Our Bigs...

[Archer2]

First, let me preface this by saying it's questionable as to whether Sterling can get healthy enough to even play this year. If he does, it is still questionable whether or not his conditioning would allow him to make a meaningful contribution. So I am going on the assumption that he won't play, and if he does, anything he gives us will be gravy.

After rewatching the LNWR scrimmage, I am happy to see that Huff and Walker both seem to have improved enough to at least "hold the fort" when they relieve one of our starters. Both seem to be in pretty good shape and run the court reasonably well. And someone has obviously been working on adding the jump hook to their arsenal, as both demonstrated multiple times during the exhibition. I have always felt it was the most effective shot a big can master, being almost impossible to block if executed properly. It can be especially effective for bigs who aren't great athletes, a description that fits both of these guys. If they continue to work on their footwork, establishing position, making themselves available for the pass and catching it, they can give us adequate play off the bench. And I think we'll need that because Garrison has been foul prone thus far(hoping the light will come on for him as it did for Brice in his junior year), and Mando is a freshman adjusting to bigger/faster/stronger competition, and is liable to encounter foul/conditioning issues as most freshmen bigs do.

Mando has a lot to learn, a lot. I can't see any way at this point that he doesn't play at least two years for us. He has good, but not great, hands. He has a good frame which should enable him to put on more muscle. While he isn't a great leaper, his long arms should compensate somewhat and allow him to be a solid rebounder. His footwork and post moves are going to need a lot of work, much as most freshmen bigs do. I do think he will, by necessity, start alongside Garrison from day one. I expect steady improvement as the year progresses.

Garrison has steadily improved as he's gotten stronger and played more. He will finally get to play his more natural PF position and that should benefit him. We need him to be an upperclassman leader, like BRob, and be a steadying influence on the team. He and Mando need to control the boards if we're to compete for the ACC title. I think they are capable of that, with help from our rangy wings of course.

What do you think?

 

[DSouthr]

Yeah arch, you hit on the thing that most concerns me, not so much how we play with both Bacot and Brooks in the game but more, how we play when they are on the bench for extended periods with foul trouble, which I think is going to happen more than we want. One notion not so sure I endorse as easily as most seem willing to is Brooks taking a huge jump in his scoring, while I do expect him to increase his scoring due to maturity, need for him to score, and the Cole factor I am not expecting that to be a huge leap forward.

But yeah, as I have shared, the wheel turns out of need to Pierce, Huff, and Walker. 3 very different types of big men that can be plugged in depending on the match ups in any given game. There are advantages and disadvantages using all 3.

Oh and I 100% agree, have always felt the jump hook is the best weapon any aspiring big man can develop, a jump hook and a counter can make a kid a millionaire in short order!

 

[TarHeelTroy]

I'm excited for our front court. We have struggled to be consistently strong inside they way Carolina likes to play since Kennedy and Isaiah left (and Brice the year before). Although Luke did a heck of a job rebounding for us last 2 years (for him at 6'8 to average 10 rebs is remarkable), he was really out of natural position much of the time, as was Garrison more so last year. I agree for Garrison to move to the PF spot will be huge. I think he will thrive. You're right Armando has a lot of potential for improvement and some aspects a long way from where we need him to be. But he will be a solid anchor for rebounding and rim protection.

It's really cool that Walker and Huff might have a chance to contribute this year, especially thinking about what they were as freshmen. Many (myself included at times) may have been thinking there was no way they would ever see the court for meaningful minutes.

I wonder about Justin Pierce and how good he will be. I'm sure he will play quite a bit of PF minutes in backup to Garrison. Justin didn't show much in the scrimmage, but if he can rebound and defend well enough at the 4 against ACC competition, and hit some shots to stretch the defense, it will be really nice bonus. He has a chance to fit well into the team.

Quite a few questions, yes, but a ton of opportunities. I'm excited.

 

[Tom79]

Pierce is 6'6" so I am not so sure many of his minutes will be at the 4, most likely at the 3.
I can certainly see Leaky for some minutes at 2-3- or 4 as needed.
Brooks may be of help to Mando inside but ya know, maybe the kid can be of help to Garrison as well.
If Walker and Huff can give us any meaningful minutes at the 5 to spell Mando, shoowee that would be huge.
I am going to relax and let Cole run the offense. I have enjoyed hearing we may be better defensively than offensively.
Is it November?

 

[Archer2]

Yeah @TarHeelTroy, I didn't include Justin but there is a possibility that he sees some time at the four in a small ball lineup. But knowing Roy, I think he will play two bigs as much as possible and minimize small ball as much as he can. I think Justin is a more natural SF who can hit the boards and step outside and hit the three, a nice versatile piece to add to our arsenal of players.

And to reiterate, Garrison has been foul prone so far in his UNC career. I do believe that part of his tendency to foul was the fact that, having to play center, he was matched up against bigger/stronger players. It became a little less of an issue as he's filled out, but he was still giving up considerable weight at times. Moving to PF should help him defensively as well as offensively. I understand he has been working to expand his game to include a 15-18 foot jumper. If so, that would open up the lane and bring the high-low option into play.

 

[TarHeelTroy]

We'll have to see, but I think Pierce is versatile enough to play as a "stretch 4". Whether or not its the most ideal spot for him we will need Justin to play backup PF minutes. Who else can do it besides Leaky? And I agree Leaky will get some of the PF minutes, but we will need Leaky to fill at other positions (1/2/3) as well.

 

[iwish]

I always felt that Garrison got a bit of the short stick by ending up having to play out of natural position and way more minutes than he should have, meaning had Manley had panned out better health, minutes and skills wise and/or another true "starting" caliber big been available. On the positive side, he has been given way more playing time and his game has grown. I really like the young man and hope he has a great third year.

 

[gary-7]

First, let me preface this by saying it's questionable as to whether Sterling can get healthy enough to even play this year. If he does, it is still questionable whether or not his conditioning would allow him to make a meaningful contribution. So I am going on the assumption that he won't play, and if he does, anything he gives us will be gravy.

After rewatching the LNWR scrimmage, I am happy to see that Huff and Walker both seem to have improved enough to at least "hold the fort" when they relieve one of our starters. Both seem to be in pretty good shape and run the court reasonably well. And someone has obviously been working on adding the jump hook to their arsenal, as both demonstrated multiple times during the exhibition. I have always felt it was the most effective shot a big can master, being almost impossible to block if executed properly. It can be especially effective for bigs who aren't great athletes, a description that fits both of these guys. If they continue to work on their footwork, establishing position, making themselves available for the pass and catching it, they can give us adequate play off the bench. And I think we'll need that because Garrison has been foul prone thus far(hoping the light will come on for him as it did for Brice in his junior year), and Mando is a freshman adjusting to bigger/faster/stronger competition, and is liable to encounter foul/conditioning issues as most freshmen bigs do.

Mando has a lot to learn, a lot. I can't see any way at this point that he doesn't play at least two years for us. He has good, but not great, hands. He has a good frame which should enable him to put on more muscle. While he isn't a great leaper, his long arms should compensate somewhat and allow him to be a solid rebounder. His footwork and post moves are going to need a lot of work, much as most freshmen bigs do. I do think he will, by necessity, start alongside Garrison from day one. I expect steady improvement as the year progresses.

Garrison has steadily improved as he's gotten stronger and played more. He will finally get to play his more natural PF position and that should benefit him. We need him to be an upperclassman leader, like BRob, and be a steadying influence on the team. He and Mando need to control the boards if we're to compete for the ACC title. I think they are capable of that, with help from our rangy wings of course.

What do you think?

The frontline issue is that Brooks is our only prototype 4. I imagine Bacot will start at the 5, with Huff and Miller getting some backup minutes. The question is can Miller pull off some minutes as a 4? He has "stretch" shooting abilties but mobility is a question.

A remaining question will be the "Hybrid" role for going Small, i.e., can Pierce pull that off being undersized? I would suggest a healthy Leaky could work well there --- sort of a taller Theo.

 

[unchampions]

Pierce pull that off being undersized?

Don't know that he's even undersized. We were the only team in the ACC last year to start a PF over 6'7.

 

[gary-7]

Don't know that he's even undersized. We were the only team in the ACC last year to start a PF over 6'7.

Well, I was referring in comparison to Luke (or being strong enough to bang inside like Nas)... the inherent challenge of going Small. Whoever gets the Hybrid role in that configuration has a lot of rebounding/inside defense responsibility. So that will be the question.

 

[gauchoheel]

Where is the idea that Pierce is undersized for a backup 4 coming from? Roy has said he is practicing at the 3 and the 4. He’ll definitely play there. While Huff/Miller may have improved enough to not be a headache, they’re not playing 15 min a game just for a couple inches of height.

Pierce is 6-7, 210. Cam was 6-9, 210, so Pierce is stockier than him. Cam was fine at the 4, and started much of 2017-2018 there for us. Nas was 6-6 (and that was a bit high for his real height), 220. He has more girth but Pierce is probably 1.5 inches taller than him. Theo was our best defender against Marvin Bagley at 6-6, 211.

For 90% of the teams we play Pierce can probably defend the opposing 4 better than the other way around. He stretches the floor, which we’ll need this year. I think we flex Brooks up to the 5 and play Pierce over playing a walk-on like Miller.

 

[DSouthr]

Where is the idea that Pierce is undersized for a backup 4 coming from? Roy has said he is practicing at the 3 and the 4. He’ll definitely play there. While Huff/Miller may have improved enough to not be a headache, they’re not playing 15 min a game just for a couple inches of height.

Pierce is 6-7, 210. Cam was 6-9, 210, so Pierce is stockier than him. Cam was fine at the 4, and started much of 2017-2018 there for us. Nas was 6-6 (and that was a bit high for his real height), 220. He has more girth but Pierce is probably 1.5 inches taller than him. Theo was our best defender against Marvin Bagley at 6-6, 211.

For 90% of the teams we play Pierce can probably defend the opposing 4 better than the other way around. He stretches the floor, which we’ll need this year. I think we flex Brooks up to the 5 and play Pierce over playing a walk-on like Miller.

While I agree, I hope (more than know) that Pierce can help us at the 4, he is IMO a bit under sized. Our starting 4 last season was Luke, Cam started at the 3, swung down to the 4 at times but even when he did he was long for his height. Naz not only had the girth and strength to play the 4 but his reach was like 7'1", with an explosive quick vertical. While Luke had more average reach for his 6'8" frame, he had good strength, carried around 245lbs was and was very basketball smart reading where rebounds would come off and really good blocking out. Theo was effective dropping to the 4 but again, Theo was really long for 6'7", don't know his standing reach but it was close to that 7ft range. Theo had that wirely kind of strength, had really good feet, the quickness to really bother a longer guy like Bagley.

By contrast, Walker for example, at 6'10" may not have the standing reach that Naz had and certainly could not match his girth, physical strength, or vertical explosion. Pierce, as far as I can tell is more average reach for his height and not having the physical girth or strength that Luke had. My sense last season is that we may have played a lot of teams with 4s that did not have great height but their length and athleticism were more than what you would expect for a guy their listed height.

Not dumping on Pierce or you belief that he can help us at the 4, I may prefer him at the 3 but yeah, I do think he can help us at the 4. Kid from what I have seen has a little bit of a Mike O'Koren or Matt Doherty type of grit to his game, not afraid to stick his nose in there even if under sized, explosive enough to finish above the rim, and can step outside and pop jumpers. Roy has already mentioned that the kid is a sneaky rebounder.

The reality is this, Bacot is a freshman, I fully expect him to find a lot of foul trouble as a freshman, not yet sold he is a 1&D level guy by NBA standards. Not a knock on the kid just realizing that happens with our frosh big men. Brooks has had foul issues as well, yes that was trying to defend the 5 where the 4 was his more natural spot, he was a bit under sized to be a 5 as a frosh. Brooks is a hard nosed defender, it is his defense that has defined him as a player for us much more than his offense but being so has him ride that razors edge for picking up fouls.

When either Bacot or Brooks and at times both find extended bench time for fouls, realizing that Manley just not seem to be a factor for us due to health, it comes down to Pierce to fill in at the 4 with Huff and Walker filling in the 5, IMO a lot rides on these 3. Now I think that Walker can help us more at the 4 than the 5, he can play a bit of a stretch 4 role, has a very nice face up game, needed to add bulk and strength his first 2 years with us but don't judge him based on the offers he had (or didn't have) coming out of high school or the fact he has been light used, kid is better than most realize. I don't want to see leaky having to play the 4 much, really feel we need him much more at the wing (the spot I think Pierce may be better suited for).

 

[gary-7]

Where is the idea that Pierce is undersized for a backup 4 coming from? Roy has said he is practicing at the 3 and the 4. He’ll definitely play there. While Huff/Miller may have improved enough to not be a headache, they’re not playing 15 min a game just for a couple inches of height.

Pierce is 6-7, 210. Cam was 6-9, 210, so Pierce is stockier than him. Cam was fine at the 4, and started much of 2017-2018 there for us. Nas was 6-6 (and that was a bit high for his real height), 220. He has more girth but Pierce is probably 1.5 inches taller than him. Theo was our best defender against Marvin Bagley at 6-6, 211.

For 90% of the teams we play Pierce can probably defend the opposing 4 better than the other way around. He stretches the floor, which we’ll need this year. I think we flex Brooks up to the 5 and play Pierce over playing a walk-on like Miller.

That's why it's called "going Small" (and "6'7" is a bit of a stretch for Pierce BTW). As I said above he will slot into the Hybrid role off the bench, but that the "4" part of the Hybrid is still a work in progress for him. Justin is primarily a face-up player by trade and thus he is working on adjusting to the added post responsibilities the 4 has in our system. Hopefully that adjustment will continue to progress going forward.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Mando has a lot to learn, a lot. I can't see any way at this point that he doesn't play at least two years for us. He has good, but not great, hands. He has a good frame which should enable him to put on more muscle. While he isn't a great leaper, his long arms should compensate somewhat and allow him to be a solid rebounder. His footwork and post moves are going to need a lot of work, much as most freshmen bigs do. I do think he will, by necessity, start alongside Garrison from day one. I expect steady improvement as the year progresses.

This is what I thought when I saw him in those clips before he arrived on campus. And I'd add that his motor didn't look all that great either.

Then again, that was just parts of a couple of games and I was more impressed with guys like Josh Green, Springer, and Robinson-Earl. Those are tough comparisons for anyone.

OTOH, Mando will be getting all the minutes he can handle. Unlike Tony Bradley, who was playing behind a couple of pretty good seniors. So he may get better faster, and end up being OAD.

Roy's comment that Mando needs to get healthy is worrisome. Does anyone know what his health issue is?

 

[ProfessorOwl]

It's going to be very interesting watching Garrison play the 4. He was extraordinarily good defending ball screens as a 5, that gives me hope he can defend the many perimeter oriented 4s in college basketball.

And yea, now that he's at his natural position, how will his bigger size advantage help him on offense? At times, he's going to have 2-3 inches and 30+lbs on the guy defending him.

Also, how good is our big to big passing going to be? Garrison's A/TO ratio in ACC play was absurd. If he and Armando can get some chemistry going that could be a huge weapon (especially against Virginia, Syracuse, etc).

Put me down as someone who thinks that the play of Garrison and Armando will make or break our season.

 

[unchampions]

? Garrison's A/TO ratio in ACC play was absurd.

can't look it up right now but I'm pretty sure he led the team in assists or at least tied a few games. That's why I say we slide Brooks to the one and let Cole play off the ball!!!

 

[Archer2]

OTOH, Mando will be getting all the minutes he can handle. Unlike Tony Bradley, who was playing behind a couple of pretty good seniors. So he may get better faster, and end up being OAD.

Anything is possible. But I really do feel that Mando Is at least a two year guy, unless he blows up this year. Like you said, he'll get as many minutes as he can handle.

Roy's comment that Mando needs to get healthy is worrisome. Does anyone know what his health issue is?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Tom79]

As to "Bigs", I sure hope Walker Miller is good for a minute or three.

 

[Archer2]

As to "Bigs", I sure hope Walker Miller is good for a minute or three.

And I believe he will be @Tom79. Without Sterling, it will be up to Walker and Huff to provide a few minutes in relief off the bench. I think they have both progressed to the point where they will be up to the challenge.

I have mentioned before that Garrison has been foul prone the last couple of years, and Mando is a freshman. As we know, freshmen big men tend to be foul prone as well. I feel we will be lucky if we can get 28-30 MPG each from those two. That leaves at least 20 minutes at the 4/5 spots to be covered.

There has been speculation that Pierce could play some PF and that's certainly a possibility. With Leaky at SF, that would still give us pretty good height on the front line. But I think we're going to need 10-12 quality minutes per game combined from Huff and Walker if we're to be a great team.

 

[Tom79]

I'm hopeful that "walker has improved a great deal" is true.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

As to "Bigs", I sure hope Walker Miller is good for a minute or three.

He certainly looked better in the scrimmage, but I don't expect too much.

Huff also looked better, and that may be more important. If Huff can give us good minutes, that's fewer minutes that Garrison needs to play the post. Which is fewer minutes when Justin or Walker need to play PF.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Last year Walker had that timid, deer-in-headlights look and tended to play smaller than he is. Didn't see either of those in the scrimmage. Then again, he was just playing against friends. So we'll have to see if he's really progressed beyond those tendencies when he's up against foes who want to pound him down. I hope so.

Does anyone know his wingspan? He's pretty tall, but I don't get the impression his arms are all that long. I could be wrong.