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Quick stuff (FSU game)...

gary-7

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Jan 27, 2003
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...and this was a WAYYY better win than many probably think.

I was worried about this one, and for good reason. Some fans act like FSU is some scrub team and that is utter BS, so please take that noise elsewhere. Sure, they have underachieved for parts of the season, but they are VERY talented, and as usual, long and athletic as hell.

OK, so I have a bunch o' notes, but lemme start with the two that won this thing:

- 1. REBOUNDING: Yeah, once again our bigger front line paid off, and keeping their athletes off the offensive glass was an amazing feat. I mean, ZERO second chances in the 1st half? AYKM? (and only 4 offensive boards for the game). Yeah, that's doin' work.

- 2. GOING ZONE: For a self-inflicted reason I'll mention below, as well as FSU shooting outta their minds, we had let an early lead dwindle and they had all the momentum. The switch to that hybrid Zone was key. And kudos to Hubert for not getting spooked when they hit a 3 on the first ensuing possession. Every look they got for the rest of the half was difficult and it paid off over time as they cooled off. And speaking of all this, as a coach I always disputed the myth about Zones and rebounding. My teams always rebounded better in Zone, because it's easier to form that magic "triangle" and block out your area than finding a man. We did that quite well tonight.

arright, other stuff:

- We came out again with effort and urgency --- and I'll tell ya what, so did FSU --- and literally everyone wearing blue did praise-worthy things that contributed to this win. The overall thing was --- and this is important --- our guys are finally getting beyond HALF-ASSING things. Our guys went to the rack like we friggin meant it! And when ya do that, what happens? Not only do you finish better, you draw more whistles. I'll use Withers as an example, as some of his attempts weren't pretty, but going hard paid off for him.

- Speaking of going hard, a lot fewer pussified attempts and more flushing was good to see, and how about Seth's grown-ass man drives down the stretch?... I hate it when he crouches in the paint --- tonight he used that explosiveness to power thru. In general, we were converting up close and on put-backs --- many of which we woulda missed earlier in the season.

- We also overcame some zebra nonsense. After the refs (not named Groover, who was lazy and useless) called it pretty fair, they got one-sided whistle-crazy in the 2nd half. I mean, FSU was in the damn double-bonus with 11:27 to go, and we were having to get by with Wash and Lubin hamstrung with some rather questionable fouls. Again, as I have always said, you hafta play thru that junk, and we certainly did.

- Speaking of Wash, we actually made a couple of HIGH entries off fronts (!), and boy, was it nice to see him knock down that 3 on what's left of our Secondary. Now, if he would just post STRONGER with guys on his hip...

- Speakig of entries, Drake made a few sweet passes at key times, and we're starting to see guys get a feel for catching lobs and finishing

- I'm gonna give a special shout to Tyson. He played REALLY well, and not just the points and boards. Most won't notice, but when FSU was getting after it, he made 4 or 5 high-IQ plays that won't show up on a stat sheet, that either saved possessions or allowed teammates to secure the rock. It drives me friggin crazy when fans are quick to relegate guys or call them "busts". Cade can play --- he just needed some real run. Honestly, the only complaint I had tonight was not catching that open dime from EC --- ALWAYS be looking when it's in Eliot's hands.

- Not a great night from 3, but it felt like every one we DID make was at a vital time. Two of RJ's bailed us out of possessions when we reverted to hero-ball, but yeah, they always seemed to come when we had to keep FSU at bay. And how about RJ's acrobatic left-hand finish? --- we were getting him in up/down mismatches but FSU is TOUGH even then.

- On the negative side, the aformentioned self-inflicted bugs are once again coming from subbing out EC too damn soon. Hubert did that junk in the first half, and of course we immediately get a shot-clock violation, then after coming outta halftime and stretching our lead, it happened agan, and the lead almost disappeared. There's a reason FSU was doing everything they could to deny him the rock. Simple fact is, when EC is out, unless we can hit on the first option of a set play, it too often becomes hero time. There was a little bit less of that tonight, and I know Hubert is trying to make room for depth --- and I APPLAUD that --- but it HAS to be smoother, and that under-16 stuff continuity-killing is just unsustainable.

- One more complaint was trying to actually watch the damn GAME in between BSPN's FSU Reunion Special. I mean, I respect Leonard, and I know he's retiring, but DAMN, save the bench shots for timeouts. All I can say is thank heaven I didn't have sound and have to suffer thru Cory --- I can only imagine... :eek: :rolleyes:

- Oh, and finally, one more thing --- Joe Lunardi can GFH... 🦨

- Anyway, again, do NOT come back with FSU being a weak opponent. For those who like to cite "metrics", when you go down there and hang 96 on a team with those sort of defensive numbers? That is something to be impressed with... and hopefully, to keep moving forward with... and without any let-downs. That was a good win in more ways than one... :cool:
 
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Really liked Drake looking for Jalen. Wish we could have others look for him. Drake turned him into a threat. We tend to kick it out and don't look much for the middle unless it is an alley oop. Sometimes the simple pass to a post is the answer. Seem to be playing better.
Going to be a really interesting off season. Would love to see Drake, Elliott, Seth and Jalen back.

Interested in people's opinion of Tyson next year. I think he can be a piece with a commitment to maxing out what he can do body wise. Kind of think the same for Jalen. If we can get a center and a knock down shooter along with improved shooting from Elliott, Seth and Drake, I think we could be pretty darn good.
 
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I think this may have been the best performance of the season. On the road not clicking with the early shooting, FSU, going "Bama" with the dare EC to score and wild aggressive face guarding of RJ early. Adjusted and controlled the game on the road throughout.

I thought RJ was excellent, zero turnovers, distributed, hawked on dee and still a very efficient 20 points.

Going zone to get Cade and Jalen some run while struggling to shoot it was right on time. Cade also hit the glass well.

Elliot bounced back in the second half, showing growth and some stones. Stayed in the moment and in control.

Seth attacked, finished at the rim, knocked down 2 big 3's out of his 5 looks. His 3ball seems to be drifting back to the extra high arc though, that may just be me, but the balloon jumpers stood out a bit more to me.

The 3 dunks after half was huge, 2 set plays out of the locker room and the quick run out on the play their big turned his ankle, pushed us to a nice cushion, which we held control over weathering the mini runs to answer.

Free throws in the last 10 minutes was troublesome. That is how you snatch a defeat from the jaws of victory. Got the right guys (RJ and Seth) with the rock to go to the line in the final few possessions though.

Huge win, stay focused and full steam ahead with the next two. Get 'em fellas!!
 
...and this was a WAYYY better win than many probably think.

I was worried about this one, and for good reason. Some fans act like FSU is some scrub team and that is utter BS, so please take that noise elsewhere. Sure, they have underachieved for parts of the season, but they are VERY talented, and as usual, long and athletic as hell.

OK, so I have a bunch o' notes, but lemme start with the two that won this thing:

- 1. REBOUNDING: Yeah, once again our bigger front line paid off, and keeping their athletes off the offensive glass was an amazing feat. I mean, ZERO second chances in the 1st half? AYKM? (and only 4 offensive boards for the game). Yeah, that's doin' work.

- 2. GOING ZONE: For a self-inflicted reason I'll mention below, as well as FSU shooting outta their minds, we had let an early lead dwindle and they had all the momentum. The switch to that hybrid Zone was key. And kudos to Hubert for not getting spooked when they hit a 3 on the first ensuing possession. Every look they got for the rest of the half was difficult and it paid off over time as they cooled off. And speaking of all this, as a coach I always disputed the myth about Zones and rebounding. My teams always rebounded better in Zone, because it's easier to form that magic "triangle" and block out your area than finding a man. We did that quite well tonight.

arright, other stuff:

- We came out again with effort and urgency --- and I'll tell ya what, so did FSU --- and literally everyone wearing blue did praise-worthy things that contributed to this win. The overall thing was --- and this is important --- our guys are finally getting beyond HALF-ASSING things. Our guys went to the rack like we friggin meant it! And when ya do that, what happens? Not only do you finish better, you draw more whistles. I'll use Withers as an example, as some of his attempts weren't pretty, but going hard paid off for him.

- Speaking of going hard, a lot fewer pussified attempts and more flushing was good to see, and how about Seth's grown-ass man drives down the stretch?... I hate it when he crouches in the paint --- tonight he used that explosiveness to power thru. In general, we were converting up close and on put-backs --- many of which we woulda missed earlier in the season.

- We also overcame some zebra nonsense. After the refs (not named Groover, who was lazy and useless) called it pretty fair, they got one-sided whistle-crazy in the 2nd half. I mean, FSU was in the damn double-bonus with 11:27 to go, and we were having to get by with Wash and Lubin hamstrung with some rather questionable fouls. Again, as I have always said, you hafta play thru that junk, and we certainly did.

- Speaking of Wash, we actually made a couple of HIGH entries off fronts (!), and boy, was it nice to see him knock down that 3 on what's left of our Secondary. Now, if he would just post STRONGER with guys on his hip...

- Speakig of entries, Drake made a few sweet passes at key times, and we're starting to see guys get a feel for catching lobs and finishing

- I'm gonna give a special shout to Tyson. He played REALLY well, and not just the points and boards. Most won't notice, but when FSU was getting after it, he made 4 or 5 high-IQ plays that won't show up on a stat sheet, that either saved possessions or allowed teammates to secure the rock. It drives me friggin crazy when fans are quick to relegate guys or call them "busts". Cade can play --- he just needed some real run. Honestly, the only complaint I had tonight was not catching that open dime from EC --- ALWAYS be looking when it's in Eliot's hands.

- Not a great night from 3, but it felt like every one we DID make was at a vital time. Two of RJ's bailed us out of possessions when we reverted to hero-ball, but yeah, they always seemed to come when we had to keep FSU at bay. And how about RJ's acrobatic left-hand finish? --- we were getting him in up/down mismatches but FSU is TOUGH even then.

- On the negative side, the aformentioned self-inflicted bugs are once again coming from subbing out EC too damn soon. Hubert did that junk in the first half, and of course we immediately get a shot-clock violation, then after coming outta halftime and stretching our lead, it happened agan, and the lead almost disappeared. There's a reason FSU was doing everything they could to deny him the rock. Simple fact is, when EC is out, unless we can hit on the first option of a set play, it too often becomes hero time. There was a little bit less of that tonight, and I know Hubert is trying to make room for depth --- and I APPLAUD that --- but it HAS to be smoother, and that under-16 stuff continuity-killing is just unsustainable.

- One more complaint was trying to actually watch the damn GAME in between BSPN's FSU Reunion Special. I mean, I respect Leonard, and I know he's retiring, but DAMN, save the bench shots for timeouts. All I can say is thank heaven I didn't have sound and have to suffer thru Cory --- I can only imagine... :eek: :rolleyes:

- Oh, and finally, one more thing --- Joe Lunardi can GFH... 🦨

- Anyway, again, do NOT come back with FSU being a weak opponent. For those who like to cite "metrics", when you go down there and hang 96 on a team with those sort of defensive numbers? That is something to be impressed with... and hopefully, to keep moving forward with... and without any let-downs. That was a good win in more ways than one... :cool:
Tyson was huge tonight, probably his best game as a Tar Heel.
I am pretty sure the pass from EC to Tyson in the corner was tipped right before it got to Cade, I will slow it down and re watch tomorrow. Huberts willingness to use the zone in real strategic manners is refreshing and changed the course of the game in each half.
I love that Hunbert is trusting the bench and getting them extended min finally when they are producing.
Davis was really good 20 points 5 assists and zero turnovers and Seth played with an aggressive mindset. Seth also was an active secondary ball handler tonight when Davis and Cadeau were being denied the ball on press O.
EC made some fantastic passes and some frustrating turnovers. All in all it was a good night.
Survive and advance. Win these next two and give Dook a real Carolina/ Dook rematch kinda game.
 
...and this was a WAYYY better win than many probably think.

I was worried about this one, and for good reason. Some fans act like FSU is some scrub team and that is utter BS, so please take that noise elsewhere. Sure, they have underachieved for parts of the season, but they are VERY talented, and as usual, long and athletic as hell.

OK, so I have a bunch o' notes, but lemme start with the two that won this thing:

- 1. REBOUNDING: Yeah, once again our bigger front line paid off, and keeping their athletes off the offensive glass was an amazing feat. I mean, ZERO second chances in the 1st half? AYKM? (and only 4 offensive boards for the game). Yeah, that's doin' work.

- 2. GOING ZONE: For a self-inflicted reason I'll mention below, as well as FSU shooting outta their minds, we had let an early lead dwindle and they had all the momentum. The switch to that hybrid Zone was key. And kudos to Hubert for not getting spooked when they hit a 3 on the first ensuing possession. Every look they got for the rest of the half was difficult and it paid off over time as they cooled off. And speaking of all this, as a coach I always disputed the myth about Zones and rebounding. My teams always rebounded better in Zone, because it's easier to form that magic "triangle" and block out your area than finding a man. We did that quite well tonight.

arright, other stuff:

- We came out again with effort and urgency --- and I'll tell ya what, so did FSU --- and literally everyone wearing blue did praise-worthy things that contributed to this win. The overall thing was --- and this is important --- our guys are finally getting beyond HALF-ASSING things. Our guys went to the rack like we friggin meant it! And when ya do that, what happens? Not only do you finish better, you draw more whistles. I'll use Withers as an example, as some of his attempts weren't pretty, but going hard paid off for him.

- Speaking of going hard, a lot fewer pussified attempts and more flushing was good to see, and how about Seth's grown-ass man drives down the stretch?... I hate it when he crouches in the paint --- tonight he used that explosiveness to power thru. In general, we were converting up close and on put-backs --- many of which we woulda missed earlier in the season.

- We also overcame some zebra nonsense. After the refs (not named Groover, who was lazy and useless) called it pretty fair, they got one-sided whistle-crazy in the 2nd half. I mean, FSU was in the damn double-bonus with 11:27 to go, and we were having to get by with Wash and Lubin hamstrung with some rather questionable fouls. Again, as I have always said, you hafta play thru that junk, and we certainly did.

- Speaking of Wash, we actually made a couple of HIGH entries off fronts (!), and boy, was it nice to see him knock down that 3 on what's left of our Secondary. Now, if he would just post STRONGER with guys on his hip...

- Speakig of entries, Drake made a few sweet passes at key times, and we're starting to see guys get a feel for catching lobs and finishing

- I'm gonna give a special shout to Tyson. He played REALLY well, and not just the points and boards. Most won't notice, but when FSU was getting after it, he made 4 or 5 high-IQ plays that won't show up on a stat sheet, that either saved possessions or allowed teammates to secure the rock. It drives me friggin crazy when fans are quick to relegate guys or call them "busts". Cade can play --- he just needed some real run. Honestly, the only complaint I had tonight was not catching that open dime from EC --- ALWAYS be looking when it's in Eliot's hands.

- Not a great night from 3, but it felt like every one we DID make was at a vital time. Two of RJ's bailed us out of possessions when we reverted to hero-ball, but yeah, they always seemed to come when we had to keep FSU at bay. And how about RJ's acrobatic left-hand finish? --- we were getting him in up/down mismatches but FSU is TOUGH even then.

- On the negative side, the aformentioned self-inflicted bugs are once again coming from subbing out EC too damn soon. Hubert did that junk in the first half, and of course we immediately get a shot-clock violation, then after coming outta halftime and stretching our lead, it happened agan, and the lead almost disappeared. There's a reason FSU was doing everything they could to deny him the rock. Simple fact is, when EC is out, unless we can hit on the first option of a set play, it too often becomes hero time. There was a little bit less of that tonight, and I know Hubert is trying to make room for depth --- and I APPLAUD that --- but it HAS to be smoother, and that under-16 stuff continuity-killing is just unsustainable.

- One more complaint was trying to actually watch the damn GAME in between BSPN's FSU Reunion Special. I mean, I respect Leonard, and I know he's retiring, but DAMN, save the bench shots for timeouts. All I can say is thank heaven I didn't have sound and have to suffer thru Cory --- I can only imagine... :eek: :rolleyes:

- Oh, and finally, one more thing --- Joe Lunardi can GFH... 🦨

- Anyway, again, do NOT come back with FSU being a weak opponent. For those who like to cite "metrics", when you go down there and hang 96 on a team with those sort of defensive numbers? That is something to be impressed with... and hopefully, to keep moving forward with... and without any let-downs. That was a good win in more ways than one... :cool:
Thanks gary-7- well said. As soon as I saw RJ running the point, I could feel everyone shut down, and a shot clock violation ensued. Good point on Tyson- I think he needs more minutes. Spot on about the zone; and I might add that we pressed and trapped a little more! I still long for more of an emphasis on the secondary break! You mentioned JWash being stronger with a defender on his hip. More secondary break would get the ball to our bigs in an advantageous position. Good of you to notice the the high IQ plays by Tyson. And yes, EC can distribute that rock! I loved the board work and it’s so good to be the aggressor!! Lastly, FSU is a long athletic team! It’s a huge win and it was great to see! Thanks for the breakdown and also to the posters on our fine forum. We must continue the momentum, and as always-Go Heels!
 
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@gkss
"As soon as I saw RJ running the point, I could feel everyone shut down, and a shot clock violation ensued"


So taking Cadeau out of the game shut everyone down? Can you please explain to everyone the following numbers if Eliott Cadeau is the only reason Carolina runs any good offense:

During Carolinas first 13 ACC conference games in 2024-25 Eliott Cadeau played on average (29.1 )minutes per game.
As a team Carolina averaged (72.5) ppg.

During Carolinas last 4 ACC conference games in 2024-25 Eliott Cadeau played on average (22.5) minutes per game.
As a team Carolina averaged (90.5)

I am not putting this HUGE difference solely on Eliott Cadeau, but do attribute the move away from the two small guard lineup nearly as much, as being critical to our revamped basketball team.

EC offensive efficiency has certainly gone down a great deal due to the roster construction of this team. His efficiency was much better last year, and I think will be much better in 2026 season if he stays.

The current roster is not changing this year though, and it has become. Alarmingly clear that playing Cadeau and Davis together more than 15 or so minutes, is detrimental to our teams success.
Tonight's pg breakdown:
Cadeau 27 min 10 pts 7as 3 turnovers
Davis. 33 min 20 pts 5 as 0 turnovers.
RJ +/- tonight was +20 his 2nd best nu.ber all year.

I think they played less than 15 min on the floor together. Tonight was probably the best overall game the Tar Heels have played all year.
 
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"As soon as I saw RJ running the point, I could feel everyone shut down, and a shot clock violation ensued"

So taking Cadeau out of the game shut everyone down? Can you please explain to everyone the following numbers if Eliott Cadeau is the only reason Carolina runs any good offense:

During Carolinas first 13 ACC conference games in 2024-25 Eliott Cadeau played on average (29.1 )minutes per game.
As a team Carolina averaged (72.5) ppg.

During Carolinas last 4 ACC conference games in 2024-25 Eliott Cadeau played on average (22.5) minutes per game.
As a team Carolina averaged (90.5)

I am not putting this HUGE difference solely on Eliott Cadeau, but do attribute the move away from the two small guard lineup nearly as much, as being critical to our revamped basketball team.

EC offensive efficiency has certainly gone down a great deal due to the roster construction of this team. His efficiency was much better last year, and I think will be much better in 2026 season if he stays.

The current roster is not changing this year though, and it has become. Alarmingly clear that playing Cadeau and Davis together more than 15 or so minutes, is detrimental to our teams success.
During the last 4 games with Cadeau minutes decreasing by almost 7/game, he is still averaging basically the same amount of assists per game (5.25)apg, but also the same amount of turnovers per game (3.25)
His scoring is down almost 4ppg in this four game stretch (7.25)ppg
 
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