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Quick stuff (ND game)...

gary-7

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Jan 27, 2003
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...and I suppose we should be thankful for small steps.

Arright... before I get into this, if you're pulling for us to lose, then please just do everyone else a favor and stay TF outta this thread. I feel safe in saying I've been fussing at the staff and team as much as anyone during games, but I want to stay analytical for those here who appreciate it.

With that outta the way, our recent foibles have bothered me to the point of forcing myself to go back and rewatch large parts of the previous games --- I should get double-time combat pay for that, but 2 x 0 is still nuthin, so... --- and once I finish some initial comments, I'll try to share what I learned later in this post.

So look, we all know this game shouldn't have had to come down to Eliot's heroics but let's revisit how we got there:

- In complete fairness, it needs to be acknowledged that much of the 1st half featured some steps in the right direction schematically. We were eons better on D than last time out --- better effort, better communication, fewer lapses.

- Most importantly on offense, we were much more VERTICAL in half-court --- less lateral and circular actions and more focus on getting the rock toward the rack --- and we were more consistently trying to push transition even in absence of number advantages. Make no mistake, we still need to run the Secondary correctly more often, but it was at least a positive step nonetheless.

- Now, back to the opening reference: Before the season I stated that this team would be more successful if RJ scored less than last season. Now, by that I did NOT mean by missing so damn many shots --- I meant by making a needed change to our approach. Ever since our Natty game run, Hubert has defaulted to scheming for RJ. Hell, we sure did it last season. And again in fairness, if RJ was shooting even remotely like he has in previous seasons we win most of our losses so far. BUT, that is fool's gold, as we're now witnessing, a true double-edged sword. It has absolutely killed us this season. That 4/14 at Louisville was case-in-point. OK, good news is we stepped away from that to a degree today. As we saw, Jackson was the guy with the shot attempts today, and with the way things are going that makes more sense.

So... WTF went south in the 2nd half? In fairness again, O'Connell and his jabronie crew did an absolute number on us, inventing calls for ND while we weren't even in the damned bonus at the end of the game (!) --- in fact, I thought for sure they would foul us down to the buzzer at the end (Thanks, BTW). But once again, we mostly put ourselves in the precarious position of losing what should've been a working and expanding lead:

- We turned tight-ass. We stopped pushing pace --- only 2 Secondary points after 11 in the 1st --- and slowed down. Granted, part of that resulted from not securing rebounds or loose balls, but mostly from reverting to old habits in half-court. Let's focus on that for a second, as there were 3 major things that went wrong:
1. We reverted to starting possesions with that useless high lateral pass and/or (way-too-high) ball-screens. Teams have scouted that and you saw ND consistently run what I call a "shadow double" where they aren't risking full-on trapping, but still have two sets of hands obstructing any pass-out from upper no-man's land. Long story short, it stalled our previous vertical actions.
2. We reverted to isolations --- this time to Ian instead of RJ, but that's still a bad idea. Fact is, at this point in his development, Ian needs to get the rock on the move or on the catch --- his handle is just too loose right now to be reliable in isos.
3. What DID work was our fade-screen action --- we got several wide-open looks for 3s and/or runners (for both Ian and RJ) but we just missed the shots down the stretch.

- What drove me crazy on the defensive end was turning passive. ND mirrored Louisville by playing bumper-pool and forcing and/or backing the ball into the paint, and for too many possessions that 1st-half communication disappeared, or they got bailed out by sketchy whistles when we did get a stop. Here's the thing though --- why be a damn sitting duck? We could've ruined their day with some well-timed scrambles, but nada.... I honestly just don't get it. That should've been mixed in long before we got burdened with foul trouble... :rolleyes: and what the heck were we thinking in the last 4.8? We started out correctly by forcing the short inbound, but with that much time you do NOT want to have our guys backing out until you at least force a redirect by jumping the dribbler at a safe distance.

- Finally, one last time in fairness, Notre Dame ALWAYS plays us tough up there --- even when we're playing well --- and they obviously made this one a special occasion, what with their green unis and shit. But the most frustrating thing is that the cure for what ails us is not rocket science --- it's applied geometry. If nothing else, we did a bit better at that for 20 minutes today, so there's that...

Anyway, small steps are better than none, I suppose, but we'd best take more (and for a longer time) Tuesday. SMU is pretty doggone good. I'll certainly take the W today, especially since we've left little room for Ls... :cool::oops:
 
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Just got back from the game. That was highway robbery to steal that one in the last minute, should have never got to that point though. Plenty of chances to grab the game by a strangle hold in 1st half, and early 2nd half.

How ND doesn't foul with one to give is mind boggling, then out of control close out on the three they allowed is beyond ignorance.

Markus Burton absolutely punked Elliot and RJ to an extent. Stopped even making move, just straight to the basket at will whenever EC was in front of him. Last play, HORRIBLE defensive set up. Allowed Burton the rock easy, straight, with EC on him, straight line to the cup with Elliot back peddling. He missed, probably should of been a foul too.

They chased RJ and dared others to shoot. Drake had wide open looks, finally hit his 6th attempt.

Jalen had his whole Gary West Side crew there, he plays SO passive off the ball, and very weak with it. There were ample opportunities there for him, he defers. Lubin was just a muck it up guy.

Ian was by far the baller on the court. Ugly game and a hugely needed win, but it was a meltdown by ND in the last 30 seconds.
 
Fair right up Gary, thanks.

Out of the gate the defense actually looked better with some foot movement and active hands.

The starting line up was a move in the right direction towards giving your athletes a chance to be athletic.

Also noticed that, for a while at least, EC actually had a chance to bring the ball up and be THE pg which I think led to the vertical play mentioned and is a move in the right direction for sure.

Noticed an actual effort to involve what few "bigs" we have in some inside play and that is a big move in the right direction and it was good to see Brown get some play .. looks like he might could develop into an actual 5 if he don't bail.

Downside was totally losing focus and letting a decent lead go away against a team it shouldn't have.

Be nice if I could have seen some type of reasoning or purpose behind some of the substitution patterns .. or lack of.

End of the day .. a W on an away court is a positive. There were some moves in the right direction but there are still a lot of areas that need improvement.
 
I think the Heels played pretty well for about 30min of the game. That last ten was zero flow. Either ND scored or “got a call” the rest of the time. Not much of chance run any primary or much secondary at all. How many times is J Wash going to receive the ball At then top of key and turn down the three or the one or two dribble pull-up? Good thing Ian is playing really confidently. That Kid can score! I hated the heroics were needed by EC at the end. I hope his confidence is coming back after clutch 4 pt play. He banged another 3 in earlier in the game. RJ still has that right thumb taped up. Hey never shoots well with that. Otherwise good stuff G7! I enjoy the content!
 
Wondered the same thing. Maybe he's gun shy and is skerd of being benched to do what should be reflexive. At least he's getting some touches near/in the lane and that in itself is a positive.
This is definitely a source of frustration. It feels like, by not encouraging him or by turning him into a hand-off guy, we've emasculated that unique part of his game.
 
...and I suppose we should be thankful for small steps.

Arright... before I get into this, if you're pulling for us to lose, then please just do everyone else a favor and stay TF outta this thread. I feel safe in saying I've been fussing at the staff and team as much as anyone during games, but I want to stay analytical for those here who appreciate it.

With that outta the way, our recent foibles have bothered me to the point of forcing myself to go back and rewatch large parts of the previous games --- I should get double-time combat pay for that, but 2 x 0 is still nuthin, so... --- and once I finish some initial comments, I'll try to share what I learned later in this post.

So look, we all know this game shouldn't have had to come down to Eliot's heroics but let's revisit how we got there:

- In complete fairness, it needs to be acknowledged that much of the 1st half featured some steps in the right direction schematically. We were eons better on D than last time out --- better effort, better communication, fewer lapses.

- Most importantly on offense, we were much more VERTICAL in half-court --- less lateral and circular actions and more focus on getting the rock toward the rack --- and we were more consistently trying to push transition even in absence of number advantages. Make no mistake, we still need to run the Secondary correctly more often, but it was at least a positive step nonetheless.

- Now, back to the opening reference: Before the season I stated that this team would be more successful if RJ scored less than last season. Now, by that I did NOT mean by missing so damn many shots --- I meant by making a needed change to our approach. Ever since our Natty game run, Hubert has defaulted to scheming for RJ. Hell, we sure did it last season. And again in fairness, if RJ was shooting even remotely like he has in previous seasons we win most of our losses so far. BUT, that is fool's gold, as we're now witnessing, a true double-edged sword. It has absolutely killed us this season. That 4/14 at Louisville was case-in-point. OK, good news is we stepped away from that to a degree today. As we saw, Jackson was the guy with the shot attempts today, and with the way things are going that makes more sense.

So... WTF went south in the 2nd half? In fairness again, O'Connell and his jabronie crew did an absolute number on us, inventing calls for ND while we weren't even in the damned bonus at the end of the game (!) --- in fact, I thought for sure they would foul us down to the buzzer at the end (Thanks, BTW). But once again, we mostly put ourselves in the precarious position of losing what should've been a working and expanding lead:

- We turned tight-ass. We stopped pushing pace --- only 2 Secondary points after 11 in the 1st --- and slowed down. Granted, part of that resulted from not securing rebounds or loose balls, but mostly from reverting to old habits in half-court. Let's focus on that for a second, as there were 3 major things that went wrong:
1. We reverted to starting possesions with that useless high lateral pass and/or (way-too-high) ball-screens. Teams have scouted that and you saw ND consistently run what I call a "shadow double" where they aren't risking full-on trapping, but still have two sets of hands obstructing any pass-out from upper no-man's land. Long story short, it stalled our previous vertical actions.
2. We reverted to isolations --- this time to Ian instead of RJ, but that's still a bad idea. Fact is, at this point in his development, Ian needs to get the rock on the move or on the catch --- his handle is just too loose right now to be reliable in isos.
3. What DID work was our fade-screen action --- we got several wide-open looks for 3s and/or runners (for both Ian and RJ) but we just missed the shots down the stretch.

- What drove me crazy on the defensive end was turning passive. ND mirrored Louisville by playing bumper-pool and forcing and/or backing the ball into the paint, and for too many possessions that 1st-half communication disappeared, or they got bailed out by sketchy whistles when we did get a stop. Here's the thing though --- why be a damn sitting duck? We could've ruined their day with some well-timed scrambles, but nada.... I honestly just don't get it. That should've been mixed in long before we got burdened with foul trouble... :rolleyes: and what the heck were we thinking in the last 4.8? We started out correctly by forcing the short inbound, but with that much time you do NOT want to have our guys backing out until you at least force a redirect by jumping the dribbler at a safe distance.

- Finally, one last time in fairness, Notre Dame ALWAYS plays us tough up there --- even when we're playing well --- and they obviously made this one a special occasion, what with their green unis and shit. But the most frustrating thing is that the cure for what ails us is not rocket science --- it's applied geometry. If nothing else, we did a bit better at that for 20 minutes today, so there's that...

Anyway, small steps are better than none, I suppose, but we'd best take more (and for a longer time) Tuesday. SMU is pretty doggone good. I'll certainly take the W today, especially since we've left little room for Ls... :cool::oops:
Thanks gary-7.
 
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Just got back from the game. That was highway robbery to steal that one in the last minute, should have never got to that point though. Plenty of chances to grab the game by a strangle hold in 1st half, and early 2nd half.

How ND doesn't foul with one to give is mind boggling, then out of control close out on the three they allowed is beyond ignorance.

Markus Burton absolutely punked Elliot and RJ to an extent. Stopped even making move, just straight to the basket at will whenever EC was in front of him. Last play, HORRIBLE defensive set up. Allowed Burton the rock easy, straight, with EC on him, straight line to the cup with Elliot back peddling. He missed, probably should of been a foul too.

They chased RJ and dared others to shoot. Drake had wide open looks, finally hit his 6th attempt.

Jalen had his whole Gary West Side crew there, he plays SO passive off the ball, and very weak with it. There were ample opportunities there for him, he defers. Lubin was just a muck it up guy.

Ian was by far the baller on the court. Ugly game and a hugely needed win, but it was a meltdown by ND in the last 30 seconds.
I was there too. Burton was having his way getting to the rim and drawing fouls. I wish EC could do this for us.

Very fortunate to get the win. Maybe Tremble can push this team off the bubble and into the tourney but I don't feel confident.
 
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Happy for Cadeau. That was a big moment for him. Temporarily saved the team’s season. But for him individually it was a huge moment. Good for him. Happy for him.
Good awareness and acceptance on his part to not shy away from the moment. Less than 10 seconds left, had a speed mismatch in his favor. Had to shoot. Too late to set something else up.
 
Liked how we got bigs involved more but then the 2nd half we reverted to the stagnant offense. When ND went zone we did not have anyone on the free throw line to pass too and when JWash did get it there he did not even turn to look at the basket. Have to get 2 halves put together.
 
Thanks G-7. Very accurate observations and opinions about our strengths and weaknesses, as always.
For sure, when we defend aggressively and go after the rock on the glass, we are a better team
and half one demonstrated better hustle and lateral movement to stifle inside drives.
However, in half two, Burton created foul trouble for our guards and forced lineup combos
that weren’t effective defensively. Hope Seth gets well soon, he could have helped slow
down Burton.
Jalen played better on both ends, but l agree that he needs to be playing closer to the basket
on both ends of the floor. Just his presence helps; we play better when he plays better.
Captain Jack was superb going to the hole, but his drives can’t always start so far from the
hole, opponents will start shutting that down.
RJ plays so hard, it’s difficult to watch his outside shot struggles this season. We need to
see a breakout game with 3,4 threes to loosen him up; how about Tuesday? Nevertheless, his assists yesterday
we’re crucial; staying active and involving his teammates was critical to the W.
Finally, l cannot recall Carolina ever winning a game on a four point play. And wow, we needed that victory.
Thank you Elliot!!
GDTBATH 🏀⛹🏾‍♂️
 
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...and I suppose we should be thankful for small steps.

Arright... before I get into this, if you're pulling for us to lose, then please just do everyone else a favor and stay TF outta this thread. I feel safe in saying I've been fussing at the staff and team as much as anyone during games, but I want to stay analytical for those here who appreciate it.

With that outta the way, our recent foibles have bothered me to the point of forcing myself to go back and rewatch large parts of the previous games --- I should get double-time combat pay for that, but 2 x 0 is still nuthin, so... --- and once I finish some initial comments, I'll try to share what I learned later in this post.

So look, we all know this game shouldn't have had to come down to Eliot's heroics but let's revisit how we got there:

- In complete fairness, it needs to be acknowledged that much of the 1st half featured some steps in the right direction schematically. We were eons better on D than last time out --- better effort, better communication, fewer lapses.

- Most importantly on offense, we were much more VERTICAL in half-court --- less lateral and circular actions and more focus on getting the rock toward the rack --- and we were more consistently trying to push transition even in absence of number advantages. Make no mistake, we still need to run the Secondary correctly more often, but it was at least a positive step nonetheless.

- Now, back to the opening reference: Before the season I stated that this team would be more successful if RJ scored less than last season. Now, by that I did NOT mean by missing so damn many shots --- I meant by making a needed change to our approach. Ever since our Natty game run, Hubert has defaulted to scheming for RJ. Hell, we sure did it last season. And again in fairness, if RJ was shooting even remotely like he has in previous seasons we win most of our losses so far. BUT, that is fool's gold, as we're now witnessing, a true double-edged sword. It has absolutely killed us this season. That 4/14 at Louisville was case-in-point. OK, good news is we stepped away from that to a degree today. As we saw, Jackson was the guy with the shot attempts today, and with the way things are going that makes more sense.

So... WTF went south in the 2nd half? In fairness again, O'Connell and his jabronie crew did an absolute number on us, inventing calls for ND while we weren't even in the damned bonus at the end of the game (!) --- in fact, I thought for sure they would foul us down to the buzzer at the end (Thanks, BTW). But once again, we mostly put ourselves in the precarious position of losing what should've been a working and expanding lead:

- We turned tight-ass. We stopped pushing pace --- only 2 Secondary points after 11 in the 1st --- and slowed down. Granted, part of that resulted from not securing rebounds or loose balls, but mostly from reverting to old habits in half-court. Let's focus on that for a second, as there were 3 major things that went wrong:
1. We reverted to starting possesions with that useless high lateral pass and/or (way-too-high) ball-screens. Teams have scouted that and you saw ND consistently run what I call a "shadow double" where they aren't risking full-on trapping, but still have two sets of hands obstructing any pass-out from upper no-man's land. Long story short, it stalled our previous vertical actions.
2. We reverted to isolations --- this time to Ian instead of RJ, but that's still a bad idea. Fact is, at this point in his development, Ian needs to get the rock on the move or on the catch --- his handle is just too loose right now to be reliable in isos.
3. What DID work was our fade-screen action --- we got several wide-open looks for 3s and/or runners (for both Ian and RJ) but we just missed the shots down the stretch.

- What drove me crazy on the defensive end was turning passive. ND mirrored Louisville by playing bumper-pool and forcing and/or backing the ball into the paint, and for too many possessions that 1st-half communication disappeared, or they got bailed out by sketchy whistles when we did get a stop. Here's the thing though --- why be a damn sitting duck? We could've ruined their day with some well-timed scrambles, but nada.... I honestly just don't get it. That should've been mixed in long before we got burdened with foul trouble... :rolleyes: and what the heck were we thinking in the last 4.8? We started out correctly by forcing the short inbound, but with that much time you do NOT want to have our guys backing out until you at least force a redirect by jumping the dribbler at a safe distance.

- Finally, one last time in fairness, Notre Dame ALWAYS plays us tough up there --- even when we're playing well --- and they obviously made this one a special occasion, what with their green unis and shit. But the most frustrating thing is that the cure for what ails us is not rocket science --- it's applied geometry. If nothing else, we did a bit better at that for 20 minutes today, so there's that...

Anyway, small steps are better than none, I suppose, but we'd best take more (and for a longer time) Tuesday. SMU is pretty doggone good. I'll certainly take the W today, especially since we've left little room for Ls... :cool::oops:
Serious question on JWash. Is there a reason to NOT run plays or give him more freedom mid range and behind the arch? Getting bullied underneath is obviously hindering in many ways. Why not give him opportunities to play his strength, it's frustrating. He is long, has a great stroke and is confident( has Hubs killed his confidence?). It's not like all those guards and wings are lighting it up ( well except IJack as of late) Why would he stay? I know a lot of folks wouldn't mind his departure but I'd like to at least see him play his strengths before throwing him under the bus.
 
Serious question on JWash. Is there a reason to NOT run plays or give him more freedom mid range and behind the arch? Getting bullied underneath is obviously hindering in many ways. Why not give him opportunities to play his strength, it's frustrating. He is long, has a great stroke and is confident( has Hubs killed his confidence?). It's not like all those guards and wings are lighting it up ( well except IJack as of late) Why would he stay? I know a lot of folks wouldn't mind his departure but I'd like to at least see him play his strengths before throwing him under the bus.
When we have, he has not made the shots.
 
This explains a lot about our season's lack of success. Improve this by half and we have an additional 3-4 wins. Our weapons, Cade and RJ, have to come around for us to have any chance of success.
It seems to me that Tyson looks uncomfortable out there and his shot looks awkward. I’m sure he can shoot but I think that would require heavy minutes for him to gain confidence and get into the flow- I don’t know how we could increase his minutes, especially with the emergence of Jackson.
 
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When we have, he has not made the shots

When we have, he has not made the shots.
I understand what you are saying here but has the staff really given him opportunity? I mean a couple of chances and then you bottle him up? JWash has attempted what, less than 10 3pt attempts? So far he has a good 2pt fg%(yea I know, clean up and dunks). Dude hit a good percentage last year (yea I know, small sample and limited minutes). It seems constantly running stuff through RJ, giving Cade multiple opportunities hasn't really worked all that well. I don't know how many times I've seen RJ bang shots at the worse time. Wouldn't you rather see ball movement and JWash take some good open looks? Isn't it better to see a good missed shot as opposed to a missed bad shot/one-on-one hero ball? I just think JWash could be used in a greater capacity, build his confidence and honestly give him a chance to showcase his strengths. Maybe he would heat up if he wasn't put in a box. Look at Seth T, that is a great example of developing and it didn't happen because he was put in a box. Sorry to get long winded here man but from what I've seen, there are a lot of benefits to pulling him out more and using his strengths. Teams would have to prepare for that threat, not just put a bigger, stronger dude on him under that basket, clogging it up.
 
I understand what you are saying here but has the staff really given him opportunity? I mean a couple of chances and then you bottle him up? JWash has attempted what, less than 10 3pt attempts? So far he has a good 2pt fg%(yea I know, clean up and dunks). Dude hit a good percentage last year (yea I know, small sample and limited minutes). It seems constantly running stuff through RJ, giving Cade multiple opportunities hasn't really worked all that well. I don't know how many times I've seen RJ bang shots at the worse time. Wouldn't you rather see ball movement and JWash take some good open looks? Isn't it better to see a good missed shot as opposed to a missed bad shot/one-on-one hero ball? I just think JWash could be used in a greater capacity, build his confidence and honestly give him a chance to showcase his strengths. Maybe he would heat up if he wasn't put in a box. Look at Seth T, that is a great example of developing and it didn't happen because he was put in a box. Sorry to get long winded here man but from what I've seen, there are a lot of benefits to pulling him out more and using his strengths. Teams would have to prepare for that threat, not just put a bigger, stronger dude on him under that basket, clogging it up.
I agree, but he doesn’t look to shoot either. He’s just not really aggressive enough.
 
Well, you all saw it, it took a near miracle shot by the least likely guy on the court to actually take and make a trey and get the and 1. Even given that it was almost blown by allowing Burton a free path to the basket, maybe the least likely guy on the court to miss a shot at the rim and not get a gifted foul call? That is what it took for us to beat this ND team that frankly we should have walked by 20 or more in my opinion.

Was it better, well we won, winning is always better than option 2. Positives from this game, Cappy Jack, what an amazing string of 3 games this kid has had, he has made himself in to a true 3 level scorer, for the rest of this season he will be circled by opposing coaches as the Tar Heel player to stop and so far they have not figured out how to do that. RJ, finally he is not pumping up so many bad shots, his assist total yesterday was really good to see but his number of shots I may like even more. Rather than look to shoot himself hit he worked as an effective decoy for others to score.

Cadeau, second game this kid has been the reason we won this season. No matter what, that last trey he hit and got the and 1, his at least bothering Burton on his last second attempt, game winning moves times 2. Kid has caught a lot of flack over the last few weeks, some deserved and some not deserved but he stepped up when it counted yesterday and deserves credit.

JWash, 8pts on 3-3 shooting, 6 boards, 5 blocks, a steal, with 4TOs. Didn't love the TOs but the rest is pretty decent. Still not a single face the basket jump shot.

Seth Trimble, this should be the last game he misses due to that "upper body" injury, that is a strong positive.
 
Well, you all saw it, it took a near miracle shot by the least likely guy on the court to actually take and make a trey and get the and 1. Even given that it was almost blown by allowing Burton a free path to the basket, maybe the least likely guy on the court to miss a shot at the rim and not get a gifted foul call? That is what it took for us to beat this ND team that frankly we should have walked by 20 or more in my opinion.

Was it better, well we won, winning is always better than option 2. Positives from this game, Cappy Jack, what an amazing string of 3 games this kid has had, he has made himself in to a true 3 level scorer, for the rest of this season he will be circled by opposing coaches as the Tar Heel player to stop and so far they have not figured out how to do that. RJ, finally he is not pumping up so many bad shots, his assist total yesterday was really good to see but his number of shots I may like even more. Rather than look to shoot himself hit he worked as an effective decoy for others to score.

Cadeau, second game this kid has been the reason we won this season. No matter what, that last trey he hit and got the and 1, his at least bothering Burton on his last second attempt, game winning moves times 2. Kid has caught a lot of flack over the last few weeks, some deserved and some not deserved but he stepped up when it counted yesterday and deserves credit.

JWash, 8pts on 3-3 shooting, 6 boards, 5 blocks, a steal, with 4TOs. Didn't love the TOs but the rest is pretty decent. Still not a single face the basket jump shot.

Seth Trimble, this should be the last game he misses due to that "upper body" injury, that is a strong positive.
I agree with every thing you said but, the last part is a concern to me. If and when he is reintroduced to the lineup if this isn't handled properly this will be an issue.

Where do the minutes come from? If you take Jackson's minutes for Seth that would be stupid, so where do they come from?

Hubert has to many issue as it is with coaching the last thing he needs is to have to deal with egos and parents and crap like that over playing time, and I'm telling you it's coming.

Yesterday I listened to the game on the radio and even Jones sounds perplex about somethings happening. He also make a comment about Withers arguing with Hubert, when coming off the court.

IDK I'm just ready for the experiment to be over!
 
The question now is how does Hubert handle the situation when Seth comes back?

Who is going to me the odd man out? Who is going to or should lose minutes when he comes back, because it damn sure shouldn't be Jackson.
I know what I think he should do (Hubert) but I strong doubt he will do what I think should happen. I think he should bench either RJ or Cadeau, I think I would bench RJ withthe notion that they both get equal minutes but the one that plays better gets more, same rules it seems everyone else on this team has other than RJ?

I don't like how this team is constructed but we have who we have and we have to make the best of that, to do that we have to address the mighty midget starting back court, they are being abused. Jack has done all he can to prove he deserves to start, hard to deny that. I think Seth should start, he isn't just a lock down defender, that we have missed big time since he has been out but he has added some scoring this season as well. Both of our starters in that back court are defensive liabilities and both have been less than consistently efficient on the offensive end. I actually would strongly consider pulling them both from the starting line up and run Seth at the point, Jack, at the 2, and Drake at the 3, with JWash & JWit up front. That would give us big time athleticism at the 1-3, solid length as well and give us length in our front court. So physically we could match up vs most teams.

Don't worry however, Hubert is not going to touch RJ's starting position, I guess for some reason he deserves special treatment? For some reason this team is just going to revolve around RJ and maybe I am the only one that wonders why.
 
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I agree, but he doesn’t look to shoot either. He’s just not really aggressive enough.
Yea, that seems true but is that because he's been bottled up by the staff and his confidence eroded? I dunno, maybe in the end he is just NOT as aggressive. I am having a hard time with that tho given what we've witnessed from him in the past( even in a limited role).
 
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Ye
I know what I think he should do (Hubert) but I strong doubt he will do what I think should happen. I think he should bench either RJ or Cadeau, I think I would bench RJ withthe notion that they both get equal minutes but the one that plays better gets more, same rules it seems everyone else on this team has other than RJ?

I don't like how this team is constructed but we have who we have and we have to make the best of that, to do that we have to address the mighty midget starting back court, they are being abused. Jack has done all he can to prove he deserves to start, hard to deny that. I think Seth should start, he isn't just a lock down defender, that we have missed big time since he has been out but he has added some scoring this season as well. Both of our starters in that back court are defensive liabilities and both have been less than consistently efficient on the offensive end. I actually would strongly consider pulling them both from the starting line up and run Seth at the point, Jack, at the 2, and Drake at the 3, with JWash & JWit up front. That would give us big time athleticism at the 1-3, solid length as well and give us length in our front court. So physically we could match up vs most teams.

Don't worry however, Hubert is not going to touch RJ's starting position, I guess for some reason he deserves special treatment? For some reason this team is just going to revolve around RJ and maybe I am the only one that wonders why.
D, all good points. I agree, IJack needs to start given this roster. Tremble absolutely should start, if only for his defensive contribution. Dude is also a major scoring threat so... EC needs to start, RJ becomes the 6th man? However after watching RJ yesterday, he showed some distribution qualities that I haven't really seen from him consistently. This makes descisions even more challenging. If RJ focused on distribution instead of hunting, is he a capable point? Other twist here is if you bench EC for RJ, I bet he hits the portal, that would be really bad...
 
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Serious question on JWash. Is there a reason to NOT run plays or give him more freedom mid range and behind the arch? Getting bullied underneath is obviously hindering in many ways. Why not give him opportunities to play his strength, it's frustrating. He is long, has a great stroke and is confident( has Hubs killed his confidence?). It's not like all those guards and wings are lighting it up ( well except IJack as of late) Why would he stay? I know a lot of folks wouldn't mind his departure but I'd like to at least see him play his strengths before throwing him under the bus.
You're asking a key question. All players have strengths and weaknesses, so when you have a player like Wash, who although will never be a bully underneath, but has unique skills for a BIg, MY personal philosophy is to aggressively accentuate that strength, as opposed to just hiding weaknesses.

Hell, I would FEATURE him as a primary option --- working him around the mid-post with entries for short jumpers and hooks, and yes, pop actions for 3s. That approach would open up SO much other stuff inside-out and perimeter. It's also amazing how showing confidence in a player can draw out his strengths, while not showing confidence has the exact opposite effect.
 
It seems to me that Tyson looks uncomfortable out there and his shot looks awkward. I’m sure he can shoot but I think that would require heavy minutes for him to gain confidence and get into the flow- I don’t know how we could increase his minutes, especially with the emergence of Jackson.
He needs reps and minutes and to be shown confidence by the staff. He could easily be the instant sniper that so many good teams seem to have.
 
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I agree with every thing you said but, the last part is a concern to me. If and when he is reintroduced to the lineup if this isn't handled properly this will be an issue.

Where do the minutes come from? If you take Jackson's minutes for Seth that would be stupid, so where do they come from?

Hubert has to many issue as it is with coaching the last thing he needs is to have to deal with egos and parents and crap like that over playing time, and I'm telling you it's coming.

Yesterday I listened to the game on the radio and even Jones sounds perplex about somethings happening. He also make a comment about Withers arguing with Hubert, when coming off the court.

IDK I'm just ready for the experiment to be over!
It isn't what I think SHOULD happen but what I think WILL happen is Seth will be coming off the bench and his minutes will take a hard hit. Game after game this season Seth has been our most consistent guy, he is double digit points and very strong defense, he is VERY efficient in both aspects, not another player on this team is that. I will say this clearly, Seth and Jack must start and I would add Drake to that but not him playing at the 4.

I know this for a fact, our starting Cadeau and RJ hurts us more on a consistent basis than help, they are just so small, they are being constantly abused on the defensive end, it puts to much on our already under sized front court. What very few will notice is how much Seth has done to cover a lot of those problems up, I watch a lot of his off the ball work that few folks see because they are watching the ball. Go back to games he was in and just focus on his defensive work, many times he is the stopper for 3 different guys on the same defensive stand. He is my favorite player on this team simply because of the work he puts in that he rarely gets credit for.

Having said that, I would bet the ranch that our starters for SMU wil be Cadeau/RJ/Jack/ and 2 pickem front court guys, likely Dake and JWash at the 4 & 5.
 
I say you start RJ, Jackson, Trimble, Powell and have the rest of them flip a coin to see who get the last spot.

RJ can do anything EC can do but EC can't do all that RJ can do.

Or just say **** it and if we are going to be small, go all out play RJ, EC, Jack, Powell, Seth and killem with speed.
 
Ye

D, all good points. I agree, IJack needs to start given this roster. Tremble absolutely should start, if only for his defensive contribution. Dude is also a major scoring threat so... EC needs to start, RJ becomes the 6th man? However after watching RJ yesterday, he showed some distribution qualities that I haven't really seen from him consistently. This makes descisions even more challenging. If RJ focused on distribution instead of hunting, is he a capable point? Other twist here is if you bench EC for RJ, I bet he hits the portal, that would be really bad...
Personally, I would bring Seth off the bench at least at first, but make him a first sub in the 1/2/3 rotation. I've noticed that, as a starter, Seth's max effort on D catches up with him at times. Coming off the bench --- which BTW was the original plan for him before the Memphis breakout --- may be his most effect role.
 
Nobody has to be pushed out, but minutes have to come from somebody or several somebodies. I think it gets pushed down with everyone losing some minutes but ultimately Withers and Cade losing the most minutes.
 
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I say you start RJ, Jackson, Trimble, Powell and have the rest of them flip a coin to see who get the last spot.

RJ can do anything EC can do but EC can't do all that RJ can do.

Or just say **** it and if we are going to be small, go all out play RJ, EC, Jack, Powell, Seth and killem with speed.
RJ cannot do everything EC can do. That is simply not the case.
 
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Nobody has to be pushed out, but minutes have to come from somebody or several somebodies. I think it gets pushed down with everyone losing some minutes but ultimately Withers and Cade losing the most minutes.
If that's the case, then Withers would be the first candidate, IYAM.
 
RJ cannot do everything EC can do. That is simply not the case.
Maybe that did let translate well. RJ is a better defender and a better shooter than EC. So he can do all EC can do he just might not do all that EC does as well as he does, but there shouldnt be any debate that EC can't do all that RJ can do.
 
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