Should Cadeau Sit
- Thread starter thomdrix
- Start date
Season is over, why sit him. I am hoping he enters the portal and is gone.
I really don't care which sits and which begins the game but 1 of either Cadeau or RJ needs to come off the bench. Together our back court is tiny and yet our front court is also to small. We simply need more size to matchup as much as we can. Their time on court should be very limited when they are both in together.
He seems to be more of a head case than a fluid, low-maintenance PG with intuitive skills and laid back attitude.
I think the team would be better if Rj sat, but we know that’s not going to happen. Rj is the same guard who dribbles down one side of the court and does a reverse spin dribble. I think putting Elliott with Ian, drake, withers and Washington is a top 16 lineup.
I think a top 16 starting lineup is a pretty big exaggeration. The difference between this team being a borderline second weekend NCAA Tournament vs like the 40th best team in the country isn't a simple lineup change. The difference is wholesale changes.
I mean, Cadeau is the same guard who fouls at an alarming rate, can be turnover prone (although we're getting to the "was this turnover Cadeau's fault or not game that we do for bad NFL QBs), and is unreliable from the FT line. For me, the better question is should Cadeau be in the closing lineup of games where possessions and free throw shooting become critical?
There's no lineup combination on this team that makes it a top 16 team because the players aren't good enough. Think Cadeau is an upper echelon PG in the country? No. Ian's certainly talented but just went through a month stretch where he scored like 20 total points. Drake Powell is talented but that's it right now. And a Withers/Washington front line is probably a really inconsistent front line because they've been inconsistent players their entire college careers.
He was the starting PG on a team that won the ACC and got a #1 seed. And somehow we have fans that want him gone as a sophomore?
I personally want to see him throwing lobs to Caleb Wilson.
I personally want to see him throwing lobs to Caleb Wilson.
Depends on who the other 3 are. If it’s Seth, Powell, upgraded 5 I think the PG needs to be upgraded to a scorer and plus shooter.
I’m just going to guess Wilson is a downgrade from Ingram. So can they add talent to replicate last season’s team? A lot of work to do.
If it’s Cadeau-Seth-Powell-Wilson-Upgraded 5… there’s a ceiling to that team. They might be better than this seasons team. But I don’t think you can win in today’s basketball with 2 unwilling shooters in the backcourt.
Specifically for Cadeau, it obviously depends who would replace him. He isn’t irreplaceable.
Agreed, but more importantly, this team needs to hit the HC portal and pay up no way around it.
Couldn’t disagree more. He is on a dysfunctional team that lacks sufficiently talented bigs and is coached poorly by nice man who is in over his head. For all practical purposes, this season is over and has been for a while. I hate it but there it is .
I slightly prefer Cadeau to start and RJ come off the bench but so much that I would get all bent if Cadeau sat and RJ started at the point. With Cadeau for me his main problem is a severe lack of maturity. He has fantastic PG skills but his play is not mature to the point that he understands how to mesh his skills with his team mates. For example, he will force a tough pass in to Lubin, that maybe Drake could snag but not Lubin. It may have been a great pass had he passed it to a guy that could catch it but a lack of maturity does not seem to tell him, nope, can't throw that to Lubin, for example.
Cadeau isn't doing as much of the child like arguments with the refs as he did last season but he still gives worthless fouls that limit him and he is slow to show the overall savoy you need from your PG, he should be further along than this by now?. I get the sense that the kid has been able to get away with just being so utterly talented that he really didn't have to work much on refining his skill and now that he has to it isn't coming as easy as you would think.l He seems to have some really bad habits that are so ingrained, that he falls back to when things get hard, just can't seem to do away with them?
Something in my gut says he’s going to hit transfer portal after season
I think he’s got the tools, they just need to be honed a bit. Regardless of who plays with who, or who sits, we need he and RJ to play and play well in order to do anything that resembles winning. Jmo
My gut says the same thing.
I don’t think our program has any control over what EC will do. I think he knows he’s being misused & he’s not happy about it. I certainly hope I’m wrong, as I’m a big EC fan, I just don’t think he’s in agreement with the “scheme”, or lack thereof that he’s involved in. I think he thinks this is not what he signed up for, but what do I know?
Trimble will most likely be in the portal or turning pro.
And based on their rankings, we shouldn't expect them to contribute much as freshmen.
If you make a list of all the guards that have come to UNC in the past 25 years with similar rankings, guess how many of them were significant contributors as freshmen?
Best case scenario is maybe one of them will be a decent contributor off the bench as a freshman. But it will probably be sophomore season or later before either really starts to shine. Which is why we're going to need our new GM to hit a homerun in the transfer portal this offseason.
We don’t run an offense, not a recognizable one anyway.
Tell you what, I’ll make you a bet that Cadeau is not a Tar Heel next year, & I’ll be happy as heck to be wrong.
Turning Pro😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Where is he playing pro ball at next year….He can’t shoot and his handle is loose….He is an undersized SF….
As far as EC who cares at this point if he leaves he leaves….If he comes back that’s fine 2….
No way in hell you can go into next season with EC and Seth starting at the 1 and 2….They can’t make shots and hell EC misses FT late in games….Thats your starting PG….
This roster needs so much next year….Are we expecting the 2 guards coming in to be impactful….I have said this if you think this year is bad you ain’t seen nothing…
What happens if all these guys leave
Ian —-Pro many expect this
Drake—-Pro maybe maybe not
EC——Portal many are saying that
Seth——-Portal he ain’t going Pro unless it’s overseas or the G-League….
Cadeau isn't much of a shooting threat. Seems like he's about a 64% FT shooter. He occasionally goes to the rim with success, but he also gets his shot blocked with authority among the trees.
The takes of EC and Seth not being a competitive backcourt tandem, I agree with. Just too hard to compete in the modern game with two reluctant 3 ball shooters in the backcourt.
Seth is an athletic piece player, perfect with a team with perimeter scoring threats, to play that role. To pair him with a create for others, who other teams double dog dare to shoot, point man as your backcourt on a regular basis is a bad strategy.
Seth is an athletic piece player, perfect with a team with perimeter scoring threats, to play that role. To pair him with a create for others, who other teams double dog dare to shoot, point man as your backcourt on a regular basis is a bad strategy.
None of that stopped his brother from turning pro after his junior year.
You clearly didn't learn anything from Tokoto.
Yea 2DD, I think the same. Glad you said it...I'm a huge EC fan but I think he is unhappy, something is really wrong with this team and it's leadership.
That's a legit concern for sure.
From what I know, Eliot loves it here. He also knows he has a comfortable NIL HQ here as well, if he chooses to remain in college. But yeah, I too am concerned about "buy-in" (as I've mentioned before)... and that applies across the roster, truth be known.
And I also know that there are other programs trying to poach him as we speak (and it makes my head hurt that some UNC fans don't get how in-demand EC is, and will be even more so should he decide to leave). Again, just friggin wow at the fan disconnect on just how good he is (as reflected in where this misguided thread went)...
I would be shocked if Cadeau is back in Chapel Hill. I hate it because I really like the pass-first pg. I think the roster make-up has really hurt his development. His strength is in finding the open guy in a spread offense, especially in a secondary break scenario before a D can get set. With his ability to penetrate he really needs consistent shooters for a kick-out or bigs who know how to get into scoring position. Not surprising he looked much better last season when he had those options.
The downside I have seen is that he lacks maturity on the court at times, and is prone to frustration fouls. Also, his size hurts, especially when the other guard is also undersized. I do fault him for not improving his shooting. If you are pg you need to be at least 85% ft shooter - the team needs the ball in your hands in crunch time but if you are a liability at the line that hurts. Also, 3-point shooting is something that can be improved but takes HOURS of time a dedicated work ethic to do it.
I have though that this UNC team needs the best version of Cadeau to hit their ceiling. There have been stretches (1st half of Wake and maybe Stanford or Pitt part 2) where he was the best player on the court for UNC, but not consistently. He will attract interest in the portal if he goes, and I could see a game against him where he absolutely torches UNC.
Hoping he stays and can have a solid roster around him that complements his strengths, but I could him being tired of the criticism and feeling like no one has really had his back. And Hubert's preseason comments did not help to temper expectations.
The downside I have seen is that he lacks maturity on the court at times, and is prone to frustration fouls. Also, his size hurts, especially when the other guard is also undersized. I do fault him for not improving his shooting. If you are pg you need to be at least 85% ft shooter - the team needs the ball in your hands in crunch time but if you are a liability at the line that hurts. Also, 3-point shooting is something that can be improved but takes HOURS of time a dedicated work ethic to do it.
I have though that this UNC team needs the best version of Cadeau to hit their ceiling. There have been stretches (1st half of Wake and maybe Stanford or Pitt part 2) where he was the best player on the court for UNC, but not consistently. He will attract interest in the portal if he goes, and I could see a game against him where he absolutely torches UNC.
Hoping he stays and can have a solid roster around him that complements his strengths, but I could him being tired of the criticism and feeling like no one has really had his back. And Hubert's preseason comments did not help to temper expectations.
We are going to need EC next year no matter who is coaching. No RJ, No Jackson, and Seth's attributes may be a great fit for other schools next year.
A true PG is as hard to find, we already have nobody in the front court.
Every thread ends the same with this team. We have no quality bigs, and until we get that we are a .500 team in college basketball.
Keep Ballin EC, not his fault because we have no bigs. We asked a passing PG to play with no bigs.
A true PG is as hard to find, we already have nobody in the front court.
Every thread ends the same with this team. We have no quality bigs, and until we get that we are a .500 team in college basketball.
Keep Ballin EC, not his fault because we have no bigs. We asked a passing PG to play with no bigs.
Hubert has had his back all season. Never once pulled him from the starting lineup. Next season we'll finally have a lob threat big man to pass to in Wilson, and hopefully get back to having a Carolina caliber center too.
All the criticism has some from a small vocal group of dumb fans, who don't seem to realize just how much Cadeau and this team have been hurt by the fact we have no UNC caliber starting big men.
He needs to get better at the FT line and he needs to stop the silly fouls. His 3pt percentage has significantly improved this year and I'd expect it to keep improving next year. He'd probably have significantly less turnovers if he had decent bigs who could consistently catch passes, and if he wasn't having to force things to try and generate offense on this poorly constructed team.
I'd also like to point out how clutch he's been this season. 3 separate games he was the guy who defended the final shot and forced the game saving miss (something Trimble failed to do against Stanford.) Against Notre Dame his 4 point play absolutely saved us. Then this weekend against Syracuse, with the team imploding and our lead cut to 2, he spun past his man and delivered a crucial layup to give us a 4 point cushion. On the next defensive possession he grabbed a rebound a flew up the court to get it into RJ's hands, ensuring RJ would be able to secure the win at the FT line. That's 5 likely losses added onto our season if not for the late game play of sophomore Elliot Cadeau.
When we talk about being misused this season I look at guys like DRake or Seth who are constantly having to play out of position. I look at JWit, averaging less than 7mins a game in a string of recent games up to the last game. Cadeau has play exclusively his natural position at the point, had had a ton of minutes only limited by his picking up full trouble in nearly every game.
Maybe the single greatest example of Cadeau being used in the way he should is that Hubert has forced this offense to spread the court to open up driving lanes for Cadeau and not force him to jump shoot. Now if you want to talk about the kid's short comings I will be right there with you but Cadeau has been one of 2 guys that have not been misused from the kid's stand point, maybe using him as much as we did was misuse for the team but not the player.
Well if we're going to play the "clutch" game with Cadeau, I'll play the other card too.
- Kansas: misses the game tying 3 at the end of regulation. It's harsh to place too much criticism, but mentioning it here because I think the Notre Dame 3+1 was a little more luck than Cadeau being a clutch shooter.
- Michigan State: Cadeau misses the wide open uncontested lefty layup, which would've given UNC a 1 pt lead with under 20 seconds left
- Florida: Cadeau had a turnover in the final 90 seconds of a tied game. He missed the front end of a 1-and-1 down 4 under 30 seconds. If I recall, it was Cadeau's miscues plus the inability to get a defensive rebound that cost UNC the game.
- Stanford: Cadeau missed the first of 2 FTs with 2:30 left. Every point mattered in that game.
- Pitt: It's harsh and it was a great pass by Cadeau but I don't think he should've attempted the bounce pass to Lubin. That can go either way but just sharing my opinion on that. I think he needs to know better. It also led to a Pitt 3 in semi-transition. Cadeau gets a late 3 blocked when he tried to shoot over a player 8 inches taller than him. Again, might be harsh especially with the time and score at that point.
So like most things, there are 3 sides to every narrative. One side, the other side, and the truth. So just putting it out there. While Cadeau has played well at times in clutch time, he has also had some puzzling moments. And that's been consistent for the entire team. That's why they find themselves where they are.
For next season, I think it depends who's around Cadeau and honestly what kind of player Wilson is. If Wilson is a unicorn 4 who has limited scoring ability but can get 4 assists/game and you can run your entire offense around him, I would try to get more of a scorer/shooter PG than one who needs the ball in his hands at all times in order to impact the game. If Wilson is just a plain limited offensive player apart from transition and offensive rebounds, then they need to upgrade massively at the 5 and the 2 in order for it to work with Cadeau IMO.
Credit to him for improving his 3PT percentage this season. I'm still wary that a player who attempts 2 3's per game and is such an unwilling shooter can be sustainable with another backcourt player who's an unwilling shooter. One of the 2 guards needs to be a high-volume and relatively efficient enough 3PT shooter. I prefer both but that depends on the other 3 guys in the lineup.
Cadeau is a talented and improving PG. There's nothing wrong with that. I also don't think there's anything wrong with exploring options. He's a unique player that requires the team around him to be built a certain way. And I don't think it's as simple as getting a better 4 and 5.
A strong concern I have with Cadeau looking at next season is that he is a hesitant jump shooter. A guard that is a hesitant jump shooter is a guard that does not believe in his jump shot, period. Pairing Cadeau with Seth, who is to me the natural guy to start at the 2 next season means we have 2 hesitant jump shooters in our starting back court? That to me is nearly as bad as having 2 tiny guards as your starting back court. It forces me to question between Cadeau and Seth which player contributes more to this team winning. Kind of easy for me, I will take the big time defender that brings it every game over the PG that may lead the ACC in TOs and lives with foul trouble. It is a easy call for me as to which of the 2 is more valuable to this team.
Cadeau is uber talent he is high reward but he is as well high risk but he has in my view under achieved as a soph, very disappointed his jump shooting did not really change much from last season. We need to portal in a PG any way no matter if Cadeau stays or leaves because it does not seem as if Cadeau can figure out how to stay out of foul trouble or stop throwing the ball away out of poor decisions making and just being to casual.
Cadeau is uber talent he is high reward but he is as well high risk but he has in my view under achieved as a soph, very disappointed his jump shooting did not really change much from last season. We need to portal in a PG any way no matter if Cadeau stays or leaves because it does not seem as if Cadeau can figure out how to stay out of foul trouble or stop throwing the ball away out of poor decisions making and just being to casual.
If you run off Cadeau, not only will we fail to get a better starting PG out of the portal, but it will be nearly impossible to get a good backup PG. There are diminishing returns when you try to pull 2 recruits who play the same position out of the same class/portal. The reality is that pass first point guards are dependent on the talent around them. Last season Cadeau was the starting point guard on a #1 seed. This year Cadeau is the starting point guard on a mediocre team. The difference is literally one team had a Carolina frontcourt and one team does not. There isn't a point guard in America that is going to make this team a top seed with Washington, Lubin, Withers, and Claude as our front court.
Now let's talk about Trimble this season. Trimble is shooting worse from 3 than Cadeau. Trimble is shooting worse from 2 than Cadeau. Trimble's A/To ratio is basically 1:1. Cadeau's A/To ratio is basically 2:1 even with all of the passes our bigs have fumbled. Trimble currently averages 2 points more per game than Cadeau on worse FG efficiency. Where Trimble excels is on ball defense and rebounding. Unfortunately due to his height his impact is somewhat lessened defending taller guards/wings when it comes to impacting their jumpshots (we saw that in the Stanford game.) Trimble, like his brother before him, has a nasty habit of constantly trying to avoid contact at the rim and missing acrobatic layups as a result. He's also an extremely unreliable shooter (27% from 3 this season) which is a big problem for an off guard/wing. In essence Trimble is a man without a position who excels at a couple things (on ball defense and rebounding) and who puts up solid scoring numbers on subpar shooting splits. This is not the profile of a player that a GM should prioritize when evaluating how to spend NIL money. He's basically a glue guy probably better suited for a 6th man role.
Now let's talk about Trimble this season. Trimble is shooting worse from 3 than Cadeau. Trimble is shooting worse from 2 than Cadeau. Trimble's A/To ratio is basically 1:1. Cadeau's A/To ratio is basically 2:1 even with all of the passes our bigs have fumbled. Trimble currently averages 2 points more per game than Cadeau on worse FG efficiency. Where Trimble excels is on ball defense and rebounding. Unfortunately due to his height his impact is somewhat lessened defending taller guards/wings when it comes to impacting their jumpshots (we saw that in the Stanford game.) Trimble, like his brother before him, has a nasty habit of constantly trying to avoid contact at the rim and missing acrobatic layups as a result. He's also an extremely unreliable shooter (27% from 3 this season) which is a big problem for an off guard/wing. In essence Trimble is a man without a position who excels at a couple things (on ball defense and rebounding) and who puts up solid scoring numbers on subpar shooting splits. This is not the profile of a player that a GM should prioritize when evaluating how to spend NIL money. He's basically a glue guy probably better suited for a 6th man role.
Yea how did that work out for JP….Tell you this if Seth wants to earn money playing basketball he better stay in college as long as he can…..
With that said it’s no way you can enter next year with your starting 2 guard being Seth Trimble….
Like I said this roster will have to be totally rebuilt….Next season could be really bad…
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