Planned Murder ...I mean Parenthood
- Thread starter bleeduncblue
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The answer is no, and no. He is patient and slow to anger. He doesn't want to punish us. He gives us time to stop sinning, He tells us what we must do to get right with Him. Just one example from the Bible:
The Corrupt Church
18 “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write,
‘These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: 19 “I know your works, love, service, faith,[b] and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first.20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow[c] that woman[d] Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce[e] My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent.[f] 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their[g] deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.
24 “Now to you I say, and[h] to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will[i] put on you no other burden. 25 But hold fast what you have till I come. 26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—
27 ‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron;
They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’[j]—
as I also have received from My Father; 28 and I will give him the morning star.
29 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’
I don't believe that verse means that the ONLY WAY one acquires faith is by simply reading/hearing the Word of God. It took more than that for Paul himself, from what I've understood from reading Acts. It took an epiphany - like experience to pull him from persecuting followers of Jesus!
Again, you take a verse or phrase completely literal when it suits your opinion. Then you act as if you're infallible because your literal interpretation happens to come from the Bible. That's your arrogance shining bright as usual.
So, what was your "Road to Damascus" moment? And, is there any Book, Chapter, or verse in the Bible that you interpret literally???
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Sure, I interpret a few too literally for my own good. 1 Corinthians 4 and 5 stump me every time. How Paul claims in chapter 4 that, basically, no one but God can judge, and then in the very next chapter, he says, "I have already judged you even though I'm not there in person." The words in Chapter 4 make me feel awesome! I love how he makes it clear that Paul cannot even judge himself because he is just a man! Then, he claims to judge people in Corinth and hasn't even been there, he's only heard about what's going on. And, regardless of what's going on, HOW do you claim to judge when you just went into great detail about how no man can judge anyone! Only God judges.
My Road to Damascus? Glad you asked.
My Dad was near death from Agent Orange cancer. He was in a Hospice care at Johnston Willis Hospital in Richmond. This was October 1993. He was admitted on Sunday and died 1 week later, Sunday morning, Halloween.
Anyway, he was very weak, very ill the whole week. We thought he was dying the Sunday we called the ambulance at my folks' home in Hopewell. But, it was a fever and they got him settled. But he was still very weak and not very coherent. Then, Thursday afternoon, he told my mother (I later found out he had told her) "Tell everyone to come here. I need to talk with them all." Now, "everyone" was an immediate family of roughly 20-30 people that had been visiting on and off throughout the week, and the pastor of the church, who was his close friend now, same age, and had served in Vietnam, too. So, we all finally get there... From the moment the door closed, his entire presence became like he was perfectly healthy... in an instant. He had no indication or visible sign of any ailment whatsoever. His voice became strong and loud. He spoke to each of us individually about what he wanted us all to try to do with our lives, and how he appreciated everything we'd done, individually, for him. Then, he spoke to all of us, collectively, and his voice and speech pattern changed a bit. He said "I love you all. I want you all to know how much I care for each of you and even those of your families that aren't here, I love them. I love everyone, even those I've never seen. I want you to all to love each other and care for each other after I'm gone. But, I won't be gone. I will be here. I'm always here. I want to be able to come down 295 (the interstate through Prince George) and I want to see a glow around my church. I want you all to remember that I've told you these things, and remember this, and I want you all to enjoy your lives as much as you can and remember to care of one another. I thank all of you for coming here to see me and I wanted you all to know I love you." Now, I'm paraphrasing some of the statements, because this was 22 years ago and it was a really intense moment. And, he said more than just these things, but what i have written are what stuck with me. I can't say for sure what he told each person because when he spoke to each person individually, alone, I didn't hear them. I only know what he told me. I'd rather keep what he told me to myself. But, the most dramatic part of that experience was when he said things like "I want to see a glow around MY church." or "I want MY family to love each other and care for one another." Now, my father was a kind person, but he NEVER used references like "MY church" or "MY family." He was never so outwardly vocal with words of affection at all...never! It literally became like his body was just the voice for something else speaking. Everyone that saw it, knew it. His gestures were so obvious and he smiled and laughed. You'd have thought we were sitting at a family gathering somewhere. After everyone had left, he looked at me and he winked, and he said, three times, "Everything is gonna be alright now." And, then he closed his eyes, and his body went right back to the sick, dying state it had been when I got there. His attention span was barely there, he was quiet and barely present at all. And, just minutes before, he had been beyond lucid. He was emphatically lucid and loud. He was animated and articulate. You could feel it. Everyone shared glances with each other the whole time. But, when they left, he turned off almost like a light switch. He was asleep in about 5 or 10 minutes and rarely came to any kind of consciousness until he died the following Sunday morning.
The pastor pulled me aside before he left and said "Eddie, I've felt a strong presence of the Holy Spirit two times in my life... and now, it's three. We were Moses and he was the Burning Bush." It's a bit eerie, too, because all of us that were there had a unique shared experience that we can, and still do, reflect upon with each other.
I didn't go blind, but I was seeing and hearing for sure!
That's really good, thanks for sharing that experience. I have no doubt your Dad is doing just fine!
***JUST A LITTLE UPDATE***
President Barack Obama told a group of young African leaders on Monday that harvesting organs from humans that are killed as part of an African ritual was “craziness” and a “cruel” tradition that needed to stop. He warned of dehumanizing marginal groups of humans and of the problems that arise when “you are not able to see someone else as a human being.”
In a wide-ranging question and answer session with members of the Young African Leaders Initiative [YALI], a woman from Kenya said “Persons with albinism in Africa are being killed and their body parts harvested for ritual purposes. My request to you is to raise this issue with heads of state of African countries to bring these atrocities to an end.”
Obama decried the practice and went on to encourage the young people to do everything in their power to fight on the behalf of vulnerable humans.
“Young people, you can lead the way and set a good example. But it requires some courage because the old thinking, people will push back at you and if you don’t have convictions and courage to be able stand up for what you think is right, then cruelty will perpetuate itself,” he said. He added, “If there’s one thing I want YALI leaders to come out with, it’s the notion of you are strong by taking care of the people who are vulnerable, by looking after the minority, looking after the disabled, looking after the vulnerable. You’re not strong by putting people down you’re strong by lifting them up. That’s the measure of a leader.”
Obama also tied the practice of harvesting organs from albinos with racism and discrimination against gay people and urged consistency in how they view the sanctity of human life if they want to complain about human rights abuses.
Obama’s comments come in the midst of a weeks-long scandal in his own country over the killing of unborn children via abortion followed by the harvesting and distribution of their organs. The Center for Medical Progress has released five videos of Planned Parenthood officials discussing the killing of human fetuses and the harvesting of their organs — or entire cadavers — to researchers willing to pay a pretty penny for them.
On the topic of human organ harvesting, President Obama’s spokesman Josh Earnest has said that President Obama has chosen not to watch the video footage of Planned Parenthood officials dissecting human fetuses for parts. Nevertheless, President Obama has vehemently defended the abortion group.
In 2012, Planned Parenthood said, while announcing a $1.4 million ad buy on his behalf, that they had “no greater champion” than President Obama.
During his time in the Illinois Senate, Obama’s devotion to abortion was so extreme that he argued a form of infanticide should remain legal out of fear that protecting infants born alive might somehow protect young humans in the womb.
President Barack Obama told a group of young African leaders on Monday that harvesting organs from humans that are killed as part of an African ritual was “craziness” and a “cruel” tradition that needed to stop. He warned of dehumanizing marginal groups of humans and of the problems that arise when “you are not able to see someone else as a human being.”
In a wide-ranging question and answer session with members of the Young African Leaders Initiative [YALI], a woman from Kenya said “Persons with albinism in Africa are being killed and their body parts harvested for ritual purposes. My request to you is to raise this issue with heads of state of African countries to bring these atrocities to an end.”
Obama decried the practice and went on to encourage the young people to do everything in their power to fight on the behalf of vulnerable humans.
“Young people, you can lead the way and set a good example. But it requires some courage because the old thinking, people will push back at you and if you don’t have convictions and courage to be able stand up for what you think is right, then cruelty will perpetuate itself,” he said. He added, “If there’s one thing I want YALI leaders to come out with, it’s the notion of you are strong by taking care of the people who are vulnerable, by looking after the minority, looking after the disabled, looking after the vulnerable. You’re not strong by putting people down you’re strong by lifting them up. That’s the measure of a leader.”
Obama also tied the practice of harvesting organs from albinos with racism and discrimination against gay people and urged consistency in how they view the sanctity of human life if they want to complain about human rights abuses.
Obama’s comments come in the midst of a weeks-long scandal in his own country over the killing of unborn children via abortion followed by the harvesting and distribution of their organs. The Center for Medical Progress has released five videos of Planned Parenthood officials discussing the killing of human fetuses and the harvesting of their organs — or entire cadavers — to researchers willing to pay a pretty penny for them.
On the topic of human organ harvesting, President Obama’s spokesman Josh Earnest has said that President Obama has chosen not to watch the video footage of Planned Parenthood officials dissecting human fetuses for parts. Nevertheless, President Obama has vehemently defended the abortion group.
In 2012, Planned Parenthood said, while announcing a $1.4 million ad buy on his behalf, that they had “no greater champion” than President Obama.
During his time in the Illinois Senate, Obama’s devotion to abortion was so extreme that he argued a form of infanticide should remain legal out of fear that protecting infants born alive might somehow protect young humans in the womb.
Strum, that sounds as close as someone can get to God in this life. I think anyone who remotely believes in God knows we only have part of the story. Walking with God in all one does and simply believing in him are really 2 different things. At my church, we believe in the full doctrine the Bible teaches. To me, its not hard to understand the concept of a wrathful God, or a loving God. It's humanity that destroys that relationship with God. I too had a "revealing" when I was younger. Several actually. For me personally, nothing will ever be able to dispute my belief in God. When I get back to my computer, I will share it. To hard to type on my phone
I have conservative leanings but I have little issue with abortion. Many conservatives have issues with social entitlement programs like EBT and Medicaid...as I am too. Conservatives seem to be concerned more with stopping abortions than offering aid to those born into poverty.
I wold rather the gov't pay for the abortion rather than support a person for 18+ years of entitlement programs.
I wold rather the gov't pay for the abortion rather than support a person for 18+ years of entitlement programs.
Sure, but the people providing the abortions need to recognize that theirs is a controversial business and that discretion is the call of the day.
How can humanity be to blame for destroying the relationship with god, when god would be responsible for creating humanity the way it is? Let's not completely throw logic out the window here...
That is a sort of Yin/Yang question and answer.
If you approach it from a completely religious point of view, which most people are inclined to do, then it's easy to understand how humans are solely to blame for their choices that distance them from God (or a higher consciousness). We all do make choices that put us in a certain direction.
I have. Multiple times, cover to cover. And it did tell me all I need to know. That Christianity has no basis in reality whatsoever, and like every other con, its a cheap trick that appeals to credulity over skepticism. Like religion, the first step for a con man is to establish trust (faith) as virtuous, to convince you not to doubt him. Once that step is complete the game is all over. There's no difference between your book, and the Odyssey or the Illiad. Well written fiction, that's all.
Just out of curiosity; are you of the belief that when this body's heart stops beating, we just become worm food (or used to)? There's nothing beyond the 5 sensory perception?
So very sad. Boy you need help. And I doubt you have read the Bible "cover to cover several times" just like you're not a 'liberal". Such a joke you are.
I think the most logical conclusion is that our consciousness in the form we know it terminates when our physical body dies. The neuroscience is pretty watertight here, almost every neurological process can be traced to electrical impulses in the brain which cease to fire off when we die. So its hard to imagine any way our consciousness survives our physical death. Unless you convince yourself there is some numinous magical component to our existence and therefore isn't subject to the laws of nature and physics.
I would however be a fool to believe there is nothing beyond the 5 sensory perception. We are after all, in many ways poorly evolved mammals. Our adrenal gland is much too large, and our pre-frontal cortex is much too small. Our eyes can only see a tiny piece of the electromagnetic spectrum and our ears can hear a relatively tiny range of decibels. Quantum scale research has already shown us the universe is physically much more complex than we understand. Personally I believe the entire universe is connected somehow at the quantum scale, and there is far more to it than what we understand.
However, that in no way suggests there is any kind of monotheistic style divinity, much less one that intervenes in human activity. I very much liked Arian Foster's quotes in the ESPN article about him coming out as an atheist. He essentially said he found it ridiculous when his teammates would pray for victory or safety before/after games, how could any kind of God be paying attention to football games when millions of children around the world starved and died as victims of nothing but the circumstances of their birth? What is ultimately ridiculous however, is to allow other human beings to sell you on the idea of divine revelation. To tell you they know answers to the universe they could not possibly know, and that if you disagree with them, their loving god will eternally torture you after your death. Or better yet, the fools who tell you that you need help, or are lost if you disagree with them. In debate, the rules of logic dictate that any claim that cannot be supported by objective evidence when challenged does not bear any weight.
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I am libertarian in some ways, in other ways I am not. Only unenlightened fools base their thinking identity politics.
And phrasing your last sentence like Yoda?... Make you look intelligent, it does not.
Very articulate and lucid. Thanks.
Watch this sometime.
Also, check out Joseph Campbell on You Tube.
It's definitely a different take than the Man In The Sky version.
Yes, it was. While I may not agree, I can respect his opinion without belittling him for it.
So, you can berate and belittle people for believing in Jesus Christ, yet can sit here on your high horse and call Christians insane? All while going on your diatribe about abortion? So, uncboy, when does life begin? Is it concept? First detection of a heart beat (which CLINICALLY denotes the presence of life)? Birth? You want to support immigration, calling Conservatives many names for not doing so, and then essentially allow murder ala abortion?
I have no beef with you, and if anything I've said offends you, I apologize. With that said though, isn't social injustice one of the platforms that the Democratic party claims to uphold? Then why are conservatives belittled for wanting to intervene on what they believe to be a social injustice (abortion)?
Is it murder when a terminally brain dead patient is removed from life support? I would argue no. Termination of life, and murder are two entirely different things.
Do I condone the selling of the organs of aborted fetuses? Hell no, that's one of the most repulsive ideas I've ever heard. But ya know abortions don't generally happen unless you have an unwanted pregnancy, and PP provides millions of women with contraceptive that significantly reduces the number of unwanted pregnancies. The government does NOT fund abortions. The law explicitly prevents the use of tax payer money to pay for abortions. This attempt to use that video to defund PP was a cheap attempt to conflate an issue that is already morally complex enough.
Personally I say let women choose. Its their body, and nobody is paying for abortions with your tax money anyways.
Do I condone the selling of the organs of aborted fetuses? Hell no, that's one of the most repulsive ideas I've ever heard. But ya know abortions don't generally happen unless you have an unwanted pregnancy, and PP provides millions of women with contraceptive that significantly reduces the number of unwanted pregnancies. The government does NOT fund abortions. The law explicitly prevents the use of tax payer money to pay for abortions. This attempt to use that video to defund PP was a cheap attempt to conflate an issue that is already morally complex enough.
Personally I say let women choose. Its their body, and nobody is paying for abortions with your tax money anyways.
Alright, just playing devil's advocate. What is your take on mandatory vaccinations before attending elementary school?
Well I think that's another tough issue where we have to weigh both sides of the coin. As a matter of principle I don't like the government being able to force me to do anything, much less dictate the way I might raise any future children I might have.
I'm not an expert on anti-vaccination science, however the benefits of vaccination seem to outweigh any risks. The idea of some idiot parents bring back polio does seem a bit scary. I'll have to give this one some more thought.
While technically true, I have a hard time with the rationale behind this. Planned Parenthood performs abortions on an estimated 10% of its clients, yet none of the government funds can be used for abortions. I have an accounting background and understand how that can be delineated in the financial statements, but the point is that the government provides funding to an organization that performs abortions. That's a really fuzzy line to draw.
It's a public health issue. When individual choice can have enormous implications for the general public, I think the government should be able to issue an overriding mandate.
"Content" might not be the word I would use.
But yes, I think a lot of folks with ethical oppositions to abortion would appreciate not having their tax dollars co-mingled at organizations that perform them.For the record, I support a woman's right to choose (i.e. government non-interference) but personally disagree with abortion.
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