OOTB's Political Thread . ..

[blazers]

Rightly or wrongly, millions of Trump voters feel that the election was rigged and fraudulent. Without election integrity we don’t have a functional democracy.

If Biden truly wants the country to come together, he would put put forward some kind of bipartisan commission on elections to do a thorough and exhaustive review of the 2020 Presidential Election. Where it can be proven within a reasonable degree of certainty that the election reflected the will of the people.

Like the one Trump created then disbanded?

"Trump created the commission in May 2017 after he continued to insist that as many as 5 million votes were cast illegally in the November 2016 presidential election where he bested Democratic rival Hillary Clinton. But there has been no evidence to back up that claim, and the president's assertions have been dismissed by election officials and experts."

Report: Trump commission did not find widespread voter fraud

PORTLAND, Maine (AP) — The now-disbanded voting integrity commission launched by the Trump administration uncovered no evidence to support claims of widespread voter fraud, according to an analysis of administration documents released Friday...

apnews.com

But you are right, perception is reality and people have been brainwashed into thinking mass fraud happened despite zero evidence, going 1-62 in court (excluding appeals), etc.

Something needs to be done to prevent misinfo from misleading gullible people or something needs to be done to restore trust.

 

[tarheel0910]

The first video I saw yesterday left me feeling pretty badly for her. Looks like it was a surprise shot. New video shows her trying to jump through the window of a barricaded door into a hallway of secret service members with their guns drawn. Rioters were told to stop or they would be shot. She goes through the window and the SS agent calmly steps forward and buries one, then retreats. They were apparently protecting a high value asset Either senator or Pence.

Spoiler: NSFW

Sucks that people had to die, but it's hard for me to feel sorry for her. She voluntarily put herself in the path of a bullet and ignored the guy with a gun.

 

[Grayhead]

Worse for who? Be specific, man.

I'm still waiting for "lib ideals." What exactly are you talking about?

Ive been specific. You digging for some thing to attack on

 

[tarheel0910]

I will say as far as the election goes, I find it odd that there isn't a uniform set of rules for national elections. It would help going forward if the states could somehow come together and have the same process and standards.

 

[strummingram]

Rightly or wrongly, millions of Trump voters feel that the election was rigged and fraudulent. Without election integrity we don’t have a functional democracy.
What happened at the capitol yesterday was a response to this frustration. By the way, I don’t condone violence unless as a last resort against tyranny.
If Biden truly wants the country to come together, he would put put forward some kind of bipartisan commission on elections to do a thorough and exhaustive review of the 2020 Presidential Election. Where it can be proven within a reasonable degree of certainty that the election reflected the will of the people. It’s not enough to say it was “free and fair” let’s move on.
Too much rests on this basic assumption of free and fair elections. The problem is not going away. I believe Trump voters, just ordinary people from all walks of life, feel they are losing their freedom and their country. The one that brave men and women have fought and died to protect.

What would make YOU believe it was free and fair? You have seen all of the attempts at filing court cases where the plaintiff had little, to no evidence or proof. Saying that "No president has ever lost Ohio and still won the presidency" isn't proof of fraud. That's just a coincidence. And, it's not even a coincidence anymore.

Do you think the people who sacked the Capitol Building, and the people who wished they were there with them and are empowered by what they did, will EVER be convinced by ANYTHING that "the government" provides? The answer is "ABSOLUTELY NOT!"


You said : " I believe Trump voters, just ordinary people from all walks of life, feel they are losing their freedom and their country." I totally agree with you. But, they also allowed themselves to be conned by a famous, lifelong conman who is still conning them. Once a person attaches their identity to something like that, there's no objective truth. That's why it's called a cult.

 

[Grayhead]

Raleigh's court was vandalized, the REI was looted, random stores downtown had windows busted or looted. Lots of damage. It's the 41st largest city in the US with a huge black population. I don't see how this type of thing is synonymous with Portland or Minneapolis or the US Capitol. Portland is f'd up (and it isn't just BLM), Minneapolis was crazy for a week, but this "national" rioting and "national" burning is a fabrication of FoxNews.

I agree that there would have been insane marches and riots if somehow the election had been overturned.
"Those people" in their hearts feel the election has been stolen. If I felt it was stolen from me i'd probably be driving up there instead of UNC71.

But I don't agree that this would've happened if Georgia, PA and Mich (for example) happened to be red. Perhaps there would be protests about popular vote losing again, but not storming of the Capitol.

You cant ignore portland and other places. The atmosphere in those areas in conducive to that movement. Dont minimize it. Dont excuse it. Change the verbage. That train of though is part of why we have incidents like we did

 

[strummingram]

I will say as far as the election goes, I find it odd that there isn't a uniform set of rules for national elections. It would help going forward if the states could somehow come together and have the same process and standards.

Like, maybe, everyone votes and whoever gets the most votes wins? Like, the way states elect their governors, and senators, and congressmen, and mayors, and city councilmen/women?

One person- one vote. It's really easy. The president is like the Chief Governor! If they're going to keep the Electoral College, then just do away with the popular vote entirely. Whoever wins is president, whoever gets the second most is vice president. They have totally bastardized and emasculated the Electoral College anyway.

 

[strummingram]

Ive been specific. You digging for some thing to attack on

I tried to offer a chance for specifics. I got a watered-down defense of Donald Trump, the man. How he "bucked the system."

What are these "lib ideals" that you're so fervently opposed to? I'm not trying to attack you, I'm hoping I'll agree with at least some of them!

 

[tarheel0910]

Like, maybe, everyone votes and whoever gets the most votes wins? Like, the way states elect their governors, and senators, and congressmen, and mayors, and city councilmen/women?

One person- one vote. It's really easy. The president is like the Chief Governor! If they're going to keep the Electoral College, then just do away with the popular vote entirely. Whoever wins is president, whoever gets the second most is vice president. They have totally bastardized and emasculated the Electoral College anyway.

No, I'm talking about process and standards. Everyone already has one vote, one person. Different states have different standards on when to vote early, where to vote, how to vote, when to count, etc. The biggest issues before the courts were procedural, not fraud. I don't think it would be a problem to get everyone on the same page going forward. It would prevent some of the craziness.

 

[ticket2ride04]

She died later, in the hospital, correct?

Officially.

She was dead pretty much right away

 

[heelmanwilm]

No, I'm talking about process and standards. Everyone already has one vote, one person. Different states have different standards on when to vote early, where to vote, how to vote, when to count, etc. The biggest issues before the courts were procedural, not fraud. I don't think it would be a problem to get everyone on the same page going forward. It would prevent some of the craziness.

yes esp with mail in voting. Not to say different = fraud but obviously we need to dumb down the process and make it uniform so certain elements can grasp the nuances without assuming shenanigans.

 

[dadika13]

The first video I saw yesterday left me feeling pretty badly for her. Looks like it was a surprise shot. New video shows her trying to jump through the window of a barricaded door into a hallway of secret service members with their guns drawn. Rioters were told to stop or they would be shot. She goes through the window and the SS agent calmly steps forward and buries one, then retreats. They were apparently protecting a high value asset Either senator or Pence.

Spoiler: NSFW

Word on the Twitterverse is that it was Pence in the area past those doors.

 

[tarheel0910]

Word on the Twitterverse is that it was Pence in the area past those doors.

I read where Pence's family was in the building as well. So maybe listen to the guy with a gun next time.

 

[blazers]

You cant ignore portland and other places. The atmosphere in those areas in conducive to that movement. Dont minimize it. Dont excuse it. Change the verbage. That train of though is part of why we have incidents like we did

It seems like you missed my point or you are ignoring the fact that some of the extremely nasty rioting & protests over George Floyd's murder (and the other one or two) were isolated.

I'm not minimizing Portland or MN, i'm comparing them to something really bad like the Capitol attack, and saying those are extremes.

My point is that rightwing media paints a picture of the entire US in ashes, jillions of small businesses filing insurance claims, and that just isn't accurate.

 

[blazers]

I will say as far as the election goes, I find it odd that there isn't a uniform set of rules for national elections. It would help going forward if the states could somehow come together and have the same process and standards.

States rights!



States rights is also one reason we don't have a national ID which would help if we wanted to have universal id'ing as part of voting.

Crazy though, several states are 90+ % mail-in for decades, while Wiscy reps are still griping over whether an airborne pandemic is reason for people to have ability to mail-in.

 

[tarheel0910]

It seems like you missed my point or you are ignoring the fact that some of the extremely nasty rioting & protests over George Floyd's murder (and the other one or two) were isolated.

I'm not minimizing Portland or MN, i'm comparing them to something really bad like the Capitol attack, and saying those are extremes.

My point is that rightwing media paints a picture of the entire US in ashes, jillions of small businesses filing insurance claims, and that just isn't accurate.

All of the media paints the US in ashes, either real or metaphorically. It gets views and clicks. That has become their main goal.

 

[blazers]

 

[tarheel0910]

States rights!



States rights is also one reason we don't have a national ID which would help if we wanted to have universal id'ing as part of voting.

Right, that's why the states would need to come together voluntarily and do something that would help the country. It wouldn't really be that hard to do. It would probably only take a week or two. For some reason politicians are all to happy to listen to the fringes who wouldn't like it, which normally means nothing gets done. Even if it would be helpful.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Trump's idiotic Twitter rants are alienating too many right-wing people in states that are getting purple-ish. If he forms a 3rd party with any relevance for 2024 all he'll do is divide conservatives even greater and Dems will have an 8 year completely blue government. And then we'll turn into Denmark. Pretty shitty if you ask me.

Shitty, yes. But the sooner we turn into Denmark, the sooner the house of cards collapses, and we can get back to decent policy decisions.

And if the GOP is in awful shape then the Dems can get more radical without fear that they are going to lose elections over it.

I don't know about that. The Dems were pretty splintered and looking for direction in 2016, the GOP got more radical, and it ended up costing them a lot in 2020. I see the same happening again. The GOP is splintered, the Dems will lean hard left to appease their noisy deluded fringe, and as a result they'll have a pretty rough 2024.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Imagine if ANTIFA did this. There would be a lot of dead protestors

Good. As there should have been this time as well.

Do you honestly think that target and walgreens is all they touched? As for the shooting, they are a result of the same issue. Unchecked violence and pillaging. If you come out and condemn it all with the same vigor, i will get behind you. But trump followers, deranged or otherwise have not followed that pattern for the most part, up till yesterday. I am fairly certain that BLM would have marched had the election went any other way. It doesnt take much for them to march anyway. If it had been overturned, it would have been ugly. People are leaving the cities for a reason. People stay away from washington for a reason as well.

Again, I do not condone what happened. I am not surprised that it did happen

Yes, anyone who thinks we wouldn't have seen similar if the election had gone the other way has their head in the sand. It's the state of the country right now. If you don't get what you want.... riot.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Biden is definitely more moderate, but is he strong enough to stand up to the left wing for the year he's president?

Spoiler

No.

 

[tarheel0910]

Shitty, yes. But the sooner we turn into Denmark, the sooner the house of cards collapses, and we can get back to decent policy decisions.

Will it really collapse though? People rarely want to give back what they have. Doesn't matter what side they are on. Remember how everyone hated obamacare until they tried to take it away? No one is going to be returning those stimulus payments or pass on getting their loans forgiven.

 

[blazers]

Shitty, yes. But the sooner we turn into Denmark, the sooner the house of cards collapses, and we can get back to decent policy decisions.

I still don't understand why your or dadika call out Demark specifically or if this is just an <insert any socialist country> comment.

 

[tarheel0910]

I still don't understand why your or dadika call out Demark specifically or if this is just an <insert any socialist country> comment.

Probably because of the women.

 

[ticket2ride04]

Pelosi just announced impeachment will happen if 25th isn’t invoked.

 

[tarheel0910]

Pelosi just announced impeachment will happen if 25th isn’t invoked.

Seriously doubt she has enough votes in the senate to remove him. Doesn't make much sense to do it at this point though. Definitely going to need to reinforce security at the capitol if it happens. Hell, might need to reinforce all of d.c.

 

[ticket2ride04]

Seriously doubt she has enough votes in the senate to remove him. Doesn't make much sense to do it at this point though. Definitely going to need to reinforce security at the capitol if it happens. He'll, might need to reinforce all of d.c.

It’s a political move on her part. She’s ruthless. Republicans would have to go on record as ‘standing‘ with Trump after yesterday. They aren’t really but it looks bad.

From a practicality standpoint, having Pence oversee the transition makes sense. Trump is going to do all he can to make it difficult.

 

[blazers]

Probably because of the women.

I've got a NSWF translation of what i'm guessing that quote says

 

[chickenhunter]

What should be done immediately, put the country on notice now that in Nov 2024, all voters will need an ID and no mail in votes. Plenty of time to get those issues taken care of.

 

[ticket2ride04]

What should be done immediately, put the country on notice now that in Nov 2024, all voters will need an ID and no mail in votes. Plenty of time to get those issues taken care of.

Lol. MIV ain’t goin away

 

[tarheel0910]

It’s a political move on her part. She’s ruthless. Republicans would have to go on record as ‘standing‘ with Trump after yesterday. They aren’t really but it looks bad.

From a practicality standpoint, having Pence oversee the transition makes sense. Trump is going to do all he can to make it difficult.

Well, she needs to start taking steps towards impeachment. I think cabinet members will be resigning so they don't have to make a decision on the 25th.

 

[tarheel0910]

I've got a NSWF translation of what i'm guessing that quote says

It's just a picture of a nun helping the sick and elderly. You can trust me.

 

[prlyles]

I can

Side note - if I had $1 for ever time one of you idiots called it the Capital, I'd be a rich man. I think even our self-proclaimed history major made this gaffe yesterday. tsk, tsk.

How does that effect you??

 

[blazers]

It’s a political move on her part. She’s ruthless. Republicans would have to go on record as ‘standing‘ with Trump after yesterday. They aren’t really but it looks bad.

From a practicality standpoint, having Pence oversee the transition makes sense. Trump is going to do all he can to make it difficult.

Let more riots occur on federal grounds, this time arrest more so the felons can't vote in the future.

People are on here saying the assault/riot was "coming" because of what happened at BLM rallies.

First, Biden/Kamala and many other denounced the violence and other problems at those rallies. FoxNews & your facebook page doesn't want to admit that, but they did.

Second, those rallies were in response to actual crimes and injustices (Breonna Taylor). The dude sitting on GeorgeFloyd's throat is awaiting trial for second-degree Murder. The dudes who chased and killed the jogger (went public over summer) are awaiting trial for murder. Meanwhile yesterday was in response to what? Fake victimhood (zero evidence of fraud

 

[bluetoe]

Like, maybe, everyone votes and whoever gets the most votes wins? Like, the way states elect their governors, and senators, and congressmen, and mayors, and city councilmen/women?

One person- one vote. It's really easy. The president is like the Chief Governor! If they're going to keep the Electoral College, then just do away with the popular vote entirely. Whoever wins is president, whoever gets the second most is vice president. They have totally bastardized and emasculated the Electoral College anyway.

" If they're going to keep the Electoral College, then just do away with the popular vote entirely. "

 

[blazers]

What should be done immediately, put the country on notice now that in Nov 2024, all voters will need an ID and no mail in votes. Plenty of time to get those issues taken care of.

Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah, and Washington are almost 100% mail-in, and several have been that way for many years. AZ, Fl and many other states allow mail-in for any reason, for many years.

It's been around since the civil war.

I'm all for an ID as long as the Fed's pay for it and make it free and not burdensome to get.

ETA: making someone show up in person isn't going to change who they vote for. My folks did mail-in, but if forced to go in-person it wouldn't change their vote.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

ETA: making someone show up in person isn't going to change who they vote for. My folks did mail-in, but if forced to go in-person it wouldn't change their vote.

I don't think anyone thinks that it would. I believe the point is that an uninformed voter is less likely to make the effort to go to the polls. If they can simply check a box while sitting on their couch during normal working hours watching Keeping Up With The Kardashians reruns, they'll do that. It's the debate of what is better, more votes, or a higher percentage of educated (on the issues and candidates) votes.

 

[Grayhead]

I will say as far as the election goes, I find it odd that there isn't a uniform set of rules for national elections. It would help going forward if the states could somehow come together and have the same process and standards.

The states are divided. Division is ending this country. Electorial changes at this point is dangerous. The process was changed to allow massive mail in ballots. Spamming homes with ballots. Thats why millions look at this election as fraudulent. It has never happened like that in our lifetime. I dont think the allowances of doing that was properly handled. When they did that, it opened the door for conspiracy to come to life.

Like, maybe, everyone votes and whoever gets the most votes wins? Like, the way states elect their governors, and senators, and congressmen, and mayors, and city councilmen/women?

One person- one vote. It's really easy. The president is like the Chief Governor! If they're going to keep the Electoral College, then just do away with the popular vote entirely. Whoever wins is president, whoever gets the second most is vice president. They have totally bastardized and emasculated the Electoral College anyway.

Popular vote means nothing with electorial votes. The electorial votes do mean something to the balance of power. Adding more or changing is only favorable to 1 party

 

[Grayhead]

I tried to offer a chance for specifics. I got a watered-down defense of Donald Trump, the man. How he "bucked the system."

What are these "lib ideals" that you're so fervently opposed to? I'm not trying to attack you, I'm hoping I'll agree with at least some of them!

You wont. Fishing for a debate. Ive listed my stance well before this discussion.

 

[strummingram]

You wont. Fishing for a debate. Ive listed my stance well before this discussion.

I offered