RJ is mote similar a player to Joel than Caleb is, I get that this comparison was used simply to point out their similar efficiency numbers rather than a direct comparison of the 2 as being similar but Caleb and Joel for me are 2 names that should not even be in the same discussion. Now, having said that, I did feel Joel shot more than at least I wanted him to, wanted him spending more of his efforts setting his team mates up for scores, I needed more assists from him. But he started on 2 teams that played in national title games and got his own ring, number raised in honor, hell of a UNC career.
Quick stuff (State game)...
- Thread starter gary-7
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That was the year we started Theo, a lesser Cam, Maye, and Brooks alongside Joel right? If so it makes more sense in context. That wasn't a very offensively talented team, so makes sense Joel had to force a lot. Caleb should be deferring to Bacot and RJ more.
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10-4. My mistake. BTW, I wouldn’t trade one JB for two Loves.
I saw that, but did not see who that would help/ hurt in the season % shots per discussion. Caleb is at 16 and change per and Joel was 17 and change per points. JB shot better behind the 3 line, Caleb scores better driving. Very similar amount of "green light" and production on shots.
It was given in response to the question has anyone been given a green light while shooting that % before for UNC. That is all. Not the type of player. I was surprised to see answer as well.
Okay I had to look this up. They're not that similar. Joel had a 53% TS (true shooting percentage, adds value to threes so it's more accurate than FG%) his senior season, the lowest of his career. Caleb is at 48% this year. All of Joel's seasons were higher than any of Caleb's seasons, especially the latter's ghastly 41.7% as a freshman.
Joel was a little worse on twos as a senior than Caleb, but much better on threes and free throws. Separately, Joel also had 1.3 less turnovers per game despite the same usage. I do remember thinking he forced too many tough runners that year, but he was a lot better than Caleb's been.
And I said this in an earlier comment, but that was a much tougher offensive team to work with. No one had a TS above 56% in the top 6 guys except Kenny Williams with 61% on low usage, who randomly shot well from three for the only time in his career (was sub 30% as a senior and 34% in four years). Compare to Love who has Bacot, Davis, Nance, and Dunn at 59%+. He should be sharing the ball a lot more.
As I said in the original response to the question, I don't think anyone has had the green light for a career like Love with low %, I agree with that, but for his senior season Joel had it, which surprised me.
Joel's senior year and Caleb's current year numbers are both low percentage green lights. Those two years are quite similar in my opinion in shots taken, shots missed, throughout, hence the green light with low shooting % as the question asked.
I'm not trying to say the rosters are similar, or Joel's and Caleb's games are similar, or if one was warranted or not, etc. It was the response to"has anyone ever had the green light like Caleb at UNC while shooting that low of a percentage". Joel's senior year is a yes to that. I also pointed out that Joel's senior year was a strong one.
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The "green light" typically is referring to 3 pointers, therefore the 3 point percentage is really the only one that counts. Caleb's 26% doesn't compare very favorably to Berry's 35%.
In that definition I agree. I take it as the green light to take shots. Heck, I heard that terminology used for scorers even before the 3 point play was even instituted.
I thought this was UNC's second quad 1 win (Ohio State being the other)??? Yet everywhere I look shows us 1-6 vs Quad 1.
OSU is 11-8. I don't know where to find the quad rankings, but I would guess OSU isn't quad one based on that.
100% true. And that hobbled version of Cam shot us out of more games than in. Joel HAD to carry so much of the load that season, in addition to being the Floor General. However, had Joel had the modern option for a fifth year, that following season's team may well have won another Natty.
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By beating NC State we made them drop enough into quad 2.
Osu is still quad 1 but they are working their way to quad 2.
I am really starting to hate that Terq got hurt! I hate it for humanitarian reasons but I also hate it because now I can't talk junk to him for woofing at the Tar heels before the game! I also keep seeing talking heads saying the game would have been different if he had played the whole game! Does nobody realize we were up double digits with him in the lineup and that multiple peeps were playing some dadgum good D on him! We will have a tough game at their place, but I expect us to use the same blueprint to pull it out again!
Why can’t you talk junk to him for woofing at the heels before the game? Him getting hurt doesn’t change the fact of him roaring his head.
Supposedly he was out at a bar after the game, so it doesn't appear to be a serious injury.
I think you have to factor in efficiency when you discuss green lights because that touches on who should and who maybe should not have that ultimate green light. Thou I may not have really liked how much Joel shot, his went in at a better clip and his were not as much of the heat check variety. That is why we discuss green lights after all, you earn the ultimate green light by the ball going in more than other guys yet Love for some reason is not held to that standard.
When I talk about Caleb I am just offering critique on what I see, I think he is a very valuable player for us but he to often walks that line between being a huge asset and being a detriment because he is BOTH on pretty much every game. As has kind of defined his UNC career wild swings of production in every game and it seems to always come down to the decisions he makes. He does seem to be playing hard, his shots are better this season but it is like he feels restrained in some way and that effects his confidence (which he hides well), at times like a sports car with a governor? Most players when they miss a string of shots self govern, they don't keep pumping them up, as we know, Caleb is not most players. He is always well served if he starts his scoring inside the paint rather than beyond the 3pt arch yet to often it is the other way around for him.
I'll admit that I have never seen a player like Caleb and this might be why the opinions about him seem to be so wildly disparate! He has the heart of a lion but the focus of a gnat sometimes BUT when his head and heart synch up, he is unbelievable! Where I diverge from peeps is that I think the worst possible answer is to put him on the bench everytime he slips up! Hubs is brilliant when it comes to understanding players' psyches IMO and it certainly looks like he understands how to be patient enough to get the good out of Caleb!
I appreciate your optimism but good grief, you put Hubert on an impossibly high pedestal. If he falls he’s gonna break every🦴 in his body.
Congrats on the W. I look forward to the game in Raleigh when hopefully Dusan and Clark will be back. Dusan is a better matchup for Bacot inside and Clark will offer some welcome scoring in the rotation at the 4. Should be a better game all around as this one was a bit of a grinder.
I know some people just see the tail end of the conversation and may think it was an off hand comparison. I certainly see your take, and I agree I do not see Joel's and Caleb's games as similar. I was curious to another posters question of has any UNC player ever had a green light like Caleb while shooting the percentage that he does this year, as Randolph Childress has also mentioned this in the past.
I like checking stats and Joel's senior year numbers were eerily close, shots taken (15.2 to 14.6) and % made (38.5 to 39.6). We will see where Caleb ends up at the end of the year. As you pointed out Joel's 3 % was higher, but that still ended up in basically the same points per game 17 for Joel 16.5 for Caleb.
Different roster, need, player type, agreed, but that to me is a green light for very very similar amounts of scoring production for a season. It was surprising.
