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Quick stuff (Barton Exhibition)...

gary-7

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Jan 27, 2003
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...and I decided not to keep my normal stats, given the helter-skelter nature of the personnel and knowing Roy would be mixing and matching. For this one I was most concerned with positions, and "look", i.e., how well were guys fitting into the system and executing on both ends.

Positions:
-The starting lineup of 7th/Theo/Cam/Luke/Garrison was a bit of a surprise, but then again it wasn't (see below).
- 7th and Jalek played exclusively at PG, covering all the minutes there between them
- Theo played 2 and 3 with a couple of rotations at the 4
- Cam played the 3 with a few rotations at the 4
- Luke played mostly 4, with two second-half rotations at the 5 in our Small lineup.
- Kenny played the 2 and 3
- BRob played the 2 and 3
- Garrison played mostly 5, with stints at the 4 when in with Manley or Huff
- Andrew played exclusively at the 2
- Manley and Huffman played exclusively at the 5
- Walker played the 5 and some 4 when in with Manley or Huff

Stuff:
- I suspect that switching up the Wings in the starting lineup had a lot to do with compensating for JB being out, i.e., Theo moving back to the 2 to provide a play-making safety blanket for 7th. I was told before JB's injury to expect the starting lineup at Memphis to continue to the regular season, which made total sense... and watching tonight's game did nothing to change that.

- We were generally miserable defensively, and that starts with the fact that the ringleader (and only PG that Ds up worth a damn) was wearing a cast on the bench. Also, our frosh Bigs were usually late or out of position in Help-D. Huff's Blocks were nice but he was as guilty as the rest in positioning

- There's little doubt why Brooks is starting, but Manley had a productive first half and Huff came on stronger in the second. Also, as i've said before, it's a shame Walker isn't more physically ready --- he is very skilled

- Luke was the best player on the floor Friday night. And Theo was Theo, and his shooting stroke looks much better.

- Roy tried out going with two Freshman Bigs in the game a lot in the second half. Probably won't be seeing that much if at all in the regular season.

- Honestly, the best we "looked", i.e., looked like an actual Carolina team, was when Jalek was in with any two of Kenny, Theo or Platek at the Wings.The spacing was strong, the Passing Game functioned right and we were more efficient.

- Bless his heart, but watching 7th play PG is still painful. Although he's keeping his balance better on defense, on offense the spacing and decision-making issues just haven't improved.

Disappointments:
- The crowd. C'mon, Heel fans.

- BRob - didn't quite show the improved court presence I hoped he would

- Cam - I'm not at all concerned the he had an off shooting night --- that will come. The biggest early questions are about the other things. He was ok in transition but frankly he's still a bit lost in half-court in the Passing Game and defensively he just wasn't good at all, and we're gonna need more of a board presence from him.

Finally:
A couple of posters astutely pointed out this week that we shouldn't expect things to go smoothly with JB out. Indeed, it's impossible to overstate how much better we are when Little Dog is on the floor, and that's been true since he stepped on campus. It's certainly not comforting to see Barton's coach calling TO after cutting it to 11 with just under a minute to go --- he wasn'tjust preparing his team for close games --- they were technically still in it. Let's just say I'm definitely glad we're getting an additional exhibition!

Tonight 7th and Jalek got 19 and 21 mnutes respectively. When UNI comes to Chapel Hill I certainly hope Jalek starts and gets 30 minutes, and I would like to see the Memphis starting lineup (minus JB of course). I really feel Cam will serve best as instant offense off the bench as he adjusts to what's expected of him. Ironically, he had his best offensive output tonight whilst he was playing the 4, which is encouraging as he expands his game.

Anyway, it was a first game for many of our guys in front of a crowd and a lot of nerves and mixing-and-matching was going on so I'm not gonna worry about things like FT% yet... or who had an off shooting night. It is however important that we establish an early continuity of playing sound Carolina Basketball on both ends before JB comes back --- if we do that we'll be fine. IMO that will be best accomplished with Kenny, Theo and Luke anchoring things.
 
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Hi gary-7, thanks

!!!!!!!!!!!! GO TAR HEELS !!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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The defense was absolutely terrible. The scary thing is that UNC was playing a Division 3 school with mostly freshman.

Manley needs to work hard to improve his defense under the basket. If he works on this he can be a force by his junior year. The kid is a solid 7 footer and is a great free throw shooter. Not surprised that he hit his free throws last night. He was 16-16 in a high school game last year.

Huffman can be a defensive a force by his junior year. Sort of reminds me of Patrick Ewing "without" offensive skills.

I can't figure out Kenny. There is no way he should be shooting air balls at this stage of his career.

Very impressed with Luke, the Bird. With Berry in the line-up, he may be the leading scorer on the team this season.

Bottom line, this is an NIT team without Berry.
 
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My question for those that saw the game...How did the rebounding look? The box score is nice, looks like we made our presence felt. But do you believe those numbers are inflated because of the young and small competition, or did we show that we are capable of out-rebounding teams again?
 
Embarrassing that we lost the 2nd half. Not all due to odd lineups. We showed much less energy in the 2nd half. Except Huffman.

A number of good defensive stretches in the first half. Dismal in the 2nd half. Yes, yes, Barton shot better in the first half, but they did so despite some good defensive energy. Woods and Boykin were hot early. Then cooled. I'd like to think it was our D, but I suspect they just got tired. How Stenborg got loose for drives so often is something I'd want to take a hard look at on replay. He cooled off eventually. Was that because we made a defensive adjustment?

In short, while we have a lot of work to do on D, I saw intensity from several of our guys that will serve us well going forward.
 
Kenny Williams will be fine he missed a significant portion of the off season again because of his knee. Give the kid a break sheesh

What are you talking about? I'm simply asking where in the world people are seeing him as a necessary starter(such as in the op's post). I mean really-last night injury or not he showed pretty much what we've seen out of him for 2 years-very pedestrian play. Yet o continue to read how he has to be on the court. I find it puzzling,
 
Theo said he was a pretty tough matchup.

Our guys have a great deal of work this week, we will improve by steps not leaps and bounds.
What pleases me is that this team like our last two, care about each other and the TEAM success. Got to love the character of these players, no not a character in a Theo sense but I'll take his character all day. :cool:
 
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My question for those that saw the game...How did the rebounding look? The box score is nice, looks like we made our presence felt. But do you believe those numbers are inflated because of the young and small competition, or did we show that we are capable of out-rebounding teams again?

Maybe rebounded quite well, but as you say it was against a division 2 school who had zero size. No one else really stood out on the boards.
 
Man what is the obsession with Kenny Williams?
There are some that have an inflated perception of who he is. Right now, he is a defensive specialist and that is who he is. Maybe his offensive game comes around eventually but there has been nothing in two years to justify that he is a reliable shooter. I think he is what he is unless something really changes for him and there is nothing wrong with that. His defensive skill set will be needed but I'd caution anyone relying on point production from him.
 
The defense was absolutely terrible. The scary thing is that UNC was playing a Division 3 school with mostly freshman.
Bottom line, this is an NIT team without Berry.

When did Barton drop down to D3?

"Barton will enter the exhibition off a 20-10 campaign in 2016-17. The Bulldogs return nine players from that team, including three players who started at least 20 games last year. Among the returnees is sophomore guard Michael Boykin, the 2016-17 Conference Carolinas Freshman of the Year and team's second-leading scorer (13.1 ppg)".

Source: Barton Men's Basketball
 
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My question for those that saw the game...How did the rebounding look? The box score is nice, looks like we made our presence felt. But do you believe those numbers are inflated because of the young and small competition, or did we show that we are capable of out-rebounding teams again?
I did NOT think the rebounding looked all that great. Barton was so much smaller that I wouldn't read too much into it honestly.

I would like to see the Memphis starting lineup (minus JB of course). I
Who started in the Memphis game?

Bottom line, this is an NIT team without Berry.
It was a poor first showing, but I say we give them another couple games before we castigate them to the NIT. If we play the same way in the next exhibition and then the UNI game, then yes I'll be alarmed too.
 
What are you talking about? I'm simply asking where in the world people are seeing him as a necessary starter(such as in the op's post). I mean really-last night injury or not he showed pretty much what we've seen out of him for 2 years-very pedestrian play. Yet o continue to read how he has to be on the court. I find it puzzling,
Without reiterating the subtleties the team functions better on both ends with him in.
 
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What are you talking about? I'm simply asking where in the world people are seeing him as a necessary starter(such as in the op's post). I mean really-last night injury or not he showed pretty much what we've seen out of him for 2 years-very pedestrian play. Yet o continue to read how he has to be on the court. I find it puzzling,
Yeah, I like Kenny and he is definitely valuable on D, but he needs to take shots and hit them. Still too timid offensively.

I wonder if he (and maybe Cam, too) are having trouble because Roy's system doesn't really work too much to get wings open. Justin accomplished that by moving well without the ball - which I didn't see from Cam at Pitt or yesterday - and by having a fairly quick release. Kenny has a nice high release, but might not be quick enough?

Either way, I hope to see both Kenny and Cam looking stronger from deep. Not worried about Cam (yet), but am about Kenny.

Having Berry as another threat on the floor could make it easier on Kenny and Cam. But with Berry on the floor, one of them probably loses PT. Right now, that looks like Kenny.
 
Having just said that Roy's system doesn't work too hard to get wings open, let me now contradict myself a bit and point out that a few times we made the extra pass to the open guy. Looked good. We should do more of that. That will be especially good for guys like Cam and Kenny. Maybe for Joel, too.
 
Seriously? SMDH.

I mean yes, seriously. If anything he played well beneath what he usually does, which is an average college basketball player. You saying he played a good all around game is almost blatantly off the mark. I get that you like him and see his potential, which I respect. But the ACTUAL on the court performance of Kenny has been something else entirely.
 
Yeah, I like Kenny and he is definitely valuable on D, but he needs to take shots and hit them. Still too timid offensively.

I wonder if he (and maybe Cam, too) are having trouble because Roy's system doesn't really work too much to get wings open. Justin accomplished that by moving well without the ball - which I didn't see from Cam at Pitt or yesterday - and by having a fairly quick release. Kenny has a nice high release, but might not be quick enough?

Either way, I hope to see both Kenny and Cam looking stronger from deep. Not worried about Cam (yet), but am about Kenny.

Having Berry as another threat on the floor could make it easier on Kenny and Cam. But with Berry on the floor, one of them probably loses PT. Right now, that looks like Kenny.

Idk, there may be some merit to what you say about the system, but weve had plenty of wings flourish here.. Barnes, Ellington, greene, Jackson.. Of course these guys are on a totally different talent level than Cam or Kenny.
 
Decent lead at half turns into a 25 point win if he coaches to win in a regular game.. Berry Plays 35 point win Not worried..
 
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Im certainly not panicking yet, but I cant remember the last time a team in one of these exhibitions hung as close as those guys did last night. Even without JB, we should be able to dispose of a severely overmatched size wise division 2 team by at least 20 points, even with playing the whole roster.
 
I have to re-watch this game and focus on certain aspects, for now all I have are initial impressions. Right off what I noticed was Barton hit a lot of long treys that kept them some what closer in the first half and our outside shooting was pretty bad. I didn't on first pass feel our back court defense was all that bad, we seemed to force a lot of bad shots but they went in. AS for 7th, he needs to hit those free throws, that was pretty ugly but I didn't see reason to dump on him and when Jalek came in he showed us he is a UNC freshman playing in his first game in front of Tar Heel fans. I felt Roy made the better call to bring Jalek off the bench.

Theo at the 2 is not the look I love and Kenny was really rusty at the 2, would have liked to see more BRob at the 2 and some Jalek at the 2 with 7th. I like Theo much more at the 3, think it cuts down on some of those long treys that I prefer him not be taking. Cam off the bench to back up Theo and bring offensive fire off the bench with BRob spending more (read as all) his time at the 2 I like more. I was surprised it took Huffman so long to get in to the game, it was pretty deep in to that first half if I recall correctly, very surprised Roy went to Manley before Huff. Of course this was an exhibition game and Roy thru some really strange combos out there. MIller just is not ready to produce, the kid will be a player before he is done but for now (read as this season) the kid isn't ready.

Luke was solid, the size matchups didn't hurt him in this one, Love his actively looking for pick roll ops, he pulled several of those last night. Brooks I felt had a good offensive outing and snag near double digit rebes I think, think he needs to really work on finding his block out assignment but solid for his first game. Huff had a nice stat line but this was not a big team so I am not going to read to much in to those 5 shot blocks but the kid does try to block out hard. Like I have said about him, it may not be pretty but it don't have to be pretty if it works! Free throw shooting fellas, that was ugly, that was real ugly but that is kinda what this game was, just a ugly game.

Maybe a touch disappointed in that we have had more practices this year than years past but not sure that reflected in crispness. Of course, so many different lineups and mixing in so many freshmen usually does look ugly for a while. This season is just going to be a process of gradual improvements and hopefully late season we may have something solid. This was a great game for Roy to be able to use and I think a great game for our inexperienced guys to learn from so it served its purpose.
 
I think we all have to remember that this mostly a young team, so it's important to not get to high or low based on what we see during games. There will be times when we think it can't get worse, and then the team will show improvement. And there will come a point when we think the guys have finally figured things out, and then some unexpected stumbling blocks come up. It happens. We just have to be patient and trust that Roy will have the team ready when the games matter most. We also have to remember that we are the defending National Champions, the NCAA investigation is over, and best of all, we are fans of the North Carolina Tar Heels - the premier college basketball program in this sport.
 
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I mean yes, seriously. If anything he played well beneath what he usually does, which is an average college basketball player. You saying he played a good all around game is almost blatantly off the mark. I get that you like him and see his potential, which I respect. But the ACTUAL on the court performance of Kenny has been something else entirely.

Kenny's play is something else I have to re=watch to make sure my initial impression was correct but my initial feeling is he was really rusty on both ends of the court and really rusty does not mean good nor great on either end.

lets dose some reality in here, this is what Roy does in exhibitions, especially those where he has a ton of inexperienced players. Roy thru in cray combinations last night just to see how they would work and to give some kids some exposure. Really, I don't wee Walker or Platek getting nearly the minutes they got last night. Had Roy wanted to go to a more real game rotation we would have won by a much larger margin but this game was about teaching more than winning big.
 
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Yeah, I like Kenny and he is definitely valuable on D, but he needs to take shots and hit them. Still too timid offensively.

I wonder if he (and maybe Cam, too) are having trouble because Roy's system doesn't really work too much to get wings open. Justin accomplished that by moving well without the ball - which I didn't see from Cam at Pitt or yesterday - and by having a fairly quick release. Kenny has a nice high release, but might not be quick enough?

Either way, I hope to see both Kenny and Cam looking stronger from deep. Not worried about Cam (yet), but am about Kenny.

Having Berry as another threat on the floor could make it easier on Kenny and Cam. But with Berry on the floor, one of them probably loses PT. Right now, that looks like Kenny.
You made some astute observations ITP, except it's not the system, it's on the player. The vast majority of our offense is the Secondary Break into the Passing Game, which is a lot of improvised movement under pre-set rules. As you said, JJ was the perfect 3-man for our system in that he was a perpetual motion machine, constantly working to get open. Wings are gonna get opportunities, they have to be aggressive and take advantage. Kenny needs to be more aggressive, and Cam still needs to get more comfortable in this offense. Both of those deficits are easily fixable.

And yes, JB being out there makes a world of difference for the other guys --- not just because of his scoring prowess, but because he knows how to move the defense and think two passes ahead. As for playing time when he comes back I highly doubt Kenny will be negatively affected. That will most likely be 7th.
 
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Kenny's play is something else I have to re=watch to make sure my initial impression was correct but my initial feeling is he was really rusty on both ends of the court and really rusty does not mean good nor great on either end.

lets dose some reality in here, this is what Roy does in exhibitions, especially those where he has a ton of inexperienced players. Roy thru in cray combinations last night just to see how they would work and to give some kids some exposure. Really, I don't wee Walker or Platek getting nearly the minutes they got last night. Had Roy wanted to go to a more real game rotation we would have won by a much larger margin but this game was about teaching more than winning big.

I agree, Roy does do this in exhibitions. Its still a tad alarming how close this ended up. As I said in years past he does the same thing and we run a D2 team out of the gym. I too would be shocked if Platek and Miller see any meaningful minutes as we get closer to january, unless theres some severe injury problems. Nothing against some of these guys, but if our NCAA cloud had lifted say a year ago I really think some of these guys are a "pass" as far as Roy is concerned.
 
Offense was iffy, but defense was the bigger issue. Berry would help, but he wouldn't fix that.
 
Decent lead at half turns into a 25 point win if he coaches to win in a regular game.. Berry Plays 35 point win Not worried..
Exactly!
91pts in a game without JB, and when we didn't shoot particularly well is better than these people realize.
With JB we score 105-110pts, and Barton scores 65-70.

The best D2 teams can compete with and/or beat half the teams with a D1 label.
 
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I mean yes, seriously. If anything he played well beneath what he usually does, which is an average college basketball player. You saying he played a good all around game is almost blatantly off the mark. I get that you like him and see his potential, which I respect. But the ACTUAL on the court performance of Kenny has been something else entirely.
It is no such thing.
 
Last season regardless if the team was winning or losing Britt got the blunt of fan criticism and it looks like early Williams is the new poster child for unfair blame . Lame, very lame...

Is this for real? Im not "blaming" anyone for anything. Your oversensitivity is unbecoming. Certain people feel like Kenny needs and deserves a starter role and/or a ton of playing time. I completely disagree, and am simply asking for reasons why. As far as I can tell, no one is "blaming" Kenny for anything. Im sure hes giving 100 percent, his talent level is what it is.
 
Dunk, I think the comments about Kenny Williams are less about him, and more so directed at those few who come here every year telling us he’s the second coming of Wayne Ellington. He’s a good role player for us and hope the fella stays healthy, but the nonsense about who we have on this roster needs to stop. We’ve got some good pieces, just need to make them fit. Once we get Joel back, it’ll get better.
 
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It is no such thing.

His statistics and on court play kind of agree with me, sorry. Anyways obviously we arent going to agree. actually I hope you end up being Right about Kenny as it makes the team a lot better, but I have to see it to believe it.
 
Dunk, I think the comments about Kenny Williams are less about him, and more so directed at those few who come here every year telling us he’s the second coming of Wayne Ellington. He’s a good role player for us and hope the fella stays healthy, but the nonsense about who we have on this roster needs to stop. We’ve got some good pieces, just need to make them fit. Once we get Joel back, it’ll get better.

This. It appears to me that some have taken a lot of what we heard about Kenny coming out of high school and are clinging to that even though the evolving evidence on him has been very different. Hes a player that has his strengths against certain teams and with certain lineups. He is not however a high level UNC starting wing/2 guard, and I stand by that.
 
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