Post-Maui stuff...

[DSouthr]

LOL, there is death, taxes, and Jung/Nate calling for UNC to shoot more treys! In this life, those 3 things you can depend on! LOL

 

[DSouthr]

As maybe the only person here who watches equal amounts of college basketball and the NBA, there's really nothing that UNC does that mimicks a modern NBA offense. NBA offenses are usually triggered through a skilled big guy or a wing. NBA teams are very rarely absolutely dependent on their PG1 like UNC has been for the last 20 years or so. UNC's bigs aren't skilled enough to pass or handle (at least they haven't shown it on tape) and their wing is 6'3".

I know the counter will be "SMALL BALL" or "TOO MANY THREES". UNC isn't even shooting that many 3's. They rank 279th in the country in 3PT rate. And of course UNC will play small ball. The bigs aren't good, lol. 47% of the Boston Celtics' points have been scored on 3s.

And on a personnel level, there isn't one NBA team that would trot out 6'1", 6'0", and 6'3" as their starting 1-3 today. They know they would get demolished. This isn't anything like an NBA team.

I've even seen more freelance this year out of UNC than last year and it's been a freaking disaster. Hubert's sets are not really like NBA sets either. Hubert has really static, college-like sets. Mark Pope runs NBA and European type sets where the action isn't static and the movement has a lot of misdirection in it. Hubert runs much more college type sets likely because it's easier to run at this level.

I think this is rapidly becoming a "playing the results" analysis. If UNC is playing well and winning a lot... Clearly it's because they're playing UNC basketball! If not, clearly they're playing too much like an NBA team!

Despite all that, UNC's offense is top 10 nationally in offensive efficiency. So clearly running the secondary break probably wouldn't make this already fairly elite offense that much better. The offense hasn't been a problem for the most part. And that's considering UNC isn't shooting nearly as many 3s as it should be factoring in their personnel.

And of course this team will struggle defensively. They're really freaking small and they have really limited bigs. They're right now like 60th in the country in defensive efficiency. If you had all the UNC run-and-jump and multiple defenses that you could possibly dream of, what do you think they would be defensively? Maybe top 40? That's certainly better, but it's nowhere near where it needs to be if you think this is a Final Four caliber team. In the NBA, when a team has a really tiny backcourt, they immediately acquire a rim protector big. UNC has a really tiny backcourt and 0 consistent rim protection.

It's just a lazy connection. And made by those who don't watch the NBA. UNC doesn't play like an NBA team. In fact, if they did, more of you would be pissed off because UNC would never shoot a 2, lol.

TLDR:
The coach should be a schemer and not a scheme. I think it's moronic to think this personnel group can run the traditional UNC offense with any consistency. I also think it's moronic that Hubert's sets are as static as they are for this personnel group. Your scheme has to fit your personnel group. So the coach has 2 options. Number one, he adjusts his scheme to fit his personnel group. Or number two, he recruits exclusively to his scheme.

LOL, in a funny way you did hit on a lot of the problem but not in how you intended. Sure you can play the way the NBA does when and ONLY WHEN, you have the talent the NBA does to play it with. When you try to play like the NBA does with college level talent the bed gets real wet. The point folks are making is that UNC nor any NCAA program for that matter, has the across the board talent that every NBA team has.

Hubert is trying to play "position-less" basketball with players that not able to play "position-less", see 5 out, see switching all 5 as 2 examples. But yeah, they should just shoot more treys right? LOL

 

[DSouthr]

My $0.02, Hubert may be a good coach but he is not adaptive. When he came on board I seem to recall him saying that he wanted to play 4 around 1. I took that to mean he was looking have a traditional post and 4 shooters surrounding. That works IF you can get a true stretch 4 who can guard an opposing big. We got Manek and then Ingram for that role in the portal but doesn't seem like any have been recruited for that slot. If they were they sat so much first year they transferred.

This season UNC has a very limited frontcourt, both in terms of size and talent. The result is that the 3 best players are all guards with two being undersized. The best freshmen are also best suited to play the 2/3 slots. If Hubert wants to play a certain style he needs to recruit that way. This is where the NIL/portal nightmare is biting the Heels. Ideally Washington would be that stretch big but he needs a big who can be the physical force inside to do so.

In my opinion this roster is built to play small and FAST. They need to push tempo to create enough extra possessions to offset the half court set weaknesses. I do not mean Arkansas or UNLV of the 90's full court defense but the defense needs to be aggressive and try to force turnovers or at least take an opponent out of their comfort zone.

Whoever you blame for the current roster it ain't going to change. The staff needs to create a game plan that emphasizes the talent on the roster, not continue to use the same style they did when Bacot was in the middle and there were consistent shooters spacing the floor.

I am just so grateful Cadeau did not go to dook. Put him on the court running an offense with that talent would be scary.

I have felt for a very long time that JWash is more of a 4 than a 5, kind of in the Jawad like mold where JWit seems more a under sized 5 than a 4, even thou he has hit some treys this season. I would switch those 2 guys positions and bring Lubin in to back up both spots. I would like to see a few more minutes from James Brown, I saw something in the few minutes he has played so far, there could be a player hiding behind all that lack of experience.

 

[NathanFielder]

LOL, in a funny way you did hit on a lot of the problem but not in how you intended. Sure you can play the way the NBA does when and ONLY WHEN, you have the talent the NBA does to play it with. When you try to play like the NBA does with college level talent the bed gets real wet. The point folks are making is that UNC nor any NCAA program for that matter, has the across the board talent that every NBA team has.

Hubert is trying to play "position-less" basketball with players that not able to play "position-less", see 5 out, see switching all 5 as 2 examples. But yeah, they should just shoot more treys right? LOL

It's just not true. Mark Pope runs a "5-out" or pro style spread offense without NBA guys and he's had an offense that works due to player movement and misdirection. And maybe it's only a coincidence that Kentucky is a good 3PT shooting team and happens to take 43% of their shots from 3. Hmmmm, what a novel concept. Kentucky has more size in the perimeter and that gives them flexibility. But they're not really close to NBA players.

And I'm not saying anything about Hubert's defense. I've never been a fan of how UNC has defended ball screens dating back to the Tyler Hansbrough years. I'm focusing more on the offensive criticism focused on this team because they don't play a traditional UNC style offense.

While this team obviously has a starting lineup issue, I'm not even all that concerned with the offense production. The offense has been good for the most part. I do absolutely think they should be shooting more 3s. This team is shooting almost 38% from 3 and their highest volume shooter has been abysmal. At least 2/5 of this team's shots should be 3s. That's their strength offensively whether people want it to be or not.

Also, I don't think this team is all that good to begin with. When you're not good, you're going to usually have to find more offense from 3 and the FT line to neutralize your disadvantages. So yes, to me, that means shooting more 3s. Especially if you can't offensive rebound, which team has shown a complete inability to offensive rebound through the beginning of the season.

 

[al would]

The best freshmen are also best suited to play the 2/3 slots.

Hard to argue with that but I continue to make the argument for Seth at the 2, Jack on the wing w/Drake at the 4 on at least an experimental basis. And I think Wash as a stretch 5 might work to open up the middle for drives and kick outs but wtf do I know. That's also a better defensive line-up which wouldn't take much with what we've seen so far. At least there is a ton more athleticism on the floor with that group.

 

[gary-7]

As maybe the only person here who watches equal amounts of college basketball and the NBA, there's really nothing that UNC does that mimicks a modern NBA offense. NBA offenses are usually triggered through a skilled big guy or a wing. NBA teams are very rarely absolutely dependent on their PG1 like UNC has been for the last 20 years or so. UNC's bigs aren't skilled enough to pass or handle (at least they haven't shown it on tape) and their wing is 6'3".

I know the counter will be "SMALL BALL" or "TOO MANY THREES". UNC isn't even shooting that many 3's. They rank 279th in the country in 3PT rate. And of course UNC will play small ball. The bigs aren't good, lol. 47% of the Boston Celtics' points have been scored on 3s.

And on a personnel level, there isn't one NBA team that would trot out 6'1", 6'0", and 6'3" as their starting 1-3 today. They know they would get demolished. This isn't anything like an NBA team.

I've even seen more freelance this year out of UNC than last year and it's been a freaking disaster. Hubert's sets are not really like NBA sets either. Hubert has really static, college-like sets. Mark Pope runs NBA and European type sets where the action isn't static and the movement has a lot of misdirection in it. Hubert runs much more college type sets likely because it's easier to run at this level.

I think this is rapidly becoming a "playing the results" analysis. If UNC is playing well and winning a lot... Clearly it's because they're playing UNC basketball! If not, clearly they're playing too much like an NBA team!

Despite all that, UNC's offense is top 10 nationally in offensive efficiency. So clearly running the secondary break probably wouldn't make this already fairly elite offense that much better. The offense hasn't been a problem for the most part. And that's considering UNC isn't shooting nearly as many 3s as it should be factoring in their personnel.

And of course this team will struggle defensively. They're really freaking small and they have really limited bigs. They're right now like 60th in the country in defensive efficiency. If you had all the UNC run-and-jump and multiple defenses that you could possibly dream of, what do you think they would be defensively? Maybe top 40? That's certainly better, but it's nowhere near where it needs to be if you think this is a Final Four caliber team. In the NBA, when a team has a really tiny backcourt, they immediately acquire a rim protector big. UNC has a really tiny backcourt and 0 consistent rim protection.

It's just a lazy connection. And made by those who don't watch the NBA. UNC doesn't play like an NBA team. In fact, if they did, more of you would be pissed off because UNC would never shoot a 2, lol.

TLDR:
The coach should be a schemer and not a scheme. I think it's moronic to think this personnel group can run the traditional UNC offense with any consistency. I also think it's moronic that Hubert's sets are as static as they are for this personnel group. Your scheme has to fit your personnel group. So the coach has 2 options. Number one, he adjusts his scheme to fit his personnel group. Or number two, he recruits exclusively to his scheme.

Sorry you wasted that many keystrokes for no good reason. There was nothing "lazy" about the connection I made, which BTW had little to do with that overblown, specious filibuster.

To say that what little you offer on this team is flawed is an understatement for the ages. And frankly, you can take that "playing the results" garbage and stick it where the sun don't shine.

 

[gary-7]

LOL, in a funny way you did hit on a lot of the problem but not in how you intended. Sure you can play the way the NBA does when and ONLY WHEN, you have the talent the NBA does to play it with. When you try to play like the NBA does with college level talent the bed gets real wet. The point folks are making is that UNC nor any NCAA program for that matter, has the across the board talent that every NBA team has.

Hubert is trying to play "position-less" basketball with players that not able to play "position-less", see 5 out, see switching all 5 as 2 examples. But yeah, they should just shoot more treys right? LOL

D, I'm starting to SMH and regret starting this thread, so I'll depart it with this:
Hard to tell what might get tweaked between now and Weds, but there are two things that can and should easily be implemented:
1. Come out multiple in defense --- just mixing in some 30 and 40 with different pickup points changes the dynamic and predictability, as they are triggered off our base 20.
And 2, on offense get the ball to JWash in offensive positions looking to score --- PnPs and mid-post entries --- to force all five defenders to guard someone instead of playing de facto one-man Zones or blitzing our ball-handler.

 

[DSouthr]

It's just not true. Mark Pope runs a "5-out" or pro style spread offense without NBA guys and he's had an offense that works due to player movement and misdirection. And maybe it's only a coincidence that Kentucky is a good 3PT shooting team and happens to take 43% of their shots from 3. Hmmmm, what a novel concept. Kentucky has more size in the perimeter and that gives them flexibility. But they're not really close to NBA players.

And I'm not saying anything about Hubert's defense. I've never been a fan of how UNC has defended ball screens dating back to the Tyler Hansbrough years. I'm focusing more on the offensive criticism focused on this team because they don't play a traditional UNC style offense.

While this team obviously has a starting lineup issue, I'm not even all that concerned with the offense production. The offense has been good for the most part. I do absolutely think they should be shooting more 3s. This team is shooting almost 38% from 3 and their highest volume shooter has been abysmal. At least 2/5 of this team's shots should be 3s. That's their strength offensively whether people want it to be or not.

Also, I don't think this team is all that good to begin with. When you're not good, you're going to usually have to find more offense from 3 and the FT line to neutralize your disadvantages. So yes, to me, that means shooting more 3s. Especially if you can't offensive rebound, which team has shown a complete inability to offensive rebound through the beginning of the season.

So have you ordered your 10,000 Big Blue Natty t-shirts yet, lined up your tattoo artist for your 40-0 Kentucky tattoo? Surely they are your PERFECT team, they shoot all those treys AND they like 5 out?

Now of course, you have every right to believe a 5 out offense for NCAA teams is the perfect attack, maybe they will work on that % of treys they take for ya, so your Ky love can reach higher levels!

But this is a discussion of UNC and the team UNC has right now, in the event you didn't realize it. Aside from your multiple years position that all UNC needs to do is shoot a ton of treys, it isn't just defense you seem to have no comment on, you don't seem to have a rational solution to the offense either.

 

[NathanFielder]

So have you ordered your 10,000 Big Blue Natty t-shirts yet, lined up your tattoo artist for your 40-0 Kentucky tattoo? Surely they are your PERFECT team, they shoot all those treys AND they like 5 out?

Now of course, you have every right to believe a 5 out offense for NCAA teams is the perfect attack, maybe they will work on that % of treys they take for ya, so your Ky love can reach higher levels!

But this is a discussion of UNC and the team UNC has right now, in the event you didn't realize it. Aside from your multiple years position that all UNC needs to do is shoot a ton of treys, it isn't just defense you seem to have no comment on, you don't seem to have a rational solution to the offense either.

Lol. Just a useless reply.

 

[NathanFielder]

Sorry you wasted that many keystrokes for no good reason. There was nothing "lazy" about the connection I made, which BTW had little to do with that overblown, specious filibuster.

To say that what little you offer on this team is flawed is an understatement for the ages. And frankly, you can take that "playing the results" garbage and stick it where the sun don't shine.

Sorry you didn’t like the response but it’s just inaccurate to say UNC runs too much NBA action than traditional UNC stuff.

The only times I see common ground between the NBA and what UNC is running is when they isolate RJ. Hubert does this in situations UNC needs a bucket. But that’s no different than previous UNC teams going to their big guy and isolating them in similar situations. Teams will get the ball to their best offensive player.

The NBA is a matchup league. They will run action to either get their players into their best spots on the floor where they have advantages. Or they will run action where the defense will likely switch and they target the mis match of their liking.

I think I’ve seen about 5x per game where UNC gets a switch. It’s usually a guard switches on a UNC big and a big switches onto a UNC guard. In the NBA, this is either two things. The guards isolate the mismatch or the big gets the ball and they clear the side or they put the best shooter on the strong side so you can’t double.

At least 4x per game, UNC reverses the ball and allowed the defense to get back to their original matchups.

That’s not the NBA. The shot clock winds down faster and chances are you’re not getting a better matchup than that.

Maybe it’s early in the season but I don’t see this offense forcing mismatches then attacking the mismatches. They’re never going to have the man movement and misdirection that I prefer. Hubert’s sets are too static and too 2010’s for that.

Defensively. Sure try pressuring more. This team forces an alarmingly few number of turnovers per game. Will that suddenly increase significantly? Idk about that. But I would certainly try it. And honestly, if that doesn’t work, this team defensively doesn’t have a ton of options because they lack size and overall talent defending the rim.

 

[gary-7]

Sure try pressuring more.

A relevant sentence, so there's that.

 

[gary-7]

So have you ordered your 10,000 Big Blue Natty t-shirts yet, lined up your tattoo artist for your 40-0 Kentucky tattoo? Surely they are your PERFECT team, they shoot all those treys AND they like 5 out?

Now of course, you have every right to believe a 5 out offense for NCAA teams is the perfect attack, maybe they will work on that % of treys they take for ya, so your Ky love can reach higher levels!

But this is a discussion of UNC and the team UNC has right now, in the event you didn't realize it. Aside from your multiple years position that all UNC needs to do is shoot a ton of treys, it isn't just defense you seem to have no comment on, you don't seem to have a rational solution to the offense either.

 

[Quest4Seven]

We have the returning ACC POY in his 5th season, a sophomore PG who was the top PG in his class, and 2 freshmen who were top 10 recruits and will likely end up being 1st round picks. And were arguing Hubert doesnt have enough talent to win. LOL

 

[gary-7]

We have the returning ACC POY in his 5th season, a sophomore PG who was the top PG in his class, and 2 freshmen who were top 10 recruits and will likely end up being 1st round picks. And were arguing Hubert doesnt have enough talent to win. LOL

First, anyone saying we don't have enough talent to win is simply wrong, but there ARE legit issues as to how that talent is distributed across the roster. It's not as dire as some make it out to be, but for obvious example, this is a roster that doesn't have a board-cleaner like Mando or a wealth of physicality in the trenches.

Second, to say that Hubert can't coach is also wrong, BUT he faces challenges as to how to best deploy that talent (there are precious few rosters with which you can just roll out the ball and win 25 games) whlle covering deficiencies. There are ways to do that, and if he does not make effective moves, well, then it is fair to criticize.

In other words, the discussion shouldn't be binary. It is nuanced. And December is typically when adjustments to approach are made. Other than basic corrections, I dunno how much or what will be changed before Weds, but I have no problem saying there defintiely needs to be some made by January...

 

[NathanFielder]

A relevant sentence, so there's that.

Appreciate your approval.

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I wouldn't watch a 23 PT game in the 4th quarter either. I wouldn't watch a 23 PT college game with 10 minutes remaining either.

Also, what's the point of this? I saw 4 missed wide open 3's off good quality action and a missed open 3 footer off quality action in a 2:00 clip.

If UNC's half court offense got 4 wide open 3s and a wide open 3 footer in a span of 2:00, then I'd be pretty happy with the offensive execution apart from finishing.