Quick stuff (Furman game)...

[gary-7]

...and we left on an improved note.

Look, let's get this out of the way: I'm not gonna bang on defense because going in, I knew Furman would be a "hard guard" for our lineup, what with trying to keep up with four Guards and a HS-sized Big. Our effort on that end was actually mostly good. Tonight was more about the offensive end. and truth be known, pretty much every one of these posts should focus on whether or not, and to what degree, we played "Carolina basketball".
When we do? Y'all should easily see what ths team can be. When we don't? We're just easy to defend.

- So, we came out like we were gonna do some things right: Pounding hi-lo entries and hitting lanes on the Secondary. But just like that, after the under-12 we got friggin LAZY on offense: Pitiful cuts and screen "attempts" (putting it kindly) and weak post-ups, combined with too damned much dribbling, not running the floor, and forgetting to pass ahead in transition. The result? They tied us at the half.

- Gladly, it seems that Hubert's halftime speech included a healthy dose of "Carolina basketball", because we came back out smoking. I'm sure most of you joined me in rejoicing (I shouted "YES! FINALLY!") when we executed a couple of textbook Secondaries, even passing ahead to the rim-runner for a dunk on a great look by Caleb.

Really folks, that's the nutshell deal. For the most part, in the second half we just executed Carolina fundamentals better, and were consistent enough in our defensive effort to make their contested 3 percetage come down to earth, and we dominated the glass as we should. The only real adjustment I saw on defense, was we were content to let them play 1-on-1 in the paint and guarded against kick-outs.

Random stuff:
- Manek did an old-school blue-collar job inside, controlling rebounds and put-backs, often with guys hanging on him. Garcia got his points from being active, although he needs to do mucho extra work with Sean on post moves. We're still not "rewarding" the poster from our Guards, but Bacot worked hard tonight.

- Poor Leaky. Starts feeling it from 3 and they take one away from him. Seriously though, we don't need him to be a long-range marksman, BUT he does need to take that shot occasionally to keep defenses honest.

- With full knowledge that casual fans will just look at box scores, RJ ended getting some unnecesarily hard Assists, in that if he'd just look up sooner and pass ahead instead of taking more dribbles, they'd be easy.

- We're getting almost nothing from the two-Hi post sets (I refuse to call it "Horns" because it's a dumb name and Bilas is in love with). We're much better when our Bigs are stressing the defense with low block or hi-lo action. Oh, and reversing the ball with the pass is a good thing because it creates better entry angles.

- Really tight rotation tonight, and it also points up a deficit in our roster at the 2 position.

Anyway, excellent second half focus reversed a disappointing first. Are we ready for UCLA? We'll see, but I'll tell ya, it starts with dedication to playing Carolina basketball from the tip...

 

[Tarheel75]

Amen Gary.

Let me start my comments on this game with a mention to all about our rotations, or the lack of them.

I guess there are those who have to find something to complain about. For instance: We heard over and over during Roy's tenure that he plays too many, or, that he will not call a TO when many believe that he should have. Now we have basically the same folks who are bemoaning what they perceive to be a 6–7-man rotation by HD and that he is playing this player or that player too many minutes, and the bench is not being utilized and those on the bench are not getting the chance to develop.

I GET what you are saying, however, I know that most of you and most likely all of those complaining have not come to understand team building dynamics. As a player, you have to reach a threshold in continuity of play on both ends of the court before a coach(es) will have enough trust in you to play extended minutes.

For example: Ant Harris. He is getting more minutes because he has earned the trust of the coaching staff by his improved standard of play, and his time on the court in the last few games has been a positive influence on team play. Basically, Ant has earned his time on the court by playing some damn good defense. While he is not a scoring machine, he is not shy about trying to score and he looks to pass a lot more than shoot, and he deserves the minutes he is getting.

Dunn is another example: He has earned his playing time, and I agree that he should have gotten a little more tonight, and he would have if both Caleb and RJ had not slowed the game down and held the ball until the clock run down, and it's not a complaint by me about those two, as they were looking for Furman to foul and they didn't so the time just run out.

Again...., you have to keep in mind that playing time is earned during practices. You show development growth in practice by understanding your assignments on both sides of the ball and carrying them out in a game and by carrying your development onto the court. To reiterate: if a player is not playing, he has not proven that he is trustworthy either in his assignments or he is a poor or bad match-up on the court.

As we saw tonight...., Walton got just 7 minutes and Styles-Dunn-& -McKoy got little to no run but would have if the game had broken just a little bit around the last 2:30 in this game. The 4 guards and the Post player were bad matchups for McKoy and Walton, as Walton could not stay with any of those guys he tried to guard and on offense, just stood or moved a few steps and stood again, and Mckoy is not quick enough to have covered his man, whichever guard that would have been.

As for the game: From my seat in the dome, it appears that we are starting to see
lights coming on for Garcia, RJ, & Caleb. Garcia only took 1 shot that I felt was questionable, and he got bailed out with a called foul on that shot that would have never gone in, but...., he drew the foul nonetheless and he is starting to share the ball by making some good pass offs to open players and that's a big plus going forward if he continues sharing the rock. RJ had 7 assists which is really good, but, as Gary has mentioned he could have had more if would just look up running down the court as he missed several opportunities to get some easy baskets.

Caleb had a very good game I thought. He didn't press by driving, but distributed the ball well, and made some critical 3 pointers for us. Armando was good, but I get so damned irritated with him for bringing the ball down to his waist and getting it slapped out of his hands, and of course, missing several shots right at the rim. This seems to be a recurring problem with not just Bacot, but with Manek and Garcia as well. Need to fix that if possible...... and it is.

Our defense in the 2nd half was great. Furman made what..., 2-18 from 3 in the 2nd half from 3 after blistering the nets 8-15 in the 1st half? Furman shoots 40% for the game as we held them to 28% on 2 pointers and 11% on 3 pointers in the 2nd half.

If you were thinking that Furman was a pushover, and we would run away from them, well, we didn't until about mid-way through the 2nd half. Furman is well coached and have some very good players and are a good team. We just have better.

Another sign that our defense is getting a bit better is that we were only called for 10 fouls the entire game. Playing good defense w/o fouling is a very good sign. Doesn't mean by any stretch that we will be consistently playing that kind of defense, but we can.

Want to give a shout out to Leaky, he played well, and he made some shots and that's nothing but gravy for us. Now...., it's on like neck bone in our next game with UCLA. I don't know that we will win that one, I just know that if we play to our potential on both sides, we can win it. It will be an interesting watch huh?

 

[alabamaheel]

Amen Gary.

Let me start my comments on this game with a mention to all about our rotations, or the lack of them.

I guess there are those who have to find something to complain about. For instance: We heard over and over during Roy's tenure that he plays too many, or, that he will not call a TO when many believe that he should have. Now we have basically the same folks who are bemoaning what they perceive to be a 6–7-man rotation by HD and that he is playing this player or that player too many minutes, and the bench is not being utilized and those on the bench are not getting the chance to develop.

I GET what you are saying, however, I know that most of you and most likely all of those complaining have not come to understand team building dynamics. As a player, you have to reach a threshold in continuity of play on both ends of the court before a coach(es) will have enough trust in you to play extended minutes.

For example: Ant Harris. He is getting more minutes because he has earned the trust of the coaching staff by his improved standard of play, and his time on the court in the last few games has been a positive influence on team play. Basically, Ant has earned his time on the court by playing some damn good defense. While he is not a scoring machine, he is not shy about trying to score and he looks to pass a lot more than shoot, and he deserves the minutes he is getting.

Dunn is another example: He has earned his playing time, and I agree that he should have gotten a little more tonight, and he would have if both Caleb and RJ had not slowed the game down and held the ball until the clock run down, and it's not a complaint by me about those two, as they were looking for Furman to foul and they didn't so the time just run out.

Again...., you have to keep in mind that playing time is earned during practices. You show development growth in practice by understanding your assignments on both sides of the ball and carrying them out in a game and by carrying your development onto the court. To reiterate: if a player is not playing, he has not proven that he is trustworthy either in his assignments or he is a poor or bad match-up on the court.

As we saw tonight...., Walton got just 7 minutes and Styles-Dunn-& -McKoy got little to no run but would have if the game had broken just a little bit around the last 2:30 in this game. The 4 guards and the Post player were bad matchups for McKoy and Walton, as Walton could not stay with any of those guys he tried to guard and on offense, just stood or moved a few steps and stood again, and Mckoy is not quick enough to have covered his man, whichever guard that would have been.

As for the game: From my seat in the dome, it appears that we are starting to see
lights coming on for Garcia, RJ, & Caleb. Garcia only took 1 shot that I felt was questionable, and he got bailed out with a called foul on that shot that would have never gone in, but...., he drew the foul nonetheless and he is starting to share the ball by making some good pass offs to open players and that's a big plus going forward if he continues sharing the rock. RJ had 7 assists which is really good, but, as Gary has mentioned he could have had more if would just look up running down the court as he missed several opportunities to get some easy baskets.

Caleb had a very good game I thought. He didn't press by driving, but distributed the ball well, and made some critical 3 pointers for us. Armando was good, but I get so damned irritated with him for bringing the ball down to his waist and getting it slapped out of his hands, and of course, missing several shots right at the rim. This seems to be a recurring problem with not just Bacot, but with Manek and Garcia as well. Need to fix that if possible...... and it is.

Our defense in the 2nd half was great. Furman made what..., 2-18 from 3 in the 2nd half from 3 after blistering the nets 8-15 in the 1st half? Furman shoots 40% for the game as we held them to 28% on 2 pointers and 11% on 3 pointers in the 2nd half.

If you were thinking that Furman was a pushover, and we would run away from them, well, we didn't until about mid-way through the 2nd half. Furman is well coached and have some very good players and are a good team. We just have better.

Another sign that our defense is getting a bit better is that we were only called for 10 fouls the entire game. Playing good defense w/o fouling is a very good sign. Doesn't mean by any stretch that we will be consistently playing that kind of defense, but we can.

Want to give a shout out to Leaky, he played well, and he made some shots and that's nothing but gravy for us. Now...., it's on like neck bone in our next game with UCLA. I don't know that we will win that one, I just know that if we play to our potential on both sides, we can win it. It will be an interesting watch huh?

75 what are your opinions on Walton? I understand the old old go to that his defense is lacking. But as you said above, you earn a coaches trust. By that statement, Roy trusted him, but Hubert? Is there something we are missing. I’ll admit that I’m perplexed. Lol I feel like I’m related to this kid as much as I find myself taking up for him. Just for the record I’ve never met him.

 

[gary-7]

75 what are your opinions on Walton? I understand the old old go to that his defense is lacking. But as you said above, you earn a coaches trust. By that statement, Roy trusted him, but Hubert? Is there something we are missing. I’ll admit that I’m perplexed. Lol I feel like I’m related to this kid as much as I find myself taking up for him. Just for the record I’ve never met him.

I'm sure 75 will weigh in, but from this ol' coach's eye Kerwin's single biggest causative issue (on both ends) is his footwork. I dunno if it's physical/congenital, but I've honestly never seen a D1 wing with such bad feet. It's the root of his defensive problems, his lazy looking passes at times, and his inability to create shots for himself. In a nutshell, it looks like he's on skates.

 

[alabamaheel]

I'm sure 75 will weigh in, but from this ol' coach's eye Kerwin's single biggest causative issue (on both ends) is his footwork. I dunno if it's physical/congenital, but I've honestly never seen a D1 wing with such bad feet. It's the root of his defensive problems, his lazy looking passes at times, and his inability to create shots for himself. In a nutshell, it looks like he's on skates.

Why did this become an issue this year would be a great question? I do know he has a pass per game that is horrible but all of them do. But, he passes better than most, especially the post, something you long to see more of. He’s not a creator or driver. We don’t need him to be. Leaky can’t shoot, we don’t need him to be a shooter.

 

[gary-7]

Amen Gary.

Let me start my comments on this game with a mention to all about our rotations, or the lack of them.

I guess there are those who have to find something to complain about. For instance: We heard over and over during Roy's tenure that he plays too many, or, that he will not call a TO when many believe that he should have. Now we have basically the same folks who are bemoaning what they perceive to be a 6–7-man rotation by HD and that he is playing this player or that player too many minutes, and the bench is not being utilized and those on the bench are not getting the chance to develop.

I GET what you are saying, however, I know that most of you and most likely all of those complaining have not come to understand team building dynamics. As a player, you have to reach a threshold in continuity of play on both ends of the court before a coach(es) will have enough trust in you to play extended minutes.

For example: Ant Harris. He is getting more minutes because he has earned the trust of the coaching staff by his improved standard of play, and his time on the court in the last few games has been a positive influence on team play. Basically, Ant has earned his time on the court by playing some damn good defense. While he is not a scoring machine, he is not shy about trying to score and he looks to pass a lot more than shoot, and he deserves the minutes he is getting.

Dunn is another example: He has earned his playing time, and I agree that he should have gotten a little more tonight, and he would have if both Caleb and RJ had not slowed the game down and held the ball until the clock run down, and it's not a complaint by me about those two, as they were looking for Furman to foul and they didn't so the time just run out.

Again...., you have to keep in mind that playing time is earned during practices. You show development growth in practice by understanding your assignments on both sides of the ball and carrying them out in a game and by carrying your development onto the court. To reiterate: if a player is not playing, he has not proven that he is trustworthy either in his assignments or he is a poor or bad match-up on the court.

As we saw tonight...., Walton got just 7 minutes and Styles-Dunn-& -McKoy got little to no run but would have if the game had broken just a little bit around the last 2:30 in this game. The 4 guards and the Post player were bad matchups for McKoy and Walton, as Walton could not stay with any of those guys he tried to guard and on offense, just stood or moved a few steps and stood again, and Mckoy is not quick enough to have covered his man, whichever guard that would have been.

As for the game: From my seat in the dome, it appears that we are starting to see
lights coming on for Garcia, RJ, & Caleb. Garcia only took 1 shot that I felt was questionable, and he got bailed out with a called foul on that shot that would have never gone in, but...., he drew the foul nonetheless and he is starting to share the ball by making some good pass offs to open players and that's a big plus going forward if he continues sharing the rock. RJ had 7 assists which is really good, but, as Gary has mentioned he could have had more if would just look up running down the court as he missed several opportunities to get some easy baskets.

Caleb had a very good game I thought. He didn't press by driving, but distributed the ball well, and made some critical 3 pointers for us. Armando was good, but I get so damned irritated with him for bringing the ball down to his waist and getting it slapped out of his hands, and of course, missing several shots right at the rim. This seems to be a recurring problem with not just Bacot, but with Manek and Garcia as well. Need to fix that if possible...... and it is.

Our defense in the 2nd half was great. Furman made what..., 2-18 from 3 in the 2nd half from 3 after blistering the nets 8-15 in the 1st half? Furman shoots 40% for the game as we held them to 28% on 2 pointers and 11% on 3 pointers in the 2nd half.

If you were thinking that Furman was a pushover, and we would run away from them, well, we didn't until about mid-way through the 2nd half. Furman is well coached and have some very good players and are a good team. We just have better.

Another sign that our defense is getting a bit better is that we were only called for 10 fouls the entire game. Playing good defense w/o fouling is a very good sign. Doesn't mean by any stretch that we will be consistently playing that kind of defense, but we can.

Want to give a shout out to Leaky, he played well, and he made some shots and that's nothing but gravy for us. Now...., it's on like neck bone in our next game with UCLA. I don't know that we will win that one, I just know that if we play to our potential on both sides, we can win it. It will be an interesting watch huh?

In other good news, Oats and bama got their street-ball playing asses exposed tonight 😏

 

[gary-7]

Why did this become an issue this year would be a great question? I do know he has a pass per game that is horrible but all of them do. But, he passes better than most, especially the post, something you long to see more of. He’s not a creator or driver. We don’t need him to be. Leaky can’t shoot, we don’t need him to be a shooter.

To be brutally honest, it was every bit as much an issue last season. Roy just chose to live with it (and again being brutally honest, way more than he should have). I was sincerely hoping Kerwin's off-season work would focus on that and lead to improved footwork, but thus far.... welp, it hasn't.

 

[alabamaheel]

In other good news, Oats and bama got their street-ball playing asses exposed tonight 😏

Lol and they got it handed from street ballers!

 

[gary-7]

Lol and they got it handed from street ballers!

I will say Memphis played a much more disciplined game than I've ever seen under Penny. Hell, they just lost to an awful UGA team. Yikes! Maybe they're finally listening to Larry.

 

[alabamaheel]

To be brutally honest, it was every bit as much an issue last season. Roy just chose to live with it (and again being brutally honest, way more than he should have). I was sincerely hoping Kerwin's off-season work would focus on that and lead to improved footwork, but thus far.... welp, it hasn't.

It’s hard to swallow and I’ll be the first to admit it Gary. I truly believe he’s one of the higher iq guys that we have. I just can’t fathom that these are the issues at hand. I think there’s something going on but have no idea. I do know that we won’t go far with a six guy rotation. So, coach better bow up and get something out of him or he’s gone. Footwork or not, at one time he could shoot and in my opinion be average on defense. Very few do both well. Shooters have to shoot but you have to get pt first.

 

[alabamaheel]

I will say Memphis played a much more disciplined game than I've ever seen under Penny. Hell, they just lost to an awful UGA team. Yikes! Maybe they're finally listening to Larry.

Man I didn’t realize how old Larry looks. Wow

 

[gary-7]

It’s hard to swallow and I’ll be the first to admit it Gary. I truly believe he’s one of the higher iq guys that we have. I just can’t fathom that these are the issues at hand. I think there’s something going on but have no idea. I do know that we won’t go far with a six guy rotation. So, coach better bow up and get something out of him or he’s gone. Footwork or not, at one time he could shoot and in my opinion be average on defense. Very few do both well. Shooters have to shoot but you have to get pt first.

Actually, I agree on the IQ part, which points up the footwork thing even louder as the source of his problems.

 

[gauchoheel]

I guess there are those who have to find something to complain about. For instance: We heard over and over during Roy's tenure that he plays too many, or, that he will not call a TO when many believe that he should have. Now we have basically the same folks who are bemoaning what they perceive to be a 6–7-man rotation by HD and that he is playing this player or that player too many minutes, and the bench is not being utilized and those on the bench are not getting the chance to develop.

I GET what you are saying, however, I know that most of you and most likely all of those complaining have not come to understand team building dynamics. As a player, you have to reach a threshold in continuity of play on both ends of the court before a coach(es) will have enough trust in you to play extended minutes.

For example: Ant Harris. He is getting more minutes because he has earned the trust of the coaching staff by his improved standard of play, and his time on the court in the last few games has been a positive influence on team play. Basically, Ant has earned his time on the court by playing some damn good defense. While he is not a scoring machine, he is not shy about trying to score and he looks to pass a lot more than shoot, and he deserves the minutes he is getting.

Dunn is another example: He has earned his playing time, and I agree that he should have gotten a little more tonight, and he would have if both Caleb and RJ had not slowed the game down and held the ball until the clock run down, and it's not a complaint by me about those two, as they were looking for Furman to foul and they didn't so the time just run out.

Again...., you have to keep in mind that playing time is earned during practices. You show development growth in practice by understanding your assignments on both sides of the ball and carrying them out in a game and by carrying your development onto the court. To reiterate: if a player is not playing, he has not proven that he is trustworthy either in his assignments or he is a poor or bad match-up on the court.

I really respect your opinion 75, but I think you've got it backwards here. I hardly remember anyone criticizing Roy for playing too many guys. Most UNC fans LOVED this about Roy and constantly mocked K and dook for how short their rotations were. Now I see some of those same fans trying to flip and defend Hubert's tight rotations. It seems like cognitive dissonance and Carolina blue glasses to me.

To give a few examples:

1. In the 2017's seasons first game against Tulane Roy gave freshmen Seventh Woods + B-Rob each got 10. They both were not any good that year, yet averaged 8 minutes a game.
2. In 2018 freshmen Sterling Manley, Brandon Huffman, and Andrew Platek got 14, 10, and 9 minutes in the first game against Northern Iowa. Sterling was the only one any good that year, yet they averaged 10, 3, and 8 minutes per game that year.
3. 2019's debut game freshman Leaky Black got 8 minutes, and averaged 10 for the year. He was not particularly good back then (though he did shoot well!).
4. 2021 saw freshmen Kerwin Walton get 11 minutes and Puff Johnson get 3. We all know what Walton did, and Puff averaged 4 minutes a game.

This is especially relevant because all these players were ranked similarly or lower to Styles and Dunn recruiting-wise. Dunn has 12 minutes all year! He played 37 seconds today. It was basically one possession. Styles has played 11 minutes this season. Seventh Woods got as many minutes in one game as a frosh (and he wasn't good even as a senior) as Dunn / Styles have in 10 games.

There is clearly a major and marked difference here. Hubert is playing way tighter rotations than Roy, and I don't buy that all of McCoy/Styles/Dunn (even Harris + Walton to a degree) are earning so much less time than all those other previously mentioned guys. It's just a stylistic difference: Hubert is playing to maximize odds of winning each game; Roy gave up a bit of win probability during the regular season to get everyone playing time.

So we can't say that what Hubert is doing is obviously right, unless we're willing to say that Roy was obviously wrong. I don't have a super strong opinion (intuitively I liked Roy's approach for the mid-major games at least though), and I won't kid myself to think playing the end of bench guys is going to make a huge difference to the team's odds this March.

I think it ultimately comes down to if there are additional transfers at the end of the season. I've never seen any research on it, but I thought Roy's deeper rotations were a big part of why we had so few transfers historically (and places like dook / syracuse so many). If an additional guy or more transfers each year, it's probably better to find them 5-10 minutes for half a season to keep them happy. If no extra players transfer, then sure let's play to win each game.

 

[dlew71]

Actually, I agree on the IQ part, which points up the footwork thing even louder as the source of his problems.

.02 I believe he is " mechanical" in his thinking and not fluid, hence he needs plays called and doesn't do well free lance, his footwork is okay when he knows in advance what he is planning to do but on the fly the brain and body is not synchronized, I can relate 😜

 

[dlew71]

I really respect your opinion 75, but I think you've got it backwards here. I hardly remember anyone criticizing Roy for playing too many guys. Most UNC fans LOVED this about Roy and constantly mocked K and dook for how short their rotations were. Now I see some of those same fans trying to flip and defend Hubert's tight rotations. It seems like cognitive dissonance and Carolina blue glasses to me.

To give a few examples:

1. In the 2017's seasons first game against Tulane Roy gave freshmen Seventh Woods + B-Rob each got 10. They both were not any good that year, yet averaged 8 minutes a game.
2. In 2018 freshmen Sterling Manley, Brandon Huffman, and Andrew Platek got 14, 10, and 9 minutes in the first game against Northern Iowa. Sterling was the only one any good that year, yet they averaged 10, 3, and 8 minutes per game that year.
3. 2019's debut game freshman Leaky Black got 8 minutes, and averaged 10 for the year. He was not particularly good back then (though he did shoot well!).
4. 2021 saw freshmen Kerwin Walton get 11 minutes and Puff Johnson get 3. We all know what Walton did, and Puff averaged 4 minutes a game.

This is especially relevant because all these players were ranked similarly or lower to Styles and Dunn recruiting-wise. Dunn has 12 minutes all year! He played 37 seconds today. It was basically one possession. Styles has played 11 minutes this season. Seventh Woods got as many minutes in one game as a frosh (and he wasn't good even as a senior) as Dunn / Styles have in 10 games.

There is clearly a major and marked difference here. Hubert is playing way tighter rotations than Roy, and I don't buy that all of McCoy/Styles/Dunn (even Harris + Walton to a degree) are earning so much less time than all those other previously mentioned guys. It's just a stylistic difference: Hubert is playing to maximize odds of winning each game; Roy gave up a bit of win probability during the regular season to get everyone playing time.

So we can't say that what Hubert is doing is obviously right, unless we're willing to say that Roy was obviously wrong. I don't have a super strong opinion (intuitively I liked Roy's approach for the mid-major games at least though), and I won't kid myself to think playing the end of bench guys is going to make a huge difference to the team's odds this March.

I think it ultimately comes down to if there are additional transfers at the end of the season. I've never seen any research on it, but I thought Roy's deeper rotations were a big part of why we had so few transfers historically (and places like dook / syracuse so many). If an additional guy or more transfers each year, it's probably better to find them 5-10 minutes for half a season to keep them happy. If no extra players transfer, then sure let's play to win each game.

Regarding next year there should be plenty of minutes available for Styles & Dunn given Love, Manek, Bacot, Leaky all moving on most likely

 

[gobblercalls]

Why did this become an issue this year would be a great question? I do know he has a pass per game that is horrible but all of them do. But, he passes better than most, especially the post, something you long to see more of. He’s not a creator or driver. We don’t need him to be. Leaky can’t shoot, we don’t need him to be a shooter.

Because Roy had no choice. He didn't have anybody else that throw the ball in the ocean! Walton had the 1 ability that no other player had. That's obviously not the case this year.

 

[Bubspub88]

The defense in the first half annoyed me but it was not totally unexpected. Furman has good players and they just play a different style owing to their lack of height. Hard to really adjust especially for the bigs. I was hoping their legs would start to give in second half after jacking up so many 3;s and they did. I did throw some things a few (okay MANY) times due to all the damn dribbling. One possession by RJ I think he dribbled for about 12 or 15 seconds and then threw up air ball as the clock was winding down.

After the transition dunk by Bacot on the awesome look-ahead by love I did notice Armando pointing back to the passer. LOVED that!! Still wish Manek would get a few buckets inside before he starts jacking 3's. Gonna be a huge test against the Bruins this weekend.

Honestly, UNC has not won many of these non-conf games against quality (and better on paper at least) P5 teams recently. I think the way the Heels play will be good barometer for what the rest of the season will bring. Can they put the bed-crapping against tenn out of their minds? Is the new and improved defense due to execution or just playing opponents with lesser talent? Can they shoot the long ball that well when they really need to?

 

[Lewis&Miller]

It was a win is a win basically. Hubert plays to win first and foremost. He determined after the Purdue/Tennessee weekend, running and gunning was not the answer. Hubert had to reign in these players in order to try and build back. He sees Carolina basketball as winning not style. We may get to that point but it will be down the road and not soon.

Hubert uses one word religiously, "process". He's playing 7 players because it is easier to teach/ implement/accomplish execution in a small sample size. Control the process. You can't play fewer. We executed in both phases of the game the first 10 minutes of the second half vs Furman, but could not sustain. That last 10 minutes(when the game should have evolved into a blowout) had to be disappointing but not unexpected from his viewpoint. It just shows we are going to see a 7 man rotation for quite some time.

 

[Tarheel75]

I really respect your opinion 75, but I think you've got it backwards here. I hardly remember anyone criticizing Roy for playing too many guys. Most UNC fans LOVED this about Roy and constantly mocked K and dook for how short their rotations were. Now I see some of those same fans trying to flip and defend Hubert's tight rotations. It seems like cognitive dissonance and Carolina blue glasses to me.

To give a few examples:

1. In the 2017's seasons first game against Tulane Roy gave freshmen Seventh Woods + B-Rob each got 10. They both were not any good that year, yet averaged 8 minutes a game.
2. In 2018 freshmen Sterling Manley, Brandon Huffman, and Andrew Platek got 14, 10, and 9 minutes in the first game against Northern Iowa. Sterling was the only one any good that year, yet they averaged 10, 3, and 8 minutes per game that year.
3. 2019's debut game freshman Leaky Black got 8 minutes, and averaged 10 for the year. He was not particularly good back then (though he did shoot well!).
4. 2021 saw freshmen Kerwin Walton get 11 minutes and Puff Johnson get 3. We all know what Walton did, and Puff averaged 4 minutes a game.

This is especially relevant because all these players were ranked similarly or lower to Styles and Dunn recruiting-wise. Dunn has 12 minutes all year! He played 37 seconds today. It was basically one possession. Styles has played 11 minutes this season. Seventh Woods got as many minutes in one game as a frosh (and he wasn't good even as a senior) as Dunn / Styles have in 10 games.

There is clearly a major and marked difference here. Hubert is playing way tighter rotations than Roy, and I don't buy that all of McCoy/Styles/Dunn (even Harris + Walton to a degree) are earning so much less time than all those other previously mentioned guys. It's just a stylistic difference: Hubert is playing to maximize odds of winning each game; Roy gave up a bit of win probability during the regular season to get everyone playing time.

So we can't say that what Hubert is doing is obviously right, unless we're willing to say that Roy was obviously wrong. I don't have a super strong opinion (intuitively I liked Roy's approach for the mid-major games at least though), and I won't kid myself to think playing the end of bench guys is going to make a huge difference to the team's odds this March.

I think it ultimately comes down to if there are additional transfers at the end of the season. I've never seen any research on it, but I thought Roy's deeper rotations were a big part of why we had so few transfers historically (and places like dook / syracuse so many). If an additional guy or more transfers each year, it's probably better to find them 5-10 minutes for half a season to keep them happy. If no extra players transfer, then sure let's play to win each game.

Cognitive dissonance? Not a chance. Not that I disagree with what you posted, I actually agree with most of it.

If that were the case, it would mean that I am misremembering a lot about Roy's tenure and that my thoughts and posts are inconsistent with the realities of his tenure.

Maybe you have forgotten the constant clamoring and complaining directed at Roy for playing so many players that certain players could not get in a rhythm during games and that his substitution patterns were crazy or stupid thus killing our teams momentum in games? This was a mantra that was repeated over and over along with his refusal to call a TO in order to slow or stop an opponent's momentum during the last 3 years, and even before that to a somewhat lesser degree.

Roy's style and Hubert's style are just different. The biggest difference in style that I know for a fact is that Hubert's coaching acumen parallels the coach that he played for (Coach Smith). DES had only 1 year that he had to play more than 7-8 and that was 1994 with Sheed, Jerry, and McInnis. Most do not know this, but that was the most difficult year in coaching that he ever had. He admitted this off the record. Too much talent and not enough minutes. (And yes, he admitted that Sheed should have started), and it cost them a national championship. He also admitted that he would not build another team with that kind of talent, as it was impossible to keep all players happy with their court time.

If you, as a coach, are winning a good deal more than you are losing, then your style is the correct one regardless of what critiques we want to apply to it. Currently, we are 8-2 and that stat indicates that as of this time in the season, his style and coaching decisions on playing time for individual players is the right one.

I have read posts on here about concerns that we will have a player's transferring due to not getting playing time that they feel they should due to Hubert's coaching philosophy. LET THEM GO. Hubert has stated that he wants players that want to be at UNC, so, if a player wants to transfer, that will mean that he doesn't seriously want to be at Carolina. It simply means that he wants to play more regardless of whether he is entitled to more time than he earns. It would not surprise me at all if there were transfers in the future given the "I want it now" culture that exists in so many programs. I don't think that we will see this culture within the UNC program due to the fact that Hubert is closely following his primary mentor's example.

 

[Tarheel75]

75 what are your opinions on Walton? I understand the old old go to that his defense is lacking. But as you said above, you earn a coaches trust. By that statement, Roy trusted him, but Hubert? Is there something we are missing. I’ll admit that I’m perplexed. Lol I feel like I’m related to this kid as much as I find myself taking up for him. Just for the record I’ve never met him.

Let's see.....

My opinion? Ok, here it is, I have said this before about him that he was an unknown quantity last year and was not heavily guarded for much of last season but was brought to the top of opponents scouting reports because he could shoot, and he can shoot, very well. What a lot of folks are not remembering is just how mediocre or average to below average that team was last year and he was our only consistent 3-point shooting threat.

He also made it abundantly clear that he was slow of foot and had lateral movement issues which made him a BIG liability on the defensive side, and he simply would not work to create himself shots. He stood in certain spots and waited for the ball to come to him and if open, he shot it and to our delight as fans, we loved that. His issues are his not working to get open shots for himself, and contrary to what I have read in some posts, he is NOT good when passing the ball. His passes are lazy and often result in TO's due to when and where he passes. He telegraphs his passes a lot.

In order for him to get to play more, it's my thinking that he will have to learn to create shots for himself and work extremely hard to get better defensively. He is a terrible defender at the moment. Also, go read Gary's description above about him looking like he is on skates...., perfect description.

 

[TarHeelMark]

Let's see.....

My opinion? Ok, here it is, I have said this before about him that he was an unknown quantity last year and was not heavily guarded for much of last season but was brought to the top of opponents scouting reports because he could shoot, and he can shoot, very well. What a lot of folks are not remembering is just how mediocre or average to below average that team was last year and he was our only consistent 3-point shooting threat.

He also made it abundantly clear that he was slow of foot and had lateral movement issues which made him a BIG liability on the defensive side, and he simply would not work to create himself shots. He stood in certain spots and waited for the ball to come to him and if open, he shot it and to our delight as fans, we loved that. His issues are his not working to get open shots for himself, and contrary to what I have read in some posts, he is NOT a good when passing the ball. His passes are lazy and often result in TO's due to when and where he passes. He telegraphs his passes a lot.

In order for him to get to play more, it's my thinking that he will have to learn to create shots for himself and work extremely hard to get better defensively. He is a terrible defender at the moment. Also, go read Gary's description above about him looking like he is on skates...., perfect description.

Good analysis. To my untrained eye, it is easy to see this about Kerwin as well: poor defensive footwork, lazy passes, and little movement on offense*. I really hope he embraces the challenge to improve in these areas, and doesn't settle for the easy way out (transfer portal).

*recommended viewing - Justin Jackson without the ball

 

[alabamaheel]

Let's see.....

My opinion? Ok, here it is, I have said this before about him that he was an unknown quantity last year and was not heavily guarded for much of last season but was brought to the top of opponents scouting reports because he could shoot, and he can shoot, very well. What a lot of folks are not remembering is just how mediocre or average to below average that team was last year and he was our only consistent 3-point shooting threat.

He also made it abundantly clear that he was slow of foot and had lateral movement issues which made him a BIG liability on the defensive side, and he simply would not work to create himself shots. He stood in certain spots and waited for the ball to come to him and if open, he shot it and to our delight as fans, we loved that. His issues are his not working to get open shots for himself, and contrary to what I have read in some posts, he is NOT good when passing the ball. His passes are lazy and often result in TO's due to when and where he passes. He telegraphs his passes a lot.

In order for him to get to play more, it's my thinking that he will have to learn to create shots for himself and work extremely hard to get better defensively. He is a terrible defender at the moment. Also, go read Gary's description above about him looking like he is on skates...., perfect description.

Thanks for your take. I mostly agree. All but with his passing. He’s gonna have one head scratching pass when he’s in there that’s for sure, but he can and has fed the post better than a lot of our current players. Lol that might not be comparing him to much though.

 

[Tarheel75]

Thanks for your take. I mostly agree. All but with his passing. He’s gonna have one head scratching pass when he’s in there that’s for sure, but he can and has fed the post better than a lot of our current players. Lol that might not be comparing him to much though.

Really? I mean..., it's absolutely fine for you to think and say that, if that's really how you see it. I would suggest though that you be mindful of the plus and minus of the posters on the board who think he passes well. How about this...., can you look up his TO's to date? That may change your thinking. But..., if not, as always, stick with what you believe, that's your prerogative, and everyone has opinions. I will be the first to admit that mine are not all encompassing and the right opinions all the time, but I reserve the right to have and express them, and you have the same rights.

 

[alabamaheel]

Really? I mean..., it's absolutely fine for you to think and say that, if that's really how you see it. I would suggest though that you be mindful of the plus and minus of the posters on the board who think he passes well. How about this...., can you look up his TO's to date? That may change your thinking. But..., if not, as always, stick with what you believe, that's your prerogative, and everyone has opinions. I will be the first to admit that mine are not all encompassing and the right opinions all the time, but I reserve the right to have and express them, and you have the same rights.

Well he has 9 in 10 games. That’s less than 1 head scratching TO per game that I said. Interesting

 

[alabamaheel]

Really? I mean..., it's absolutely fine for you to think and say that, if that's really how you see it. I would suggest though that you be mindful of the plus and minus of the posters on the board who think he passes well. How about this...., can you look up his TO's to date? That may change your thinking. But..., if not, as always, stick with what you believe, that's your prerogative, and everyone has opinions. I will be the first to admit that mine are not all encompassing and the right opinions all the time, but I reserve the right to have and express them, and you have the same rights.

And btw my first question was wanting to know if there are any issues with him that you know of with chemistry or off the court stuff? I think you know enough to be dangerous lol. Any info appreciated.

 

[King Coach]

As Gary pointed out, the second half looked like Carolina basketball and that’s where we turned things around.

Bacot looked happy last night as he posted up in spots where he got the ball and scored with ease….didn’t have to catch the ball and try to dribble and spin to the basket. He even ran the floor hard…..even pointed at the passer!

Love and RJ did a good job of feeding the post and realizing this was an inside-out game as we had a huge size advantage…..come Saturday…do your thing because we will need it.

Brother Kerwin……well he’s keeping a great attitude.

Was also encourage by García actually passing the ball back out when doubled.

Leaky played another solid game. Was getting burned a bit on defense by those little fast guards but hell everyone struggled keeping those little guys in front of them….like playing a whole team of Muggsy Bogues.

Still lots of room for improvement…..but got to love winning games while we are improving inch by inch.

 

[King Coach]

Let's see.....

My opinion? Ok, here it is, I have said this before about him that he was an unknown quantity last year and was not heavily guarded for much of last season but was brought to the top of opponents scouting reports because he could shoot, and he can shoot, very well. What a lot of folks are not remembering is just how mediocre or average to below average that team was last year and he was our only consistent 3-point shooting threat.

He also made it abundantly clear that he was slow of foot and had lateral movement issues which made him a BIG liability on the defensive side, and he simply would not work to create himself shots. He stood in certain spots and waited for the ball to come to him and if open, he shot it and to our delight as fans, we loved that. His issues are his not working to get open shots for himself, and contrary to what I have read in some posts, he is NOT good when passing the ball. His passes are lazy and often result in TO's due to when and where he passes. He telegraphs his passes a lot.

In order for him to get to play more, it's my thinking that he will have to learn to create shots for himself and work extremely hard to get better defensively. He is a terrible defender at the moment. Also, go read Gary's description above about him looking like he is on skates...., perfect description.

I agree with your points on Walton. He’s also becoming self-checked by not moving without the ball. Don’t know how his work ethic is but he has to realize the games will only get tougher from here on out. He needs to work harder in his game. Last night was telling when he was in the game at the end with the bench guys.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

I will only add that there is no way to create a credible comparison that proves the false dichotomy quoted below.

"So we can't say that what Hubert is doing is obviously right, unless we're willing to say that Roy was obviously wrong. "

I couldn't disagree with this any stronger! Winning proves that what Hubs is doing is right for THIS team at THIS point in time! Roy having one of the highest winning % in bball history proves he was "right" about his teams at that time too! Both can be different AND right!

Walton was a defensive liability all last year, but who did we have that played any better? AND who did we have that could make a 3? This year we have answers to these questions so he will have to adapt!

Finally, peeps that Transfer due to wanting more playing time without earning it don't fit what we want so good luck to them! (In other words, don't let the doorknob hit ya where the Good Lord split ya!)

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I really respect your opinion 75, but I think you've got it backwards here. I hardly remember anyone criticizing Roy for playing too many guys. Most UNC fans LOVED this about Roy and constantly mocked K and dook for how short their rotations were.

This. There were a few loud voices bitching about going too deep on the bench, but I don't think there were that many such voices.

 

[alabamaheel]

I will only add that there is no way to create a credible comparison that proves the false dichotomy quoted below.

"So we can't say that what Hubert is doing is obviously right, unless we're willing to say that Roy was obviously wrong. "

I couldn't disagree with this any stronger! Winning proves that what Hubs is doing is right for THIS team at THIS point in time! Roy having one of the highest winning % in bball history proves he was "right" about his teams at that time too! Both can be different AND right!

Walton was a defensive liability all last year, but who did we have that played any better? AND who did we have that could make a 3? This year we have answers to these questions so he will have to adapt!

Finally, peeps that Transfer due to wanting more playing time without earning it don't fit what we want so good luck to them! (In other words, don't let the doorknob hit ya where the Good Lord split ya!)

I’m definitely not a psychologist but some great points were made in your post.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

This is especially relevant because all these players were ranked similarly or lower to Styles and Dunn recruiting-wise. Dunn has 12 minutes all year! He played 37 seconds today. It was basically one possession. Styles has played 11 minutes this season. Seventh Woods got as many minutes in one game as a frosh (and he wasn't good even as a senior) as Dunn / Styles have in 10 games.

Both Styles and Dunn had offers from some very good schools - both in conference and nationally. Especially Dunn, for some reason.

Would it surprise anyone if some of those schools (and others) would be happy to snap them up from the portal?

Of course it's possible that they just suck. Can't tell because we don't see them. But somehow I doubt it.

I don't understand Hubert waiting so long to clear the bench in games against creampuffs - especially when he isn't actually clearing the bench. Everyone on the floor at the end was a scholarship player. IIRC, 3 of them (McKoy, Dunn, Styles) appeared for the first time in that final minute.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Regarding next year there should be plenty of minutes available for Styles & Dunn given Love, Manek, Bacot, Leaky all moving on most likely

That's what we thought about Kessler, too.

I suspect that kids make up their minds whether they are happy before the end of the season. Just knowing they'll get lots of PT next year doesn't counter the current disappointment.

But that's just a guess.

 

[Tarheel75]

As Gary pointed out, the second half looked like Carolina basketball and that’s where we turned things around.

Bacot looked happy last night as he posted up in spots where he got the ball and scored with ease….didn’t have to catch the ball and try to dribble and spin to the basket. He even ran the floor hard…..even pointed at the passer!

Love and RJ did a good job of feeding the post and realizing this was an inside-out game as we had a huge size advantage…..come Saturday…do your thing because we will need it.

Brother Kerwin……well he’s keeping a great attitude.

Was also encourage by García actually passing the ball back out when doubled.

Leaky played another solid game. Was getting burned a bit on defense by those little fast guards but hell everyone struggled keeping those little guys in front of them….like playing a whole team of Muggsy Bogues.

Still lots of room for improvement…..but got to love winning games while we are improving inch by inch.

All players get burned occasionally, it's a part of the game. You cannot be perfect when playing defense. I will suggest to everyone to look at the last 5 games and realize that the opposition has not scored 65 points. If we can maintain that and score to our mean, we will win most games. And...., it makes little difference who the competition is, just compare and relive the first 3 games to the last 5 and that will show you progress is being made on both ends.

 

[Tarheel75]

And btw my first question was wanting to know if there are any issues with him that you know of with chemistry or off the court stuff? I think you know enough to be dangerous lol. Any info appreciated.

There are no chemistry issues with Walton that I am aware of, and I would know for sure.

 

[alabamaheel]

There are no chemistry issues with Walton that I am aware of, and I would know for sure.

Thanks man. He just needs to bow up and get better.

 

[Tarheel75]

Well he has 9 in 10 games. That’s less than 1 head scratching TO per game that I said. Interesting

Alright now compare his ratio of TO's to minutes played. Then compare Leaky's and Ant's.

 

[alabamaheel]

Alright now compare his ratio of TO's to minutes played. Then compare Leaky's and Ant's.

Well leaky sis definitely better that’s for sure but Ant’s is worse. I expected that because of his earlier play in the year.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

The problem with stats is they don't account for intangibles like: live ball Tos vs Dead ball ones. If KW makes an uncertain flat pass across the top of the key that a player grabs for a runout, it is far worse than Caleb/Leaky sailing a pass out of bounds! If we have just made the second stop in a row that we need to cement a comeback or create distance and then we give it back, it can turn a game! I love KW and I feel like this is piling on, but I think it is fair critique! He has a great attitude and work ethic so I expect he will figure it out before too long. The issue with him having heavy feet can't really be fixed but he can learn to compensate with proper anticipation, understanding of team D concepts, and flat out hustle! (he might need to lose a little mass as well) His shot is too good to stay broken, and once his confidence recovers, it will too! I expect to see Style's role increasing very soon.

Is Puff going to redshirt this year?

BTW: I remember many peeps complaining about Roy going too deep! I think Hubs is has a bit of a Pro attitude toward it (or DES influence ) so I expect him to keep the rotation limited to the ones who have proven trustworthy and who have internalized his system!

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

There are no chemistry issues with Walton that I am aware of, and I would know for sure.

All I know is from watching games. The only chemistry "feeling" I've gotten involves Caleb and RJ. Especially Caleb toward RJ. But both have taciturn, gruff demeanors, so it could be nothing. How do those guys get along in real life?

 

[gary-7]

Both Styles and Dunn had offers from some very good schools - both in conference and nationally. Especially Dunn, for some reason.

Would it surprise anyone if some of those schools (and others) would be happy to snap them up from the portal?

Of course it's possible that they just suck. Can't tell because we don't see them. But somehow I doubt it.

I don't understand Hubert waiting so long to clear the bench in games against creampuffs - especially when he isn't actually clearing the bench. Everyone on the floor at the end was a scholarship player. IIRC, 3 of them (McKoy, Dunn, Styles) appeared for the first time in that final minute.

Our biggest personnel issue right now is the composition of the roster. Styles right now is caught behind several more experienced players at the 3/4 positions. That's not to say he won't show up as we go forward.

On the other hand, we are short-handed at the 2, and Dunn is the only pure 2 on the roster, but he's still feeling his way around. I posted before that (contrary to false narratives) Platek could've helped this team immensely as the primary 2 off the bench. So... with that a moot point, the question now is if Dunn can gain enough confidence to push his way into the rotation?

Hopefully starting with App State, he (and Styles) will get some run so we can see.