Good observation and glad you were able to attend the game, and yes, there is so much more to see live that you just can't on TV. They look better because they shelved the 5-out offense and went back to our standard with freelance and secondary breaks along with implementing different defenses to cause confusion to the opposition. Now, the next thing is to tighten up our defense and get constant movement on offense. If this materializes, we are going to be a real tough out.
Quick stuff (Michigan game)...
- Thread starter gary-7
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75 what was supposed to be the advantage this year, changing from what we did last year?
I'm not sure anything changed other than we don't have Brady anymore. That was a huge loss, more than we thought it would be.
My understanding as it was relayed to me by an individual who should know, is, that the team was offered the opportunity to run a Pro-Style offense or 5- out if you like, and all bought in on it and it simply did not work out because of the type of personnel needed to run it effectively. The advantage, if there was one, was to keep a defense on its heels and allow driving guards to take the open lanes that were supposed to be there, and score at will or pass off for perimeter shots..
The problems arose when the oppositions defenses got up into RJ & Caleb's jerseys and closed the lanes, which proved to be effective as we all have seen. The offense ground to a halt at the 3-point line and when faced with this, our guards turned to hero ball, and it was mostly downhill from that point on until the change was made back to our standard offense.
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No doubt. Great info and all that could definitely be seen. I sure am glad the staff adjusted, as it’s pretty dang obvious we’re a diff team. Stats don’t lie for sure and I for one definitely like the numbers we are used to seeing. Thanks man
Classic trap game. Pitt isn't as bad as they probably should be considering how they had to scramble to fill their roster (3 of their starters played for other schools last year). Which is to say we had better not go in there too self-satisfied after these excellent wins. After all, they weren't easy wins.
We should have a little revenge mojo on our side - they beat us on our court last year when they were even worse - but if we are cocky after these wins we could struggle.
Or it may come down to who put on the most weight or partied the hardest over the holiday.
I think Seth has been doing fine for us.
The thing I'm not seeing is rest for RJ and Caleb. For example they played 38 and 35 minutes, respectively, against Michigan. While Seth added 18. That's 91 out of 80 back court minutes.
Obviously, instead of RJ and Caleb getting to stay fresh, Seth's minutes are showing up as more 3-guard offense.
Don't get me wrong, I think having that option in our arsenal is great. As we get better at it, I fully expect that strategic flexibility will win us a few games. BUT . . . that isn't keeping RJ and Caleb fresh at the end of the game.
Sure they're tough nuts, and they did that all last year. But it also hurt us at the end of some games last year.
Bottom line is that I hope Seth can get good minutes AND RJ and Caleb can get some rest. And not just in the first half either. That extra 3 minute breather you got in the first quarter doesn't count for much with 2 to go in a close game.
What's the story with Styles?
He looked good against The Citadel, but only played 2 minutes in the OT game against OSU, and not at all against Michigan.
Obviously The Citadel was a lesser challenge. But surely Styles is good enough to play in the hard games, isn't he?
He looked good against The Citadel, but only played 2 minutes in the OT game against OSU, and not at all against Michigan.
Obviously The Citadel was a lesser challenge. But surely Styles is good enough to play in the hard games, isn't he?
He definitely got a personal with the technical. Those 2 fouls are why he sat the rest of the 1st half.
Only thing I can think of is that first foul of the second half that the announcers claimed was on him, must not have been.
Is it common to seek the teams preferred style of play? Shouldn't the staff enforce what they know works? Is this a product of today's culture?
Good win against a solid Michigan team. The turnovers and especially the FT shooting was concerning though. I hope they can clean up both areas. Made free throws are so crucial in close games. At least they made them when they counted in this game.
The changes in style of play are not uncommon and coaching staffs make changes all the time. Coach Smith tried it, Roy ran a hybrid of Dean's offense that was very successful up until his last couple of years. And Hubert wanted to try the NBA 5-out offense and it didn't pan out, so he reverted back to what we have seen the last 5 games.
Yep. It was a combination of things over Roy's last few seasons.
First, Joel's heir-apparent (Jalek, who had all the requisite skills) turned out to be a knucklehead, and that started a cycle of make-do at the position, so to speak. 7th was NEVER gonna be a PG1, and Coby was a Combo who got by for a season due to his scoring and being surrounded by a VERY experienced supporting cast.
Then, Cole was only gonna be here for a season and had a very limited supporting cast, so yeah, then Roy tried to make PGs outta Combos with Caleb and RJ, and here we are.
As you said above, the logical next-in-line for PGU is now being wasted by that lame-brain Oats, despite a valiant effort by the current staff to rescue a recruitment that had gone south a year earlier. So... we missed there, but this Combo purgatory cycle HAS to be broken sooner rather than later, which speaks to why you and I have been crossing our fingers so hard over Mr. Cadeau...
Your post made it sound sorta like the team choose what they wanted to play. If so, that seemed weird.
Not at all, but they did buy into that offense, and we all see that the results were not successful. Keep in mind that today's players want to play like the pros do and the team's experiment was a failure plain and simple. So, you go back to what you know will be successful. And yes, it's a product of today's culture.
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You earn your court time in practices as Hubert has mentioned on several occasions. Just because you have 1 good week of practice doesn't mean that you will retain that good play and earn more time. It's an issue of consistency, and it's not there yet for Dontrez.
Both of the fouls early second half against Bacot, were committed by different Michigan players reaching in on help defense for Dickinson. He didn't get either of those fouls. I think the fouls were correct. Of course they could have easily called more fouls against him, as he is a bull in a china shop.
The Citadel is ranked 288 in the NET. They are terrible.
Styles can't dribble. That's a big problem. He's a turnover waiting to happen against decent teams. He doesn't use his athleticism to attack the rim. He settles for jumpshots which he rarely makes. He doesn't make a strong enough impact defensively or on the boards to outweigh his negatives. He is an athlete trying to develop into a basketball player, but he's got a ways to go. He is also an undersized PF who wants to be a SF, so that is an additional hurdle.
Honestly, I don't even know what he spent his offseason working on. When I saw him lose the ball dribbling through cones at Live Action with Hubert, I was shocked. I figured he of all people on this roster would have focused on ball handling this offseason. In the Citadel game, he had that play where he grabbed a bad pass and started the fast break. If you look closely you'll see his 2nd dribble got so high that, had Caleb not been available for a pass, Styles would have turned it over. He needs to be putting in an hour every day purely on ball handling drills.
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If people stick around and if I'm counting right, we could still haveYep. It was a combination of things over Roy's last few seasons.
First, Joel's heir-apparent (Jalek, who had all the requisite skills) turned out to be a knucklehead, and that started a cycle of make-do at the position, so to speak. 7th was NEVER gonna be a PG1, and Coby was a Combo who got by for a season due to his scoring and being surrounded by a VERY experienced supporting cast.
Then, Cole was only gonna be here for a season and had a very limited supporting cast, so yeah, then Roy tried to make PGs outta Combos with Caleb and RJ, and here we are.
As you said above, the logical next-in-line for PGU is now being wasted by that lame-brain Oats, despite a valiant effort by the current staff to rescue a recruitment that had gone south a year earlier. So... we missed there, but this Combo purgatory cycle HAS to be broken sooner rather than later, which speaks to why you and I have been crossing our fingers so hard over Mr. Cadeau...
RJ (COVID year)
Dunn (senior)
Seth (junior)
Wilcher (sophomore)
With Cadeau at point, who plays where?
Does Cadeau come here looking at that group? Even if he thinks he's good enough to beat them out, why not go somewhere without that competition? Even if Cadeau is the only "true" PG in the group, is Hubert really going to sit those guys?
Of course some or all of those guys may not still be here, so it may be moot. But what if they are (or look likely to be when Cadeau makes his deision)?
I would have loved to see Cole on a talented team! He forced so much that year, but I feel he had to! That year was just a cluster f***! He understands the game and is an insane competitor..would have been fun to watch him the next year, paired with Coby WhiteYep. It was a combination of things over Roy's last few seasons.
First, Joel's heir-apparent (Jalek, who had all the requisite skills) turned out to be a knucklehead, and that started a cycle of make-do at the position, so to speak. 7th was NEVER gonna be a PG1, and Coby was a Combo who got by for a season due to his scoring and being surrounded by a VERY experienced supporting cast.
Then, Cole was only gonna be here for a season and had a very limited supporting cast, so yeah, then Roy tried to make PGs outta Combos with Caleb and RJ, and here we are.
As you said above, the logical next-in-line for PGU is now being wasted by that lame-brain Oats, despite a valiant effort by the current staff to rescue a recruitment that had gone south a year earlier. So... we missed there, but this Combo purgatory cycle HAS to be broken sooner rather than later, which speaks to why you and I have been crossing our fingers so hard over Mr. Cadeau...
UNC led the nation in player games missed due to injury that season. But if you watched that team healthy the first game of the year, they definitely looked like a top 15 team.
Does RJ qualify for an extra year? He wasn't on the roster in 2019 - 2020 season. But maybe players that started in fall 2020 get the covid year too?
The covid year is for the 2020-2021 season.
NCAA Eligibility Requirements for Student-Athletes
The NCAA determines a student-athlete’s eligibility based on their academic preparedness and amateurism status. Learn more about NCAA eligibility.
www.ncsasports.org
That was the season where lots of regular season games were cancelled.
Ah, thanks.The covid year is for the 2020-2021 season.
NCAA Eligibility Requirements for Student-Athletes
The NCAA determines a student-athlete’s eligibility based on their academic preparedness and amateurism status. Learn more about NCAA eligibility.
That was the season where lots of regular season games were cancelled.
Yeah, got myself confused. March 2020 was cancelation of tournament.
Looks like if you were a senior in Spring of 2020 you would also have gotten an extra year. So it's people who played any of the 2020-21 season and also those who played in Spring of the 2019-20 season.
Yes, rest for RJ and Caleb is needed, same true for all the starters.
I feel like we are wasting what should be a solid advantage for us by not using our depth as well as we could. You pull a guy off the bench for 3 reasons, to rest a starter, to get that bench guy PT that he needs and deserves, and to at times be a teaching moment. The fresh legs you waste today are not as ready help you in a time of need. Since that VT game we played a LOT of guys off the bench. Trimble and Nickel got a lot of court time, Dunn would have had he been available. Where we struggled a bit was brining in someone to spell Bacot, especially when Nance already had a foul or 2.
While against some teams Puff matches up well at the 4, vs others (the bigger 4s) it is a struggle for him, he tries with all he has but those bulky banger type 4s over power him. I have been waiting for Washington to really establish as a solid member of this front court not only for the talent he has but what he represents, another long kid that can intimidate some shots and snag some boards, as well as score. He is long but does need to work on his physical strength, he needs PT now because we are going to need him later season and he needs his game legs and confidence.
For this team, I don't love the 3 guard look, it plays to Trimble's weakness and takes away from his strengths offensively. Actually, our most effective line up may well be Seth (at the point), Caleb/RJ, Nickel, Leaky, and Bacot. That is a defense heavy rotation, what it lacks in true scoring it makes up for with hawkish defense and solid execution. Then you come back with RJ, Caleb (where we miss Dunn), Puff, Nance, and Washington (so Bacot gets a rest), then go back to your starters. Mix in Styles and McKoy for a few minutes situationally as things like fouls dictate. This just is not a team built for the 3 guard look, we have enough trouble between Caleb and RJ sharing the ball, the 3rd guard is wasted. The 3 guard look may work some what with Dunn because his shooting vastly improved over the off season but Trimble will need the next off season to work out some mechanical kinks in his shot. But for now he isn't a jump shooting threat and at the wing that is a glaring problem. As a PG he would have the ball in his hands so he has to be guarded hard but as a wing he can be a dare to shoot guy similar to leaky. Both Leaky and Seth off set this by out standing play in other areas.
We have played really well using a deep bench this season, first couple games of this win streak featured that bench, last couple we have slipped back to less bench and more starters. The trend with that is TOs up, extra pass for the great shot less often, bad shots up, easier scoring ops given up. I think especially when we play bully ball teams you need to keep your legs fresh so you can attack the bully when his legs are worn down.
Sad to hear. It sounds like Styles is a transfer candidate unless he really improves.
Will we need to snag a 3/4 from the portal?
I heard that Will Shaver fractured or broke his foot. Idk if that is 100% accurate or not. Anyone know what happened with him? Does anyone know when Dunn is coming back? I also agree that the bench needs to be utilized more and it looked like we were heading in that direction except for the second half of Ohio St and the Michigan game. I hope that Nickel, Seth, Puff, Washington and Dunn (when he comes back) can play productive and quality minutes in backing up our starters. Style’s is a tremendous athletic player but his fundamental’s are still very shaky. He is not a shooter and yet he is not a scorer because his handle is so loose. McKoy scares me to death when he comes in because he seems to always have a delayed reaction. He jacks up shots as soon as he gets in games too. He is a turnover waiting to happen. The turnovers by our starters needs to improve as well. When Seth plays PG he needs to stop dribbling into traffic and getting himself into trouble. He also seems to be very unsure of what to do and where to go with the ball. Jalen Washington has to get acclimated to playing again while getting use to a huge uptick in talent level. He definitely needs strength. Glad to see our offensive sets have changed. I hope that we can keep progressing defensively and start being more and more aggressive as the season continues on. Help creating turnovers should help our overall offensive efficiency. I was disappointed that we didn’t see Michael at the inaugural Jumpman Invitational. Glad to see the Team go into the Christmas break on a 4 game winning streak and looking like they are heading in the right direction. I’m really hoping that we get Cadeau, Jarin Stevenson, James Brown to go along with Powell for our 24 class. Ian Jackson would be a nice get too but I really think that he is kensucky bound. I really like Powell’s overall game and I think that he can end up being a tremendous player in the near future. Hope everyone is safe and doing well during this Christmas Season! GDTBATH
Dunn, last I heard, was on schedule for end of the month.
There were two separate plays in second half where a foul was called on Michigan and while H Dick was closest to the Heel, the foul was on another Michigan guy who came in and reached / hacked an arm, but it looked like it might be called on H Dick since he was closest to the Heel. Easy to get confused and think it was called on H Dick.
Pete Nance just doesn’t try on defense 100% of the time. Lots of times he just lets the guy go by him without any effort. I have seen him do great and block shots when he wants to, but that’s not consistent. He needs to try a bit harder on the defense. His offense is no Brady Manek. I figured when losing Manek and gaining Pete, we were going to at least get a great defender and rebounder even if he didn’t shoot as well as Manek. But that doesn’t seem to be the case either as I think Brady was a better defender and rebounder as well. Really if we had Manek this year, I’d say we would still be undefeated at this point.
The offense has been good except for a game here and there. I expect that to continue and even get a bit better as we hit more threes. Perhaps those who know more basketball than me are right about us ending the "unfortunate offensive experiment", but I see pretty similar sets. We still run tons of horns and pick-and roll; Pete still plays on the outside when Bacot is in, and Bacot still gets the ball at the top of the key a lot.
Bacot has cut down dribbling in from there, which is a big improvement! And we've fed Bacot more the past couple games. I suspect because he's now mostly healed from his injuries. But I don't see any "experiment" ending; indeed, we've been subbing Nance out more and playing Leaky/Puff/Nickel at the 4, in which case they play almost exclusively on the perimeter.
If this team is going to be a top 10 type team, they need to play better defense. That's the reason we're unranked. We're #56 on D according to Kenpom, #99 (!) according to Bartorvik. Or if you prefer conventional stats, we've given up 77 points per game to power conference teams in regulation (excluding OTs). Stinky by Carolina standards.
I think Nance is surprisingly a bit worse than Brady (who wasn't great himself) defensively; and the rest of the guys (besides Leaky) have never shown particularly strong defensive aptitude. I think that's partly why Trimble and Puff are getting much more run lately, as both hustle and can stay with their man.
So here's a much more important question for the future of this year's team than our offensive scheme or Trimble's point guard ability: how can we play better defense?
Bacot has cut down dribbling in from there, which is a big improvement! And we've fed Bacot more the past couple games. I suspect because he's now mostly healed from his injuries. But I don't see any "experiment" ending; indeed, we've been subbing Nance out more and playing Leaky/Puff/Nickel at the 4, in which case they play almost exclusively on the perimeter.
If this team is going to be a top 10 type team, they need to play better defense. That's the reason we're unranked. We're #56 on D according to Kenpom, #99 (!) according to Bartorvik. Or if you prefer conventional stats, we've given up 77 points per game to power conference teams in regulation (excluding OTs). Stinky by Carolina standards.
I think Nance is surprisingly a bit worse than Brady (who wasn't great himself) defensively; and the rest of the guys (besides Leaky) have never shown particularly strong defensive aptitude. I think that's partly why Trimble and Puff are getting much more run lately, as both hustle and can stay with their man.
So here's a much more important question for the future of this year's team than our offensive scheme or Trimble's point guard ability: how can we play better defense?
Brady was not a better defender. Pete may get burned a few times but Brady was abused and taken advantage of often. Pete seems to work when needed. I’m amazed he can go a full game without a shot, then score or look to score a few plays in a row. I think he’s too unselfish at times. May be his experience idk.
I think Hubert has answered that question in the past few games. He’s sat Love a few times for lazy defense. Give others some burn and make that butt sore on the bench does wonders. Not getting to play when you know you can do better, will and ultimately does the job.
Pete gets burnt way too much to help us if he’s not going to be a better scorer. In order for him to help us without being a consistent scorer, he needs to be a lock down defender. Brady Manek at least tried at all aspects of the game and helped us big time on the offensive end. Nance has had a few decent good games and hit a big shot against Ohio State but you can’t tell me he’s a good Brady Manek replacement. We are missing that “other guy” who can score and open up the offense even more. Defense is great but not as important if you can outscore your opponent almost every time.
