TC says on that show. UFO stuff, Kennedy killing, etc.

His TC TODAY shows are what I really enjoy. They are just quite interesting life stories, Tucker talks very little, just opens up the hour for interesting people from literally every sort of background to tell their story. I guess the main theme if there is one is they are all pro-American, pro-individual, pro freedom of speech, anti-globalist, anti-establishment in nature.

But some are just cool human interest people like Mike Tyson, Scott Hamilton, founder of Jimmy John's, Brett Favre, Steve Rinnell, Elon Musk, Piers Morgan, etc. I realize / bet none of his detractors have watched more than one of those TC Today shows or they'd have a different opinion on him and the kinds of people he has on and the long interview format.

But back to the point - why would Tucker go back to any network or corp which by definition has more restrictions than if you are on your own podcast or writing on substack, Twitter, etc?
I hear you about Fox News having a loyal audience, but just taking a temperature / pulse, I think a lot of people will be done with Fox News now. Maybe not the boomers. But almost all the younger people who know how to consume new media (ie outside of cable) will drop Fox News (CNN, etc) like a hot rock. Again, 10s or hundreds of thousands have said so in the last two days. Let's look at the ratings for his replacement, and for Fox News evening shows in general over next few months. I predict a steep decline.

I don't think Kelly or Beck are worried about their next meal. Neither is Rogan, Shapiro, etc. You may not consume them via alternative media, but people know enough about them and they are still relevant enough that people know who you are talking about.
TV is dying / nearly dead. Definitely cable, and broadcast too. So are print and on-line newspapers. So will next generations, just stop consuming news? I don't think so. I think TC will be a successful guy like Rogan in a new media outlet - Twitter, podcasts, substack, etc. But I guess we'll see. Let's see who fares better over the next 6 months... regarding influence and relevance....Tucker or Fox News. I'll bet on Tucker.
I'll bet on Fox. You'll be able to count on one hand how many politicians and politically connected people Tucker will be talking with over the next six months. All those things you just said were said after O'Reilly left. He probably had more influence than anyone in media and Fox kept humming along. Tucker will still have his loyal fans, but it won't be anywhere near what he had and he certainly won't have politicians picking up the phone for him.
 
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I'll bet on Fox. You'll be able to count on one hand how many politicians and politically connected people Tucker will be talking with over the next six months. All those things you just said were said after O'Reilly left. He probably had more influence than anyone in media and Fox kept humming along. Tucker will still have his loyal fans, but it won't be anywhere near what he had and he certainly won't have politicians picking up the phone for him.
I disagree with what most of what you've said here, but that's fine - we can agree to disagree and we'll seehow it plays out. At least you can debate it intelligently and respectfully so I respect that FWIW. The deep loyalty for Tucker (vs. loyalty to say - Fox or O'Reilly, etc) - including from politicians, business, media leaders in US, worldwide - is understated unless you closely track who he interviews, who he gives a voice to, especially on his TC Today show.
But no big deal. We'll see. It'll be interesting to see "who picks up the phone" for Tucker compared to when some low grade Fox News fill in for Tucker calls them. People like DJT, DeSantis, RFK Jr, Tulsi Gabbard, a few presidential hopefuls people wouldn't know here - that don't have a chance....but also people like Elon Musk, Piers Morgan, Jordan Peterson, and the dozens / hundreds of loyal friends TC's made across political and social spectrum. These people would rather go on with Tucker than say Hannity or some TC replacement, because I think TC will have more reach, even in his new chosen platform. I think a big change in media platform relevance is coming, and yesterday accelerates that.

Do you think these pol / media / business / cultural people are going to speak to the generic low-grade replacement on Fox News instead of Tucker, just because the low-grade guy is on Fox News? I get what you're saying, that people are forever loyal to Fox News. I just don't think that will be true, based on what I've seen and heard the last couple days. But time will tell.
 
Would you like to make a wager on the foregone conclusion part? Trump is the GOP candidate.

RFK Jr. Is running for president, too. It's pretty rare for an incumbent president to be challenged by another member of their party.
I would never make an actual wager on this stuff anymore: not after the donald beat the world's smartest woman and not after Joe was the selection in the D primary process four years ago.

You are correct about it being "pretty rare for an incumbent president to be challenged" in a serious manner as the party would always be behind them. But, and this is a big but, this is not your father's incumbent. We've never had an incumbent this old that was so obviously in this state of decline. It's a legitimate question at this point whether he can make it to the next election. I just think it's more a reflection of the sad state of things and there being no other great candidate to have emerged. Biden even acknowledged it at one point when he said he was a bridge or placeholder for the next president, but who? If Harris had turned out to be viable, this would have played out much differently.

And, in the interest of fairness, the same applies to the R's. The fact that Trump is out there is mind-blowing. I still maintain it's early and all this polling and other anointment of orange being the presumed nominee is premature. I could be horribly wrong, as noted above in the first paragraph, and only time will tell.
 
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Why is this even remotely surprising?
Well, he is brilliant from a marketing standpoint. But, that he is still supported in light of all the history is amazing. Soon, it might become easier to name the jurisdictions that he doesn't have some claim or suit against him. I get that the majority are likely baseless, but he just keeps building the war chest off of it.

He lost against the same guy last time. How does it make sense to run him again? Even if one believes they cheated to win, what has changed to prevent it from happening again? It should be a clue to most R voters that this is what the D's want to happen. It just makes no sense to not back a candidate who has trump like policies, but none of the trump baggage.
 
We've never had an incumbent this old that was so obviously in this state of decline. It's a legitimate question at this point whether he can make it to the next election.
We should simply follow both Joe Biden and Donald Trump -- who's no spring chicken, either -- on the campaign trail (provided they each win their party's nomination). The run up to the election is obviously a grueling day-to-day workout for candidates. If they can survive over 400 days crisscrossing the country, then they are likely in good enough shape to hold office for four years.
 
We should simply follow both Joe Biden and Donald Trump -- who's no spring chicken, either -- on the campaign trail (provided they each win their party's nomination). The run up to the election is obviously a grueling day-to-day workout for candidates. If they can survive over 400 days crisscrossing the country, then they are likely in good enough shape to hold office for four years.
That would be good, plus passing a mental fitness exam to rule out cognitive impairment. This should be mandatory for any candidate for President.
 
Seems to me these news personalities think their shyt doesn’t stink and when they go head to head with mgt over some fuk up (carlson Jan 6, lemon women’s comment) which is prob the latest in ongoing disputes, refuse to back down, and they get fired.
 
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Seems to me these news personalities think their shyt doesn’t stink and when they go head to head with mgt over some fuk up (carlson Jan 6, lemon women’s comment) which is prob the latest in ongoing disputes, refuse to back down, and they get fired.
They're also a dime-a-dozen.
 
Rgardless, the Joe of next term is not the Joe of this past one or any before that . . . . .

At least orange is the exact same narcistic a-hole with no discernable decline. He's the same as he was six years ago. And, more importantly, it is very, very far from a foregone conclusion that he is the nominee.
US pres can't be some all-powerful independently-functioning executive. The job is too big.

They should be a figure-head that is capable of setting a tone thru a good cabinet, a few speeches, making good hires for advisors, then delegating.

In this respect, if Biden is still pres in 2024 I don't think he'll be all that different as a pres despite being more ancient and senile as a person.
 
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We should simply follow both Joe Biden and Donald Trump -- who's no spring chicken, either -- on the campaign trail (provided they each win their party's nomination). The run up to the election is obviously a grueling day-to-day workout for candidates. If they can survive over 400 days crisscrossing the country, then they are likely in good enough shape to hold office for four years.
how grueling will it be to crisscross the basement like Joe did the last time? Watching him (or not seeing him) the last time gave little clue just how dangerously incompetent he would be.
 
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Washington state undertakes the process of curbing this country's out of control gun problem:

Among the trio of bills intended to reduce gun violence, one bans the sale of certain semiautomatic rifles, one imposes a 10-day waiting period on firearms purchases, and one clears the way for lawsuits against gunmakers or sellers in certain cases.
White House, gun control groups praise Washington gov's gun safety laws as 2nd Amendment groups file lawsuits

Isn't this how the fight against the tobacco companies started?
 
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Makes you wonder what type of dirt he has on the employer...

Edit: I don't feel bad for Tucker at all - boarding school and "little ivy" educated, made tons of money for making funny faces and bullshitting.
 
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We should simply follow both Joe Biden and Donald Trump -- who's no spring chicken, either -- on the campaign trail (provided they each win their party's nomination). The run up to the election is obviously a grueling day-to-day workout for candidates. If they can survive over 400 days crisscrossing the country, then they are likely in good enough shape to hold office for four years.
Biden will retreat to the Whitehouse basement.
 
Real life Idiocracy. Is Kamala the dumbest politician ever? Worst speaker ever?

she's an embarrassment to our country but then so is her boss. And she could very possibly be Joe Biden's bulletproof vest again.

It's hilarious to think back to those idiots who railed against Trump as being embarrassing to us and disrespected by the global community. Now we need Trump in order to regain some respect.
 
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US pres can't be some all-powerful independently-functioning executive. The job is too big.

They should be a figure-head that is capable of setting a tone thru a good cabinet, a few speeches, making good hires for advisors, then delegating.

In this respect, if Biden is still pres in 2024 I don't think he'll be all that different as a pres despite being more ancient and senile as a person.
I have had these same thoughts. A single top executive is fairly ludicrous in these complex times. I have wondered about fairly independent executive branches, independent in operation from direct presidential direction but not from his/her influence. But any remedy is filled with potential traps.

"In this respect, if Biden is still pres in 2024 I don't think he'll be all that different as a pres despite being more ancient and senile as a person."

may be a subtle difference, but I would put it like this...

In this respect, if Biden is still pres in 2024 I don't think he'll be any different as a pres except for being even more ancient and senile.
 
Biden will retreat to the Whitehouse basement.
When did they start spelling White House as one word? I'll bet you're one of those brainiacs that writes Tar Heels as one word. Didn't you once tell me you're an educator? God help the children!
 
I'm honestly pretty shocked Biden's rolling it back with Harris. She's not liked by anyone, can't deliver a message in a speech, and has fumbled the few opportunities she's been given in his administration.

I get pandering to the black and women voters is important for him to have a chance at reelection, but you're telling me he can't find a better minority female to put on the ticket, with at least 2 years heads up that the one he has is a clown?

If he went with someone else, he could have at least partially deflected a lot of the criticisms he'll get about how his administration has operated in this term, and dumped it in her lap. Now, he'll need to eat those punches. Unforced error, IMO.
 
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I'm honestly pretty shocked Biden's rolling it back with Harris. She's not liked by anyone, can't deliver a message in a speech, and has fumbled the few opportunities she's been given in his administration.

I get pandering to the black and women voters is important for him to have a chance at reelection, but you're telling me he can't find a better minority female to put on the ticket, with at least 2 years heads up that the one he has is a clown?

If he went with someone else, he could have at least partially deflected a lot of the criticisms he'll get about how his administration has operated in this term, and dumped it in her lap. Now, he'll need to eat those punches. Unforced error, IMO.
Not to mention... he's too old!

 
When did they start spelling White House as one word? I'll bet you're one of those brainiacs that writes Tar Heels as one word. Didn't you once tell me you're an educator? God help the children!
lol, why don't you just stop being such a pretentious prick who makes as many gaffes as anyone here and more than most?
 
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I have had these same thoughts. A single top executive is fairly ludicrous in these complex times. I have wondered about fairly independent executive branches, independent in operation from direct presidential direction but not from his/her influence. But any remedy is filled with potential traps.

"In this respect, if Biden is still pres in 2024 I don't think he'll be all that different as a pres despite being more ancient and senile as a person."

may be a subtle difference, but I would put it like this...

In this respect, if Biden is still pres in 2024 I don't think he'll be any different as a pres except for being even more ancient and senile.
Good points. But its clearly not a single top executive running the show now. I don't think Joe says or does anything that isn't decided or written by a group of other people. I wonder if Joe even has the mental capacity to decide what flavor of ice cream or pudding he will eat on a given day. Sure isn't making decisions on how to run the country.

His mind is gone and it ain't coming back.
 
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lol, why don't you just stop being such a pretentious prick who makes as many gaffes as anyone here and more than most?
Let me guess, you're one of transplant’s disgruntled and unlearned students. Yeah, I would be pissed off, too.
 
Good points. But its clearly not a single top executive running the show now. I don't think Joe says or does anything that isn't decided or written by a group of other people. I wonder if Joe even has the mental capacity to decide what flavor of ice cream or pudding he will eat on a given day. Sure isn't making decisions on how to run the country.

His mind is gone and it ain't coming back.
I don't disagree with a word of this, but what is being done at this point with Joe is not what I had in mind. I'm not talking about a bunch of behind-the-scenes string-pullers for the puppet of a president we have. I'm talking about fairly autonomous sections of the exective branch that have highly visible authority, largely independent of the kind of idiocy Joe is capable of inflicting.
 
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I'm honestly pretty shocked Biden's rolling it back with Harris. She's not liked by anyone, can't deliver a message in a speech, and has fumbled the few opportunities she's been given in his administration.

I get pandering to the black and women voters is important for him to have a chance at reelection, but you're telling me he can't find a better minority female to put on the ticket, with at least 2 years heads up that the one he has is a clown?

If he went with someone else, he could have at least partially deflected a lot of the criticisms he'll get about how his administration has operated in this term, and dumped it in her lap. Now, he'll need to eat those punches. Unforced error, IMO.
1) it's an embarassment to admit you picked a loser as second in command, an admission that could translate to fewer votes.

2) votes is all that matters and unless they rock the boat to the point of capsizing it, the core dem herd will give them theirs. So...don't rock the boat, I think is the strategy
 
I disagree with what most of what you've said here, but that's fine - we can agree to disagree and we'll seehow it plays out. At least you can debate it intelligently and respectfully so I respect that FWIW. The deep loyalty for Tucker (vs. loyalty to say - Fox or O'Reilly, etc) - including from politicians, business, media leaders in US, worldwide - is understated unless you closely track who he interviews, who he gives a voice to, especially on his TC Today show.
But no big deal. We'll see. It'll be interesting to see "who picks up the phone" for Tucker compared to when some low grade Fox News fill in for Tucker calls them. People like DJT, DeSantis, RFK Jr, Tulsi Gabbard, a few presidential hopefuls people wouldn't know here - that don't have a chance....but also people like Elon Musk, Piers Morgan, Jordan Peterson, and the dozens / hundreds of loyal friends TC's made across political and social spectrum. These people would rather go on with Tucker than say Hannity or some TC replacement, because I think TC will have more reach, even in his new chosen platform. I think a big change in media platform relevance is coming, and yesterday accelerates that.

Do you think these pol / media / business / cultural people are going to speak to the generic low-grade replacement on Fox News instead of Tucker, just because the low-grade guy is on Fox News? I get what you're saying, that people are forever loyal to Fox News. I just don't think that will be true, based on what I've seen and heard the last couple days. But time will tell.
What I mean by disappear is that his influence on politics and the cultural conversation will dramatically drop. It happened to O'Reilly, Beck and it definitely happened to Kelly. All of them had a significant amount of influence and people watching. They have (comparatively) very little now. And I have to laugh a little at the thought of OAN and Newsmax having restrictions.
@tarheel0910 looks like you’re right so far. Tucker put a short 2 minute video up on his Twitter site tonight - and it only had 12 million impressions and 4 million views (from his 6+ million followers)… but granted that was in a WHOLE HOUR after he posted it.

You’re right. He’s so dead and irrelevant.

HT: learn new media and what drives loyalty.
 
@tarheel0910 looks like you’re right so far. Tucker put a short 2 minute video up on his Twitter site tonight - and it only had 12 million impressions and 4 million views (from his 6+ million followers)… but granted that was in a WHOLE HOUR after he posted it.

You’re right. He’s so dead and irrelevant.

HT: learn new media and what drives loyalty.
LOL. That's how you're going to judge if he stays relevant? Of course people are going to pay attention to his first statement. Let me know how many listeners/viewers he has at his next stop compared to what he had.
 
LOL. That's how you're going to judge if he stays relevant? Of course people are going to pay attention to his first statement. Let me know how many listeners/viewers he has at his next stop compared to what he had.
I don't really care if you or whoever think he will stay relevant, but the statistics bear out that he will. I think Twitter is here to stay, at least as long as Elon is in charge of it.

Updated stats on Carlson's first Twitter post after departure from the alleged mother ship Fox News:

in 16 hours, 56 MILLION views of the Twitter post, 17 MILLION views of his two minute video...and his Twitter followers have grown from under 6 MILLION to over 6.5 MILLION

I don't know - it seems to me that if you have 6.5 million Twitter followers, that is a pretty big number of people (and think of all the people these 6.5M followers share this info with on Twitter) - people who aren't just around for the first post, they are connected to TC for as long as he's on Twitter (just one source of listening to him).

I thought another interesting stat is that TC had more Democrat viewers than any other show /host he competed with, when he was on. He had like 40% of the Dem viewer share, vs. 10-20% for various CNN/MSNBC, etc shows, hosts.

Interpret it however you like, but these followership stats make me think his relevance and influence across pol / social / cultural spectrum - isn't going anywhere. IDK maybe I'm interpreting stats / followers wrong.
 
I don't really care if you or whoever think he will stay relevant, but the statistics bear out that he will. I think Twitter is here to stay, at least as long as Elon is in charge of it.

Updated stats on Carlson's first Twitter post after departure from the alleged mother ship Fox News:

in 16 hours, 56 MILLION views of the Twitter post, 17 MILLION views of his two minute video...and his Twitter followers have grown from under 6 MILLION to over 6.5 MILLION

I don't know - it seems to me that if you have 6.5 million Twitter followers, that is a pretty big number of people (and think of all the people these 6.5M followers share this info with on Twitter) - people who aren't just around for the first post, they are connected to TC for as long as he's on Twitter (just one source of listening to him).

I thought another interesting stat is that TC had more Democrat viewers than any other show /host he competed with, when he was on. He had like 40% of the Dem viewer share, vs. 10-20% for various CNN/MSNBC, etc shows, hosts.

Interpret it however you like, but these followership stats make me think his relevance and influence across pol / social / cultural spectrum - isn't going anywhere. IDK maybe I'm interpreting stats / followers wrong.
There are no statistics that say he will stay relevant. His first statement a couple days after he gets fired doesn't prove anything. Are you his brother or son? You've defended him with a passion the last few weeks.
 
He's a disciple... that's even worse.
I guess I just don't understand defending someone like Carlson so much. Carlson is just a guy who will lie to you for ratings and put out shit that he doesn't believe. He believes all his viewers are mindless drones. He's a gasbag. Same goes for Don Lemon. The world improved when they were fired.
 
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