Quick stuff (FSU game)...

[gary-7]

...and this was definitely a tale of two halves.

- We seemed sluggish out of the gate, while it seemed like everyone on that team was making 3s. Hell, I'm surprised Leonard Hamilton didn't throw one in. We lost track of shooters and our Help-D was generally lousy in the first half, as guys were loosing sight of the ball and were late stepping in.

- On offense, the first-half ball movement was not crisp, and we were doing a bit too much off the dribble.

- The issue in the first half wasn't as much blowing Assists this time as just not finishing drives and put-backs. Granted, TV Teddy and crew were allowing a lot of contact, but many were just plain misses, Luke's in particular. Maddeningly, we weren't just missing the first op, we were missing easy put-backs. The bug of bad finishing was a huge issue... not just for the shot missed but for the transition opportunities we created for them. Several of those were 4 or 5 point turn-arounds.

- In the second half everything --- well, at least everything we could control --- improved miles. Defense --- both on-ball and help --- was way better, as illustrated by holding a dangerous offensive team to 30 points, after giving up an embarrassing 51 in the first on 54.5% shooting.

- Although we didn't get our transition game going, there was some solid half-court offensive execution in the second half. The bad news is we blew some good dimes (11) along the way.

- We shot well enough from 3 to win (11/29), but the aforementioned close-in misses were hurtful.
We edged the rebounding battle 41-37 and our 17 Offensive Rebounds afforded us ample extra shot opportunities. Hell, we got up 77 attempts, but only 40% FG shooting to show for it.

- I noticed Cam was forcing on the offensive end, and our movement was stopping when he got the ball. He still needs to flow better into the offense and not become a ball-stopper. I did like his aggression driving but he got out of control a couple of times. I also really liked that he got on the boards strong tonight with 8.

- KW's hot shooting kept us in the game in the first half. He cooled off in the second, but ended up with 18 pts and 7 boards in 34 minutes. And of course, JB basically willed us back into this one on both ends. To say he earned every one of those 21 second half points is putting it mildly.

- Maddeningly, we didn't go to the Bomb Squad until very late, and it dang near pulled this one out. One reason for the delay was likely Theo picking up his 4th foul (on a garbage call).

- Finally, while we dug our own hole early and had the aforementioned deficiencies, at some point there needs to be some accountability. This was a big ACC game between quality ranked opponents, and the guys in stripes need to show up, too. In a VERY physical game, in which we attacked the rim frequently, FSU still had 2 fouls to give with under a minute. And they accumulated a grand total of 9, that's right, 9 team fouls for the entire game (a number that happens to match the total number of FT attempts UNC got, while FSU was shooting 22). We don't ask for it to be perfect, just some semblance of fair. Putting it quite simply, that didn't happen tonight.

Well, tough loss in a hard-fought game. UVA now looking like one of those early "must-wins" (if there is such a thing). Can't afford to spot teams early leads on the road. Let's hope the guys are on point from the get-go Saturday.

 

[HeelzLover]

It's the "winning record on the road the last 7 years in the ACC" crap the kept spewing about. Jinx, I hope not.

 

[bax4444]

Had penciled this in as a loss so I'm not too upset. Just sucks cuz unc made a great comeback, sort of wish Roy woulda called a timeout on 2nd to last possession, jb dribbled around for awhile and wasted some time it appeared he looked over to the bench.. although we did get him a decent look anyways.

 

[dtodd4475]

FSU having two fouls to give was important in that situation. They did a good job of using one just as Berry was kicking it back to Luke for what looked to be a nice clean pick and pop look.

 

[heelmanwilm]

Fsu is a damn good team and imo better than us. We played em a damn tough game and nearly pulled it out. I was impressed. But uva is even better. I’m telling u guys .500 in league play is gonna be tough for this team.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

We MUST get better production from our freshman bigs. Last night they combined for what 6 points and 10 boards? That alone is A key factor in our recent struggles and why it will continue in conference play unless something changes.

 

[dadika13]

Teddy being that disrespectful to a senior All-American and defending Final Four MVP was disgusting.

We played like crap in the first half but our 2nd half was worthy of winning that game. Frustrating.

 

[dadika13]

We MUST get better production from our freshman bigs. Last night they combined for what 6 points and 10 boards? That alone is A key factor in our recent struggles and why it will continue in conference play unless something changes.

I thought Manley played well.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

I thought Manley played well.

He's coming, just slowly. Has some WOW moments, looking forward to seeing him string a few together.

 

[gary-7]

Fsu is a damn good team and imo better than us. We played em a damn tough game and nearly pulled it out. I was impressed. But uva is even better. I’m telling u guys .500 in league play is gonna be tough for this team.

FSU is very talented but they're not better than us. It took a horrible half from us + frightfully one-sided zebras for them to hang with us at their place. The better team did not win last night.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Fsu is a damn good team and imo better than us. We played em a damn tough game and nearly pulled it out. I was impressed. But uva is even better. I’m telling u guys .500 in league play is gonna be tough for this team.

No way FSU is better than us. Certainly not based on what I saw last night. They needed the refs help and us to miss at least 4 at the rim for them to eek out a win at home.

With regard to UVa, I think we match up better with them this year than most years. I'm thinking we go into JPJ and get a win.

 

[Heels5150]

No way FSU is better than us. Certainly not based on what I saw last night. They needed the refs help and us to miss at least 4 at the rim for them to eek out a win at home.

With regard to UVa, I think we match up better with them this year than most years. I'm thinking we go into JPJ and get a win.

I was hoping JB was going to kick it to cam in the corner for an open 3. I Mutch rather have that then JB driving into trees and nothing’s there. With that I am sure everyone saw Berry get hit the whole game. He was getting pissed. So many blown calls and one of the biggest caused us a turnover and ref valentine just turned his back on Joel when Joel was trying to get an explanation. Was this kindergarten?? I mean Joel’s trying to tell him his arm was being held and.valentine was right there and missed it or didn’t want to call it. Pissed me off on a lot of calls like that

 

[gunslingerdick]

I was hoping JB was going to kick it to cam in the corner for an open 3. I Mutch rather have that then JB driving into trees and nothing’s there. With that I am sure everyone saw Berry get hit the whole game. He was getting pissed. So many blown calls and one of the biggest caused us a turnover and ref valentine just turned his back on Joel when Joel was trying to get an explanation. Was this kindergarten?? I mean Joel’s trying to tell him his arm was being held and.valentine was right there and missed it or didn’t want to call it. Pissed me off on a lot of calls like that

Yeah, I'm not going to cry about the officiating in one game. But I am starting to get irritated that ACC refs are consistently allowing opponents far too much contact on Joel when he's driving. Joel has shot very few FTs this season and IMO is deserving of at least double what he's been given.

 

[gary-7]

I was hoping JB was going to kick it to cam in the corner for an open 3. I Mutch rather have that then JB driving into trees and nothing’s there. With that I am sure everyone saw Berry get hit the whole game. He was getting pissed. So many blown calls and one of the biggest caused us a turnover and ref valentine just turned his back on Joel when Joel was trying to get an explanation. Was this kindergarten?? I mean Joel’s trying to tell him his arm was being held and.valentine was right there and missed it or didn’t want to call it. Pissed me off on a lot of calls like that

JB created a great look that is normally money but he got undercut by #3 --- with no call of course, which is always a hazzard with last-second shots. Yeah, Cam was open, but as good as he is that's still not as high percentage as JB's shot. They were both good options. Unfortunately it didn't go in.

 

[gary-7]

Yeah, I'm not going to cry about the officiating in one game. But I am starting to get irritated that ACC refs are consistently allowing opponents far too much contact on Joel when he's driving. Joel has shot very few FTs this season and IMO is deserving of at least double what he's been given.

It really is getting old and double the FTs is being conservative. I get the fact that JB is bull-strong and maintains his posture thru contact --- and he doesn't pull the dookie head-whip -- but contact is contact, and it's usually heavy with JB sprawled on the floor. I can tell ya, Dean would have video going to the league office. Roy needs to do the same.

 

[gunslingerdick]

JB created a great look that is normally money but he got undercut by #3 --- with no call of course, which is always a hazzard with last-second shots. Yeah, Cam was open, but as good as he is that's still not as high percentage as JB's shot. They were both good options. Unfortunately it didn't go in.

Berry should have dished it. Berry knows that too. He apologized for it. Even if you were to say that both shots were equal in level of difficulty, Berry should have known the refs weren't going to give him the call (they haven't all year and certainly not last night). Cam was open. Cam's shot is the one we should have lived on or died on.

 

[heelmanwilm]

FSU is very talented but they're not better than us. It took a horrible half from us + frightfully one-sided zebras for them to hang with us at their place. The better team did not win last night.

Imo they’re 2nd to dook. Then miami, uva then unc. Acc is loaded. Lots of good teams gonna have at leadt 6 conf losses i think.

 

[gary-7]

Berry should have dished it. Berry knows that too. He apologized for it. Even if you were to say that both shots were equal in level of difficulty, Berry should have known the refs weren't going to give him the call (they haven't all year and certainly not last night). Cam was open. Cam's shot is the one we should have lived on or died on.

JB was just falling on the sword as he usually does. While I agree that he hasn't been getting the calls, taking it to the rack in last-second situations is the better percentage play. The were both good options and neither was a dunk. I can live with JB's miss just like I could've lived with a Cam miss. What's harder to swallow is that it had to come down to that, for the reasons we've been discussing.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

- I noticed Cam was forcing on the offensive end, and our movement was stopping when he got the ball. He still needs to flow better into the offense and not become a ball-stopper.

Not just Cam, either,

Pass - pass - stop - dribble - stop - pass - stop

We look good when that ball keeps moving. Somewhat understandable with Cam. He's still learning our system and getting his legs. Not at all understandable for the other guys.

I'd like to see more emphasis on keeping the ball moving. It might produce a few unforced errors, but I bet it would produce more than enough extra scoring to make up the difference.

 

[gary-7]

Not just Cam, either,

Pass - pass - stop - dribble - stop - pass - stop

We look good when that ball keeps moving. Somewhat understandable with Cam. He's still learning our system and getting his legs. Not at all understandable for the other guys.

I'd like to see more emphasis on keeping the ball moving. It might produce a few unforced errors, but I bet it would produce more than enough extra scoring to make up the difference.

Yeah, especially in the first half the cuts weren't crisp. FSU plays aggressive off-ball and you hafta fight thru and commit to solid screens and sharp cuts.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

- We shot well enough from 3 to win (11/29), but the aforementioned close-in misses were hurtful.
We edged the rebounding battle 41-37 and our 17 Offensive Rebounds afforded us ample extra shot opportunities. Hell, we got up 77 attempts, but only 40% FG shooting to show for it.

Both teams were 11-29 from deep.

We took 20 more shots from 2-point range!

They took 28 shots from 2-point range, we took 48.

Twenty more shots, yet only 6 more points.

They shot 60.7% from that range. Admittedly Mann made some high-degree-of-difficulty shots. But how does anyone shoot 60.7% from 2-point range against our defense?

That should never happen.

 

[gary-7]

Both teams were 11-29 from deep.

We took 20 more shots from 2-point range!

They took 28 shots from 2-point range, we took 48.

Twenty more shots, yet only 6 more points.

They shot 60.7% from that range. Admittedly Mann made some high-degree-of-difficulty shots. But how does anyone shoot 60.7% from 2-point range against our defense?

That should never happen.

Two things. The missed finishes on our end often lead to transition opportunities for them, and most of their damage inside came in the first half when our help-D was lagging.

 

[bax4444]

Both teams were 11-29 from deep.

We took 20 more shots from 2-point range!

They took 28 shots from 2-point range, we took 48.

Twenty more shots, yet only 6 more points.

They shot 60.7% from that range. Admittedly Mann made some high-degree-of-difficulty shots. But how does anyone shoot 60.7% from 2-point range against our defense?

That should never happen.

Luke missed a ton of easy chances. As well as he has played there have been games where he's blown 3-4 easy wide open layups and he needs to put away that turn around flip/hook shot. His percentage on that is dreadful.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Luke missed a ton of easy chances. As well as he has played there have been games where he's blown 3-4 easy wide open layups and he needs to put away that turn around flip/hook shot. His percentage on that is dreadful.

Agree with all of that. Luke doesn't have much with his back to the basket. We knew that. He needs to face up. But yeah, him missing those chippies in recent games is killing me. I don't understand why we don't dunk the ball more than we do.

 

[bax4444]

Yeah. I dont necessarily expect luke to be throwing em down all the time because hes undersized to begin with and his jumping ability is limited, but he doesnt take it up strong enough it appears. and unfortunately he short arms the jump hook and a lot of layups.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

Overall our post game is killing us. Take away a Luke’s production mid range and from the 3 point line, we really get close to nothing most games from our 4 and 5 position. Luke has missed more gimmies close to the room than anybody I’ve seen in recent memory. He gets anxious and seemingly short arms/rushes the shot almost every time. It’s weird. Others have missed gimmies here and there which happens, it’s basketball but Luke has to be better around the rim because none of our freshman bigs are consistent down there. I said that we’d need 15 and 10 from the 3 headed freshman bigs combined and we aren’t getting close to that. Unless that changes we will continue to live and die by our perimeter shooting and ability to defend. Not a good recipe with as tough as the ACC is.

 

[DeanFor President]

There is no other guard that gets into the lane with contact as much as JB with so few calls. It's pitiful.

 

[FranktheHeel]

I just rewatched the game and I thought the second half really showed a lot about us. We made some adjustments, picked things up defensively leading us to limit their 3 point opportunities. (Going to go back to that in the end)

We keep winning the rebounding battle, I mean 17 offensive boards is pretty doggone good. We limited our turnovers in the 2nd half. We talked about this another time but it seems that when we play our best basketball, there is a limit on turnovers and there is great movement, including without the ball and with it by making the extra pass and finding the open shooter. I was a little disappointed at times to see us get stagnant on Offensive instead of moving and trying to get a backdoor cut or find a gap to fill for an open shot. Moving forward, we are going to have to improve on it. You saw it on the play when Cam was able to get inside the arch and find Berry for a 3, even though it looked like a lost play, him getting inside the arch caused the D to collapse on him allowing him to kick it back to Berry for an open look.

I was impressed with Sterlings rebounding and his two passes from the high post. What really stood out was one play where he got an Offensive board, brought it down, composed himself and then went back up strong to finish it. He’s really the big that we are going to need to contribute each game on the offensive end. I really believe that he if he can continue to get good positioning down low, he will have a lot of opportunities for easy put backs.

Joel Berry, this kid just deserves multiple pats on the back for this one. He comes to play in big games and it’s as simple as that.The way he came out in the 2nd half and performed for us was the true example of a leader, he stepped up big time when his team needed him and almost was able to bring us all the way back. There’s no way you can’t love the kid, he got knocked around all game long and as we saw didn’t get any time of day from the refs, but kept fighting. I really would've liked to see us pull it out for him because he gave everything that he could, but if we learned anything about Joel this loss is just going to motivate him.

There’s a reason we need Theo on the floor, having those instincts to intercept that pass there just shows you his value to this team, he saw that pass coming before it happened. I try not to get into it with the refs, but Theo really got a lot of bs called on him, it felt like they were going after Isaiah, us not having him on the floor definitely didn’t help us, we were attacking better with him on the floor and defensively we were more disruptive and cut off more of their driving.

Cam made some nice passes and had more of a Theo like day with 7 points, 8 rebounds and 6 assists. We are more than likely going to need him to score double digit points moving forward, but we did see him show how he is a very good passer today. I know he made mistakes defensively and looked a step too slow closing out on 3s, but all of our guys did struggle with that today. Cam is making a big effort to committing on Defense, so I say to give him a little more time there. He has already shown his ability to rebound which is a good sign.

Our effort, intensity and focus is so critical throughout the whole game. I would really have love to see us play with that same energy and poise that we showed as we went on our runs in the 2nd half to start games.

In the first half we missed wayyy to many easy layups and tip ins, just think if we would’ve made 2 or 3 more of these, where the game might’ve been.

A lot of FSU's threes were uncontested and resulted from us providing help on their penetration into the lane and not being able to recover and get back out on their shooters. As we picked things up defensively in the 2nd half, you could see that we made their shots just a little more contested causing more misses and them to pass up some of them. I felt like at times we even over-helped, which thinking about it, it may be due to us not having that strong post presence. I feel like we could just give a little jab at the ball handler, instead of completely providing help which would still allow enough time to be able to get out and contest the three point shooter and not leaving him completely open.

Roy put it perfectly when he talked about us not being able to stop the ball handler as he drove into the lane causing us to have collapse inside leaving open shooters from 3. He also talked about doing a better job on the ball, which I totally agree there were multiple times where they were able to create space from our defenders and shoot right over them.

I really think moving forward we need to make a very big effort in getting the ball into the paint from drives by our guards. Joel has to do this a lot yesterday and Kenny has showed that he can too. Jalek also is very good at this and is able to dish it off, as seen by that nice feed to Theo for the dunk. Teams are starting to push us out more onto the perimeter which is causing us to just get stuck on offense with no movement and constant dribbling all the way out on the perimeter.

In saying this, I really do believe that we will go into Virginia and get the job done, I really want to see a lot of focus on both ends of the floor, we are going to have to really be able to move without the ball in order to not allow Virginia to slow us down completely. What I really want to see is a big lockdown effort on the defensive end leading to a Carolina W!

 

[gary-7]

Overall our post game is killing us. Take away a Luke’s production mid range and from the 3 point line, we really get close to nothing most games from our 4 and 5 position. Luke has missed more gimmies close to the room than anybody I’ve seen in recent memory. He gets anxious and seemingly short arms/rushes the shot almost every time. It’s weird. Others have missed gimmies here and there which happens, it’s basketball but Luke has to be better around the rim because none of our freshman bigs are consistent down there. I said that we’d need 15 and 10 from the 3 headed freshman bigs combined and we aren’t getting close to that. Unless that changes we will continue to live and die by our perimeter shooting and ability to defend. Not a good recipe with as tough as the ACC is.

Assessing Luke's inside game, the guy I know who played summer pro-am with him actually got on him about being stronger finishing inside. And to be fair he has developed more of a repertoire, such as a nice up-and-under move and a jump-hook in the paint. But he still isn't going up vertically strong enough for the jump-hook to work consistently on the blocks, and thus it turns into a fall-away flip, especially when guys are subtly undercutting him.

As for the missing the chippies where he does have position, he seems to have picked up one of Kennedy's habits of trying to quick-release the ball on the way up to avoid blocked shots. That in itself has led to several misses. Thing is, Meeks was so damn big he could often tip in his own misses. Luke doesn't have that luxury.

Luke is hampered inside by not being a particularly "long" 6'8, which is why he tries to be crafty. Fair enough, but as my guy told him two summers ago, he is strong enough and athletic enough to power up and throw some down. As @gunslingerdick said, I'd like to see some more dunking, especially once he has the defender on his hip.

 

[Heelswin]

Both teams were 11-29 from deep.

We took 20 more shots from 2-point range!

They took 28 shots from 2-point range, we took 48.

Twenty more shots, yet only 6 more points.

They shot 60.7% from that range. Admittedly Mann made some high-degree-of-difficulty shots. But how does anyone shoot 60.7% from 2-point range against our defense?

That should never happen.

You guys havent got a clue ... We just havent learned the 7 Ps yet! Giveus another chance and well stop pissin in the wind, in fact we'll pi$$ on dook, fsu and uva too!!!

 

[toophly1124]

You guys havent got a clue ... We just havent learned the 7 Ps yet! Giveus another chance and well stop pissin in the wind, in fact we'll pi$$ on dook, fsu and uva too!!!

You make me chuckle.

 

[TarHeelMark]

You make me chuckle.

If I could understand what he was saying, I might chuckle too. Or maybe that's the reason yo be chuckling?

 

[toophly1124]

If I could understand what he was saying, I might chuckle too. Or maybe that's the reason yo be chuckling?

Exactly lol

 

[bax4444]

You guys havent got a clue ... We just havent learned the 7 Ps yet! Giveus another chance and well stop pissin in the wind, in fact we'll pi$$ on dook, fsu and uva too!!!

Golden showers are fun.

 

[TarHeelMark]

Golden showers are fun.

R. Kelly concurs.

 

[toophly1124]

Golden showers are fun.