Scholly Math ?

[DSouthr]

7th, kenny, Brob, Theo, Tony, Luke, Jalek, Platek, and Rush = 9 schollys if both Joel and Justin leave, leaves 4 to offer. But what if one doesn't leave, what if neither leave? Means we can not bring in more than 2 more guys unless we take away schollys from either Luke or Rush. Not a doubt in my mind we will bring in 2 bigs from this class.

But keep in mind one other variable, 2018 class, we already have leaky committed, who do we lose other than Theo assuming Joel & Justin leave after next season? 1 commit and 1 open ship if both Rush and Luke stay on scholly? That makes for a really weak class unless someone blows up and is able to leave early or we get a one & done or 2 from 2017. I think we have to go in to the 2018 class with the ability to bring in 3 and one already taken by Leaky, so 2 additional players to come from 2018 from 1 available scholly? We are going to absolutely need a PG between this 2017 class and the 2018 class and I think we need to bring in a front court player in every class and we will be low on wings by the time the 2018 class rolls in with Theo being gone by the time the 2018 commits suit up, maybe leaky is a wing by then (needs to work on his scoring), maybe BRob is a full fledged wing by then, and maybe Rush is ready to play or maybe we small ball with 2 shooting guards and a point? FYI, I think we are in pretty good shape with a couple of well reguarded wings from 2018.

OK, so why go thru all this, we have in other threads discussed wish lists for this 2017 class. Now I am staunch in that I personally prefer we do not bring anyone else in that is not a front court guy unless it is Sexton, I like Sexton a lot and think he could step in at PG if Joel were to leave, at least he could groom for a year with Joel if Joel didn't leave. But we don't have a single front court player committed yet, and we really need 3 but we absolutely must have at least 2 to go with Tony and Luke. And looks to me like we may only have 3 ships to offer so even my wanting Sexton is a problem numbers wise and some want both a PG and a wing in addition to big men? I am fine if it is the right PG from 2017 but would be just as fine with a 2018 PG because we should have Jalek and 7th and Stillman to get by with if Joel leaves early.

If Roy gives Rush and Luke schollys, he really does not want or like to take them back even thou a scholly is for only 1 season. We all know how loyal Roy is to his players and we should all admire that. But we have a LOT of back court guys now and it does not look like we will have a lot to offer 2018 recruits who look for now to be more receptive to us than the top shelf 2017 kids do. So maybe 2 more guys brought in for 2017 and those 2 be FRONT COURT GUYS and hold one for 2018?

 

[johnhelvete]

Maye was brought in with the understanding that as a freshman he would walk on and than have a scholarship for his final three years. It worked out that he did have a ship his freshman year. I would consider Maye a scholarship player.

Rush is a preferred walk on who is guaranteed a ship when we have less than 13 scholarship players. He will have a ship for the upcoming season and will probably end up in the same situation as Jackson Simmons (who I am pretty sure had a ship for three of his four years) due to the likelihood of early departures for the NBA in the upcoming seasons. I dont think there is even a question that the scholarship that Rush is using for the upcoming season is available for the 2017 recruiting class. Which would give us 3 ships still available plus a very good chance that at least one of the juniors (most likely Jackson) leaves early for the NBA.

 

[DSouthr]

Maye was brought in with the understanding that as a freshman he would walk on and than have a scholarship for his final three years. It worked out that he did have a ship his freshman year. I would consider Maye a scholarship player.

Rush is a preferred walk on who is guaranteed a ship when we have less than 13 scholarship players. He will have a ship for the upcoming season and will probably end up in the same situation as Jackson Simmons (who I am pretty sure had a ship for three of his four years) due to the likelihood of early departures for the NBA in the upcoming seasons. I dont think there is even a question that the scholarship that Rush is using for the upcoming season is available for the 2017 recruiting class. Which would give us 3 ships still available plus a very good chance that at least one of the juniors (most likely Jackson) leaves early for the NBA.

True on Luke but I would also suggest that Mark would be very open to "pay the way" for Luke if a game changer recruit could be snagged with his scholly. And keep in mind, all schools have this funny way of being able to find enough "non-athletic" scholarship money available to cover what is lost by giving up the athletic scholly.

 

[johnhelvete]

True on Luke but I would also suggest that Mark would be very open to "pay the way" for Luke if a game changer recruit could be snagged with his scholly. And keep in mind, all schools have this funny way of being able to find enough "non-athletic" scholarship money available to cover what is lost by giving up the athletic scholly.

I would agree that Maye would likely be willing to give up his ship for a OAD and in a way it would be a "give back" for the ship that he was not guaranteed as a freshman.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I don't see hardly any way that Jackson comes back for a 4th year. Berry? I'm not sure on him. But if I had to guess, I'd say he's gone after this season as well.

I would like a PG too. I really like the Weatherspoon kid but everybody else at this board seems to favor Dotson in the next year's class. But if I had my wish, we'd get Weatherspoon, Bamba and Washington and then move on to 2018 where we'd have 3 'ships available with one already being taken by Leaky.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I am fine if it is the right PG from 2017 but would be just as fine with a 2018 PG because we should have Jalek and 7th and Stillman to get by with if Joel leaves early.

I thought this was going to be Stilman's senior year.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

7th, kenny, Brob, Theo, Tony, Luke, Jalek, Platek, and Rush = 9 schollys if both Joel and Justin leave, leaves 4 to offer. But what if one doesn't leave, what if neither leave? Means we can not bring in more than 2 more guys unless we take away schollys from either Luke or Rush. Not a doubt in my mind we will bring in 2 bigs from this class.

Are both their scholarships conditional? I thought Luke's was only conditional as a frosh, but normal thereafter. I don't know anything about Rush's situation.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Maye was brought in with the understanding that as a freshman he would walk on and than have a scholarship for his final three years. It worked out that he did have a ship his freshman year. I would consider Maye a scholarship player.

Rush is a preferred walk on who is guaranteed a ship when we have less than 13 scholarship players. He will have a ship for the upcoming season and will probably end up in the same situation as Jackson Simmons (who I am pretty sure had a ship for three of his four years) due to the likelihood of early departures for the NBA in the upcoming seasons. I dont think there is even a question that the scholarship that Rush is using for the upcoming season is available for the 2017 recruiting class. Which would give us 3 ships still available plus a very good chance that at least one of the juniors (most likely Jackson) leaves early for the NBA.

Thanks. I didn't see this before raising my questions.

 

[Sk1310]

I don't see hardly any way that Jackson comes back for a 4th year. Berry? I'm not sure on him. But if I had to guess, I'd say he's gone after this season as well.

I would like a PG too. I really like the Weatherspoon kid but everybody else at this board seems to favor Dotson in the next year's class. But if I had my wish, we'd get Weatherspoon, Bamba and Washington and then move on to 2018 where we'd have 3 'ships available with one already being taken by Leaky.

Im with you Slinger, people are raving about weatherspoon. Great scorer with the pull up j and in transition, great court awareness, good size for PG and a very good defender. Whats not to like? Everything im reading is that he is vastly underrated right now in the rankings and will be mcdonalds all american candidate.

 

[DSouthr]

Are both their scholarships conditional? I thought Luke's was only conditional as a frosh, but normal thereafter. I don't know anything about Rush's situation.

Well both came in as walk ons but Luke was put on scholly as a freshman because we could, deal was if one was available and it was for Luke, Rush has the same deal. Now scholly are always 1yr deals but there is the assumption that a non-walk on will get one each year for as long as they have eligibility. Most coachs and especially Roy, hate to give a kid a scholly and then take it back without that kid doing something that hurts the program. So once they are put on scholly it is hard top go back and say, we don't have one for you this season.

WWJD asked about Stillman and my indicating that Stillman had 2 more seasons with us. When I did this thread it kinda evolved and one of the things I was thinking going in was that Stillman maybe had 2 seasons eligibility left and when I looked I realized it was just next season. So I had to re-balance everything and thought I had corrected any reference to him and 2 more seasons, I missed that one reference, thanks for the catch.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Bottom line, what I want is:

3 bigs - 2 ready to go as frosh; the 3rd can be a project (but not too much of a project).
1 pure PG
1 true SF

Assuming we lose Justin while giving Luke a scholarship but not giving Rush one, we have 4 scholarships. Is that right?

So we only have 4 scholarships - not enough scholarships for everything I want.

Moreover, to my knowledge Roy has never signed someone without knowing for sure he had a scholarship for him (invited walkons excepted). Which could mean we are only talking about having 3 scholarships to give until next spring.

The problem with both the PG and SF positions is that although we may have guys who can play those positions and play them very well, we don't have any proven guys, and the backup situation is bleak.

The tendency is to think that SF won't be a problem. Theo will fill in. And he will. But how good will he be? And who will back him up? And where are we if he goes pro or is injured?

Most people think either 7th or Jalek or both can handle the point. But, again, they are unproven, and even if 1 of them turns out to be a very good point, it's unlikely that both will.

The point position is compounded by whether Joel will still be here. My guess is that he'll be good enough to go pro as a junior, but will probably return. 60-40 that he comes back. But, again, that's a pure guess.

So . . . my question for people like Dave, Arch, Gary and others is if we only hand out 3 more scholarships to the 2017 class, what do you want?

 

[Steat]

Berry (barring an injury) and Jackson are leaving after this year and they should leave. If Pinson blows up and have a Brice type breakout season he may leave also. If the Heels get Bamba, Knox or Washington that player is one-in-done and will not be around in 2018. There will plenty of ships available.

 

[johnhelvete]

Bottom line, what I want is:

3 bigs - 2 ready to go as frosh; the 3rd can be a project (but not too much of a project).
1 pure PG
1 true SF

Assuming we lose Justin while giving Luke a scholarship but not giving Rush one, we have 4 scholarships. Is that right?

So we only have 4 scholarships - not enough scholarships for everything I want.

Moreover, to my knowledge Roy has never signed someone without knowing for sure he had a scholarship for him (invited walkons excepted). Which could mean we are only talking about having 3 scholarships to give until next spring.

The problem with both the PG and SF positions is that although we may have guys who can play those positions and play them very well, we don't have any proven guys, and the backup situation is bleak.

The tendency is to think that SF won't be a problem. Theo will fill in. And he will. But how good will he be? And who will back him up? And where are we if he goes pro or is injured?

Most people think either 7th or Jalek or both can handle the point. But, again, they are unproven, and even if 1 of them turns out to be a very good point, it's unlikely that both will.

The point position is compounded by whether Joel will still be here. My guess is that he'll be good enough to go pro as a junior, but will probably return. 60-40 that he comes back. But, again, that's a pure guess.

So . . . my question for people like Dave, Arch, Gary and others is if we only hand out 3 more scholarships to the 2017 class, what do you want?

If we only have 3 ships to give out than I think that would mean 2 big men and whatever wing/guard says yes first (meaning it would either be Randolph or Weatherspoon). Which might explain the lack of offer for Coleman, since Roy might view Weatherspoon as a PG than can also play the 2, while Coleman is a true PG.

 

[dadika13]

I promise you that if we get enough commits, we will pull schollys from Luke and Rush. As someone said above, this happens all the time and the school finds the way to pay for players "non-athletically".

 

[DSouthr]

Bottom line, what I want is:

3 bigs - 2 ready to go as frosh; the 3rd can be a project (but not too much of a project).
1 pure PG
1 true SF

Assuming we lose Justin while giving Luke a scholarship but not giving Rush one, we have 4 scholarships. Is that right?

So we only have 4 scholarships - not enough scholarships for everything I want.

Moreover, to my knowledge Roy has never signed someone without knowing for sure he had a scholarship for him (invited walkons excepted). Which could mean we are only talking about having 3 scholarships to give until next spring.

The problem with both the PG and SF positions is that although we may have guys who can play those positions and play them very well, we don't have any proven guys, and the backup situation is bleak.

The tendency is to think that SF won't be a problem. Theo will fill in. And he will. But how good will he be? And who will back him up? And where are we if he goes pro or is injured?

Most people think either 7th or Jalek or both can handle the point. But, again, they are unproven, and even if 1 of them turns out to be a very good point, it's unlikely that both will.

The point position is compounded by whether Joel will still be here. My guess is that he'll be good enough to go pro as a junior, but will probably return. 60-40 that he comes back. But, again, that's a pure guess.

So . . . my question for people like Dave, Arch, Gary and others is if we only hand out 3 more scholarships to the 2017 class, what do you want?

I want 3 bigs, I will be OK if those 3 bigs are B-level guys (4stars), would of course prefer a couple 5 stars but if we can get three 4star big men in the hand, it beats waiting for the maybe of Two 5stars in the bush.

My pecking order for big men:

1 - Bamba, 2 - McCoy, 3 - Knox, 4 - PJ, from there the list of B - level 4 star guys.

Now if we only get 2 big men then I can go along with a really good PG, I like Sexton more than spoon honestly. I am just not at all sold on taking a wing in this class, even Randolph. Reason being I think we can do well with a couple wings in 2018, one big wing in particular. IN addition, I really think Leaky will be a wing and should be considered a wing by the time he gets to us, truth is he could be a 4 by then if he grows another couple inches. I do believe Theo can do a fine job taking over for Justin, he would just play the position differently than Justin does but I think BRob will gravitate more to the 3 after next season and I really do think Rush will be a player for us, just don't know if that is his soph season or Jr season but that kid is a great walk on even by our standards, kid could become a David Noel level walk on.

My point being that I just do NOT feel the need for a wing in this 2017 class, would rather we got our next wing from the 2018 class UNLESS Knox really is a wing and we can get him, then I am all in for that. I see Knox more as a 4/3 than 3/4 but either way I would love to have him as a Heel!

In 2018, if we do not have another PG by then, either from this 2017 class or someone already with us that steps up, then we have to get a PG from 2018. I don't like to see a class pass where we do not get at least 1 front court guy. Getting a wing in 2018 could become a numbers crunch.

To explain my view on big men, I get concerned when we have less than 4 solid front court guys over 6'8". Some times and in some years we have got by with just 3 but just 3 is so risky. First you never know when injury will hit and big men tend to get more injuries than guards. Foul trouble can kill ya if you only have 3 bigs on your roster. Last year for example, Joel did not play huge minutes but many times his minutes were huge in how badly we needed what we got from him. I really hope Luke can step up this season and show he can be a productive 4th big for us for next season but I have to see more to feel confident that he will.

With Luke, honestly right now I see him more as a throw back 3, back to the day when the 3 was considered a small forward rather than a wing. Sort of like a Matt Doherty type of small forward, before ya laugh we won a Natty with Matt at the 3.

 

[DSouthr]

Berry (barring an injury) and Jackson are leaving after this year and they should leave. If Pinson blows up and have a Brice type breakout season he may leave also. If the Heels get Bamba, Knox or Washington that player is one-in-done and will not be around in 2018. There will plenty of ships available.

I am not absolutely sold that PJ will be one & done, he could be but he will really IMO need to blow up as a scorer when he gets to college. Just reminds me of that George Lynch type of guy that does a lot to help you win but a lot of it goes un-noticed. Looks to me like a Lynch type of scorer as well, not a great shooter but you can't give him free looks at mid range jumpers, gets his from big time motor and a extraordinary will to not back down from any challenge.

I am not sure how well those things will translate to the NBA scouts in just a freshman season. He is a under sized 4 and I just don't see him stuffing the stat sheets as a freshman that screams he is ready for the NBA today. If you think back to George Lynch as a freshman then you will realize exactly how I see PJ.