I know players have individual rights and coaches have to respect those feelings. But if VT and Florida State players can put their hangs over their hearts during our anthem then why can't all the UNC Players? They may not agree with some of the things our country has done but those that have fought and died for their freedoms should garner their respect.
Respect for our Soldiers
- Thread starter MRUNC
- Start date
I very much respect what Buzz Williams taught his players a year or so back . . maybe, the occasional reminder of what our National anthem means would be a good thing.
Amen, Billy. Our President has demonstrated that you can grow up in a poor, dysfunctional family and still aspire to the highest office in the land. Only in America. That is what those men and women are fighting for and what the flag represents.
Just to clarify^^^ - as I certainly don't want to come across as unpatriotic. My reason for that post is 2 fold.
1) I think this thread is potentially more suited for OOTB as it is bound to get political. I'd rather talk about our Heels- who are a front runner for the natty- on this board.
2) It's a really unfair assessment of the kids. There are 16 teams in this league and you mentioned two that always go hand over heart. Remember being 18? Remember playing sports? Remember that adrenaline and what it was like to try and focus and have tunnel vision and put together all the thoughts from practice and settle nerves, etc, etc? I doubt the kids are even aware the National Anthem is playing. They're focused on a game against a top 10 team. Give them a break.
If they were protesting...they'd be protesting.
1) I think this thread is potentially more suited for OOTB as it is bound to get political. I'd rather talk about our Heels- who are a front runner for the natty- on this board.
2) It's a really unfair assessment of the kids. There are 16 teams in this league and you mentioned two that always go hand over heart. Remember being 18? Remember playing sports? Remember that adrenaline and what it was like to try and focus and have tunnel vision and put together all the thoughts from practice and settle nerves, etc, etc? I doubt the kids are even aware the National Anthem is playing. They're focused on a game against a top 10 team. Give them a break.
If they were protesting...they'd be protesting.
This thread not only doesn't belong here, it is the height of hypocrisy! The idea that an individual has the right to decide what respect is for everybody in this country is the exact opposite of what our men and women in uniform fight for! Just because a person does not put his hand over his heart does not mean he isn't reflecting on what makes this country great. So when the team visits military bases and shows their respect directly to those who sacrificed, does this balance it out? When they spend their limited free time visiting the sick or giving presents to the less fortunate, does this balance it out? The danger to freedom here is that we can interpret another person's actions through the filter of our own perception. Is it disrespectful when we in our homes don't stand and cover our hearts when we hear the anthem on TV or does it only fit when you are in person? I just need to know the rules you have established.
God Bless America!
Go Tar Heels!
God Bless America!
Go Tar Heels!
Granted, maybe a little. I might just be a little sensitive about ANOTHER thing peeps want to make up about my freakin' Tar Heels! We have plenty of peeps criticizing everything about us already and I was incensed to see another one!
Maybe I will avoid the obvious political jabs from now on!
Maybe I will avoid the obvious political jabs from now on!
Eh......the soldiers of past fought and died, in some cases for immediate danger to the republic. The question isn't do you have a right to do whatever you want during the national anthem. That's been settled by the men who fought. The question is should you use traditional symbolism to show respect for the fact that you are being allowed to do whatever it is you are about to, because so many gave up their securities, families, and lives so you could do it. It shows character and respect for the unwritten rule toward our military.
Poeple need to stop using our freedoms as cover for being an ass. The first amendment is protected yes, but it's not idiot proof.
Poeple need to stop using our freedoms as cover for being an ass. The first amendment is protected yes, but it's not idiot proof.
As a Vet, US NAVY 1967-1971, I don't think this needs to be on our Basketball board, heading to OOTB where it is more suited.
Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled... Oh nvm. Welcome and GMAFBAGFY.
As per always, thank you for your service Mike. And thank you for being a stand up mod.
My dad was in the Navy during the time. Believe was stationed out of Virginia. Old submariner. Grandfather served WW2. Shot 7 times and survived. Lost his right shoulder and most of his arm. Laid in a field in France for two days bleeding out before he was captured by the Germans. Stuck a M1 in his face and asked if he was a "red coat". the Germans shot the British on site injured or not. He Lived in a camp for 18 months. He rarely spoke about it, but mt grandmother would explain his silent moods and abrasiveness, just swings out of nowhere. Germans apparently tortured him for information. His best friend died horribly in a trench beside him. Real war horror story. He suffered severe PTSD at an unforgiving time for it.
He was just a simple tobacco farmer / painter in Kentucky. He never asked for anything or felt sorry for himself.
I'll do whatever is the upmost symbol of respect for you guys. The flag is about blood and sacrifice, not some tactic or social and political option.
As a vet myself, and as someone whose had a father and five uncles who all fought in WWII, I think it's fair to say that vets have a little different view about saluting the flag than non vets might. I always put my hand over my heart and sing when the National Anthem is being performed publicly. Most people don't do either anymore because American Patriotism is not PC these days, much to our discredit. But the next time you go to a game, watch the older men and you will see most of them place their hand over their hearts in respect when the Anthem is played. As long as I'm alive, I'll do the same.
It's not just an older thing -- plenty of young folks are patriotic too. I never served in the military, but I always stand at attention, hand over heart, and sing when the national anthem plays. To not do so is totally disrespectful to not only the military -- current and former -- but also the founders of this nation, and just the nation in general.
The anthem of our nation is NOT an appropriate setting to protest. I like what the Duke guy said above: just because you can protest during it, doesn't mean you should.
Hmm, now you sound like me
I agree.
As a person who's anti-PC, it has been disappointing to me to see my beloved university become more liberal and PC every year. So much so, that I don't think I'd want my child to attend UNC anymore. We've become the Cal-Berkley of the east coast.
Sure, I know it, was largely expressing that because I felt the discussion had already run its course months ago. However, since it appears it hasn't, I'll add the following.
First, as I said then, when I'm at a sporting event and the national anthem is played, I stand with my hand over my heart. I sing along if the PA asks the crowd to sing, but otherwise I don't because I like to take that moment in. With that said, I have zero problem with anyone doing whatever they want, short of yelling derogatory comments or flipping everyone off. If a person is silent during the anthem, I don't care where their hands are or the angles of their knees. They are not bothering me, and I am not bothering them (at least not on purpose).
I have no problem with players for any team standing with hands behind their backs as many of our players have done for several years. Part of the reason I don't have a problem with it is because they've done it forever, but it only seems to be a problem now for many. You can look back and see Tyler Hansbrough or Vince Carter or Michael Jordan doing this and no one said anything then. I just watched a clip of Marvin Gaye singing the national anthem at the NBA All Star game in 83, and most of the players and most in the crowd do not have their hands over their hearts, yet they are super engaged in the performance of the anthem. I don't believe our players are protesting by doing this, I think they largely are trying to stay focused on the game, which is what they and everyone in attendance is there for. So I never took it as some larger meaning.
As I said, as long as someone is quiet during the national anthem, regardless of posture, I don't really have a problem with what they are doing because I don't think about it. I have much more of a problem with the State fans who yell "home of the Wolfpack" at the end of the anthem. That is far more offensive and disrespectful to me than someone not having their hand over their heart.
So that's my two cents on the matter, Go Heels Go America
"I have no problem with players for any team standing with hands behind their backs as many of our players have done for several years. Part of the reason I don't have a problem with it is because they've done it forever, but it only seems to be a problem now for many."
The original post was started by someone who simply said he'd like to see UNC players place their hands over their hearts for the Anthem, as would I. He didn't say he had a problem with players who didn't. There's a big difference.
"If a person is silent during the anthem, I don't care where their hands are or the angles of their knees."
Here's where we differ mainly. Not standing is a sign of disrespect, IMO. I think Kapp meant it that way too. Just like wearing socks with pictures of pigs with police caps on, it was disrespectful and uncalled for. Even if it was done as a sign of protest, wrong place, wrong time.
"I don't believe our players are protesting by doing this, I think they largely are trying to stay focused on the game, which is what they and everyone in attendance is there for."
The human brain, even that of athletes who generally aren't our brightest, is a computer of extreme complexity. I think these guys are perfectly capable of paying respect to the Anthem and staying focused on the game at the same time.
Again, I'm an older guy and a vet, so I look at the Anthem a little differently. I think most vets would tell you the same thing.
The original post was started by someone who simply said he'd like to see UNC players place their hands over their hearts for the Anthem, as would I. He didn't say he had a problem with players who didn't. There's a big difference.
"If a person is silent during the anthem, I don't care where their hands are or the angles of their knees."
Here's where we differ mainly. Not standing is a sign of disrespect, IMO. I think Kapp meant it that way too. Just like wearing socks with pictures of pigs with police caps on, it was disrespectful and uncalled for. Even if it was done as a sign of protest, wrong place, wrong time.
"I don't believe our players are protesting by doing this, I think they largely are trying to stay focused on the game, which is what they and everyone in attendance is there for."
The human brain, even that of athletes who generally aren't our brightest, is a computer of extreme complexity. I think these guys are perfectly capable of paying respect to the Anthem and staying focused on the game at the same time.
Again, I'm an older guy and a vet, so I look at the Anthem a little differently. I think most vets would tell you the same thing.
And it's a shame. I think nearly all universities are doing it. Hell, I went to a community college before the university of Memphis. My first collegiate experience in a classroom was an ethics class. First question of the alt left professor was "were the terrorist justified on 9/11?" I couldn't believe it, and that was 2005. I fought Western European ideological professors my entire college career.
I was told by a professor at Memphis when I was 20, "do you not realize being liberal in youth shows heart? Being conservative in adulthood shows brains? I've had he same answer since I was 18 years old.
Guess I've always been heartless.
I've never gotten the impression from any of our players that they don't respect our soldiers. I'd be willing to bet that they have no clue that people feel disrespected because they don't put their hand over their heart. I think that when they stand up and remain silent for the anthem that is their way of showing their respect.
There might be a difference saying he'd like to see it vs having a problem with it, but I think it's a small difference, because if he would like to see what isn't happening, it implies he had a problem with what was happening. My big point is that this has been happening for a long time, players and fans standing without their hands on their heart, black and white, football, basketball, baseball, wherever they play the anthem, but once Kap took a knee, it became a problem, and I felt that OP was perceiving things that weren't there because of the current climate when in reality, fans and athletes alike have been doing it for years. I am not bothered by it because it doesn't affect me or how I choose to honor the flag/anthem. I understand this is my view on it and that it won't be the same as many on this board, and that's ok. This was also a reason I rolled my eyes when I saw this reemerge because there was a big discussion before, both sides stayed where they were, so I probably should have stayed out. I have nothing but respect for those who serve in the military, I am the grandson of two who served, and I regularly go to Warsaw, NC for the longest running Veteren's Day celebration in the country. With that said, a sporting event is not by design a patriotic event, so I let people do their thing without giving them much thought. I don't worry about those without their hands on their heart for the same reason I don't pat people on the back for doing the same as me. Anyway, I've said far more on this than I planned to, so I'm gonna leave it alone. As I said before, Go Heels, Go America
