Tar Heels vs. Hokies game thread

[WoadBlue]

"This loss had nothing to do with Fedora."

So asserts the very first time poster. And it ignores this most salient fact: when a team keeps managing to choke games and blow games and sometimes get blown out, even by lousy teams, losing one week because of an epic number of penalties and the next because of stupid turnovers and the one following because of a D out of position and making lousy tackles, and that process rotating, then the problem is the HC's. If those mistakes keep occurring, the HC is responsible.

Larry Fedora is never going to field a consistent winner, not even at Southern Miss. His history marks him as a mediocre coach with mediocre results, which many fans (and dolts in administration) fail to discern because they are salivating at the Fedora high water mark that comes every 4 years or so.

If Fedora is retained, our recruiting class this year will be the worst ranked of his UNC years, and the early prospects for the class of 2020 will again be among the bottom 3 in the ACC. We also will see another dip in season ticket sales and overall attendance.

 

[strummingram]

Fedora's best work was convincing UNC to pay him as much as they did!

 

[Archer2]

“You heard me Bubba. I want a contract extension through 2022 with a big raise and a golden parachute clause. Don’t make me say it a third time!”

 

[TarHeelMark]

Fedora's best work was convincing UNC to pay him as much as they did!

I need his agent to negotiate my next raise!

 

[oneforthehokies]

"This loss had nothing to do with Fedora."

So asserts the very first time poster. And it ignores this most salient fact: when a team keeps managing to choke games and blow games and sometimes get blown out, even by lousy teams, losing one week because of an epic number of penalties and the next because of stupid turnovers and the one following because of a D out of position and making lousy tackles, and that process rotating, then the problem is the HC's. If those mistakes keep occurring, the HC is responsible.

Larry Fedora is never going to field a consistent winner, not even at Southern Miss. His history marks him as a mediocre coach with mediocre results, which many fans (and dolts in administration) fail to discern because they are salivating at the Fedora high water mark that comes every 4 years or so.

If Fedora is retained, our recruiting class this year will be the worst ranked of his UNC years, and the early prospects for the class of 2020 will again be among the bottom 3 in the ACC. We also will see another dip in season ticket sales and overall attendance.

I never said/wrote that the culture of losing and ups and downs at UNC is not due to Fedora. I agree with everything your wrote. What I did write was..........this game isn't on Fedora. The VT loss was on the players. Even the kicker. Again, no argument here that the culture of losing or tainted culture isn't the fault of Fedora. I agree with you on that, but........for this one game vs VT, that loss was on the players.

 

[Archer2]

Maybe if he’d taught them how to win, how to make big plays when we need them, how not to make mistakes at critical times, how to manage the clock when you have the lead and time is winding down, etc...

Make no mistake, this loss is a result of the losing culture he has created at UNC. Our guys probably expect to lose now, ergo why we manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory so often. Fed is all sizzle and no steak and I think the players realize it.

 

[willbill01]

Sounded like Elliott just got booed.

He did get boo’ed. It was embarrassing

 

[gteeitup]

bartended at oktoberfest, just watched the game.

i mean it’s clear larry is more involved because the play calling is different, but we beat them without that fumble.

 

[TarHeelMark]

He did get boo’ed. It was embarrassing

I don’t like that to hear that either for a college kid. He’s giving his best within his abilities. I think our chances were better with Fortin but Elliott played a decent game.

 

[WoadBlue]

I don’t like that to hear that either for a college kid. He’s giving his best within his abilities. I think our chances were better with Fortin but Elliott played a decent game.

Elliott's limitations are so obvious to most people that many of them assume he is much worse than he is. Against VT, Elliott was 11 of 15 for 147 yards and 1 TD. I think Fortin clearly has more upside, but Elliott played a good game, one that statistically was better than Fortin's game.

 

[midline]

I do love it so when the bleeding hearts come out every fall who get upset about the "kids" being booed. I know a lot of 18-22 yr olds that work to support themselves. Many other are in harms way defending our country as we speak. So lets leave the "kid" crap right there. College football is a business. Not sure if anyone has noticed but it cost a nice chunk of change to support a team by attending games. As far as the players, they have advantages very few have. The great majority couldn't even hope to sniff admission to UNC, or any other major university, on their own academic merit. Then when they get on campus, they have their hand held by untold numbers of tutors and advisors that the average student couldn't imagine. Fed better than most. Certainly better than the student population as a whole. And when things go well, they are treated as kings by the masses in ways that most of us could never imagine. They have a coach that makes millions for his efforts, and assistants making well into six figures. College football is like any other business in the entertainment world. They hope to out a product on the field that people will want to pay to see. Right now, the fan base at UNC is not getting a very good return on that investment.

 

[oneforthehokies]

Maybe if he’d taught them how to win, how to make big plays when we need them, how not to make mistakes at critical times, how to manage the clock when you have the lead and time is winding down, etc...

Make no mistake, this loss is a result of the losing culture he has created at UNC. Our guys probably expect to lose now, ergo why we manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory so often. Fed is all sizzle and no steak and I think the players realize it.

Agree with your premise, but again, catching a ball that hits you in the chest without a defender within 15 yds isn't making a big play. A fumble at the one isn't on Fedora and a culture of losing. The kid was told to hold on to the ball. He didnt. No argument here. I think Fedora should be gone, but again, as for this one game, I blame the players. What I will argue is....Fedora should have used his timeouts when VT got inside the 20 on the last series. That would have given us another 30 or so seconds to possibly get in field goal range.

 

[gteeitup]

finished watching last night.

carolina has truly figured out how to lose in any way possible.

 

[uncboy10]

bartended at oktoberfest, just watched the game.

i mean it’s clear larry is more involved because the play calling is different, but we beat them without that fumble.

That’s true. But it’s also true that if we manage the clock in the 4th quarter the fumble doesn’t matter. We were snapping the ball with 20+ seconds on the play clock for the last two drives, and even went hurry up in the red zone on that last drive.

 

[gteeitup]

That’s true. But it’s also true that if we manage the clock in the 4th quarter the fumble doesn’t matter. We were snapping the ball with 20+ seconds on the play clock for the last two drives, and even went hurry up in the red zone before that last drive.

which is another reason he needs to pack his shit

 

[GoNtheDistance]

The head coach is accountable for wins and losses. And yes (for you goobers who blame the losses on guys who dropped passes, can’t throw a good pass, miss tackles, etc), Fedora is responsible for the guys on the field and their productivity, because he recruited them. They are his players. You win with them and lose with them. Simply put, we are among the least talented P5 schools top to bottom on both sides of the ball. We have kids played quarterback that wouldn’t have a scholarship at other places. One of Our best backs was literally 4th or 5th on the depth chart elsewhere. Take away ARW, and our receiving corps are garbage. Our defense shows signs of life from time to time but couldn’t slow down a good offense if they were playing 11 on 1. I’ll say this. I think our guys are playing hard which is a testament to their character, but we lack talent, lack discipline, lack execution and have a terrible staff who doesn’t manage the game at all. All of that is on a fedora. He sucks bottom line.

 

[notashelbyfan]

I support Larry...I know a lot of people have lost all support for him, but look at what we have had the last year and a half at the QB position. Elliott seems like a great kid, but he just doesn't have what it takes. Chaz is a great athlete but his decision making is horrific. I think Cade Fortin has ALOT of potential..He throws a very nice ball and we have the players around him to be very successful on offense the next few years. We just need the defense to be consistent and play at the level they did tonight. I know that part probably won't happen under Fed but he still has my support going forward. It's been frustrating to watch the last year unfold but I truly believe this program will be back on the map. I don't think he should be fired...not this year anyway.

Fedora, played Williams ahead of Trubisky.

Need we say more?

 

[tarheel0910]

The head coach is accountable for wins and losses. And yes (for you goobers who blame the losses on guys who dropped passes, can’t throw a good pass, miss tackles, etc), Fedora is responsible for the guys on the field and their productivity, because he recruited them. They are his players. You win with them and lose with them. Simply put, we are among the least talented P5 schools top to bottom on both sides of the ball. We have kids played quarterback that wouldn’t have a scholarship at other places. One of Our best backs was literally 4th or 5th on the depth chart elsewhere. Take away ARW, and our receiving corps are garbage. Our defense shows signs of life from time to time but couldn’t slow down a good offense if they were playing 11 on 1. I’ll say this. I think our guys are playing hard which is a testament to their character, but we lack talent, lack discipline, lack execution and have a terrible staff who doesn’t manage the game at all. All of that is on a fedora. He sucks bottom line.

There's talent there. The problem is that talent doesn't always get put in a position to succeed or isn't used properly. Carter is a 1,000 yard back if he can stay healthy and Fortin looks like he can be a really good QB. Step back from the ledge.

 

[Archer2]

That’s true. But it’s also true that if we manage the clock in the 4th quarter the fumble doesn’t matter. We were snapping the ball with 20+ seconds on the play clock for the last two drives, and even went hurry up in the red zone on that last drive.

Zero clock management skills by our HC. He only knows how to play one way, even when it doesn't suit our personnel. And he doesn't have the sense to change it up and milk the clock when time is on our side.

The head coach is accountable for wins and losses. And yes (for you goobers who blame the losses on guys who dropped passes, can’t throw a good pass, miss tackles, etc), Fedora is responsible for the guys on the field and their productivity, because he recruited them. They are his players. You win with them and lose with them. Simply put, we are among the least talented P5 schools top to bottom on both sides of the ball. We have kids played quarterback that wouldn’t have a scholarship at other places. One of Our best backs was literally 4th or 5th on the depth chart elsewhere. Take away ARW, and our receiving corps are garbage. Our defense shows signs of life from time to time but couldn’t slow down a good offense if they were playing 11 on 1. I’ll say this. I think our guys are playing hard which is a testament to their character, but we lack talent, lack discipline, lack execution and have a terrible staff who doesn’t manage the game at all. All of that is on a fedora. He sucks bottom line.

We have some talent, probably more than 4-5 other teams in the league that are doing much more with less. The man isn't qualified to capably coach a P5 program.

 

[WoadBlue]

That’s true. But it’s also true that if we manage the clock in the 4th quarter the fumble doesn’t matter. We were snapping the ball with 20+ seconds on the play clock for the last two drives, and even went hurry up in the red zone on that last drive.

And that poor clock management after the years of our teams making multiple stupid penalties because of rushing the snap.

Plain and simple: if it is in your interest to run the clock, and you rush the snaps, often with as many as 20 seconds on the play clock, then you are STUPID.

 

[Appo3]

The head coach is accountable for wins and losses. And yes (for you goobers who blame the losses on guys who dropped passes".

Losses, as in plural. I never wrote anything plural regarding loss blame. I told you, I blame Fedora for the program's failures and poor culture. I think he should be fired, but again, I blame.....this one loss on the players. Singular loss. A High School kid at the smallest single A school in the US catches those 2 drops and a High School kid at QB at the smallest single A school in the US doesn't overthrow a WR by 10 yards in that moment. In all 3 moments, the WR had 15 yards of separation. I know for a fact that Fedora and the offensive staff told the kid at the goal line "whatever you do, hold on to the ball and do not fumble." Those words were given and a coach can't be any more precise. But, I agree Fedora should be fired. I have no argument there, but ANY college recruit at ANY school that is at the bottom of the depth chart at the worst school in America catches those balls.

P.S. The reason we were snapping with so much time on the clock is because VT was gassed. Their D is already bad and they were gassed on top of that. The pace crippled their defense all night and going hurry up in the redzone after the long pass was spot on. They were gassed. If you look at the hit on the fumble, the VT player didn't even wrap up. He's so gassed that he doesn't even put his arms outside our RB to wrap up, he just throws his body into our RB. I blame the culture of losing on Fedora and I think we should start fresh with an entire different staff, but again, for this one loss, this very one game, I blame the players. Sorry, but I do.

 

[Realfreedom]

Any one that could watch that game and not lay it on the shoulders of Larry Fedora, well I question their football IQ. Twice in the first half he puts Elliot in for one play inside the 20. I assumed it was because he did not trust the freshman to throw it inside the redzone. Wrong, the first play (the fumble) was going to be an option type play with an unathletic quarterback. Larry helped to stall each drive.

On the fumble at the one, that to is on Larry. On the first play of the drive we start with a qb sneak and we should have ended with a qb sneak.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

There's talent there. The problem is that talent doesn't always get put in a position to succeed or isn't used properly. Carter is a 1,000 yard back if he can stay healthy and Fortin looks like he can be a really good QB. Step back from the ledge.

Respectfully, ou haven’t watched or followed much big time college football if you think we are a talented team. We are routinely in the 50-60 range in recruiting classes each year. Look up and down the rankings. There’s a distinct correlation in consistent output based on the level of talent you recruit. Look at the power 5 schools below us in the rankings the last 3-4 years. I’ll save you the trouble. There’s not many. Look at the 2019 rankings, we are 60th and one can only imagine that at best, we stay there. There isn’t a ton of talent coming in to Save the day. Fedora has put us 2-3 years at absolute best following his departure for us to bring in quality depth to help the program.

 

[tarheel0910]

Respectfully, ou haven’t watched or followed much big time college football if you think we are a talented team. We are routinely in the 50-60 range in recruiting classes each year. Look up and down the rankings. There’s a distinct correlation in consistent output based on the level of talent you recruit. Look at the power 5 schools below us in the rankings the last 3-4 years. I’ll save you the trouble. There’s not many. Look at the 2019 rankings, we are 60th and one can only imagine that at best, we stay there. There isn’t a ton of talent coming in to Save the day. Fedora has put us 2-3 years at absolute best following his departure for us to bring in quality depth to help the program.

We've got some talent. I'm not saying we are Alabama, but we aren't one of the least talented teams. And our recruiting is usually higher than the 50s. Rankings according to rivals:

2018 23
2017 30
2016 23
2015 28

Per scout:
2018 22
2017 28
2016 35
2015 32

 

[strummingram]

We've got some talent. I'm not saying we are Alabama, but we aren't one of the least talented teams. And our recruiting is usually higher than the 50s. Rankings according to rivals:

2018 23
2017 30
2016 23
2015 28

Per scout:
2018 22
2017 28
2016 35
2015 32

I'm not a football analyst at all. However, I have an opinion!

I really think Fedora has recruited okay. I'd give him a B-minus, personally. He's got some NFL starters come from his harvest. Trubisky is one!

I don't think he is a head coach. I'm not even sure that he's a good offensive coordinator. His style and preference seems to be antithetical to having a balanced team. He never learns from mistakes, and therefore, improvement is not likely at all.

But, he could be a good talent evaluator.

 

[tarheel0910]

I'm not a football analyst at all. However, I have an opinion!

I really think Fedora has recruited okay. I'd give him a B-minus, personally. He's got some NFL starters come from his harvest. Trubisky is one!

I don't think he is a head coach. I'm not even sure that he's a good offensive coordinator. His style and preference seems to be antithetical to having a balanced team. He never learns from mistakes, and therefore, improvement is not likely at all.

But, he could be a good talent evaluator.

I think that's a fair assessment.

 

[Tarheel8592]

Fedora, played Williams ahead of Trubisky.

Need we say more?

That he did, and who knows what would have happened had Mitch been the guy against USC and Clemson...I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have thrown 3 red zone INT's... but we still won 11 games that year with Quise.

 

[Archer2]

I think that's a fair assessment.

As do I. Especially the part about not learning from his mistakes.

 

[gteeitup]

As do I. Especially the part about not learning from his mistakes.

right...evolving since day 1 hasn’t occurred.

i keep going back to when he was replaced at somiss...they had to “clean up” some things.

people need to go back and watch the first state game, the scarolina game in charlotte, and the georgia game...they are microcosms of his tenure here.

 

[WoadBlue]

right...evolving since day 1 hasn’t occurred.

i keep going back to when he was replaced at somiss...they had to “clean up” some things.

people need to go back and watch the first state game, the scarolina game in charlotte, and the georgia game...they are microcosms of his tenure here.

The Southern Miss debacle is something I began stressing last year. Fedora inherited a winner at USM. Fedora took over a program that had 14 consecutive winning seasons.

Fedora was 7-6 his 1st year only because he beat Troy by 3 in the New Orleans Bowl. And then the year after Fedora left, USM collapsed into a 0-12 team.

If a coach leaves a healthy program, that program does not go from 12-2 to 0-12, unless Richard Simmons is the new HC and he spends all his time getting players to sweat to the oldies and improve their fashion sense.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

Bingo Woad! I keep telling people that Fedora is going to leave the cupboard so bare that we are 2-3 years in with a new coach before we see quality depth and stability. Our recruiting has been that bad of late. We are in the 60’s in 2019 recruiting classes and beyond and that won’t get any better given the state of the program. That’s one of the worst in all of Power 5 football. Just pathetic.

 

[JimmyinVA]

...we still won 11 games that year with Quise.

quise was a good quarterback, but not nfl calibre. not only did fedora bench the better quarterback, but he gave him very little playing time. a smart coach puts the best players on the field... period. this sends a powerful message about WINNING. this year nick saban benched a former SEC player of the year, a well-liked leader. why? because the other guy is better. THAT's a coach.

 

[notashelbyfan]

That he did, and who knows what would have happened had Mitch been the guy against USC and Clemson...I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have thrown 3 red zone INT's... but we still won 11 games that year with Quise.

I was done with him after that USC game

 

[Tarheel8592]

quise was a good quarterback, but not nfl calibre. not only did fedora bench the better quarterback, but he gave him very little playing time. a smart coach puts the best players on the field... period. this sends a powerful message about WINNING. this year nick saban benched a former SEC player of the year, a well-liked leader. why? because the other guy is better. THAT's a coach.

If it were up to me Mitch would have been playing in 2014.....