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Stats and stuff (Arky game - NCAAT)...

gary-7

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... and I'm tempted to say "whew", but what I really feel like saying wouldn't be fit for the board.

The bad
- Welp, the 3 striped bozos today were in full amateur mode --- the kind of reffing you expect to see in a Jr High Girls' game, and you know what I'm talking about if you've ever witnessed it --- uncalled tackle football inside and invented calls outside. The sort of stuff that plays right into Arky's hands. We played through it in the first half but the second half was just ugly... and we did not react well when the fouling got even more intense. If you've ever watched an Arky game --- especially when they're behind --- Anderson is gonna have his guys fouling everything that moves and dare the zebras to keep up. Often they don't (the fact we didn't see the bonus til after the under-4 would attest).

- We aided and abetted the mayhem with some SLOPPY passing and ball-handling --- we're talking about just fumbling simple passes :eek:.Theo and JJ got a case of stone-hands for a while. You just can't do that against Arky.

- Then, as if that wasn't enough, when we would get things together we missed wide-open shot after wide-open shot. Sheesh. We shot a miserable 38% from the field, and frankly I'm surprised the number was that good.

- JB is a tough nut, but he was not close to 100% today. I watched him off the ball, and he was favoring that ankle, especially in the second half. I was afraid it might tighten up with that long NCAA halftime and you could pretty clearly see it did. It was slowing his cuts on both ends and also affecting his explosion.

The good
- Speaking of Berry though, I'm gonna give him a warrior's shout-out for playing through the ankle. When push came to shove (sometimes literally) he picked his spots and dug in and caused 2 key Arky TOs late and refused to let his man have a clean look.

- Our Bigs --- Kennedy in particular --- were grown-ass men amid the mayhem in the trenches. Arky ain't small and they're sure as hell tough but we out-rebounded them 45-32, incl 18-8 on the Offensive Glass! Also, kudos to Buckets for stickin' his nose into the fray and coming out with 8 Boards.

- Speaking of Meeks, he made what I consider the play of the game. Up 1 after clawing back to take the lead, JB drives (with 2 flaming uncalled grabs on the way in) and is forced to throw up a desperation shot and KM hits the offenive glass and volleys it in for a 3-pt lead. Humongous play.

Keys
-Transition. This was a tale of two halves. We scored 6 Fast Break, and get this, 24 Secondary Break pts in the first half alone. We only managed 5 off the Secondary in the second half, largely for all the aforementioned reasons.

- FTs: I swear it seemed like we missed more than we did --- somehow we managed 76% --- but I guess it's who is missing. Dadgum it, JB. You were automatic most of the season. We need that again. Kudos to Hicks for bigtime makes in cruch-time though!

- JB: Considering that ankle, Dog was aggresive the way we need him to be, and found a way to be nasty on D. And Lord knows the deep sh** we're in any time he's off the floor. I'll say it again --- time for more Stilman and less 7th.

- Defensive intensity: Folks, THIS is what won the game today. We just solid locked-ass down on defense down the stretch. It was the key to finishing on a 12-0 run (that looked way too ugly to be called a "run"). It was grinding, in-your-face dog-ass D.

Well... connsidering how badly we responded for much of the second half, credit to the guys for digging in late and overcoming adversity! The best thing we can see now is several days for JB to get well... and make this one a lesson going forward. Ok, I'll say it now --- Whew! :oops:
 
Last edited:
... and I'm tempted to say "whew", but what I really feel like saying wouldn't be fit for the board.

The bad
- Welp, the 3 striped bozos today were in full amateur mode --- the kind of reffing you expect to see in a Jr High Girls' game, and you know what I'm talking about if you've ever witnessed it --- uncalled tackle football inside and invented calls outside. The sort of stuff that plays right into Arky's hands. We played through it in the first half but the second half was just ugly... and we did not react well when the fouling got even more intense. If you've ever watched an Arky game --- especially when they're behind --- Anderson is gonna have his guys fouling everything that moves and dare the zebras to keep up. Often they don't (the fact we didn't see the bonus til after the under-4 would attest).

- We aided and abetted the mayhem with some SLOPPY passing and ball-handling --- we're talking about just fumbling simple passes :eek:.Theo and JJ got a case of stone-hands for a while. You just can't do that against Arky.

- Then, as if that wasn't enough, when we would get things together we missed wide-open shot after wide-open shot. Sheesh. We shot a miserable 38% from the field, and frankly I'm surprised the number was that good.

- JB is a tough nut, but he was not close to 100% today. I watched him off the ball, and he was favoring that ankle, especially in the second half. I was afraid it might tighten up with that long NCAA halftime and you could pretty clearly see it did. It was slowing his cuts on both ends and also affecting his explosion.

The good
- Speaking of Berry though, I'm gonna give him a warrior's shout-out for playing through the ankle. When push came to shove (sometimes literally) he picked his spots and dug in and caused 2 key Arky TOs late and refused to let his man have a clean look.

- Our Bigs --- Kennedy in particular --- were grown-ass men amid the mayhem in the trenches. Arky ain't small and they're sure as hell tough but we out-rebounded them 45-32, incl 18-8 on the Offensive Glass! Also, kudos to Buckets for stickin' his nose into the fray and coming out with 8 Boards.

- Speaking of Meeks, he made what I consider the play of the game. Up 1 after clawing back to take the lead, JB drives (with 2 flaming uncalled grabs on the way in) and is forced to throw up a desperation shot and KM hits the offenive glass and volleys it in for a 3-pt lead. Humongous play.

Keys
-Transition. This was a tale of two halves. We scored 6 Fast Break, and get this, 24 Secondary Break pts in the first half alone. We only managed 5 off the Secondary in the second half, largely for all the aforementioned reasons.

- FTs: I swear it seemed like we missed more than we did --- somehow we managed 76% --- but I guess it's who is missing. Dadgum it, JB. You were automatic most of the season. We need that again. Kudos to Hicks for bigtime makes in cruch-time though!

- JB: Considering that ankle, Dog was aggresive the way we need him to be, and found a way to be nasty on D. And Lord knows the deep sh** we're in any time he's off the floor. I'll say it again --- time for more Stilman and less 7th.

- Defensive intensity: Folks, THIS is what won the game today. We just solid locked-ass down on defense down the stretch. It was the key to finishing on a 12-0 run (that looked way too ugly to be called a "run"). It was grinding, in-your-face dog-ass D.

Well... connsidering how badly we responded for much of the second half, credit to the guys for digging in late and overcoming adversity! The best thing we can see now is several days for JB to get well... and make this one a lesson going forward. Ok, I'll say it now --- Whew! :oops:
Great take and agree!
 
... and I'm tempted to say "whew", but what I really feel like saying wouldn't be fit for the board.

The bad
- Welp, the 3 striped bozos today were in full amateur mode --- the kind of reffing you expect to see in a Jr High Girls' game, and you know what I'm talking about if you've ever witnessed it --- uncalled tackle football inside and invented calls outside. The sort of stuff that plays right into Arky's hands. We played through it in the first half but the second half was just ugly... and we did not react well when the fouling got even more intense. If you've ever watched an Arky game --- especially when they're behind --- Anderson is gonna have his guys fouling everything that moves and dare the zebras to keep up. Often they don't (the fact we didn't see the bonus til after the under-4 would attest).

- We aided and abetted the mayhem with some SLOPPY passing and ball-handling --- we're talking about just fumbling simple passes :eek:.Theo and JJ got a case of stone-hands for a while. You just can't do that against Arky.

- Then, as if that wasn't enough, when we would get things together we missed wide-open shot after wide-open shot. Sheesh. We shot a miserable 38% from the field, and frankly I'm surprised the number was that good.

- JB is a tough nut, but he was not close to 100% today. I watched him off the ball, and he was favoring that ankle, especially in the second half. I was afraid it might tighten up with that long NCAA halftime and you could pretty clearly see it did. It was slowing his cuts on both ends and also affecting his explosion.

The good
- Speaking of Berry though, I'm gonna give him a warrior's shout-out for playing through the ankle. When push came to shove (sometimes literally) he picked his spots and dug in and caused 2 key Arky TOs late and refused to let his man have a clean look.

- Our Bigs --- Kennedy in particular --- were grown-ass men amid the mayhem in the trenches. Arky ain't small and they're sure as hell tough but we out-rebounded them 45-32, incl 18-8 on the Offensive Glass! Also, kudos to Buckets for stickin' his nose into the fray and coming out with 8 Boards.

- Speaking of Meeks, he made what I consider the play of the game. Up 1 after clawing back to take the lead, JB drives (with 2 flaming uncalled grabs on the way in) and is forced to throw up a desperation shot and KM hits the offenive glass and volleys it in for a 3-pt lead. Humongous play.

Keys
-Transition. This was a tale of two halves. We scored 6 Fast Break, and get this, 24 Secondary Break pts in the first half alone. We only managed 5 off the Secondary in the second half, largely for all the aforementioned reasons.

- FTs: I swear it seemed like we missed more than we did --- somehow we managed 76% --- but I guess it's who is missing. Dadgum it, JB. You were automatic most of the season. We need that again. Kudos to Hicks for bigtime makes in cruch-time though!

- JB: Considering that ankle, Dog was aggresive the way we need him to be, and found a way to be nasty on D. And Lord knows the deep sh** we're in any time he's off the floor. I'll say it again --- time for more Stilman and less 7th.

- Defensive intensity: Folks, THIS is what won the game today. We just solid locked-ass down on defense down the stretch. It was the key to finishing on a 12-0 run (that looked way too ugly to be called a "run"). It was grinding, in-your-face dog-ass D.

Well... connsidering how badly we responded for much of the second half, credit to the guys for digging in late and overcoming adversity! The best thing we can see now is several days for JB to get well... and make this one a lesson going forward. Ok, I'll say it now --- Whew! :oops:
Stats; 25-8 FTs in favor of UNC
ARK 20 fouls, UNC 10
Quit whining about the officials every game, you sound like a Duke fan!!
 
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Thanks Gary.
Shout out for 7th.... he played some good minutes to spell JB in the first half - the Heels actually held the lead when he was in and only started coughing it up after he subbed out!
Luke and Tony were very active on the glass and deserve a mention too.
With Joel hobbled it would have been nice to see a bit of Stillman.
 
... and I'm tempted to say "whew", but what I really feel like saying wouldn't be fit for the board.

The bad
- Welp, the 3 striped bozos today were in full amateur mode --- the kind of reffing you expect to see in a Jr High Girls' game, and you know what I'm talking about if you've ever witnessed it --- uncalled tackle football inside and invented calls outside. The sort of stuff that plays right into Arky's hands. We played through it in the first half but the second half was just ugly... and we did not react well when the fouling got even more intense. If you've ever watched an Arky game --- especially when they're behind --- Anderson is gonna have his guys fouling everything that moves and dare the zebras to keep up. Often they don't (the fact we didn't see the bonus til after the under-4 would attest).

- We aided and abetted the mayhem with some SLOPPY passing and ball-handling --- we're talking about just fumbling simple passes :eek:.Theo and JJ got a case of stone-hands for a while. You just can't do that against Arky.

- Then, as if that wasn't enough, when we would get things together we missed wide-open shot after wide-open shot. Sheesh. We shot a miserable 38% from the field, and frankly I'm surprised the number was that good.

- JB is a tough nut, but he was not close to 100% today. I watched him off the ball, and he was favoring that ankle, especially in the second half. I was afraid it might tighten up with that long NCAA halftime and you could pretty clearly see it did. It was slowing his cuts on both ends and also affecting his explosion.

The good
- Speaking of Berry though, I'm gonna give him a warrior's shout-out for playing through the ankle. When push came to shove (sometimes literally) he picked his spots and dug in and caused 2 key Arky TOs late and refused to let his man have a clean look.

- Our Bigs --- Kennedy in particular --- were grown-ass men amid the mayhem in the trenches. Arky ain't small and they're sure as hell tough but we out-rebounded them 45-32, incl 18-8 on the Offensive Glass! Also, kudos to Buckets for stickin' his nose into the fray and coming out with 8 Boards.

- Speaking of Meeks, he made what I consider the play of the game. Up 1 after clawing back to take the lead, JB drives (with 2 flaming uncalled grabs on the way in) and is forced to throw up a desperation shot and KM hits the offenive glass and volleys it in for a 3-pt lead. Humongous play.

Keys
-Transition. This was a tale of two halves. We scored 6 Fast Break, and get this, 24 Secondary Break pts in the first half alone. We only managed 5 off the Secondary in the second half, largely for all the aforementioned reasons.

- FTs: I swear it seemed like we missed more than we did --- somehow we managed 76% --- but I guess it's who is missing. Dadgum it, JB. You were automatic most of the season. We need that again. Kudos to Hicks for bigtime makes in cruch-time though!

- JB: Considering that ankle, Dog was aggresive the way we need him to be, and found a way to be nasty on D. And Lord knows the deep sh** we're in any time he's off the floor. I'll say it again --- time for more Stilman and less 7th.

- Defensive intensity: Folks, THIS is what won the game today. We just solid locked-ass down on defense down the stretch. It was the key to finishing on a 12-0 run (that looked way too ugly to be called a "run"). It was grinding, in-your-face dog-ass D.

Well... connsidering how badly we responded for much of the second half, credit to the guys for digging in late and overcoming adversity! The best thing we can see now is several days for JB to get well... and make this one a lesson going forward. Ok, I'll say it now --- Whew! :oops:




Lol, didn't they just call 3 fouls on UNC in the second half?
 
Lol, didn't they just call 3 fouls on UNC in the second half?

We absolutely could have been called for a few more. Sadly, 2 of those called on our guys were Ark. fouls that the Refs boned it on. We could have been called for maybe 4-5 more. Problem is, Arky could have been called for another 12-15. Arky is a Hockey League basketball team, and not NHL level either.
 
The Meeks tip in should not have happened. It was a defensive foul on the floor, a walk or a charge. Glad they let it go, but we got lucky.
Defensive foul. Joel only crashed into the second defender after being shoved. Looks like the refs couldn't work out who was at fault and just let the game go.
 
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Defensive foul. Joel only crashed into the second defender after being shoved. Looks like the refs couldn't work out who was at fault and just let the game go.
I agree with that assessment. Often officials anticipate calls which is absolutey incorrect. If you can't figure it out definitively in the moment, don't call anything.
 
Defensive foul. Joel only crashed into the second defender after being shoved. Looks like the refs couldn't work out who was at fault and just let the game go.
I think this is exactly what happened. Let's call a spade a spade, it was a very physical game, as was the SC/dook game. We knew coming in that both those teams play physical and the refs let both teams play the whole game, in that respect they were consistent. Arkansas could have been called for twice as many fouls as they were, had the game been called tightly.
 
Lol, didn't they just call 3 fouls on UNC in the second half?
What are you laughing about? In any normal game Arky is gonna get far more fouls called than UNC. It is simply endemic in the way they play. In fact the only redeeming quality of this bunch of zebras was that they were consistent enough in their badness that the ratio was at least in the ballpark. For example, ironically the fact we had fouls to give at the end helped enable the steal and dunk by JJ.

I never said they were giving us the dook double-standard treatment. I said they were just allowing unbridled mayhem, which plays into Arky's hands. Theo commented on that very fact after the game. And I also said that when they started fouling more and more --- which is again, the way they play --- we needed to play through it and for a large portion of the second half we didn't. But that doesn't change the fact that an NCAA game should not be called with a Jr High School whistle.
 
I think this is exactly what happened. Let's call a spade a spade, it was a very physical game, as was the SC/dook game. We knew coming in that both those teams play physical and the refs let both teams play the whole game, in that respect they were consistent. Arkansas could have been called for twice as many fouls as they were, had the game been called tightly.
There it is, Arch. As I just posted above, at least they were conistent enough in their badness that we didn't get a dook double standard. That Jr HS whistle put more pressure on us to play through it, and in the final 3:48 we finally did.
 
The Meeks tip in should not have happened. It was a defensive foul on the floor, a walk or a charge. Glad they let it go, but we got lucky.
Yes, glad Meeks got to tip it in, but there was no walk nor was there a charge. JB was fouled hard, not once but twice, before he threw it up. So in that regard I guess you could say we're "lucky" they made a no-call instead of a bad call.
 
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Ridiculous you are saying the referees helped them. They let them play aggressively on both ends consistently and most their bad calls benefited us egregiously.

i agree with you, but what do you expect on here nowadays?

it wasn't so egregious as it's been presented in this thread...arkansas is more physical, just as scarolina is...that league is more physical, period.

it's just a different philosophy, but certainly not one that would prevent carolina from being incredibly careless with the ball, and certainly not a philosophy that would benefit a more skilled team...arkansas had 10 steals and shot almost 40% from the arc...their "excessive fouling" didn't force carolina to look like it was their first tourney game in a decade.

you certainly can't whine about refs letting them play when the fan of the team that's "not getting an advantageous call" has 2/3 more chances at the line.
 
There is zero doubt that that should have been an and1. Look, the refs missed a bunch of calls. Just because it's the NCAAT, there's no reason to believe that officiating will improve significantly, even though these refs are supposedly being rewarded for their competence. To say they're the best of a generally incompetent group is not saying a lot.
 
there's no reason to believe that officiating will improve significantly, even though these refs are supposedly being rewarded for their competence. To say they're the best of a generally incompetent group is not saying a lot.
Refereeing in all sports is at an all time low. I guess maybe it's the speed of the games and the athletes. Baseball is the simplest sport it is either out/safe , fair/foul or Ball/strike but football and basketball they can just call nothing and let it go.
 
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There is zero doubt that that should have been an and1. Look, the refs missed a bunch of calls. Just because it's the NCAAT, there's no reason to believe that officiating will improve significantly, even though these refs are supposedly being rewarded for their competence. To say they're the best of a generally incompetent group is not saying a lot.
Yep. Tallest midget and stuff...

We had this discussion last night. I would love to track the refs I've seen in the tourney and see which ones make the "cut" to the next round. Last year I actually took note of a few of the good crews who stood out from the first two rounds, and literally one of those zebras made the elite 8. SMDH. Odds are some of the worst get rewarded again. If any of our crew from yesterday make it? Good grief.
 
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Yep. Tallest midget and stuff...

We had this discussion last night. I would love to track the refs I've seen in the tourney and see which ones make the "cut" to the next round. Last year I actually took note of a few of the good crews who stood out from the first two rounds, and literally one of those zebras made the elite 8. SMDH. Odds are some of the worst get rewarded again. If any of our crew from yesterday make it? Good grief.
I would imagine that who moves on is based more on seniority than performance , at least that was the way it was in HSFB and the booking agents had their pets.
 
There was a play in the first half when Luke had the ball. 2 guys converged on him- the first guy hit Luke across the face, the second guy raked both his arms, and the ball came loose and sent out of bounds. It was off Arky, so at least we retained possession, but the look on Luke's face was great, like "what the....?"
Like he said- constant mayhem knowing they won't call them all. It's just their style.
 
I would imagine that who moves on is based more on seniority than performance , at least that was the way it was in HSFB and the booking agents had their pets.
Well, there's supposed to be an evaluation sheet they use where they get graded on the opening round games. That being said, it's a head-scratcher how some have made it through in the past... and evaluations or no, as you said, I'd be surprised if there aren't some internal politics at work in the process.
 
I would imagine that who moves on is based more on seniority than performance , at least that was the way it was in HSFB and the booking agents had their pets.
The "party line" is that the head of officiating grades everyone and advances the best from each round.
 
There was a play in the first half when Luke had the ball. 2 guys converged on him- the first guy hit Luke across the face, the second guy raked both his arms, and the ball came loose and sent out of bounds. It was off Arky, so at least we retained possession, but the look on Luke's face was great, like "what the....?"
Like he said- constant mayhem knowing they won't call them all. It's just their style.

I posted almost exactly this same example in another thread earlier today. Luke got hammered front and back, including blow to the face, with no call. It was ridiculous. And Roy told him "Be strong with the ball", good advice given Arky's defensive strategy and fact that refs will never "call them all".
 
dook fan? Nah, I wouldn't want to step on your territory. What I posted was a description, and an accurate one. If that doesn't fit your sensibilities then please feel free to stay out of the thread.

Gary, it's real tiring that you won't admit when you're off on something. Saying this was one sided on the officiating is just wrong. The numbers prove it and anyone watching that game from a rational mind will also back that up. The called it the same way both sides.

I like these recaps outside of every single one of them blaming officials. It gives your recap from the Duke game (where you correctly said the officiating was horrible) less weight because you're ALWAYS complaining about it.

Just my two pennies here.

Survive and advance, survive and advance. 4 more games.
 
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Gary, it's real tiring that you won't admit when you're off on something. Saying this was one sided on the officiating is just wrong. The numbers prove it and anyone watching that game from a rational mind will also back that up. The called it the same way both sides.

I like these recaps outside of every single one of them blaming officials. It gives your recap from the Duke game (where you correctly said the officiating was horrible) less weight because you're ALWAYS complaining about it.

Just my two pennies here.

Survive and advance, survive and advance. 4 more games.
With all due respect, what's tiring is folks misreading. Let's get this clear. I did not say the officiating was one-sided. I said it was amateurish (it was) and called in a loose fashion that favors a hyper-physical team like Arky (again, it was). There is no 'blaming", given that we won, just a simple statement of fact about something that set the tone for the game (unfortuntely).

Instead of assuming things and reading things into my post, it would be more instructive to take the entire context. Yes, the last dook game was horribly officiated in a decidedly one-sided manner. This Arky game was reffed by some guys who were in over their heads, with the ONLY redeeming quality (which I also acknowledged ITT) being that they at least were (as you said) CONSISTENTLY bad. So I was not "off" on a danged thing.

Moreover, as I've had to restate ad nauseum, I'm going to mention the officials regularly because how a game is called is every bit as important as shooting, passing and defense. In fact, in a preview post about this particular game the first thing I mentioned was Arky's propensity for fouling in volume, and that it would be better for us if there was a reasonably tight whistle, and that we'd better make our FTs when we got them. If those would've been the case this Arky team doesn't stay within single digits of us.

Finally, if you want to use the last dook game as a reference point, I'll just say that if we had that sort of hosing going on in this game?... Hell, we'd have lost going away.
 
"Things weren’t going his way, it was a physical game,” Pinson said. “Refs weren’t really calling anything, but they were doing it good for both teams. They let a lot of stuff go. I was just really proud of him.”


- Theo Pinson (talking about hicks)
 
"Things weren’t going his way, it was a physical game,” Pinson said. “Refs weren’t really calling anything, but they were doing it good for both teams. They let a lot of stuff go. I was just really proud of him.”


- Theo Pinson (talking about hicks)
Yep. And the only redeeming value was that it was consistently bad and we were thus able to make it work for us in the last 3 minutes on the defensive end, having fouls to give and such.

Hell, Hicks (and JB) got face-slapped, eye-poked and generally mugged throughout. He probably earned 10 more FTs just on his own. And Hicks's key late dunk off the Secondary Slip option was a textbook And-1 (that almost ALWAYS gets called) that went uncalled Sunday.
 
The no call leading to Meeks tip in was such s complicated play. Yes, Berry got initially fouled which led him into a walk in order not to charge which he did anyway after the walk. This led to the Hail Mary flip off the boards which was tipped in masterfully. All because the initial foul was not called. Sometimes it just goes your way while others (Nova game last year) don't.
So many bad calls when you think of the entire game. Hicks being called for walking while he was dribbling, Hicks being fouled on his dunk which should have been an and 1, the constant grabbing and pushing on their part, even a few calls going out way (Meeks block and subsequent ball going out of bounds will remain a mystery).
One would think the level of officiating would have been better for a tournament game but we have seen a number of bad calls in other games not involving the Tar Heels as well. Some of this can be explained by the different conference refs calling the game (I'm convinced that certain leagues are called tighter and others not so tight).
But the game seems too fast and too big for them not to be making big mistakes.
 
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