So who's still not panicking?
- Thread starter HeelFan58
- Start date
Making negative comments (please point out the one I made that is not true) does not in any way , form or fashion denote throwing in the towel as a fan. I guess you cheerleaders don't think Roy says some of these same remarks to the team or do you think he just says we will be fine? I can imagine some of you have a real issue during your job performance reviews..
No panic here. It's a game played by young men whom for the most part will become just like you and me in a few years. Worker bees! A select few will get to continue to "entertain" us for a brief time, and get rich doing it. Make no mistake about it, it is entertainment. Whether or not my favorite team(Heels, Packers, Reds) win or lose only effects my life while I'm watching them play. I still get up the next day and put my pants on and go to work, workout, love on my wife, kids and grandkids. The "real world" is all I panic about.
Not dissing the OP, I just don't feel life in long enough to stress over anything beyond my control.
Not dissing the OP, I just don't feel life in long enough to stress over anything beyond my control.
You don't want to be painted with a broad brush but turn right around and do the same thing to those who are just enjoying the game of basketball for what it is, and watching these young men develop, calling people sunshine boys and cheerleaders.
Nobody's saying everybody has to have the same opinion, but we could certainly have these discussions without all the exaggeration and invectives, and blowing everything out of proportion.
It's a long season, there will be ups and downs. Boston College played maybe their best game of the season and UNC, well let's just say they didn't. Carolina still found a way to win the game, maybe not the prettiest but still counts in the win column. I would much rather be going thru a lull right now than a month from now. Also the reason I didn't get too worried about Marcus Paige. He's too good of a shooter to continue to shoot they way he was, he will (or already) come out of it, as will the team. Sure there are some warning signs, but plenty of time to play to their potential as well.
I'm not sure if I'd say I'm panicking. Are my expectations lower than they were two weeks ago? Yes. Will I still watch the remainder of the season even though they're struggling? Yes.
I don't buy into the whole "any win in a road game in the ACC is hard fought and a good win" argument. BC was 0-10 in ACC play entering the game last night, now 0-11. They very well could go winless in conference this year - this was the closest to winning they've come in conference play, and it was only the 2nd conference game that they didn't lose by double digits. That would have been an embarrassment for the team if they had lost that game.
I've realized that in order for this team to make the final four, and even win the whole thing - a lot of things need to happen. Our stars need to all play like stars at the same time, and our rotation needs to be drastically shortened. Kenny, Nate, Luke, and JoelJ.... I love all of them, but the 4 of them shouldn't combine for more than 20 minutes in a game for the rest of the season (and most of those should be Nate's minutes), and for the most part they shouldn't be on the floor at the same time. The better players need to be on the court as much as possible, whether that means they need to stay out of foul trouble, or Roy needs to stop with his funky lineups.
I don't buy into the whole "any win in a road game in the ACC is hard fought and a good win" argument. BC was 0-10 in ACC play entering the game last night, now 0-11. They very well could go winless in conference this year - this was the closest to winning they've come in conference play, and it was only the 2nd conference game that they didn't lose by double digits. That would have been an embarrassment for the team if they had lost that game.
I've realized that in order for this team to make the final four, and even win the whole thing - a lot of things need to happen. Our stars need to all play like stars at the same time, and our rotation needs to be drastically shortened. Kenny, Nate, Luke, and JoelJ.... I love all of them, but the 4 of them shouldn't combine for more than 20 minutes in a game for the rest of the season (and most of those should be Nate's minutes), and for the most part they shouldn't be on the floor at the same time. The better players need to be on the court as much as possible, whether that means they need to stay out of foul trouble, or Roy needs to stop with his funky lineups.
Let me reiterate "panic" is an exaggeration for effect OK. Did I panic over a college basketball game? Hell no! Only if I had money riding on it and I didn't and never do. Am I frustrated and concerned over the rest of the season especially the 2 games with dook and the one left with moo ...hell yes.
Thanks key but you know me, I just call it as I see it, good bad or indifferent.
Your point is well made, UNC fans, maybe just cause I am one and more sensitive toward it, are the most hypercritical, hyper sensitive bunch I could ever see. I swear, we win our first 8 ACC games for the first time in forever but we drop 2 hard road games and all the sudden the wheels fly off the fan base, and even this thread talks about panic in the fan base?
What I don't think so many see is first how hard it is to play 3 jump on a jet and fly away games in a row at this point in the season. I have been watching UNC basketball for a more than a few years and we go thru this at some point every season, it may not be a loss but we play closer games than we expect. So this is not new, our title teams have had their dip points as well but just as things dip they also come back strong every season as well unless injury hits.
The other thing is, I never see this discussed and it should be is just how small the difference is in teams in good conferences. It is the little things that add up to 30pt blow outs. You take those kids at BC, realize, every one of those fellas was a star in high school, they are not a D-2 program they are an ACC program where the best college basketball in the country is played EVERY SEASON. Md was a celler dweller to mid pack program in the ACC and they enter the Big 10 and are top of the pack, should tell you something about how good teams and individual players have to play to win in the ACC.
Even a considered bad team in the ACC is still a pretty darn good team capable of beating any team in the country on any given night as last night clearly shows. I think fans prefer at times to blame their own team when actually giving the other team credit they deserve for giving their all is more warrented. The other team really wants to win and at times needs the win more than our team may. Will NEVER forget a not great FSU team DRILLING us a few years back in Tallahassie, they just wore us out beat us by 30 and it wasn't even that close, our team did pretty darn good that season as I recall...
Gotta fact check you a bit here. The 1998 team lost to Utah and that team was arguably one of the greatest we ever had. They steamrolled to the ACC title and balled out until we played Utah in the national semi-final, including beating good Mich State and UConn teams on Sweet 16 weekend to get to the final four. Perhaps you were thinking about the 2000 team that lost to Wake in our first game in the ACC title and then went on to lose to Florida in the Final Four.
You are 100% right. Those comments are over the top. Facts are UNC hasn't really beaten anyone this year besides Maryland and Clemson at home. They have lost of a bunch of average teams, no one great. They got beat last night (not on the scoreboard, but the better team did not win last night) by a team that is dead last in the ACC and has no business being within 20 points of UNC. Maybe they turn things around, but the pattern is if they face anyone half decent in the tournament, they are going to lose. I 100% hope I am wrong, 100%. We shall see. All this happening just as they get ready to face duke down the stretch, great timing.
no worries. I agree that they are struggling right now, and I hope they get it turned around too. The potential of losing at home to Dook does bug me a lot, too. Hard to envision them being down or flat for that game, though.
Maybe splitting hairs, but they have beaten KSU, UCLA, Syracuse.... all good (not great) teams. KSU just housed OU, UCLA has beaten Kentucky, Syracuse has beaten a lot of good ACC teams since JB came back.
And, we WERE killing inferior teams by 20+ early in the year. Including ACC. Just have to get "that" play back. I think it can happen. No argument about them struggling now, though. Hoping getting back home after a tough travel schedule helps.
As someone else said..... the other kids on other teams are good players, and they always give us their best shot. They are amped for the upset, and the court storm of beating UNC. Other games don't seem to matter as much to them (I get that Dook faces the same challenges as us in this regard).
No panic. We are just about to start our ascension. You want to peak in March, not February. There was bound to be a rough stretch, and 3 straight road games was a likely spot for what you are seeing. We have one more tough road stretch on the back end of the schedule that could be similar.
I still say it boils down to a few things. Paige's slump shook his confidence and caused a lack of flow to our offense with him passing up shots and driving lanes. Kennedy's return also caused us to get out of sync after really humming for a few weeks when he was out--reorganizing the bigs' rotation.
The last thing I think is boredom. It was becoming easy. When things get easy there is a lack of attention to detail--defensive rotations, boxing out EVERY time, and moving the ball within the offense crisply. I think those things hurt us the last 4-5 games, but were only exposed when playing teams that are good enough to take advantage.
Now that they reared their heads against inferior competition, I think you will see a refocus. I think you started to see it the last 10 minutes against BC, where the guys started hustling, being active on D, and rebounding like they wanted it. Pitt on Sunday will allow us to take another step forward and tune up prior to the big game Wednesday night.
Keep the faith.
I still say it boils down to a few things. Paige's slump shook his confidence and caused a lack of flow to our offense with him passing up shots and driving lanes. Kennedy's return also caused us to get out of sync after really humming for a few weeks when he was out--reorganizing the bigs' rotation.
The last thing I think is boredom. It was becoming easy. When things get easy there is a lack of attention to detail--defensive rotations, boxing out EVERY time, and moving the ball within the offense crisply. I think those things hurt us the last 4-5 games, but were only exposed when playing teams that are good enough to take advantage.
Now that they reared their heads against inferior competition, I think you will see a refocus. I think you started to see it the last 10 minutes against BC, where the guys started hustling, being active on D, and rebounding like they wanted it. Pitt on Sunday will allow us to take another step forward and tune up prior to the big game Wednesday night.
Keep the faith.
Just enjoying the ride and wishing I could have been lucky and skilled enough in my younger days to have represented the University of North Carolina on the court. Panic no, just thankful I can still watch and cheer on my favorite team like I have for the last 50 plus years...
Please put down the shovel before you dig a hole so deep you lose all credibility. We got your point a long time ago.
I think this team is ready for the tournament to start, (although they don't look ready at all)...they've played a bunch of games together over the last couple years and hate to say it, get bored out there sometimes, as bad as that sounds..Seems like a 'let's play a game that matters' attitude..sucks but that's what Roys been fighting all year..just need to get the 1-2 seed in Raleigh and let it fly..
If they have that attitude, it's definitely misguided. Not many teams can just turn it on when they feel like it, 2009 notwithstanding. The next 3 games will tell us a lot. If they can't play with a fire in their belly versus Miami and dook, then I don't know what to say about this team.
They need to quit playing defense scared. They are so worried about fouling that they are playing weak defense. The team is deep enough to play with foul trouble. I would rather see tough defense and foul trouble than weak defense and nobody with over 3 fouls. Need to get the aggressive again. Go for steals. Go for blocks. Quit trying to slide in and get the charge call. The offense is generated from the defense. We need to forget the officials and just play with abandon.
Playing tentatively to avoid fouls sometimes leads to even more being called on you. If you jerk your arm back or turn to look at the official, he's going to assume you're guilty.
shane, I will ask you or anyone else that reads this but allow me to pick on your post. yeah, BC played their best game of the season vs us, many would say Lville and ND did as well. pretty sure Texas fans saw their game vs us as their best of the season, team after team seem to have their best game of the season when they play us.
Now yeah, we are a big fish and of course every team in the nation wants to beat us, they want to beat duke, Ky, and kansas to. But lets put aside for the moment this notion of our being big fish that everyone is inspired to beat and my question becomes what other reasons do you see for teams having their best game of the season when they play us?
I think that is a great discussion topic for us to engage in. Don't be shy gary, you know I want you to jump in to this one to! LOL I actually discussed some of why on a thread I just posted on, you can see some of my thought on why there. But here is a single word that explains a lot of what I see, ATTACK...
Really? Name them then. How many is plenty? 5, 10? I can't think of any. Granted ours don't always play like they are the best 8, but I can't think of any better.
I always think you are in better position if the other team has to react to what you are doing to them. ATTACKING off makes and misses; playing multiple defenses and even changing how different plays are defended (High ball screen for example). All of that doesn't allow the other team to get comfortable against you. They have to think first, that is how you gain advantage.
I guess the counter to that is I am going to do a few things and do those few things with highest level of execution. Oh and when I have superior talent to go with that philosophy; it doesn't matter what you try do, we win "almost" every time--- (key word almost).
I've been a HEELS fan since Phil's freshman year- chalk me up a big fan of multiple offenses and defenses!
I guess the counter to that is I am going to do a few things and do those few things with highest level of execution. Oh and when I have superior talent to go with that philosophy; it doesn't matter what you try do, we win "almost" every time--- (key word almost).
I've been a HEELS fan since Phil's freshman year- chalk me up a big fan of multiple offenses and defenses!
I don't know that I agree that Notre Dame or Texas fans feel they played their best game against us. Notre Dame shot in the 35% from the field and only made 3 three pointers. I think I saw during the game that they led the league in 3 point fg made per game. I believe that they put up almost 100 in Cameron just a few days (or maybe a week) before. I don't want to turn this in to a referee bashing, but you're not going to win too many conference games when you shoot 17 fewer free throws than your opponent. Texas, on the road, took Oklahoma down to the wire and has been playing much better over the past month. Now Louisville, maybe I would agree on that one. But that isn't an easy place to win, and it was a one possession game, late in the game. Teams are going to suffer losses, that's not one that's hard to stomach.
Is Carolina playing their best right now? I don't think anyone would argue that they are, but the point of my post was that to let this play out a little. There are ups and downs in every season and hopefully this is the down cycle. Beat Pitt at home this week and I think things are looking up again. Lose that one and I don't want to think about the Duke game and what would happen if that turns in to a loss.........
Maryland, please. Who have they beat? Iowa and Purdue? Both at home. You could criticize and poke holes in every team. There just isn't a dominant team, including UNC. But UNC is one of the top contenders to be sure.
OK, for pete's sake lets remove the ND game from the question, FYI, when we played Texas they had a healthy Ridley and he has been hurt most of the season.
But the question was why do so many teams have the best game they have played in a season against us? It is more than the fact we are a big fish, it is more related to what we do or what we do not. That is what I want to see folks consider not did ND have the best game of their season against us..
I don't panic as I don't take any of my teams that seriously. On the flip side, I am on record as saying we get beat the first weekend of the NCAA. If we get matched up with a pretty good 6 or 7 seed in the 2nd round, we will be in trouble.
This team is what it is. Not tough, and the talent is overrated. Any decent shooting team can beat us. We don't have the shooters to keep up nor the defensive heart to shut other teams down.
This team is what it is. Not tough, and the talent is overrated. Any decent shooting team can beat us. We don't have the shooters to keep up nor the defensive heart to shut other teams down.
I'm fairly down on this team right now, and have tempered my expectations for them recently. But I also love free money - so if you're willing to put a wager on that, I'm sure we could arrange something via paypal/venmo
Count me in on that free money action, too. And I don't even bet but would make an exception if UPH is donating.
To each his own... but this Heels team at end of last year was ranked #12 in final ranking and hung right with both teams that were in the championship game. You could argue they should've been ranked higher. .
They are a year more mature, more intelligent, and basically didn't lose anyone. And nobody this year is as good as the top 4-5 teams last year.
I'd say right now OK looks better than UNC, and maybe KU if they were playing in Phog... but beyond that, the Heels have the TALENT, leadership, etc to beat anyone.
They had the talent to beat Maryland this year. We can't discount that as a fluke. Would they have beaten MD over the last two weeks, on a neutral site? Probably not. But its not because they don't have the talent to beat them, or the heart and intensity to beat them. They've already proven they do have both those things. Remember Maryland played great in that game where we beat them.
I don't mean to hang everything on that one game - point is if the Heels get back to playing right, they have the talent, leadership and drive to beat anyone. Why should we assume that they can't get their momentum back? And to say somehow they squandered away the talent / skills they had last year and early this year, is just crazy IMO.
In the Heels, its not like we're talking about a team playing uphill, with inferior talent and depth, like believing, say, Northwestern can step up and beat Maryland, or GT or Wake could step up and beat UNC or UVA.
Could UNC lose in 1st or 2nd round? Sure. I think one year they lost in first round as a 3 seed. Upsets can always happen. But if they get a 1 or 2 seed they will be playing basically at home for first two rounds.
I like their chances to advance at least as far as last year. They are a better team this year, playing against an inferior field overall.
In an effort to prove you wrong, I ran some numbers just to make myself feel better. I took each teams you named plus Oklahoma as your etc.... I added the averages of points, rebounds, assists, steals and subtracted turnovers to get a final number. Then added all eight together to get a final team top eight. I think you will be amazed, I wsn't but assume you will be.
UNC: Brice- 27.4, Marcus-19.4, JB II-19.3, Justin-18.4, Meeks-17.8, Hicks-14.4, Theo-10.9 and Britt-9.8 for a total of 137.4
Next best was--
Oklahoma: Hield-32.1, Cousins-22.3, Spangler-21.5, Woodard-20.1, Lattin-12.7, Walker-6.0, Buford-4.6, and Manyang-4.6 for a total of 123.9
Then:
Villanova: Hart-24.3, Arcidiacone-18.6, Ochefu-18.5, Jenkins-16.7, Brunson-14.1, Bridges-11.6, Booth-10.7 and Reynolds-8.2 for a total of 122.7
UK: Ulis-25.4, Murray-24.3, Briscoe-17.5, Poytheiss-16.4, Lee-12.2, Willis-11.8, Labissiere-9.4, and Hawkins-3.7 for a total of 120.7
Louisville: Lee-22.5, Onuaku-18.2, Lewis-17.2, Snider-15.2, Mitchell-13.4, Mathiang-11.8, Spalding-10.9, and Johnson-9.3 for a total of 118.5
Kansas: Ellis-23.7, Mason-21.8, Selden-19.2, Graham-17.6, Lucus-9.8, Greene-9.1, Mykhailuk-7.5, and Bragg-7.2 for a total of 115.9
Maryland: Trimble-21.4, Carter-20.5, Stone-17.8, Suliman-17.2, Layman-16.5, Nickens-8.1, Dodd-5.4, and Cekovsky-4.8 for a total of 111.7
Virginia: Brogdon-24.2, Gill-20.2, Perrantes-17.9, Tobey-11.2, Wilkins-10.2, Thompson-8.7, Hall-8.4, and Shayok-6.2 for a total of 107.00
So by my reckoning, our top eight are far better than anyone else's. It's not even close.
Not saying they aren't. Nor am I saying they are not a solid team. They are. Dominant? Nope.
