OOTB's Political Thread . ..

[strummingram]

Bernie Sanders the criminal that hides behind Marxism while he and his family stole millions in campaign donations. Of course the marxist dumbasses on this board want to lick Bernie's @$$.

What do you think the biggest differences were between Karl Marx and his friend Friedrich Engels? Don't you think it's beneficial to consider "Marxism" from both directions? Would you agree that they both took the social philosophies of Hegel, and the whole idealist movement, too far, or were they not aggressive enough with those influences? Maybe they each had a preference for Fredrich Schelling over Hegel. Do you think German idealism was completely unfounded and unacceptable, or are there some fundamental elements that actually compel the western cultures from the 19th-21st centuries to consider and accept as functional and even preferable- working in the best interest of the working classes? I realize that the evolving nature of Idealism makes any kind of answer or conclusion neither objectively true or false. But, since you know so much about Marxism, I wanted to get your perspective... especially when it comes to the origins and the main pillars of thought. Do you think the Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital should be banned from access? Das Kapital is mostly just an academic explanation or overview on the inner workings of Capitalism... as Marx defined it, of course. But, I digest... share your amazing insight, please!

 

[90sWoollenGymRat]

What do you think the biggest differences were between Karl Marx and his friend Friedrich Engels? Don't you think it's beneficial to consider "Marxism" from both directions? Would you agree that they both took the social philosophies of Hegel, and the whole idealist movement, too far, or were they not aggressive enough with those influences? Maybe they each had a preference for Fredrich Schelling over Hegel. Do you think German idealism was completely unfounded and unacceptable, or are there some fundamental elements that actually compel the western cultures from the 19th-21st centuries to consider and accept as functional and even preferable- working in the best interest of the working classes? I realize that the evolving nature of Idealism makes any kind of answer or conclusion neither objectively true or false. But, since you know so much about Marxism, I wanted to get your perspective... especially when it comes to the origins and the main pillars of thought. Do you think the Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital should be banned from access? Das Kapital is mostly just an academic explanation or overview on the inner workings of Capitalism... as Marx defined it, of course. But, I digest... share your amazing insight, please!

Marx and Engels are washed up morons of their time, oblivious to the fact that the US was going to explode into what it is today via Capitalism. In the late 1800s, the US still had slavery in the south and rich people owning the factories in the north so labor was taken advantage of especially slaves and European immigrants coming off the boat to provide labor.

In the 1900s russia went for communism and it failed, starving and killing millions. Ditto for china decades later. Mao and Stalin killed millions of their own people on purpose to scare the living, and millions on accident with caveman agriculture supply chain problems. Now compare the USSR to the US economy. China was propped up by the west with favored trade status and they use that today to harm us economically. The west propped up the scum in china, not marxism. China relies on us buying their crap, thus why they are freaked out over the tariffs blocking their goods.

Capitalism in a free open elections society with government economic checks and balances is superior to the BS spewed by Marx, Engels, Lenin, Mao, etc. Those scumbags replaced the overlords of rulers of russia and china by annointing themselves lifetime rulers over the masses. Maxism/socialism/communism overlooks or purposely hides human greed in their models. They claim the common good overcomes human greed to take an extra item from the community garden. People will steal and hoard things when they get the chance, the cavemen of the late 1800s were FOS if they did not believe that.

Move along, little boy.

 

[strummingram]

Marx and Engels are washed up morons of their time, oblivious to the fact that the US was going to explode into what it is today via Capitalism. In the late 1800s, the US still had slavery in the south and rich people owning the factories in the north so labor was taken advantage of especially slaves and European immigrants coming off the boat to provide labor.

In the 1900s russia went for communism and it failed, starving and killing millions. Ditto for china decades later. Mao and Stalin killed millions of their own people on purpose to scare the living, and millions on accident with caveman agriculture supply chain problems. Now compare the USSR to the US economy. China was propped up by the west with favored trade status and they use that today to harm us economically. The west propped up the scum in china, not marxism. China relies on us buying their crap, thus why they are freaked out over the tariffs blocking their goods.

Capitalism in a free open elections society with government economic checks and balances is superior to the BS spewed by Marx, Engels, Lenin, Mao, etc. Those scumbags replaced the overlords of rulers of russia and china by annointing themselves lifetime rulers over the masses. Maxism/socialism/communism overlooks or purposely hides human greed in their models. They claim the common good overcomes human greed to take an extra item from the community garden. People will steal and hoard things when they get the chance, the cavemen of the late 1800s were FOS if they did not believe that.

Move along, little boy.

But, neither Russia, nor China actually implemented Communism at all, in the 20th Century. Both of those, just like much of Europe, embraced totalitarianism. Soviet Russia and Red China are not examples of what Marx and Engels created through the influence of 18th and 19th century Idealism. Will humans hoard? Of course they will if circumstances compels it... or, in some cases, rewards it!

You're endorsing Capitalism because it doesn't hide greed?

 

[90sWoollenGymRat]

But, neither Russia, nor China actually implemented Communism at all, in the 20th Century. Both of those, just like much of Europe, embraced totalitarianism. Soviet Russia and Red China are not examples of what Marx and Engels created through the influence of 18th and 19th century Idealism. Will humans hoard? Of course they will if circumstances compels it... or, in some cases, rewards it!

You're endorsing Capitalism because it doesn't hide greed?

They adopted what is called Marxist-Leninism. The USSR failed because the west recognized after WW2 they were a threat, thus isolated the scum until they ran out of money. The west stupidly thought it could lure china to the west with democracy with economic investments, but instead made the CCP stronger.

Idiot, greed exists in every model that is why I said the USG is there with economic checks and balances. You are a psycho to live in the US and spew BS about Marx was some smart man. He is in hell right now and you will meet him there someday.

 

[bluetoe]

VDH sums up the tariff BS...

No more status quo

Hanson should be required listening for all voters.

Let it be so.

But, neither Russia, nor China actually implemented Communism at all, in the 20th Century. Both of those, just like much of Europe, embraced totalitarianism. Soviet Russia and Red China are not examples of what Marx and Engels created through the influence of 18th and 19th century Idealism. Will humans hoard? Of course they will if circumstances compels it... or, in some cases, rewards it!

You're endorsing Capitalism because it doesn't hide greed?

What is being hidden isn't greed per se but human nature and the greed inherent; and nature, which humans and all other living things are part of and which have all evolved by way of competition.

Greed is what the other guy is 'guilty' of, as if it even makes sense to assign guilt to simply being human. We are what we are and no system is going to change what we are. We all are 'greedy' since we are all 'other guys'. But the fact is, greed is actually, in and of itself, a good thing...a thing to be embraced and exploited.

Competition is intrinsic to life itself.

Greed and competition are inextricable linked, and any scheme that fails to build on or at least acknowledge this link is just an authoritarian traffic cop forcing us down a dead end street. On the other hand, a scheme built on this link has the best chance of successfully improving the lives of people in general.. That would be Capitalism.

A classless society is wishful thinking. Social classes are part of the human landscape. What is needed isn't forcing the square peg of human nature into the round hole of idealism, but rather a system structured to allow the inevitable classes to bleed into each other, such that the lowest of the low might end up at the very top....and vice versa. That would be Capitalism, as practiced in a suitable and well-managed framework.

Much of our problem is that we are subjected to wannabe marxists who want to futz around with what they have little understanding and half-baked notions of in order to accomplish an unattainable end game. We end up with opposing mindsets directing a bastardized system that falls short of achieving a best result for most..

Pick one or the other. And don't choose marxism.

 

[strummingram]

They adopted what is called Marxist-Leninism. The USSR failed because the west recognized after WW2 they were a threat, thus isolated the scum until they ran out of money. The west stupidly thought it could lure china to the west with democracy with economic investments, but instead made the CCP stronger.

Idiot, greed exists in every model that is why I said the USG is there with economic checks and balances. You are a psycho to live in the US and spew BS about Marx was some smart man. He is in hell right now and you will meet him there someday.

Spew BS about Marx? I never said Marx was smart. I never remotely endorsed anything about Marx, or even implied I agreed with Karl Marx, or Marxism. I just wanted to see if you knew any of nuance or difference. And, as expected... you don't. They're just another subhuman "them" that "we" are supposed to be afraid of and hate.

Marx is in hell? I dunno... Jesus of Nazareth was pretty liberal, not to mention a Socialist. Assuming the God of Abraham has created this eternal subterranean furnace to punish humans that don't comply with the human belief systems.

 

[strummingram]

What is being hidden isn't greed per se but human nature and the greed inherent; and nature, which humans and all other living things are part of and which have all evolved by way of competition.

Greed is what the other guy is 'guilty' of, as if it even makes sense to assign guilt to simply being human. We are what we are and no system is going to change what we are. We all are 'greedy' since we are all 'other guys'. But the fact is, greed is actually, in and of itself, a good thing...a thing to be embraced and exploited.

Competition is intrinsic to life itself.

Greed and competition are inextricable linked, and any scheme that fails to build on or at least acknowledge this link is just an authoritarian traffic cop forcing us down a dead end street. On the other hand, a scheme built on this link has the best chance of successfully improving the lives of people in general.. That would be Capitalism.

A classless society is wishful thinking. Social classes are part of the human landscape. What is needed isn't forcing the square peg of human nature into the round hole of idealism, but rather a system structured to allow the inevitable classes to bleed into each other, such that the lowest of the low might end up at the very top....and vice versa. That would be Capitalism, as practiced in a suitable and well-managed framework.

Much of our problem is that we are subjected to wannabe marxists who want to futz around with what they have little understanding and half-baked notions of in order to accomplish an unattainable end game. We end up with opposing mindsets directing a bastardized system that falls short of achieving a best result for most..

Pick one or the other. And don't choose marxism.

I agree with all of that. Although, I do think we, and our systems, are always changing.

However, Marxism is not present in the United States. This country is a giant consumption/cash register. Marxism is like Dracula and the United States is the Sun made of Garlic and shitting crosses. There is some socialism in America. But, it's not a danger or a threat. America is still all about making as much money as possible.

 

[bluetoe]

I agree with all of that. Although, I do think we, and our systems, are always changing.

However, Marxism is not present in the United States. This country is a giant consumption/cash register. Marxism is like Dracula and the United States is the Sun made of Garlic and shitting crosses. There is some socialism in America. But, it's not a danger or a threat. America is still all about making as much money as possible.

oh shit, I better revisit what I wrote.

Just kidding of course but you can't agree with it all and then disagree with some of it. Well, you can but no one else can.

Whether socialism is a danger or threat is highly subjective and up for separate debate. What I said was that it comprises part of a bastardized system that fails to maximize the benefits of either component. In other words, IMO there are elements of socialism (not Socialism) in play that are counterproductive to our goals of betterment for all.

 

[bluetoe]

oh shit, I better revisit what I wrote.

Just kidding of course but you can't agree with it all and then disagree with some of it. Well, you can but no one else can.

Whether socialism is a danger or threat is highly subjective and up for separate debate. What I said was that it comprises part of a bastardized system that fails to maximize the benefits of either component. In other words, IMO there are elements of socialism (not Socialism) in play that are counterproductive to our goals of betterment for all.

this is why I love Thomas Sowell. Socialistics here need to watch this all the way through. And @strummingram this is why I contend that socialism IS a problem here, because doltish leftist politicians like Bernie Sanders and shampoo girl keep appealing to the simple-minded with populist words in order to push their agendas. They might not score direct hits very often but they constantly nudge our collective thinking to the notion that corporations are evil and bad for our well-being. It isn't corporations that are bad, it's what WE do regarding corporations that is at fault; but even then corps. aren't evil entities bent on somehow undoing our way of life by keeping people gainfully employed and enjoying a decent standard of living...

A notion that makes me wonder if the left has a single working brain cell is the notion that capitalism...capital... inequitably exploits the worker. Well of course it exploits labor, JUST AS LABOR EXPLOITS THE CAPTAL in return.. It's a two way street, even if there are those who choose to see only one way.

 

[90sWoollenGymRat]

Spew BS about Marx? I never said Marx was smart. I never remotely endorsed anything about Marx, or even implied I agreed with Karl Marx, or Marxism. I just wanted to see if you knew any of nuance or difference. And, as expected... you don't. They're just another subhuman "them" that "we" are supposed to be afraid of and hate.

Marx is in hell? I dunno... Jesus of Nazareth was pretty liberal, not to mention a Socialist. Assuming the God of Abraham has created this eternal subterranean furnace to punish humans that don't comply with the human belief systems.

Socialism is the God of heathens, Jesus was no socialist. There is no God in socialist systems because the government is the god. Marx, Mao, Lenin, Stalin, etc had nothing to do with Jesus, because they were satan possessed men.

 

[90sWoollenGymRat]

this is why I love Thomas Sowell. Socialistics here need to watch this all the way through. And @strummingram this is why I contend that socialism IS a problem here, because doltish leftist politicians like Bernie Sanders and shampoo girl keep appealing to the simple-minded with populist words in order to push their agendas. They might not score direct hits very often but they constantly nudge our collective thinking to the notion that corporations are evil and bad for our well-being. It isn't corporations that are bad, it's what WE do regarding corporations that is at fault; but even then corps. aren't evil entities bent on somehow undoing our way of life by keeping people gainfully employed and enjoying a decent standard of living...

A notion that makes me wonder if the left has a single working brain cell is the notion that capitalism...capital... inequitably exploits the worker. Well of course it exploits labor, JUST AS LABOR EXPLOITS THE CAPTAL in return.. It's a two way street, even if there are those who choose to see only one way.

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Socialism/Marxism/Communism appeals to the low IQ lazy trash in society. Those morons that failed in life and want others to carry them by bringing everyone else down to their level. If we are equally screwed then they are happy. This is why left wing trash in this country want equal outcomes for everything...sports outcomes, school grades, income, etc.

 

[strummingram]

Socialism is the God of heathens, Jesus was no socialist. There is no God in socialist systems because the government is the god. Marx, Mao, Lenin, Stalin, etc had nothing to do with Jesus, because they were satan possessed men.

Satan possessed! Oh, NO!

 

[bluetoe]

Socialism/Marxism/Communism appeals to the low IQ lazy trash in society. Those morons that failed in life and want others to carry them by bringing everyone else down to their level. If we are equally screwed then they are happy. This is why left wing trash in this country want equal outcomes for everything...sports outcomes, school grades, income, etc.

the way I see it is that behind socialistic thinking is a childish conception of fairness; that life can be made 'fair' in that no one gets ahead of or has an advantage over anyone else....if we just want that to happen....and that 'daddy' government is the authority that can make it happen and that should be so tasked.

They see those of us with a more mature, reasoned, and realistic concept of fairness as the evil ones for encouraging the more ambitious and/or naturally advantaged to excel relative to other people. They don't see that as fair, and they see the attitude as uncaring.

Fairness to us is making sure that there is a means available for anyone willing and able to take advantage of it to better themselves IF THEY CAN, and to see that no one is GIVEN by daddy government an advantage over others nor should limits be placed by government on those who are succeeding. Government should neither give anyone a leg up nor shut the door on anyone. In spite of what the socialistics believe, we generally want the less advantaged to succeed just as much as they do, as long as they strive to do so.

We both want a level playing field, it's just a matter of what a level playing field means...equality of opportunity or equality of outcome. And of course the subject of 'opportunity' is a matter of separate debate.

A contrived equality of outcome may seem fair to a child, but it stifles the process by which humanity and life itself is enhanced.

 

[90sWoollenGymRat]

Does your city have people (likely illegals) selling crap at stoplights?

It is usually flowers and other trinkets. In my city it is likely TdA or the Mexican cartels putting their slaves to work to pay off their debt to get here or free their female relative from prostitution.

Thanks to biden, he turned many US cities into Tijuana lite.