OOTB's Political Thread . ..
- Thread starter BillyL
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Another Dim snowflake. Doesn’t have the balls to stick around and take his medicine after being one of, if not the biggest trasher of all things relating to the Conservative movement and Trump. That doesn’t surprise me one bit. It appears you’re not the only Squad member to take his ball and go home. Good riddance. Don’t let the door hit you in the face on the way out!
can you tell us more about your Springer connection? Sounds interesting. I never cared for that kind of base entertainment myself, but I would have considered it welcome relief from the lowbrow performance of our so-called leadership that we've dealt with since Biden took office.
That being said, your leaving, while disappointing, is at least true to your character. We who you attempt to demean as a parting shot had the cojones to stay and share our dissent with you for the last several years. You put up the front of having real backbone, shored up by your party being at the helm. Now, what we could see all along, becomes completely evident...you have no backbone at all. No cojones. You could dish it out, but you don't have the gumption to stay around and take it. In a word, you are a coward. What a surprise.
Well even so, wishing you the best and hoping you'll enjoy the upcoming betterment we will all experience. I personally wish you fond memories of the beatdowns I gifted you with. And of course, we look forward to your return should Trump stumble in any way.
Ciao.
THIS is the perfect encapsulation of the problem with the type of individual the D party has cultivated and the media has sold their messaging about.
Noir: I lost. I lost bigly. Now I don't get my way and everything I was told and believe/believed isn't reflected by the rest of the country despite the constant content being fed to us. Guess I'll just take my ball and go home. You'll find me in my safe space, sobbing and muttering Jerry, Donald, Jerry, Donald . . . .
I'm so glad he posted this as it shows his true colors and true agenda. So much for any belief in the democratic system. So much for any belief in being unified and actually wanting our country to be a place where all can prosper. So much for anything he claimed to be about the overall good - unless, of course, KH won. F'ing hypocrite. People like Blaze, Strum, and Lyles are surely not happy about this, but they're also not running away looking for a big hug and a hot coco either. Try stepping away for a few days and observing that the sun still comes up and the world continues. There's gonna be plenty to talk about over the next four years.
Hey!
Where are all the fighters for women's rights and defenders of equity?
I mean, shouldn't they be here screaming joyously and chanting about orange naming the FIRST ever WOMAN to serve as Chief of Staff in our history? Not under Clinton, not under Obama, and not under Biden. Trump did it. He gets tons of scorn, maybe an ounce of credit?
Where are all the fighters for women's rights and defenders of equity?
I mean, shouldn't they be here screaming joyously and chanting about orange naming the FIRST ever WOMAN to serve as Chief of Staff in our history? Not under Clinton, not under Obama, and not under Biden. Trump did it. He gets tons of scorn, maybe an ounce of credit?
and republicans seem to be coming together over his choice. Maybe the GOP isn't so broken after all.
Regarding the screaming and chanting you refer to, I'm sure there will be plenty of that directed at her personally. It wouldn't be the left if there wasn't.
Isn't that the guy who was a lifelong democrat that was a supporter of RFK, ran for several political offices and served on Cincinnati's city council and as their mayor? Was actually a really smart guy who died of pancreatic cancer. It's a shame that some can't make the distinction of him playing a role on a semi scripted tv show and real life. Sounds familiar.
It feels like this is the first time you've actually mentioned something close to a policy view on this forum in eons.
What if they've only been in the US for 5 months and they came in illegally (not thru a legit border crossing)?
LOL at this part "are not receiving gov money you can stay." -- what does that even mean?
Listening to the pundits and the stuff going around social media makes me think that republicans likely win again in 2028.
After 2016 we were told that Hillary lost because of sexism, mixed with a little racism and homophobia. Apparently a grotesque stew of deplorable nitwits came out of the woodwork to try and kill America.
Eight years later and it is the exact same narrative about why Harris lost. There is zero recognition of the fact that democrats have lost the working class, and that people are sick of performative identity politics. The leadership in the Democratic Party is completely full of shit, and consumed with self righteousness. That is not a combination that lends itself to self reflection and growth.
There are plenty of deplorable, q anon dipshits out there. The extreme right Christian nationalist morons certainly exist, and we should probably keep a fairly close eye on them to make sure they’re kept in check. But they’re a small minority of extremists and there certainly aren’t nearly enough of them to win elections.
The brain rot on the left is a different beast. It may not be as radical, but it’s much more pervasive. The ‘land acknowledgements’ and woke oppression Olympics have become mainstream. The Democratic Party needs to change but so does its base. Until they get back to focusing on substantive issues that affect working middle class voters, they will continue to lose elections. Ironically, they will continue to take losses on the social issues in the process, because of the inability to coherently address the economic issues plaguing the middle class.
Sadly, I don’t think this country will ever come back together until/unless there is another major tragedy. Both sides had been thoroughly convinced that if they lost this election it would be the end of democracy. The truth is that we don’t need corrupt political elites to kill democracy, it seems like we’re perfectly capable of doing that to ourselves.
After 2016 we were told that Hillary lost because of sexism, mixed with a little racism and homophobia. Apparently a grotesque stew of deplorable nitwits came out of the woodwork to try and kill America.
Eight years later and it is the exact same narrative about why Harris lost. There is zero recognition of the fact that democrats have lost the working class, and that people are sick of performative identity politics. The leadership in the Democratic Party is completely full of shit, and consumed with self righteousness. That is not a combination that lends itself to self reflection and growth.
There are plenty of deplorable, q anon dipshits out there. The extreme right Christian nationalist morons certainly exist, and we should probably keep a fairly close eye on them to make sure they’re kept in check. But they’re a small minority of extremists and there certainly aren’t nearly enough of them to win elections.
The brain rot on the left is a different beast. It may not be as radical, but it’s much more pervasive. The ‘land acknowledgements’ and woke oppression Olympics have become mainstream. The Democratic Party needs to change but so does its base. Until they get back to focusing on substantive issues that affect working middle class voters, they will continue to lose elections. Ironically, they will continue to take losses on the social issues in the process, because of the inability to coherently address the economic issues plaguing the middle class.
Sadly, I don’t think this country will ever come back together until/unless there is another major tragedy. Both sides had been thoroughly convinced that if they lost this election it would be the end of democracy. The truth is that we don’t need corrupt political elites to kill democracy, it seems like we’re perfectly capable of doing that to ourselves.
Very well put. TBD on who will win in 2028 though. If the Dems stick their heads in the sand and refuse to learn from this loss, and double down on blaming racism, sexism, misogyny, transphobia, etc. then yes - they're fvcked next time around too. But if they ditch the woke messaging and propaganda and acknowledge that not agreeing with certain parts of their agenda doesn't make one an irredeemable heathen, they have a chance to rebound strongly.
Republicans will likely have an uphill battle next time. Having control across the board means that any fvck ups, and I'm sure there will be a few, lay squarely at their feet and they won't be able to pin it on a Dem president, legislature, or court. Republicans could really help their chances if they change their view on abortion and take that issue off the table - but I don't see that happening.
If Republicans would let go of the abortion issue, and Democrats would let go of super woke identity politics, we’d all be much better off. Unfortunately I think they both believe they’ll lose their base if they don’t fixate on those issues.
I'm not sure who falls into the dem's "base", but overall they're a fairly small segment.
That's a problem i've mentioned in the past is that Dems don't have a cohesive target. They're just trying to include everyone that isn't a gun-toting anti-gay bible-beater who think they are for small government (but only when big government isn't needed to help their feelings). There is no base. College-educated women?
Trump can simply say the fvck ups are the dem's fault and people will believe him.
"Until they get back to focusing on substantive issues that affect working middle class voters, they will continue to lose elections."
Sherrod Brown is about as pro-working-class as it gets. How was his opponent highlighting working middle class issues better? What did he say that addresses their economic issues?
"because of the inability to coherently address the economic issues plaguing the middle class."
Brown's message just can't get thru the muck IMO. Maybe he could've backed away from abortion-rights stuff. I believe the ability to communicate the message or communicate the contrasts is more than half the problem. Aside for speaking to feelings, what policy is Trump putting forward that addresses the middle class economic issues?
ETA - by muck, i mean echo-chambers, social media, misinfo, tribalism and confirmation bias, etc.
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any tragedy-induced coming together is going to be temporary. Any true coming together is extremely unlikely. There will continue to be an ongoing, natural slide toward a more socialistic society and there will be those who resist that slide.
And I say 'natural' slide not because I think it's a good thing but because it's inevitable that in a successful, pampered society, so many people are enlightened only by their immediate environment which makes them ask, we have it so good, why can't we change the rules to let everybody have it so good. They tend to think of their situation as the natural default human condition which others are being deprived of. So they join forces with those who do have less.
Meanwhile others (that would include me) feel that this is taking away the driving force that allowed the society to become as good as it is, and who understand that the default natural human condition is harsh and competitive.. The stratification of classes is due to such competition, which is a good and necessary thing and which ultimately benefits everyone although not necessarily equally. The socialistic think of competition and class distinction as unfair and therefor wrong. Well of course it's unfair...it's life. But being life, it isn't wrong.
Those on the right think we have done enough in providing a path for anyone who wants to put his nose to the grindstone, while those on the left don't think that's good enough. Rightists want a level playing field, leftists want a level outcome. Equality or equity.
The long and the short of it is an old story....we are spoiled and being fooled by our own success.
how persistently you deny that he is right even in the face of overwhelming evidence supporting his POV..
I'm not super informed on Ohio's state level dynamics but Trump crushed Harris in Ohio which I assume impacted all of the other races in the state.
I'd also be interested to see how much support Brown received from the party considered they have largely sidelined or outright sabotaged economically progressive candidates. Anyone who watched the 2016 and 2020 primaries is going to have a healthy level of skepticism there.
Socialism is about as big of a problem for the US as Nazism is. We live in a country where the highest court in the land has ruled that corporations have personhood and are entitled to political representation. That's literally the opposite end of the spectrum from socialism.
The people who "put their nose to the grindstone" have seen the purchasing power of their wages eroded while home ownership and financial security have become more and more elusive as the cost of living rises faster than their earnings do. For the first time in modern American history we are seeing a generation that is likely to end up economically worse off than their parents were. Conservatives are just as frustrated by this as liberals are which is why they are drawn to a populist candidate like trump who tells them that he is going to make their situation better.
The moralistic bullshit about what is "fair" is irrelevant. We have reached an unsustainable level of wealth and income inequality largely due to the asymmetry of bargaining power between the working class and their employers. Corporate profits have seen all time highs while wage growth has been stagnant. Telling an entire generation that being frustrated by macroeconomic conditions that preclude them from owning homes and having economic security makes them a socialist is f*cking stupid.
Your poast was just the right wing version of the liberals who are currently whining about how "they" want to take away their freedoms. You're both so consumed with reductionist views of the other side that you can't tell your ass from your elbow.
Also, by muck, I meant this. Heck, even a low # of Dems new the stock market is near all-time highs. Lots of dumb folks, lots of folks falling for misinfo. It is hard to message something tangible aside for a feelings-base or grievance-based message.
It takes more effort to debunk lies and conspiracy than to spout them.
It takes more effort to debunk lies and conspiracy than to spout them.
They might like having a dictator. I've read that a shit-ton of people died defending them!
The first problem I see with that is some guy named Zach Lambert getting his information about Trump from NPR and calling his position "Trump's tyrannical posture".
I'd say Mr. Lambert needs a few more lessons in history to learn about actual tyranny.
Point me in the right direction, please! What is the objective source for the truth about "actual tyranny?"
well that is pretty much just what I was saying about polarization and not coming together. We became what we are because of capitalism. Is it ideal? Nothing is ideal, including the goose that laid the golden egg. On the other hand, I agree that the notion of corporations being treated as individual citizens needs some rethinking...not completely though.
the people who put their noses to the grindstone of self-improvement is what I was referring to . There is a path for those who desire to take it, and the fallacy of being stuck at a certain level doesn't hold. There will of necessity be stratification of classes, but those who want to move up in the world have the means to do so. THAT is what needs to be appreciated.
There is a great disparity in wealth, no question. But the working classes are not being held in place because the wealthy have all the money. That is utter nonsense.
and I didn't say that voicing frustration over one's lot in life was tantamount to socialism. I'm sure I've done a little of that myself. But I didn't wallow in it, I did something about it...and believe me, I started at the bottom. Whatever the answer is, taking away the molding effect of competition and simply leveling outcomes is the wrong way to keep us prosperous. Home ownership being unattainable has more to do with the price of a home than with anything else.
this is you trying to sound more savvy than you actually are, and I suspect there is resentment that colors your thinking..
At the core of anything is the thing that makes it what it is. Picking at the nuances and tweaking them endlessly and expeditiously is just pissing up a tree or playing whack-a-mole.. Discovering root causes and determining the underlying reality of our existence and our society and culture is a necessary first step that is vastly overlooked by those who whine rather than think. When one thinks, he's going to find that life itself presents us with much that is inherently unsolvable yet entirely workable with limitations.
The people who you paint as struggling so mightily are living like kings compared to those who preceded them by not that many years. Throughout history, lesser kings have coveted what greater kings have. That's a good thing. Eliminating competition by taking more and more away from those who have succeeded to give to those who haven't succeeded as well is not. Human nature doesn't change. Competition requires that there are winners and losers, and competition is what drove the evolution that has made us what we are.. The best thing to do is to harness those better aspects of human nature while limiting the aspects that hold us back. Then, if we look at it realistically, we realize that the losers don't have it so bad because the competition has lifted us all.
I agree completely, but I think the emphasis should start much sooner. In order to do so, we might have to cut back on other aspects of social studies, which in itself would be of great benefit in building appreciation for what we have and the cooperation we need to sustain it. More what is and can be and less what isn't but should be.
nope. The abortion issue is indicative of a degradation of morality. We need to regain some human values. We whine about the increase in capital crimes but yearn for the freedom to conveniently terminate human life. It's become all about convenience and not right and wrong.
I'm not a proponent of eliminating abortion, as much as I detest the idea. But the widespread use of abortion as a form of birth control is indicative of a society that has accepted murder as part of our existence....as long as said murder doesn't affect us directly and negatively. Having an abortion should be a much bigger deal than it has been., and the last thing republicans should do is to sell out in that respect.
The 'woke' stupidity is self-evident. Of course I might be accused of reductionism or partisanship by saying so, but hell even Bill Maher agrees with me on this...vehemently.
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