Dude. Enough.
Quick stuff (COC game)...
- Thread starter gary-7
- Start date
What happened after the game? I know that Caleb took the ball and dunked it and Hubert was apologizing even before the game had officially ended. Their head coach seemed ok with it as did the other assistant coaches that I saw on tv. Unless it was their one assistant who was always up and barking at everyone during the game. Also after Caleb did that we let their player go in for an uncontested layup to end the game.
Some great points and observations by all. The only thing I'd like to add is a hat tip to Leaky. His shot looks much better this season and I really could get used to him taking it to the rack with authority a lot more often !!
Ok Gary……just because you ask me nicely…..I am done venting. Now I will fire up the grill and get ready to watch Mr. Maye lead us to victory over Wake.
Hubert tried yelling at Caleb not to score that final shot, and when he did anyways, Hubert kept apologizing to the other coach for it.
I don't think I really have an issue with it. These kids are playing for awards and their future careers. While a dunk there might not mean much, they do look at averages and stats and such. Hubert also didn't have to have his starters in there. Timeout with 40 seconds left and up by like 16. Kind of on Hubert.
I also disagreed with Hubert last possession of first half putting two bigs in on D. I felt it was basically giving a 3 away.
As far as Love, obviously he shouldn't have done the pouting thing mid game. It arguably sealed the turnover there as Davis couldn't pass it back out to him later on. Love also does not pass to Davis when he should as well. We saw that on the 2 on 1 break in the first game where he refused to pass to Davis, and he noticeably does it this game also where he makes an awkward pass in order to skip Davis. Yeah, Davis doesn't pass it to him in this instance, but Davis does pass it to him a lot.
Love is a volume shooter. He shoots at a high rate. When it falls, it's great and big games. When it's not, he can shoot you out of games. Love feasted being faster than College of Charleston players on drives, but his jumper wasn't really there today. He was shooting from all over from 3 and his shots weren't really just a hair off most of the times. This is why I pointed out the inefficiency of Caleb Love last year as a shooter. Caleb usually makes up for his inefficiency from the field by being very good at the line, but that hasn't really been there this year so much so far. If Love has a monster game, it means he usually shot the ball a ton. Thus, being petty and complaining he didn't get the ball once is kinda silly in the larger picture because he obviously is getting the ball a lot or is isoing a lot.
I don't think I really have an issue with it. These kids are playing for awards and their future careers. While a dunk there might not mean much, they do look at averages and stats and such. Hubert also didn't have to have his starters in there. Timeout with 40 seconds left and up by like 16. Kind of on Hubert.
I also disagreed with Hubert last possession of first half putting two bigs in on D. I felt it was basically giving a 3 away.
As far as Love, obviously he shouldn't have done the pouting thing mid game. It arguably sealed the turnover there as Davis couldn't pass it back out to him later on. Love also does not pass to Davis when he should as well. We saw that on the 2 on 1 break in the first game where he refused to pass to Davis, and he noticeably does it this game also where he makes an awkward pass in order to skip Davis. Yeah, Davis doesn't pass it to him in this instance, but Davis does pass it to him a lot.
Love is a volume shooter. He shoots at a high rate. When it falls, it's great and big games. When it's not, he can shoot you out of games. Love feasted being faster than College of Charleston players on drives, but his jumper wasn't really there today. He was shooting from all over from 3 and his shots weren't really just a hair off most of the times. This is why I pointed out the inefficiency of Caleb Love last year as a shooter. Caleb usually makes up for his inefficiency from the field by being very good at the line, but that hasn't really been there this year so much so far. If Love has a monster game, it means he usually shot the ball a ton. Thus, being petty and complaining he didn't get the ball once is kinda silly in the larger picture because he obviously is getting the ball a lot or is isoing a lot.
No, the correct one got the talking to, and your shtick with Caleb is old and irritating to say the least. If you continue as Caleb's apologist, you are just distancing yourself from everyone on this board, and you'll wind up on most posters ignore list, as you are on mine.
It was for the tomahawk dunk. Not all that egregious but at that point not the best idea to do.
I’m personally fine with an exclamation point dunk. Kids are taught to play from whistle to whistle and if you get a chance at a breakaway dunk in the final minutes then hammer it home. I don’t give a crap what the score is. You play to win the game by as much as possible. Roy was too much of an apologist as well for these type things. My gosh, just think of the things Sheed and Stack did that would have made this look like child’s play.
Maybe Caleb shouldn't have thrown that last one down. However, after CoC guys were yapping all game long, I don't have a problem with it.
Yeah I figured it was for that but I was curious as to who in particular was having an issue over it. Of course I have always believed in the Carolina Way but I did not see that play stepping over the line and being disrespectful. As I stated we let their player go for an uncontested layup right afterwards.
Well yeah... and empathizing with a player in the heat of all that, I don't have an issue with the dunk. As you said, COC was a mouthy bunch and one guy in particular was jawing at Caleb for much of the game. That said, as a coach you do the right and classy thing as Hubert did and smooth it over.
Definitely.
Tarheel75 I am done venting for the day……I’m on the grill….charcoal grill…us Eastern NC folk don’t use gas grills….against our religion. The bratwurst, chicken and ribs are about done…the beer is on ice…. And I’m ready to watch Mr. Maye lead us to victory over Wake……have a great day Sir!
Thanks for the post Gary....and hopefully some wake-up calls were delivered.
Not gonna do the cliche "tale-of-two-halves" cop-out --- that doesn't cover it --- but allowing 50 points in a half... seriously? Anyway, here we go:
- Let's start there: First-half defense was almost nonexistent. Poor execution and poor game-plan (more on that below), and mostly poor EFFORT. Yep, our ol' trusty bugaboo --- EFFORT. Lazy forces, guys allowing themselves to get picked off by predictable screens, and late (or no) block/rim help.
- And speaking of the latter, Bacot looked like he was still on a TV set, and Nance like he was reading a newspaper on the backside block Jeezus H. As for screens, granted, COC (especially #35) threw more moving screens than the Green Bay Packers O-Line, but you can't count on those being called (especially in a Roger Ayers game) --- you hafta be tough and make that jabronie feel it when you're FIGHTING THRU, and put out the extra effort to beat the screener to the spot.
- OK, to the defensive game-plan: Look, sure we're good enough that we SHOULD be able to defend these guys with our base stuff, and sure, we want the guys to execute, but being stubbornly vanilla can become counter-productive to that end. I was briefly enticed when we snapped some doubles off their inbound plays (and it completely disrupted their action when we did it, BTW), I was let down from there. Mixiing in some snap doubles in 30/40 looks would have not only foiled COC's (largely successful) efforts at controlling tempo, but meanwhile, it would gave ignited our own, not to mention rev up the effort. Aggressive doubles would also put a stop to the nonsense of their guys being able to back into the block with impunity.
- What I'm assuming was a halftime blistering was fortunately able to light a fire under some butts, and the second-half defensive effort was light-years better --- both on and OFF the ball --- and the result showed for it. In paticular, we reacted better to those guys trying to play iso-ball.
- And speaking of effort, rebounding once again was disappointing. Opponents aren't just gonna stand there and concede boards just because we're bigger.
- Let's get to the positive --- THE most important adjustment from Monday's debacle was a COMMITMENT TO TRANSITION ftom the get-go. WOO-HOO! Good thing, too --- it sure as hell kept us the game in our defense-free first half... and fueled the 59 pts (and biscuits) in the 2nd. I figured recent practices featured mryiad 3-on-2-2-on-1 drills and a lotta running, and it showed. Sure it was clunky at times (Pete, stay the hell outta the sideline lanes --- you're a Big!), or like when Caleb would just throw up a random 3-pointer or RJ arbitrarily decided to do a Larry Drew ball-stopping imitation. But by and large, transition generated the best Carolina basketball we've seen of late. I mean, there were actual OUTLET PASSES(!!!).
- Y'know... amazing thing about our transition game --- if affords myriad opportunities to ATTACK THE RIM vs an unset defense. Amazing how that happens.
- The other adjustment that fueled the second half turnaround was POUNDING THE ROCK INSIDE on set plays. Right outta the Dean Smith playbook, we started with the first possession after the half.. Just as important, the Mando we know finally woke the hell up, AND we got him the rock DEEPER in the post.
- As for personnel, the other thing that kept us in the first half was Leaky's efficient and timely play. And honestly, I wish was even more aggressive --- he had a mismatch every time he touched the ball.
- Ball movenent was night-and-day better than Monday, and Caleb in particular was in his element attacking the rim off the Secondary.
- It's early... and not to bang on any player individually, Hubert needs to do better with the rotation --- particularly some of the seat-of-the-pants substitution patterns that created clunky stretches in both halves. There were positives from everyone as well as lapses, but from what these eyes gleaned, there should have been a bit more Dunn and Nickel, a bit less Trimble, and Styles will never find a rhythm at this rate of usage.
Anyway, one last point about transition: Ain't it amazin' that we only had 8 TOs, huh? We ran more, passed more and pushed tempo... and nonetheless took care of the rock. Aggression can have its rewards. Hmm... imagine that. Let's hope that becomes a habit......
Styles is going to be an interesting storyline as the season progresses.
As you said, he is getting very little run and he is obviously frustrated.
Last night he gave up straight line drives to the rim onback to back possessions. Hubert had a sub up before the last bucket dropped through the net.
Trez saw the sub, and subsequently throws up an awlful shot at the other end, knowing he is coming out on the next deadball.
He is not playing much, and in these small snippets, I can't make a case so far that he should.
Does he get ANY run once Puff and Jalen are available?
We are only two games into the season, but the Dontrez Styles to the portal watch has already began.
I am not saying it will, or should happen, but he is the most likely to move on.
I am from Indiana too, and I believe the game in Bloomington is the toughest game on our schedule.
Indiana has a couple physical guards that can do to Davis and Love exactly what the C of C guards did last night.
ISO them on the block and play bully ball. Trimble and Dunn will be needed defensively at times in Bloomington is R.J. and Caleb continue to get punked inside.
Great add Tarheel75!
Huberts comments in the defense and guys getting time, I have to think Styles is one of those players at this time.
He gave up 2 blow by buckets and never saw the floor again.
As for Nance, I would love to see more ISO Plays for him. He is skilled and savy enough to both post and drive his opponent. His length allows him to use his great touch around the bucket, and his passing ability to find open guys when doubled is key.
He did miss Bacot for an easy baseline dunk when he drove his guy from the left wing, but he willl more often than not make the right play.
Nope. The guards are supposed to funnel the drive to the big if the big men can't stretch. If the Indiana bigs can't shoot 3s, then it doesn't matter. They won't get them alone on the block.
Dude, relax.
Have you seen Nance play before these first two games at Carolina?
I watched probably a dozen or more of his games while he was at Northwestern and he has much more to offer than he has shown so far.
He seems to be TOO unselfish at this early stage of the season, but that will change with time.
Is he Brady Manek? No, but he doesn't need to be. He can be very effective in our offensive scheme, because he is frankly more versatile than Manek.
Nance will show what he is capable of in the next few weeks.
Now your hyperbole aside, I do agree with you that Puff, and I will add Washington, will add a dimension to our offense that Nance doesn't do as well. Those two, and Nickel as well, will shoot the quick release 3 better than Pete, and I am looking forward to some lineups with Nance at the 5 and Washington and Puff at the forward spots. Our length will be palpable on defense and with the ability to switch all positions.
Slow down your Nance hating, he will be just fine.
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Agree that the IU guards don't shootvthe 3 at a high %, but that doesn't negate their ability to drive and score at the rim. IU gets their perimeter shooting from their forwards. More than one way to skin a cat.
IU will shoot the 3 better at home that game, they always shoot well in Big home games. I have been hating on IU for 40 plus years, be I will even concede that.
I thought the Caleb-RJ problem got solved last year as the season wound down.
Until then - for a year and a half - it reminded me way too much of the tension between Larry Drew and Dexter Strickland. Not saying it was that bad, but it was there.
I'm surprised that this came to a head over RJ not passing to Caleb. The reason that surprises me is because last year the other way around was often on display: RJ would pass to Caleb, but Caleb wouldn't return the favor.
Until then - for a year and a half - it reminded me way too much of the tension between Larry Drew and Dexter Strickland. Not saying it was that bad, but it was there.
I'm surprised that this came to a head over RJ not passing to Caleb. The reason that surprises me is because last year the other way around was often on display: RJ would pass to Caleb, but Caleb wouldn't return the favor.
The tension with Drew was with pretty much the entire roster. PGs who decide to be ball-stoppers tend to cause that reaction, after all.
That does raise a salient and important distinction, however:
Drew's ball-stopping was intentional. He was a selfish PG, who wanted the "stat". If he couldn't get the bucket or the Assist himself, he just wouldn't give up the rock, and thus refused to swing the ball in transition nor make the vital "pass-that-leads-to-the-pass" that triggers so much of our offense --- in other words, he was the anti-Joel Berry.
From what I can see, RJ has no such nefarious motivations --- he just doesn't know any better. Well ok, that's not entirely accurate, so let's put it this way --- doing it right doesn't come naturally because he's a Combo, not a PG... PLUS (as I mentioned above) last season he was encouraged to dribble as a default in the schemed-switch initiation of our half-court offense. In other words, Hubert's crafty gambit that elicited short-term success now has its bill coming due, as we (wisely) return to sounder Carolina concepts.
Bottom line is, the way to fix our Guard chemistry issue is to simply be relentless going forward in re-teaching and drilling Carolina concepts of TRANSITION, MOTION and BALL-MOVEMENT with the PASS.
And, may I add...., find a LG or two that fits the bill going forth into the future.
Thought you might like that. Oh..., and your commentary on Drew while correct, still doesn't reveal how much of a cancer not only he, but his immediate family were to the program while he was there. I still tell Roy that starting him over Kendall was one of the dumbest moves he had ever made.
Larry Drew......The original Turn Over Jesus.
Does Roy even respond to that? I'm guessing not, since you are correct and he can't really defend that decision.
Oh yeah, he responded, but that's just between us and not for board consumption if you understand.
Ha! I privately called him Ball-Stopper Jesus (without the Jesus part, IYKWIM)...
I always felt for Roy (because he lost his friendship with Larry Sr. over that episode with his rotten kid and momma), but yeah.............
Roy wasn't stupid and knew himself who the better baller was! He also knew WithDrew was so mentally weak and full of himself that he would play better with time to see the game from the bench first AND if he was moved to the bench he would be an even worse cancer to the team. Roy could see that the team might one day need him and tried to massage the rotation to help the team as a whole. Turns out he was right on all counts! 1. The team could have used a guard once Butter went down. 2. WD had his best game once the pressure of starting was removed. 3. WD abandoned the team as soon as he could once he was sent to the bench! IMO!
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