Quick stuff (Villanova game)...
- Thread starter gary-7
- Start date
I think the one caveat is that last year's team would have lost that game by 20+
Was there something in my post that offended you outside of my exclamation point?
Hey at this point I'm game with them hiring you as the coach, at least you try to explain your points, and make it sound like you have a clue. Hubert doesn't have a clue, I'm convinced of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I understand what you are saying but if he’s already there and stands still in his position then he can stand like he’s doing the karate kid move. That’s his spot. Unfortunately they don’t call it that way. And that’s the glory of opinions, we don’t have to agree. Lol. And they called it a foul and I know we can’t change that part. Stink
The rule at question is about verticality, though. They teach you as a ref, if he is not vertical the contact by the arm is a defensive foul. You can not jump forward or reach forward to the ball at an angle and then say I was straight up in "my" space as they always pose to be after in an attempt to sell thst I was not angled toward the shot.
The foul occurs before the contact in "his" space if the defender has a forward angle. If you play the ball you better get it clean, or the foul is on you. That is why you do not reach forward while taking a charge as well. You could beat him to the spot, but if he makes contact with you reaching at an angle toward the ball the foul occured before the contact to the body.
Unless the offensive player extends with his off arm himself. Claiming verticality is done if you are angled toward playing the shot with your arms, you lost verticality. If it were vertical the contact should be body and arms simultaneously. Then the defender is entitled to that space. Not forward at all, even if they are the Karate Kid.
Y'know, it must have absolutely killed you having to wait 5 games to come on here and make a complete ass of yourself (yet again).
Simultaneously LMAO and SMH.
I literally just rewatched it and froze it (as opposed to that out-of-context blurry screenshot someone posted for whatever reason). The contact was initiated by the DRIVER'S shoulder into EC's chest. There was zero arm contact by EC.
ZERO.
EC beat him to the spot. By RULE, that was thus either a play-on or an offensive foul. Period.
BTW, Hubert in his post-game (being as diplomatic as needed to avoid a fine) put it best --- Villanova is very good at "selling a foul". That should tell you all ya need to know.
We can disagree on the verticality. We see it different.
What Hubert answered I actually agree with totally and was the call that bothered me the most as well. That was responding to the question about Ingram's 5th on the offensive call.
My issue was they are suppose to be tough on flops. Ingram did extend a bit with his arm while initiating, but the let's say "embellishment" is what got the call. Even that I could go along with, if Nova was not initiating before and after that on thier iso backdowns constantly.
So our guys should have "sold" it too, which is what I thought they are trying to not reward. That was a major call fouling Ingram out.
Those plays were not on the shots and the arms raised vertically or angled, which we see differently as to EC getting vertical as the offense rises for the shot and he contests. But on the back down initial contact. No arms extended on those, no shooting attempt or contests.
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This sums it up-thanks. I noticed one rebound and outlet one of our guards pushed it up and Nova was lazy getting back and we were lazy down the floor so we stopped, dribbled, and started running whatever we run offensively. smh...and welcome back to rewarding the goons.
This will be short, to wit:
I'll start with the one consolation we can take moving forward, i.e., literally EVERYTHING had to go their way in order to eke out an OT win, e.g.:
- us making unforced mistakes --- silly TOs, missing chippies, not making our normal FT pct
- us not finishing and/or not controlling rebounds thru the (CONSTANT and predicatble) hard contact
- them getting a ridiculous number of FTs, and making a ridiculous pct of those FTs
- incompetent and yes, one-sided "officiating", inventing fouls on us while enabling them to travel (hell, #43 did it twice in the same possession more than once, and pulled off a piece de resistance 4-step paint finish) and commit offensive fouls pretty much at will, yet get to the line that ridiculous number of times.
BUT finally..... the ultimate factor was totally on US. The strategic approach to try to physically match up with them was ultimately counterproductive and played right into their hands. These guys were screaming to be SPED UP!!! They are NOT quick and are not especially good passers and the few times we did pressure them they did not respond well. Instead, we played at THEIR tempo (only 10 dadgummed transition points all game!) rather than forcing ours.
Anyway, all I can say is that while I'm thankful nobody associated with that program will ever coach here --- I'd prolly gouge my own eyes out rather than watch that fugly thug-ball --- I nonetheless just don't get letting them do their iso back-ins over and over (and over), when a healthy dose of 42 and 32 would've ruined their damned day...
They did. Ingram had 1 foul before the double T. The next defensive trip he got foul #3.
I totally understand. I still believe there were two of them that were at best questionable. U do know I was just being funny with the movie reference I hope? Not a smart butt
Big observation/Small Observation
BIG: … it appears last year we worked a ton on offense leading up to the season and tried the 5 out concept that failed miserably… meanwhile our defense was sub par.
This year it appears we worked a ton on our defense (tho clearly still a work in progress, we have had more variance in the last couple games then all last season). With offense being more concept than sets (except with RJ).
I am hopeful by end of season for the team we can be because if that defense we have flashed on and off early.
AND
I think offense wise several of the turnovers were careless, but some were simply not knowing each other well enough (passing back to someone but they aren’t watching, etc…). This is solved with time.
Small: at the end of regulation , I wish we would have let Ryan drive on a curl cut… he had the best chance to score/draw a foul
BIG: … it appears last year we worked a ton on offense leading up to the season and tried the 5 out concept that failed miserably… meanwhile our defense was sub par.
This year it appears we worked a ton on our defense (tho clearly still a work in progress, we have had more variance in the last couple games then all last season). With offense being more concept than sets (except with RJ).
I am hopeful by end of season for the team we can be because if that defense we have flashed on and off early.
AND
I think offense wise several of the turnovers were careless, but some were simply not knowing each other well enough (passing back to someone but they aren’t watching, etc…). This is solved with time.
Small: at the end of regulation , I wish we would have let Ryan drive on a curl cut… he had the best chance to score/draw a foul
I did not expect to be undefeated at the end of this brutal OOC stretch. Nova was the first team we have faced that we did not have a major size/depth advantage. Nova plays physical and over the last several years that has been our weakness, we just do not stand up to physical opponents well. The question is how do they respond?
The Heels took a punch to the face yesterday, so what is next? Do they regroup and come out with their hair on fire or play hesitant waiting to see if the opponent is going to take it to them again? Last season the team never recovered from the early gut check. This team has the talent and skill set on paper to be a factor in March, but they have to show they can the other guy's best shot. Call it heart, guts, whatever you want, UNC needs to show IT on the court.
I want to see the old Carolina basketball - the team gets the W because of preparation and execution. Whether you play 2 minutes or 40, you show maximum effort every second on the floor because you do not want to let your teammates down.
The Heels took a punch to the face yesterday, so what is next? Do they regroup and come out with their hair on fire or play hesitant waiting to see if the opponent is going to take it to them again? Last season the team never recovered from the early gut check. This team has the talent and skill set on paper to be a factor in March, but they have to show they can the other guy's best shot. Call it heart, guts, whatever you want, UNC needs to show IT on the court.
I want to see the old Carolina basketball - the team gets the W because of preparation and execution. Whether you play 2 minutes or 40, you show maximum effort every second on the floor because you do not want to let your teammates down.
Hopefully teams won't shoot 79% from the FT line against us the rest of the season. That would really suck, lol.
Yeah, it was just my lame attempt to add to the joke with the intimidation factor of Ralph Macchio.
For disclosure, I have not seen this game yet nor was I able to even listen to it live, it was Thanksgiving and oh my what a banquet! So what I know about this game is from the stat sheet and watching some highlite clips. Because of that I have no idea if I agree with the opinions I see expressed in this thread!
What I do see that concerns me is our 2 returning starters box score jumps off the the at me. Bacot 4-10 (the 18 boards look good) with ZERO trips to the line) and RJ 8-22 AND 41mins (2-8 from 3pt land)? Bacot against a very physical team has ZERO trips to the line, excuse me but WHAT? RJ taking 22 shots and playing 41mins, neither are good. So let me guess, the ball was sticking to RJ and we played to much half court with RJ at the point, not a shock at all? I don't care if it had OT or not, with this team there is no excuse for RJ playing that many minutes, well unless Cadeau fouls out in 17mins as it looks like did happen. 22 shots is way to many for RJ to be taking unless he just is red shot and that does not seem to be the case. I said a coupe days ago, this team MUST get away from being so RJ/Bacot centric and spread the love around.
I shared prior to the game that those big strong guards that play really physical concerned me and that is just a bad match up for RJ and Cadeau. I shared as well I wanted Withers to start because he is a guy that can bring physicality and the 7 boards looks good, the 4 TOs do not and 2pts in 20mins don't either!
We got 10pts from our bench and Seth got half of those? JWash with 5mins, didn't take a shot in a game that Bacot once again struggled with foul trouble, High only 2mins? Can anyone explain the why of that because it makes no sense to me? Clearly Ingram and Ryan were co-players of this game for us, very efficient games for both.
Last season we play in a tourney this time of the season, we play Alabama and lose in triple OT, this season it is nova and we lose in single OT, we crumbled after that loss to bama, will the same happen this time or does this team have more intentional fortitude (guts)? We will see around 1pm today...
What I do see that concerns me is our 2 returning starters box score jumps off the the at me. Bacot 4-10 (the 18 boards look good) with ZERO trips to the line) and RJ 8-22 AND 41mins (2-8 from 3pt land)? Bacot against a very physical team has ZERO trips to the line, excuse me but WHAT? RJ taking 22 shots and playing 41mins, neither are good. So let me guess, the ball was sticking to RJ and we played to much half court with RJ at the point, not a shock at all? I don't care if it had OT or not, with this team there is no excuse for RJ playing that many minutes, well unless Cadeau fouls out in 17mins as it looks like did happen. 22 shots is way to many for RJ to be taking unless he just is red shot and that does not seem to be the case. I said a coupe days ago, this team MUST get away from being so RJ/Bacot centric and spread the love around.
I shared prior to the game that those big strong guards that play really physical concerned me and that is just a bad match up for RJ and Cadeau. I shared as well I wanted Withers to start because he is a guy that can bring physicality and the 7 boards looks good, the 4 TOs do not and 2pts in 20mins don't either!
We got 10pts from our bench and Seth got half of those? JWash with 5mins, didn't take a shot in a game that Bacot once again struggled with foul trouble, High only 2mins? Can anyone explain the why of that because it makes no sense to me? Clearly Ingram and Ryan were co-players of this game for us, very efficient games for both.
Last season we play in a tourney this time of the season, we play Alabama and lose in triple OT, this season it is nova and we lose in single OT, we crumbled after that loss to bama, will the same happen this time or does this team have more intentional fortitude (guts)? We will see around 1pm today...
David, as for Whithers......He was not good yesterday. Nova made him a driver, and that is not his game. He is a straight line, same hand, one or two dribbles finisher. He can't create, and he really isn't a back to basket option either. He was exposed some yesterday, and if you ONLY watched this game, you would say he is best suited for a bench role.
Ingram was great! He has been our best player through 5 games, but when he played the 3 spot, we only got 4 total points from Whithers and High yesterday.
Not sure why J Wash did not play more behind Bacot, as Bacot didn't play all that well besides rebounding. We needed J Wash yesterday and didn't get it, and maybe that was coaches decision 🤔.
Defense and lack of adjustments lost this game, and I put that on Hubert. In his post-game interview he pointed out that Nova only shot 38% and 23% from 3......OK, but if you include all those trips to the ft line, that are not part of shooting %, that Stat becomes meaningless. When a team shoots 32-36 from the line, it is safe to say you should probably add 10-15 plus makes without a miss to the fg%. So that 38% becomes like 70 plus %. That isn't good defensive efficiency. We doubled I think 3 times off memory. I believe we fouled once in those 3 times and the other two resulted in missed shots. But we only did this THREE TIMES!!!😔
PENN zoned Nova and beat them. We could have mixed in some zone, I don't remember a 5 man not named Alcindor or Sampson getting 34 points against a zone defense lately. Or at least double every third possession to make Nova think about that possibility? They played 1 on 1 like they were in the park.
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