Police shoot and kill unarmed teen

[Raising Heel]

Stop me if you've heard this one before: there are conflicting versions of the events that led to the teen's death.

The official police report never mentioned the two gunshots that killed Hammond on July 26 in a Hardees parking lot.

Police say the officer was a victim of “attempted murder” by Hammond, who was driving the vehicle. According to Seneca Police Chief John Covington, Hammond was driving the car “toward the officer” who was trying to make the stop. The officer fired twice, striking Hammond in the shoulder and torso.

On Wednesday, Hammond’s family released the results of a private autopsy, which concluded that both bullets entered Hammond’s body from the back.

The county coroner didn't specify the direction from which the bullets entered his body. Makes you wonder.

All this from an undercover drug sting for 10 grams of marijuana. First of all, it's ludicrous that the police would even go to such lengths for a misdemeanor with a $200 maximum fine. And the police report certainly sounds suspect as well.

In case you're wondering why you haven't heard about this incident yet, it might be because Hammond was white. Where's the ACLU? Where's the front page media? The unjustified use of lethal force by police is obviously the bigger issue here, but it's worth noting that the problem isn't necessarily racially motivated. Conflating the two issues is one of the biggest obstacles to addressing either in a meaningful way.

 

[tazki]

It was a white kid. No "big deal".......So SICK of this "black lives matter" BS. Bottom line as I have always said, comply with the police, don't try to run and this will never happen. This country has lost all respect for authority and Bozo is leading the charge.

 

[Raising Heel]

Bottom line as I have always said, comply with the police, don't try to run and this will never happen.

That's simply not realistic. Suspects are going to run, period. That does not give the police the right to use deadly force. The autopsy released today indicates Hammond was shot from the driver's side of the car, meaning the officer wasn't in danger.

 

[tazki]

That's simply not realistic. Suspects are going to run, period. That does not give the police the right to use deadly force. The autopsy released today indicates Hammond was shot from the driver's side of the car, meaning the officer wasn't in danger.

Yes it is the point RH. Sorry you disagree.

 

[Raising Heel]

Yes it is the point RH. Sorry you disagree.

What's the point? That suspects shouldn't resist? Well I'm not going to resist, and you're not going to resist, but somebody eventually will. The question then is what training do the police receive to deal with those situations? And why do so many of them feel the most reasonable course of action is to take the someone's life, especially over such trivial offenses? Nobody deserves to die over selling loose cigarettes or possessing 10 oz. of marijuana. Whether the problem is growing or whether more cases are simply making it into the news, it's an issue that needs to be addressed.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Cops are out of control in this country. And exactly like RH said, they are out of control regardless of the suspect's skin color. THAT is the issue, NOT effing racism. Seriously, we're getting to a point where it's spiraling out of control. Because of social media and how these stories continue to make the rounds, it's going to form people's opinion of cops and it's going to get to the point where no one trusts or respects police.

I hate government spending but we need a complete overhaul of police at every level. Now all officers have body cameras at some precincts??? F***ing brilliant. That's only going to cost....oh I don't know... a f*** ton to operate and maintain. Maybe pour that money, instead, into better training or better yet, into better salaries so that better candidates sign up to be cops instead of some of the low-life numbskulls like ones in these news stories who are just looking for an excuse to get off on a power trip and order some people around (or shoot them).

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Yes, I know it is a difficult job, but it's also a vital one and one that society cannot afford to be screwed up. There's no room for mistakes. This is why they need to be paid more, in a perfect world. Let the marketplace do its thing. Improve salaries, get better candidates, improve "service."

Start with CHPD. Am I right, @UNC71-00 ?

 

[willbill01]

Maybe pour that money, instead, into better training or better yet, into better salaries so that better candidates sign up to be cops instead of some of the low-life numbskulls like ones in these news stories who are just looking for an excuse to get off on a power trip and order some people around (or shoot them).

I've said the entire time to raise the minimum education to a 4 year degree, maybe Associates and minimum salary to $50,000. You will see an entirely different and much better suited candidate.

 

[UNC71-00]

Yes, I know it is a difficult job, but it's also a vital one and one that society cannot afford to be screwed up. There's no room for mistakes. This is why they need to be paid more, in a perfect world. Let the marketplace do its thing. Improve salaries, get better candidates, improve "service."

Start with CHPD. Am I right, @UNC71-00 ?

Lol.

This is the position that we all should take: Cops suck, period. If you have to deal with one, you better kiss his ass and hope for the best all the while realizing that he will screw you over.

Now I know that there are plenty of exceptions, but not nearly enough to take any other position than the cop is out to get you however he can.

 

[UNC71-00]

Yes it is the point RH. Sorry you disagree.

What is the point? That cops can kill people who resist arrest?

 

[jcolucci]

damn, this makes me want to go out and break windows and steal TV's, sneakers and stuff.

 

[uncboy10]

The impact of authority on human psychology is well documented. Very few people have the right temperament and proper education to not abuse authority. The Stanford Prison Experiment is probably the most notable experiment and I would suggest reading up on it if you never have. That being said you cannot expect highly qualified candidates to want or take a job for 30k/year when they would have other options.

This issue is one of the best current representations of the problems with identity politics. Most Americans already have their minds made up on these cases before the evidence ever comes to light. Unwarranted police brutality should never be tolerated no matter who the victim is. And you sure as hell shouldn't have to concede your rights as an American out of fear for police officers. Its downright unintelligent to not demand our police officers be accountable for their actions. Yet because of the way this issue is politicized in the media, people still manage to divide themselves over it.

A kid gets shot by a police officer over a freakin' plant and you think Obama is the problem? Someone's child, or brother is dead and you're pissed off about the "Black Lives Matter" (too) movement?... I think your priorities could use some work.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

The impact of authority on human psychology is well documented. Very few people have the right temperament and proper education to not abuse authority. The Stanford Prison Experiment is probably the most notable experiment and I would suggest reading up on it if you never have.

Yes, read up on this because it is fascinating -- we learned about it in Psych 101 at Carolina. However, do not watch the movie "The Experiment," based off this because it is insanely Hollywood-ized lol.

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

Stop me if you've heard this one before: there are conflicting versions of the events that led to the teen's death.

The official police report never mentioned the two gunshots that killed Hammond on July 26 in a Hardees parking lot.

Police say the officer was a victim of “attempted murder” by Hammond, who was driving the vehicle. According to Seneca Police Chief John Covington, Hammond was driving the car “toward the officer” who was trying to make the stop. The officer fired twice, striking Hammond in the shoulder and torso.

On Wednesday, Hammond’s family released the results of a private autopsy, which concluded that both bullets entered Hammond’s body from the back.

The county coroner didn't specify the direction from which the bullets entered his body. Makes you wonder.

All this from an undercover drug sting for 10 grams of marijuana. First of all, it's ludicrous that the police would even go to such lengths for a misdemeanor with a $200 maximum fine. And the police report certainly sounds suspect as well.

In case you're wondering why you haven't heard about this incident yet, it might be because Hammond was white. Where's the ACLU? Where's the front page media? The unjustified use of lethal force by police is obviously the bigger issue here, but it's worth noting that the problem isn't necessarily racially motivated. Conflating the two issues is one of the biggest obstacles to addressing either in a meaningful way.

Haven't heard a peep about it... til now.

 

[tazki]

Not one person on this board was there. None of us know what happened but the culture of today convicts the cop at the start. Like I said, don't run from them and this never happens. And "boy" you are so lost.

 

[uncboy10]

Not one person on this board was there. None of us know what happened but the culture of today convicts the cop at the start. Like I said, don't run from them and this never happens. And "boy" you are so lost.

Hope that fact condom isn't on too tight. We'd all hate for it to cut off the circulation to that magnificent brain of yours...

 

[Baby Debo]

Same script, different victim.

 

[UNC71-00]

The impact of authority on human psychology is well documented. Very few people have the right temperament and proper education to not abuse authority. The Stanford Prison Experiment is probably the most notable experiment and I would suggest reading up on it if you never have. That being said you cannot expect highly qualified candidates to want or take a job for 30k/year when they would have other options.

This issue is one of the best current representations of the problems with identity politics. Most Americans already have their minds made up on these cases before the evidence ever comes to light. Unwarranted police brutality should never be tolerated no matter who the victim is. And you sure as hell shouldn't have to concede your rights as an American out of fear for police officers. Its downright unintelligent to not demand our police officers be accountable for their actions. Yet because of the way this issue is politicized in the media, people still manage to divide themselves over it.

A kid gets shot by a police officer over a freakin' plant and you think Obama is the problem? Someone's child, or brother is dead and you're pissed off about the "Black Lives Matter" (too) movement?... I think your priorities could use some work.

The reason Obama is the problem is that he only comments on white cop brutality on black citizens.

 

[UNC71-00]

Not one person on this board was there. None of us know what happened but the culture of today convicts the cop at the start. Like I said, don't run from them and this never happens. And "boy" you are so lost.

Right. Stay right where you are and when the cop searches you and only finds a quarter bag, remain calm and seated while the cop goes back to his car and gets a bag of crack to put in your car so that he can then arrest you for that too.

The guy was shot in the back. Anyone who defends the cop here is so far out in right field that he might as well not be in the game.

 

[Raising Heel]

The reason Obama is the problem is that he only comments on white cop brutality on black citizens.

Correct. I should have added him in the OP, along with the media and the ACLU. All they do is politicize the issue, which only creates noise that distracts from the underlying problem.

 

[Heels in Space]

The reason Obama is the problem is that he only comments on white cop brutality on black citizens.

Obama, like any president, comments on what he is asked about. He doesn't make unsolicited speeches about isolated police brutality incidents; he is asked about specific cases that are in the news. Now you can say that maybe he should decline to comment, but he would catch heat for that decision too.

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

Obama, like any president, comments on what he is asked about. He doesn't make unsolicited speeches about isolated police brutality incidents; he is asked about specific cases that are in the news. Now you can say that maybe he should decline to comment, but he would catch heat for that decision too.

Obama does more than just comment, he stokes the fires....

 

[Heels in Space]

Obama does more than just comment, he stokes the fires....

Examples of him stoking the fires?

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

Examples of him stoking the fires?

Passing judgment on these incidents before all the facts are known, witnesses have been vetted, and juries have had an opportunity to hear testimony and make their judgment... Just for starters.

 

[Heels in Space]

Passing judgment on these incidents before all the facts are known, witnesses have been vetted, and juries have had an opportunity to hear testimony and make their judgment... Just for starters.

Well, I was asking for examples. The only one that comes to mind for me is him saying that the Cambridge police acted "stupidly" in arresting Henry Gates for breaking into his own home (which I'm not sure is an unfair statement). Do you have specific instances of him "passing judgment" on racial issues or is it just something you think he does?

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

Well, I was asking for examples. The only one that comes to mind for me is him saying that the Cambridge police acted "stupidly" in arresting Henry Gates for breaking into his own home (which I'm not sure is an unfair statement). Do you have specific instances of him "passing judgment" on racial issues or is it just something you think he does?

Seriously?

 

[Heels in Space]

Seriously?

Seriously.

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

Seriously.

Ooooookay. Trayvon Martin, Ferguson, Baltimore, NY... All cases in which Obama made public statements that either outright indicted the police before they were charged or suggested the police should be indicted or otherwise suggested the police were already guilty before charges were ever brought... I'm surprised you don't know this.

 

[Heels in Space]

Ooooookay. Trayvon Martin, Ferguson, Baltimore, NY... All cases in which Obama made public statements that either outright indicted the police before they were charged or suggested the police should be indicted or otherwise suggested the police were already guilty before charges were ever brought... I'm surprised you don't know this.

Again, I'm looking for examples of things he said. But let's just take your first example. Here is the full text of Obama's response (to a question) on Trayvon Martin after the story broke. Tell me which part is "stoking the fires" or "passing judgment."

Well, I'm the head of the executive branch, and the Attorney General reports to me so I've got to be careful about my statements to make sure that we're not impairing any investigation that's taking place right now.

But obviously, this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through. And when I think about this boy, I think about my own kids. And I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this, and that everybody pulls together -- federal, state and local -- to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened.

So I'm glad that not only is the Justice Department looking into it, I understand now that the governor of the state of Florida has formed a task force to investigate what's taking place. I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how does something like this happen. And that means that we examine the laws and the context for what happened, as well as the specifics of the incident.

But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon. And I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, and that we're going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.

 

[Heels in Space]

And here's his statement on the shooting of Michael Brown. Inflammatory stuff.

The death of Michael Brown is heartbreaking, and Michelle and I send our deepest condolences to his family and his community at this very difficult time. As Attorney General Holder has indicated, the Department of Justice is investigating the situation along with local officials, and they will continue to direct resources to the case as needed. I know the events of the past few days have prompted strong passions, but as details unfold, I urge everyone in Ferguson, Missouri, and across the country, to remember this young man through reflection and understanding. We should comfort each other and talk with one another in a way that heals, not in a way that wounds. Along with our prayers, that’s what Michael and his family, and our broader American community, deserve.

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

Again, I'm looking for examples of things he said. But let's just take your first example. Here is the full text of Obama's response (to a question) on Trayvon Martin after the story broke. Tell me which part is "stoking the fires" or "passing judgment."

Well, I'm the head of the executive branch, and the Attorney General reports to me so I've got to be careful about my statements to make sure that we're not impairing any investigation that's taking place right now.

But obviously, this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through. And when I think about this boy, I think about my own kids. And I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this, and that everybody pulls together -- federal, state and local -- to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened.

So I'm glad that not only is the Justice Department looking into it, I understand now that the governor of the state of Florida has formed a task force to investigate what's taking place. I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how does something like this happen. And that means that we examine the laws and the context for what happened, as well as the specifics of the incident.

But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon. And I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, and that we're going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.

Obama's words and length of comment say it all. Why did Obama feel compelled to comment on this issue AT ALL?!?!?!?! That's the point! This case does not rise to the level that the POTUS should comment on it all! He should have said, "No comment, this is a local case with local jurisdiction. If DOJ needs to get involved it will." Period. But no, he had to go on and on and on. For Obama, his presidency is all about race and all about him. That sums it up.

 

[uncboy10]

For Nuk, his presidency is all about race and all about him. That sums it up.

Corrected.

 

[Heels in Space]

Why did Obama feel compelled to comment on this issue AT ALL?!?!?!?! That's the point!

Because he was asked a question about a case that had spawned major protests across the country and that the DOJ was already investigating. It would have been ridiculous for him to refuse to comment in those circumstances. And the statement he gave was very evenhanded. He says that "it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this" so they can "get to the bottom of exactly what happened." That's the opposite of "passing judgment." Your hatred for the man just blinds you as to what he actually said. THAT's the point.

 

[Heels in Space]

Also, you said that these were "All cases in which Obama made public statements that either outright indicted the police before they were charged or suggested the police should be indicted or otherwise suggested the police were already guilty before charges were ever brought." I'm still waiting for one single example of this.

 

[UNC71-00]

@Heels in Space

"The police acted stupidly"

 

[Heels in Space]

I already acknowledged that one.

The only one that comes to mind for me is him saying that the Cambridge police acted "stupidly" in arresting Henry Gates for breaking into his own home (which I'm not sure is an unfair statement).

That was fairly early in his presidency, and I think he realized that wasn't the best choice of words and has been much more measured since then, even when dealing with much more volatile situations.

 

[Raising Heel]

Obama, like any president, comments on what he is asked about. He doesn't make unsolicited speeches about isolated police brutality incidents; he is asked about specific cases that are in the news. Now you can say that maybe he should decline to comment, but he would catch heat for that decision too.

Is this true? Have his comments only be the result of questions from the media? I'll take you at your word and admit I've never considered that factor. If true, then I stand corrected about my earlier comments.

 

[Heels in Space]

Is this true? Have his comments only be the result of questions from the media? I'll take you at your word and admit I've never considered that factor. If true, then I stand corrected about my earlier comments.

There are examples of both. The Henry Gates and Trayvon Martin statements were responses to questions from reporters. The Michael Brown statement I quoted was a written statement released by the White House, which was understandable since an American city was basically burning to the ground.

After all, the first President Bush gave an address on the Rodney King case and said this about the video of King's beating by police: "What you saw and what I saw on the TV video was revolting. I felt anger. I felt pain. I thought: How can I explain this to my grandchildren?" So is he a race-baiter too?

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

Also, you said that these were "All cases in which Obama made public statements that either outright indicted the police before they were charged or suggested the police should be indicted or otherwise suggested the police were already guilty before charges were ever brought." I'm still waiting for one single example of this.

The comments were not the ONLY things Obama SAID and DID in the wake of these events. The ACTIONS of his administration (HOLDER) spoke more loudly than just his WORDS. So, are you denying that Obama has not exploited race for his political purposes? That would be laughable, but not unexpected.

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

Because he was asked a question about a case that had spawned major protests across the country and that the DOJ was already investigating. It would have been ridiculous for him to refuse to comment in those circumstances. And the statement he gave was very evenhanded. He says that "it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this" so they can "get to the bottom of exactly what happened." That's the opposite of "passing judgment." Your hatred for the man just blinds you as to what he actually said. THAT's the point.

If that is actually true, and I dispute it, where is his presser for the white kid that was killed by police? Where is the presser for the woman killed in SF by the illegal alien? I don't hate the man, I hate what he has done to this country because he is all about race and division. We are more divided now in this country than we ever were in the past, imo.