Sometimes, the fool is the only person allowed to tell the truth...

[NoleSoup4U]

I’m aware of that. But those corporations didn’t actually start in bermuda. They shifted their wealth to tax havens as they opened up.

Yeah, and your point is?

Of course, it's illegal to do that now, so instead corporations are buying up foreign firms in places like Ireland and essentially doing the same thing. The government is trying to close that loophole, but as soon as they do the companies will just find another law to exploit. All the corporate tax rate is doing is keeping firms from investing more in this country. Like I said before, lower the corporate tax rate and raise personal taxes on rich people.

 

[tarheel0910]

Corporations don't pay taxes, their customers pay them.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

As I said, Trump is ideal for the thrill of pissing-people-off. That's it. Lap it up. That's his contribution.

Well, that was my thoughts as well, initially. However, I've recently been alerted that he's actually not pissing people off at all. Even some of his most hardcore opponents on this board have admitted that they are laughing at him now too! When's the last time a president has brought the whole country together to chuckle about inconsequential things like rakes and whatever the hell covfefe is? Him uniting the country is even better than pissing people off, and exactly what we needed.

4 more years! 4 more years! 4 more years!

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Covfefe, one of life's greatest mysteries!

 

[prlyles]

I agree. It will come back around. Just like Obama's kowtowing to minority groups has "come back around" and you see what we have now because of it.

No I don't, please explain "what we have now".

 

[uncboy10]

Yeah, and your point is?

Of course, it's illegal to do that now, so instead corporations are buying up foreign firms in places like Ireland and essentially doing the same thing. The government is trying to close that loophole, but as soon as they do the companies will just find another law to exploit. All the corporate tax rate is doing is keeping firms from investing more in this country. Like I said before, lower the corporate tax rate and raise personal taxes on rich people.

Then rich people will simply store their assets in the balance sheets of shell corporations instead of taking the personal income. The corporate tax rate won’t prevent people from investing here if the loopholes are closed. There’s to much money to be made in our economy. But as long as corporate lawyers write tax bills like the one that trump signed, they will continue to exploit the economy.

 

[uncboy10]

Corporations don't pay taxes, their customers pay them.

That’s only true if they’re able to pass on the taxes in the form of higher prices. But adequate competition should prevent them from being able to raise prices. The big problem with that is anti-trust laws are being eroded, or just aren’t being enforced. So they just collude and raise prices together, or buy out the competition and establish enough market power to set prices in the market.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Then rich people will simply store their assets in the balance sheets of shell corporations instead of taking the personal income. The corporate tax rate won’t prevent people from investing here if the loopholes are closed. There’s to much money to be made in our economy. But as long as corporate lawyers write tax bills like the one that trump signed, they will continue to exploit the economy.

That isn't necessarily true. Many corporations would rather take out a loan and write off the interest, or just not invest at all. If you're so concerned about people stashing money in shell corporations then just have a flat excise tax and be done with it. You buy a car, you pay tax on the car. You buy a building, you pay tax on the building.

 

[tarheel0910]

That’s only true if they’re able to pass on the taxes in the form of higher prices. But adequate competition should prevent them from being able to raise prices. The big problem with that is anti-trust laws are being eroded, or just aren’t being enforced. So they just collude and raise prices together, or buy out the competition and establish enough market power to set prices in the market.

You raise taxes on corporations and the price is going to go up. They are going to keep their profit margins for the shareholders.

 

[uncboy10]

You raise taxes on corporations and the price is going to go up. They are going to keep their profit margins for the shareholders.

I agree that’s what they want to do.

But they can’t if there is adequate competition. In a competitive market they will lose sales if they raise their prices.

At some point those margins are going to have to drop, if we want a balanced economy. They’re artificially inflated by wage stagnation.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

But they can’t if there is adequate competition. In a competitive market they will lose sales if they raise their prices.

If all the companies in a given market are getting taxes raised, what's preventing them from all raising prices, and that rise in taxes being effectively paid for by the consumer?

 

[uncboy10]

If all the companies in a given market are getting taxes raised, what's preventing them from all raising prices, and that rise in taxes being effectively paid for by the consumer?

Another firm being willing to take lower profits in order to capture the sales.

That’s why I made the point about anti-trust laws. Right now many major markets are monopolized to some degree, which allows a few firms to collude and all raise their prices like you are suggesting they would.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Another firm being willing to take lower profits in order to capture the sales.

That’s why I made the point about anti-trust laws. Right now many major markets are monopolized to some degree, which allows a few firms to collude and all raise their prices like you are suggesting they would.

Like government sponsored utilities?

 

[uncboy10]

Like government sponsored utilities?

If the government was interested in capturing profits then sure. But that’s ecactly the point. The barriers to entry in those markets are extremely high, so they aren’t competitive markets to begin with.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Extremely high doesn't mean impossible. What the government has done is make many of those barriers impossible to overcome.

 

[prlyles]

Extremely high doesn't mean impossible. What the government has done is make many of those barriers impossible to overcome.

Example....

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Example....

Public utilities.

 

[prlyles]

Public utilities.

How else would you propose the country’s utilities be run?

 

[Terror Beard]

No I don't, please explain "what we have now".

A crazy man in the White House.

He was elected because so many people felt that the way the country was going - refusal to harshly address radical Islam, having BLM to dinner at the White House, weak support of law enforcement, illegal immigrants slaughtering innocent people, Caitlyn Jenner winning courage awards, bakers being run out of business by angry liberals because they don’t support gay marriage - that they wanted someone who would say and do what they themselves would say and do if they were President. Of course most know that the President isn’t responsible for a lot of the things I named above. But people don’t care because they were so sick of it all.

So strum’s right, all that shit is “coming back around”. I imagine when Trump is gone, it will “come back around again.” Like he said, balance is natural.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

How else would you propose the country’s utilities be run?

With more competition.

 

[uncboy10]

Extremely high doesn't mean impossible. What the government has done is make many of those barriers impossible to overcome.

Yeah sure. Let’s have private corporations build competing power and water lines, because that is totally efficient...

We’ve already seen the shortcomings of private companies running utilities. Poor communities still can’t even get internet access because the service providers won’t even bother with putting down the lines.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Yeah sure. Let’s have private corporations build competing power and water lines, because that is totally efficient...

We’ve already seen the shortcomings of private companies running utilities. Poor communities still can’t even get internet access because the service providers won’t even bother with putting down the lines.

Would you put down the money if the people couldn't afford the service? Me neither.

Besides, that's an argument for more competition.

 

[uncboy10]

Would you put down the money if the people couldn't afford the service? Me neither.

Besides, that's an argument for more competition.

No it isn’t. It’s an argument for public utilities. I will gladly pay my taxes to contribute

 

[NoleSoup4U]

No it isn’t. It’s an argument for public utilities. I will gladly pay my taxes to contribute

So, before I'm allowed to feed my family I have to make sure that people have internet? Hard pass.

 

[uncboy10]

So, before I'm allowed to feed my family I have to make sure that people have internet? Hard pass.

Yeah that’s exactly how taxes work. Lolol

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Yeah that’s exactly how taxes work. Lolol

You know how income tax and inflation work, right? That money is taken before you ever see a dime. It's why Hayek properly compared the Income Tax to serfdom.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Another firm being willing to take lower profits in order to capture the sales.

That’s why I made the point about anti-trust laws. Right now many major markets are monopolized to some degree, which allows a few firms to collude and all raise their prices like you are suggesting they would.

What’s preventing those other companies from entering the market now then?

Say net margins for a particular industry are 20%, and you’re proposing increasing taxes on those companies to bring the margins down to 15%. I’m saying those companies could increase prices and put the increased tax burden back on their customers to get their margins back to 20%. You’re saying a company would swoop in happy to take the lower margin... but if that company isn’t swooping in to undercut the 20% margins now, why would they then?

 

[uncboy10]

What’s preventing those other companies from entering the market now then?

Say net margins for a particular industry are 20%, and you’re proposing increasing taxes on those companies to bring the margins down to 15%. I’m saying those companies could increase prices and put the increased tax burden back on their customers to get their margins back to 20%. You’re saying a company would swoop in happy to take the lower margin... but if that company isn’t swooping in to undercut the 20% margins now, why would they then?

All else being equal, it’s the raising prices that would open up the possibility of capturing the profits. As it currently stands, the barriers to entry or competitive nature of the market doesn’t allow them to do so at a competitive price. But if they can’t beat the price after its raised then they will.

The real problem is that most markets aren’t actually competitive at the moment. More and more of our economy is becoming monopolized by the day. It’s hard for mom and pop to compete with Walmart regardless of the tax rate

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

All else being equal, it’s the raising prices that would open up the possibility of capturing the profits. As it currently stands, the barriers to entry or competitive nature of the market doesn’t allow them to do so at a competitive price. But if they can’t beat the price after its raised then they will.

The real problem is that most markets aren’t actually competitive at the moment. More and more of our economy is becoming monopolized by the day. It’s hard for mom and pop to compete with Walmart regardless of the tax rate

Exactly, as they stand now, the barriers are too great for a newcomer to overcome. So increasing the tax rate as you suggest would end up back on the consumers.

 

[uncboy10]

Exactly, as they stand now, the barriers are too great for a newcomer to overcome. So increasing the tax rate as you suggest would end up back on the consumers.

I agree. But in a world with strong anti trust laws that shouldn’t be the case. Cutting the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21% isn’t going to help mom and pop. It’s going to make the rich richer. And that gives them money to make sure those barriers stay up, and maybe even get a little taller.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I agree. But in a world with strong anti trust laws that shouldn’t be the case. Cutting the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21% isn’t going to help mom and pop. It’s going to make the rich richer. And that gives them money to make sure those barriers stay up, and maybe even get a little taller.

How is that? Larger corporations have the ability to reach the economies of scale much easier than a mom and pop business. They can refine their supply chain and therefore absorb the increase in taxes much better.

 

[uncboy10]

How is that? Larger corporations have the ability to reach the economies of scale much easier than a mom and pop business. They can refine their supply chain and therefore absorb the increase in taxes much better.

Mom and pop shouldn’t be paying the same tax rate as Walmart. I don’t believe in flat taxes. Simple is easy, but it isn’t equitable or efficient.

Yes they can absorb taxes more easily. Which is why they should pay a higher rate, especially if they produce negative externalities in their large scale supply chain.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Mom and pop shouldn’t be paying the same tax rate as Walmart. I don’t believe in flat taxes. Simple is easy, but it isn’t equitable or efficient.

Yes they can absorb taxes more easily. Which is why they should pay a higher rate, especially if they produce negative externalities in their large scale supply chain.

I agree that they should be responsible for their negative externalities, but I don't agree with having a progressive corporate tax.

 

[uncboy10]

I agree that they should be responsible for their negative externalities, but I don't agree with having a progressive corporate tax.

I figured you wouldn’t. Guess we’ll have to fight to the death.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I figured you wouldn’t. Guess we’ll have to fight to the death.

 

[heelbent]

The man...the legend...the President of the United States of America on his winning streak.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

The man...the legend...the President of the United States of America on his winning streak.

View embedded media

He kinda looked like a WWE guy parading around the ring with a belt in the beginning there.

I wanna see him come out Conner McGregor walking one time

 

[nctransplant]

He kinda looked like a WWE guy parading around the ring with a belt in the beginning there.

I wanna see him come out Conner McGregor walking one time

With a Ric Flair robe on too! Woooooooooooo

 

[Terror Beard]

He kinda looked like a WWE guy parading around the ring with a belt in the beginning there.

I wanna see him come out Conner McGregor walking one time

Can you smell what the Trump is cooking?

 

[Terror Beard]

With a Ric Flair robe on too! Woooooooooooo

Trump is a limousine riding, jet plane flying, alligator shoe wearin', kiss stealin', wheelin' and dealin' son of a gun.