It becomes subjective then because what if you beat what everyone thought was a great team in November but really wasn't also. I mean, it is what it is.
That said, UNC is gonna be fine despite the bad loss.
Quick stuff (GaTech game)...
- Thread starter gary-7
- Start date
That said, UNC is gonna be fine despite the bad loss.
Not sure if it has been mentioned but Ingram has been dealing with a wrist injury on his shooting hand since the Kentucky game.
I’m honestly not too concerned with that dude he brings effort/energy every night!
Both Bacot and Trimble had layups that trickled off the rim late in the game where they were fouled.
Go up strong and DUNK THE DANG BALL!!!
Go up strong and DUNK THE DANG BALL!!!
Told yall crazy things happen when we play GT in Atlanta, this isn't the first time! Told ya this was the ultimate trap game well now the trap has snapped shut on us. Cadeau with 5 fouls in less than 8mins and all in the second half, a guy goes white hot out of no where, hits a huge BANKED IN trey late, no foul on that last second RJ drive. Seemed like they were on roller skates all night, couldn't catch the ball clean, couldn't finish easy at the rim ops. GTs best player goes out really early which should have opened the door wide open for Bacot and Ingram, which should have greatly hurt the off side help.
You guys have seen me for how long now begging for JWash to get more minutes are you starting to see why now? 11mins of game time Jwash scored 8points and snagged 5 boards and of those 5 boards 4 of them were offensive boards, 4 of them gave us second chances. Every single time I advance this I get push back about how he gets pushed around, it is like a line that just gets repeated no matter how the kid plays. I simply do not understand why folks are not screaming for this team to go as long as we can and yet still be able to defend, Ingram can and does defend from the 3 AND is a size mismatch in our favor, JWash uses his length pretty well as a defender, he is not a guy that is great at taking on a guard or wing that is down hill driving by him, which of our big men are especially adept at that? I trust JWash more as a jump shooter than I do any other outside of RJ and maybe Ingram, I do trust his jumper more than Ryan's at this point. I honestly do not get why so many are so slow to see this, I do not understand guys! This is a real weapon that we have not been using and a weapon that we needed to have used more last night.
Can someone please share with me why Paxon gets minutes outside of a blow out? I don't know what his +- is but it has to be really bad, it may be historic. I do not see any value his play gives us, I just don't. Withers, man I just don't get it, the kid was coming along, game was coming to him for a nice stretch of games and all the sudden vs FSU he reverts to trying to do to much out side of the offensive flow and did yet again last night. I don't know what it takes for that kid to understand, you may think you are good putting the ball on the floor for more than a bounce or 2 but ya ain't!
Bacot... Well he did get close to a double double with 9 and 9 but last night Bacot should have feasted, he took a snack? Something is not right with Bacot, I think it very well may be a physical issue that he does not want to talk about, I am not sure he is even talking with Hubert about it, what I saw from Bacot last night just is not Bacot. I am not going to fuss much about Ingram, other than I still need him at the 3 with either JWash or JWit at the 4 and I still very much feel that. RJ yet again, 28pts, should have got the foul call on that last attempt, that was a crystal clear foul that was not called.
Cadeau, I agree, most of those fouls were BS but son, you can't even give the refs a chance to blow that whistle on ya, what you give us is to important, you give us the solid ball handler we must have. Cadeau and his big men need to get on the same page, you drive that weak stuff does not play when they have defender waiting for you, slip the ball to a mate and that mates needs to expect it. Ryan, love the kid, he works hard, under estimated defender but that shot either has to get tightened up or you need to slow down the attempts.
This team was not going to go undefeated the rest of the way, last time we lost we went on a really nice run of games, we responded back strong, time to do that again. Trap game is now out of the way, in a way some pressure has been released, practice should be fun...
You guys have seen me for how long now begging for JWash to get more minutes are you starting to see why now? 11mins of game time Jwash scored 8points and snagged 5 boards and of those 5 boards 4 of them were offensive boards, 4 of them gave us second chances. Every single time I advance this I get push back about how he gets pushed around, it is like a line that just gets repeated no matter how the kid plays. I simply do not understand why folks are not screaming for this team to go as long as we can and yet still be able to defend, Ingram can and does defend from the 3 AND is a size mismatch in our favor, JWash uses his length pretty well as a defender, he is not a guy that is great at taking on a guard or wing that is down hill driving by him, which of our big men are especially adept at that? I trust JWash more as a jump shooter than I do any other outside of RJ and maybe Ingram, I do trust his jumper more than Ryan's at this point. I honestly do not get why so many are so slow to see this, I do not understand guys! This is a real weapon that we have not been using and a weapon that we needed to have used more last night.
Can someone please share with me why Paxon gets minutes outside of a blow out? I don't know what his +- is but it has to be really bad, it may be historic. I do not see any value his play gives us, I just don't. Withers, man I just don't get it, the kid was coming along, game was coming to him for a nice stretch of games and all the sudden vs FSU he reverts to trying to do to much out side of the offensive flow and did yet again last night. I don't know what it takes for that kid to understand, you may think you are good putting the ball on the floor for more than a bounce or 2 but ya ain't!
Bacot... Well he did get close to a double double with 9 and 9 but last night Bacot should have feasted, he took a snack? Something is not right with Bacot, I think it very well may be a physical issue that he does not want to talk about, I am not sure he is even talking with Hubert about it, what I saw from Bacot last night just is not Bacot. I am not going to fuss much about Ingram, other than I still need him at the 3 with either JWash or JWit at the 4 and I still very much feel that. RJ yet again, 28pts, should have got the foul call on that last attempt, that was a crystal clear foul that was not called.
Cadeau, I agree, most of those fouls were BS but son, you can't even give the refs a chance to blow that whistle on ya, what you give us is to important, you give us the solid ball handler we must have. Cadeau and his big men need to get on the same page, you drive that weak stuff does not play when they have defender waiting for you, slip the ball to a mate and that mates needs to expect it. Ryan, love the kid, he works hard, under estimated defender but that shot either has to get tightened up or you need to slow down the attempts.
This team was not going to go undefeated the rest of the way, last time we lost we went on a really nice run of games, we responded back strong, time to do that again. Trap game is now out of the way, in a way some pressure has been released, practice should be fun...
DSouthr you are spot on with what you said!
Jwash was great and deserves more minutes!
Pax should never see the floor unless a blowout happens. I think I could do better than him from what I have seen..
Something is definitely wrong with Bacot. I am tired of the excuses people are giving him. He may be playing a different role this year and that's fine. But there comes a time when you have to step up and be a MAN and last night was his chance and he still didnt even have a double-double. GT only had 1 big guy with Ndongo getting hurt and we couldnt feast.. Also, Bacot's new role is supposedly setting screens and opening up the lane for easy baskets. Nothing was easy for Cadeau last night. They swatted everything he put up. When Bacot realized this wasnt working, he should've manned up and played like the pre-season POY he was projected to be!
Ryan hurt us more than help us last night. Reminded me a lot of Love shooting us out of the game..
Jwash was great and deserves more minutes!
Pax should never see the floor unless a blowout happens. I think I could do better than him from what I have seen..
Something is definitely wrong with Bacot. I am tired of the excuses people are giving him. He may be playing a different role this year and that's fine. But there comes a time when you have to step up and be a MAN and last night was his chance and he still didnt even have a double-double. GT only had 1 big guy with Ndongo getting hurt and we couldnt feast.. Also, Bacot's new role is supposedly setting screens and opening up the lane for easy baskets. Nothing was easy for Cadeau last night. They swatted everything he put up. When Bacot realized this wasnt working, he should've manned up and played like the pre-season POY he was projected to be!
Ryan hurt us more than help us last night. Reminded me a lot of Love shooting us out of the game..
It's not a "good loss", but not a bad really bad loss by the tiers as they presently stand either. Tech on the road was a tier 2 game.
They can and do take circumstances into account, but as the starting baseline I like them viewing it in the seasons totality, opposed to opinions on who was "great" at what given point, or overrated. Way too subjective.
Don't disagree with any of this synopsis...BUt even with all the bad we put out there on the floor last night, we still win if Ryan/Ingram have an AVERAGE night offensively. They were so BELOW AVERAGE we couldn't overcome it....and that was just f***ing awful.
Welp, wanna create an upset for an inferior team?... easy, just self-inflict by making every aspect of the game f***ing awful:
- shooting of W I D E - O P E N 3s --- awful
- finishing around the rim thru contact --- awful
- converting EASY bunnies --- awful
- securing loose balls and contested rebounds --- awful
- FT shooting (when we actually got the chance) --- awful
- dictating our tempo --- awful
- and of course it takes opponents playing out of their minds. For example, I've probably seen Sturdivant play live 5 or 6 times over the years and you could leave that jabronie in the gym by himself and he couldn't make that damn many shots --- I suppose that banked heave 3 was par for tonight's course. Nothing you can do about that...
- and, oh dear Lord... after an (at least somewhat) evenly called first half, that crew did an absolute number on us in the second. Tech fouls a LOT, and on both ends, with constant shoves and grabs, as well as offensive push-offs, and yet they sat with 3 team fouls past the under-8, all the while a complete f*** job was coming our way, particularly aimed at our PG.
- and about that: Granted, Eliot shouldn't have given that zebra a chance to call the last one (son, we've GOT to have you on the floor!), but make no mistake, at least 3 of those calls were complete BS, guarding a driver who was blatantly trying to initiate contact the whole way. Here's the thing, EC had a terrific defensive first half, allowing only one made shot (on a switch miss-match) and stoning guys over and over while disrupting passes for TOs. But they kept going at him. Folks, there is a reason for that: Coaches who scout us know what I know, i.e., that #2 is the catalyst that makes this team nearly impossible to deal with (he was +12 in his limited minutes, BTW). Once he was in trouble and then gone we played too much of the game at TECH's tempo.
- Only by finally going to 44 did we speed them up and somehow manage to claw back into a game we had all but lost. I would've like to have seen that sooner. The other positive that got us back in was character and fight, especially from RJ Davis. Little guy did not deserve what happened at the end.
- and finally, there it was. When I saw our set for the last shot I knew exactly what we had called --- get RJ down-hill into a Mando high post hand-off. PERFECT call for that time and score. He was either gonna get a close shot, or a foul, or both. With RJ's proficiency at the floater the only way to prevent that was a foul, and yessir, I'll take Mr. Davis at the line down one with FTs for the win ANY time. We sure as HELL got the foul --- what we DIDN'T get was (what should have been) an EASY call. Hell, as soon as I saw their guy body-block him (not a "bump") I yelled "YES!"... but then there was no whistle. Make no mistake: THAT was just f***ing awful.
Anyway, I don't subscribe to the value of losing a game like this. The only possible good I can imagine is if the guys take a good long look at what we are LEAVING on the floor far too often these days. I shudder to watch the replay at all the misses and giveaways --- hopefully they will shudder as well in the film room. In EC's (ugh) only 21 minutes he had 5 dimes BUT we failed to convert on 7 more (!)... ALL good looks or layups. And hell, when JWash FLUSHED a putback in the first half, for a minute there I thought we actually meant business at the rim tonight... but that didn't carry over. Seth at least got more determined after his initial bunny miss, but Harrison, Mando and Cormac had rough nights. Guys, it's time to stop finessing at the rack. We need all our grown-ass men to play like it Saturday.....
You're lying, period
For the life of me, I don't get trying to scapegoat Pax. He's not been out there long enough to measure an impact, and I'll tell ya, he couldn't have been any less effective than Cormac was during that second half had he gotten more minutes.
I just want to add that Ryan is such a great free throw shooter why does he not do a simple head fake and drive on occasion where if he doesn’t score there is a Good chance he might get fouled. Also every game this year Ingram has posted his defender up in the paint and scored why not last night. I know Tech was credited with 8 blocks but like Ryan he might get fouled and get some free throws….
Despite it all...
- The poor shooting from Harrison and Cormac
- The BS foul calls on EC
- The many missed bunnies
- The "whatever" was going with Armando
- The opponent banking in 3 pointers
Huey Lewis said it best in his song "Sometimes Bad is BAD" and that's sure as hell what that chit show was last night. Officiating was gawd awful and Bacot, Ryan and Ingram were gawd awful and that was that.
WTG Cormac.. 3/14 FG and 3/10 from 3pt and a whopping 2 rebounds. I could hear Roy thinking "Wanda can do better than that" son and he would be correct. And if I'm a coach and a players playing that bad he needs some pine time so it looks like hubcap is reverting to some bad habits by not using his bench (JWASH). Ingram was no better with the same chitty 3/14 on FG's and 2/7 from 3 but at least he manned up on the street team from thug-lanta and pulled down a respectable 13 boards but guys when ya outside and inside shots aint falling you need to either change your shot selection or pass the fng ball to someone else. And what can you say about Bacot who reverted to his old no elevation ways. What more can you say about a 6'10 6 year player that goes 4/8 from the field and I think he only took one shot (a nice hook shot) outside the lane and I know some of his shots never even made it over the rim and tech did not present massive size. And more disappointingly to me was Hubert's lack of use of Jalen Washington. In 11 minutes he was 3/3 from the floor with 5 boards and went to the rack with purpose and it was obvious his length was causing problems but HD didn't feel the same.
And @gary-7 was 100% right when he said that everybody and their sister, including coaches and ref's know if you wanna stop UNC you neutralize EC either with good D or timely officiating and the latter is exactly what happened last night but a veteran, and fairly talented team, should have shown a lot more toughness, as well as basketball IQ, against GT last night than what they did because that's gonna be a fairly regular occurrence moving forward especially in NCAA play. Learn from the loss guys .. you're a better team than what you showed last night. GO HEELS !!
WTG Cormac.. 3/14 FG and 3/10 from 3pt and a whopping 2 rebounds. I could hear Roy thinking "Wanda can do better than that" son and he would be correct. And if I'm a coach and a players playing that bad he needs some pine time so it looks like hubcap is reverting to some bad habits by not using his bench (JWASH). Ingram was no better with the same chitty 3/14 on FG's and 2/7 from 3 but at least he manned up on the street team from thug-lanta and pulled down a respectable 13 boards but guys when ya outside and inside shots aint falling you need to either change your shot selection or pass the fng ball to someone else. And what can you say about Bacot who reverted to his old no elevation ways. What more can you say about a 6'10 6 year player that goes 4/8 from the field and I think he only took one shot (a nice hook shot) outside the lane and I know some of his shots never even made it over the rim and tech did not present massive size. And more disappointingly to me was Hubert's lack of use of Jalen Washington. In 11 minutes he was 3/3 from the floor with 5 boards and went to the rack with purpose and it was obvious his length was causing problems but HD didn't feel the same.
And @gary-7 was 100% right when he said that everybody and their sister, including coaches and ref's know if you wanna stop UNC you neutralize EC either with good D or timely officiating and the latter is exactly what happened last night but a veteran, and fairly talented team, should have shown a lot more toughness, as well as basketball IQ, against GT last night than what they did because that's gonna be a fairly regular occurrence moving forward especially in NCAA play. Learn from the loss guys .. you're a better team than what you showed last night. GO HEELS !!
Let me add another thought concerning Bacot, I UNDERSTAND my getting some push back when I suggest Bacot is dealing with a physical issue, he seems to be moving OK but the moving with contact just does not seem like the Bacot we have all come to know.
But let's say that it is nothing but Bacot accepting a new role and I believe he has to an extent. But let me ask you, last night, second half, Cadeau goes out with the fouls and we come back with Seth and RJ runs the point, Seth is not the offensive force Cadeau is. Our jump shooting other than RJ was not strong and with Cadeau out we were going to be a half court team for the rest of that game, we are always a half court team when RJ runs the point, as they say in weddings, for better or for worse! So with the guy that takes our tempo out and RJ the only guy dropping jumpers, well there was JWash but we didn't use him in crunch time, wouldn't you figure we would maybe try going to Bacot, that maybe the new role we have Bacot in may be crippled by the loss of Cadeau, with their big men in foul trouble, with Ndongo out early game, wouldn't you figure we would simply go back to Bacot touches in the paint rather than suffer thru all those empty trips highlighted by either a Ingram or Ryan missed jumpers? You tell me, I don't want to tell you that the only reason for that not happening that I can think of is Bacot can't and so why can't he?
For those ITT slamming Mando, some perspective --- in the second half there were like 4 times he busted ass to pin his man and we're not getting him the rock. One time Ingram looked right at him for like 3 seconds and doesn't pass it in and then throws up a heave.
It’s pretty easy to get satisfied once you become a millionaire and then you lose that fire you once had. I’m not sure if that has happened, but it’s entirely possible that NIL Bacot is a different effort level than pre-NIL Bacot. I’d like to see March, 2022 Bacot every game.
Yea I agree…Kid plays hard for the 4 or 5 minutes he plays…It’s something Dean did a lot back in the day…You have to get these guys real game action now instead of blowouts because you might just need them later…
We have all complained since Coach Davis took over about not playing the bench…Now he plays the bench and people still complain…Nature of the beast I guess…Damn if you damn if you don’t…
Hell I wish HD would have put the kid that transferred in from WVA last night…
Think he's annoyed his teammates won't make a shot and give him his 10th assist.
So I don’t think we benefit from Wojcik playing. I don’t think he’s a player at this level.
Wojcik is a role player right? That means we know what to expect from him. It means we don’t know to expect from him every game. That’s the definition of a role player. Withers had a good 3 game stretch. Then had a 3 game stretch where he hasn’t made a field goal. Seth has been up and down the last 5 games. That’s why they’re role players.
Let me put in a ridiculous hypothetical. So minutes means dudes will be better prepared right? Hell, lets play Withers and Wojcik 30 mpg then? Ridiculous right? Heres a different question. If Withers or Wojcik played 30 mpg, would you expect them to produce at any level better than a role player?
To me, Wojcik is an emergency role player. Play him when everyone is in foul trouble or we have injuries (plural). If you think playing him 5 minutes might help us. Fine. I disagree but whatever.
I think you’re putting the team at a massive disadvantage playing Wojcik and Withers together in non garbage time minutes.
And for the record, I’ve said all year this is a pretty strict 8 man rotation in March non garbage time minutes. Maybe you play High and Wojcik in specialty situations but this team’s depth has been a bit overstated. It’s deeper than last year though.
Wojcik also doesn’t play enough to be a scapegoat. He’s an easy target though because he isn’t a good player at this level.
Bacot seemed to hop up and down like "Give me the damn ball"! That one play made me wonder if there is any kind of disconnect with Ingram and Bacot. It was THAT open and obvious. Like you said, it happened far more than once but that one stuck out.
Man you nailed it!!! I swear this is it!!! I don't care what anyone says.. bacot is moving fine.. he just don't have that passion anymore. He seems over it. Yeah, his defense is better and he is setting screens better overall, but it's definitely not the same bacot from the 21-22 season. The energy/effort is not there. People can keep making excuses and say bacot is doing other things now, but cmon that doesn't mean you just forget everything else you've always did!
And yes there were a few plays bacot was open and Ingram didn't get him the ball.. but that's not every game.. plus that's no excuse for his poor rebounding efforts and zero blocks against GT! 9 rebounds is not a lot against an undersized GT team without their leading rebounder. It's also not a lot of rebounds for the all time rebounding leader at UNC, and the all time double double leader at UNC.. it's also not the same rebounding effort he gave in the 21-22 season when he had fire under him
Hubs should play who he wants to play! None of us could coach an ACC team to a 9-1, #1 ACC record! Pax plays hard and is gives peeps a good spell to rest. Withers works his tail off and is on an upward curve. I agree that High isn't ready, but all of you experts criticized Hubs for not playing bench players last year saying they would never develop without time! It is time to look hypocrisy in the face and self-reflect! I also think we should have seen more JWash in the 2nd half, but I don't see taking either Bacot or Ingram out to do it! I might be the most optimistic fan in the Family, but even I did not think we would go undefeated despite the idiots that think the ACC isn't a great conference! We do NOT have an 8 man rotation and only a fool would limit our options! We should continue to play 10 and rotate using High, Pax, and Okonkwo situationally! So the thought is scrap something that worked 10 times in a row because it didn't work on the 11th try...seems right??? EC put himself into position to get fouls called on 2 bad occasions. He needs to clean up the reach and the useless attempt to get a stop in the lane since he can't control the worsening refereeing! EC does need to step up in rhythm and take a few shots and he needs to remember to drop the pocket pass at times too! THIS team and our staff will use this to teach and motivate!
This post should end the entire thread! 👆
We, or I should say the team, have pretty much forgot that Mando exist.
The guy had 8 point in the first half and a grand total on 1 point(on a FT) in the 2nd half. Now granted he missed 2 baskets that he should have finished, and he got raped on another FG attempt, but there's no excuse he's getting limited touches(4-8)
RJ sees this as his team and his opportunity to score and get the ESPN highlights.
He was 11-24. Off nights happen for sure, but CL was crucified for the exact same thing last season.
Not sure 11-24 is an off night..That’s 46% that’s above his average last season and this season. Love shot 38% last year. I agree that both Bacot and Jwash need more touches
This is the most obvious angle of the replay I have seen. Foul.
Instead of looking at a meaningless 46% trying understanding the big picture if that's possible for you.
RJ-24 shots
Ryan-14 shots
Ingram-14 shots
BACOT-8 SHOTS
Well if it’s possible for you, you could realize RJ wasn’t a good example and Ryan and Ingram, like you mentioned in your rebuttal, are good examples. Why so snarky all the time btw?
Thoughts and prayers to Bacot. That sounds painful.
Whispers.... This is RJ's team. In large part, UNC will go how far RJ carries them.
People complaining bacot needs more touches.. he should go get the dang rebound and be a MAN and put it back up!! 9 rebounds against GT with their leading rebounder out is pathetic! Maybe not pathetic for your average center, but are we calling Armando average?? He should average 13rpg. He did 2 years ago.. why not now?? Don't give me the Ingram excuse. The bacot in 21-22 would eat the new bacot for breakfast.
Dunno about any issues, but I was very disappointed in Ingram, who had a rep as a good passing Forward. Mando gets pounded on most games, and when a Big works that hard, get him the damned rock.
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Inaccurate take, and if that's the case, how far will be first weekend of the NCAAT.
Not a knock at all on RJ, but when we have to rely on him creating shots off the bounce that is a very limited future.
The potential of this team can only come by utizing all our weapons. That means playing INSIDE-OUT, which means Bacot touches, ball-movement directed by Cadeau, getting the rock to RJ in motion, Ingram showing versatility from the perimeter to the block, and getting the ball to Ryan in good shooting spots so he doesn't have to create or force.
I will not bash Bacot but I can't deny that this is not the Bacot we have seen for over 4 seasons now, something is off that his simply taking on a new role does not explain. I am not going to look at a specific trip down court as in Bacot getting position and not getting the ball, to many things go on in players minds in specific situations. I absolutely see no conflict at all between Bacot and Ingram at all. Ingram spends a ton of time outside the paint so he isn't clogging Bacot up. Bacot is getting doubled, Bacot has been constantly doubled for the last 2 years, that isn't new.
In a recent interview, may have been a post game with AJ, Bacot said something that I think everyone should listen to. He was talking about his off season work, shared that it was hard because he had a couple injuries from last season that just were not healing right. Now he did not say he was still dealing with injury from last season but he didn't say he wasn't either. In a separate pod AJ briefly mentioned that he had seen Bacot wearing a hard brace on his ankle a couple days before that pod cast, may have been a 3 things pod. I don't dismiss these things, they seem to add up and we are at a point in the season that different things do pop up on the injury front, most every player this time of the season has some kind of injury that is nagging them especially those that play a lot of minutes.
In a recent interview, may have been a post game with AJ, Bacot said something that I think everyone should listen to. He was talking about his off season work, shared that it was hard because he had a couple injuries from last season that just were not healing right. Now he did not say he was still dealing with injury from last season but he didn't say he wasn't either. In a separate pod AJ briefly mentioned that he had seen Bacot wearing a hard brace on his ankle a couple days before that pod cast, may have been a 3 things pod. I don't dismiss these things, they seem to add up and we are at a point in the season that different things do pop up on the injury front, most every player this time of the season has some kind of injury that is nagging them especially those that play a lot of minutes.
The team is versatile! The problem analysts and most of us have is the versatility means we don't have to have what is often called an "identity"! We can play through the bigs OR generate O off the bounce OR half court OR fast break OR bombs from the perimeter! We have been successful because we employed the proper style at the proper moments! Last time the style was forced upon us and we reacted instead of choosing! Despite GT controlling pace AND style, we still managed to give ourselves a chance to win. One foul less (like the silly reach at the top) and EC is there to run the show during endgame! 1 ref with cajones and we have it in our best FT shooter's hands! Ryan slowing his release 1 tick and he hits a higher %. Bacot/Seth flushing one like JWash. Every player on our team needs to look at self to see where they could have found one more winning play and DO it next time!
Your eyes have been closed Gary. He gets to the rim frequently. EC gives us our best potential sure but without RJ it doesn’t matter what EC does.
