The anti-UNC ACC officiating bias
- Thread starter UNCGridironFanatic
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I don't really believe in any type of conspiracy. I think the officials are just incompetent and in over their heads. CFB is a multi-million dollar enterprise and deserves better and younger full time officials. I blame the ACC office for never disciplining officials for mistakes and poor overall performance. I tell you a lot of these guys call a H.S. game on Friday night so they probably aren't properly rested especially for a 12 noon game. They should be at the game venue by Thursday a.m. reviewing film of teams tendencies etc. for A Saturday game.
Heard a know-it-all taking about the "proper" measurement was to from either end of the "chain" where it fastens to the rod...complete BS, measurement was always stick to stick...or rather the inside edge of the rod! We got hosed on the spot, it happens quite often, watch the line judge and the ref marking the ball down, they all move, alot.
I think there is something to this. ABC is a very powerful force. GT fans will make jokes about the stupidity of UNC fans thinking there is any ABC sentiment outside MooU and Dook, and then will parrot every insane thing Wufs and Dookies say.
There's an old saying that you should never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity and incompetence.
But it still seems like football refs screw us far more than normal. If they have bought the Wuf charge that basketball refs favor us, then maybe subconsciously some football refs look to not give us the benefit of the doubt.
I'd wager $100 that u could visit the boards of the top 100 and at least 90 of them would have posters making similar claims. That they dont get calls cause the refs dont like them or like another team better.
I get just as frustrated as anyone when we get bad calls. I booed ron cherry til i was hoarse the first game i attended with him officiating after the va tech debacle. But noones gonna convince me theres a conspiracy against unc athletics. First of all this would require a joint effort involving dozens of these alleged "abc'ers" in the ncaa, officiating, and the conference. Theres no way everyone would be on board and someone would talk at some point. A memo or email would surface or someone would get cold feet. And that would be conspiracy to commit fraud and would be the scandal of the century in ncaa athletics. U really think people in the ncaa and officials would risk their reps and their careers to screw unc?
Secondly Why unc? We make $ for the ncaa! We are in the 8th largest viewing market! If we lose and we suck NOONE WATCHES AND RATINGS SUCK AND ATTENDANCE SUCKS AND THE NEW TV DEAL SUCKS SND THE NCAA DOESNT GET PAID!!!!! What would the ncaa profit in seeing us lose? U really trying to say that as well as risking ruining their careers and reps that these people are willing to throw away MILLIONS of dollars in revenue to see unc lose?
Lmao
OK, perhaps I shouldn't have used the word "conspiracy"... the implication being a wide network of evil people of ill-intent. I think it's really just the ABCer phenomenon...officials are human, and their biases HAVE to come into play. To deny that is to deny human nature. Face it, you either like UNC, or you don't. We are not a program/institution that induces neutrality or ambivalence of emotion. And today's 50-ish folks were teens when the whole ABC thing started...now they have the power to execute their bias meaningfully.
Not to beat a dead horse, but the measurement Sat. is the clearest case yet of the difference between incompetence and agenda. There is simply no way to make an honest judgment that THAT was a first down....and I'm not talking about the spot. I'm talking only of the kneeling ref looking at the chain in relation to the ball, smiling smugly for the ESPN cameras to see (and I have the game taped...he did that), and saying it was a first down.
Not incompetence; just simply a DISHONEST attempt to impact the game negatively for UNC (or favorably for GT). That whole crew should be fired, immediately. And for some reason, this stuff happens to us all the time, never w/ any consequences for the offenders.
Not incompetence; just simply a DISHONEST attempt to impact the game negatively for UNC (or favorably for GT). That whole crew should be fired, immediately. And for some reason, this stuff happens to us all the time, never w/ any consequences for the offenders.
You do know that all other acc fan bases are convinced 100 percent that we get fav calls from the officials by order of swafford and that the ncaa is intentionally going soft on us with the af am scandal.
Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle.
and it wasn't short looking in at one angle, it was short looking at every angle.
if a ref attended an acc school other than unc in the 80's there's an excellent chance he harbors a secret resentment of unc. with our recent woes we tend to forget how dominant we were in basketball. and in the early 80's we added a football conference title to go along with hoops dominance -- the abc'ers worst nightmare, something they are highly motivated to prevent if possible. imo some football refs appear to bring their abc'er bias onto the field. if you don't believe that fine, but i do.
I believe the bias exists from us being mediocre in football since time immortal. Refs expect us to screw up and suck because that's what history shows we have done.
To buttress your point, Jimmy....when I lived in VA, I talked face-to-face w/ a retired, former ACC basketball official that admitted to me (he didn't know I was a UNC alum; to him, I was just a Sales Director calling on him who was a hoops fan and recognized his name as an official) that he "hated" Dean Smith and didn't like UNC because of Smith. Now, he didn't go so far as to admit to any hanky/panky when officiating UNC games. To give perspective, Dean was still coaching at the time; in fact, it was prior to the 1993 title.
I never forgot that conversation. We all tend to think of officials as somehow losing their own humanity once they put on the zebra suit. Nonsense; they bring their biases to work just like we all do.
I never forgot that conversation. We all tend to think of officials as somehow losing their own humanity once they put on the zebra suit. Nonsense; they bring their biases to work just like we all do.
And 3 UNC football titles in the 70s....70s and 80s is when most of this generation of officials grew up.
Steve Logan says that officials subconsciously "know who is supposed to win and who isn't", and he has often stated that comes into play. Specifically, he said that in reference to the phantom "roughing the punt snapper" call at ND last year. Now, does anyone want to argue THAT wasn't a call borne of bias, just sheer incompetence? We'd just taken the league, and gotten a stop on D (really, we did!). And then that bogus BS occurred.
I've been asking that very question for the better part of 4 decades.....I NEVER remember a call favoring UNC that just came out of left field. I remember the Fuzzy Lee interference controversy at moo on an attempt to tie the score in regulation; that was a matter of a MISS on the part of the official, not bias. Bang bang play; official made a call. IMO, a bad one (but one I enjoyed and moo deserved!
). But that crap Sat. and at ND last year was pure BIAS.
Sometimes the official gets caught...on film and blatant...
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...e-forecast-acc-referee-mistake/1#.VhQbQ1UViko
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...e-forecast-acc-referee-mistake/1#.VhQbQ1UViko
Never underestimate the stupidity and incompetence that could be responsible.
Well, I hear that explanation 80% of the time, and I WANT to believe it..."it's incompetence, not bias"....sadly, I don't believe it. Simply put, if it was just incompetence, WHY do these mysterious calls NEVER benefit UNC? Seriously, tell me the last time a big call went our way that changed a game, and seemingly came outta nowhere?? I'm perfectly open to having my opinion changed. But stuff like the Switzer call is beyond incompetence as a reasonable explanation; you simply have to claim you saw something as an official that clearly DIDN'T happen. Not a judgment call; not the missing of something that DID happen....no, that call was made by a man on top of the play claiming that a call for a fair catch was made that clearly wasn't. That ref said he saw a waved hand when Switz's hand was never even raised.
It is not just incompetence. If you believe that, it's akin to believing that Obama really isn't trying to weaken the country despite all the empirical evidence clearly in front of your eyes and available for processing in your brain. At this point, it's denial of the obvious, in both cases.
it doesn't have to be a conspiracy it could just mean everybody hates us.
deems went off on this after the game and blamed swofford because he's let this crap go on for too long.
i agree.
deems went off on this after the game and blamed swofford because he's let this crap go on for too long.
i agree.
Tend to agree. I don't think it's a conspiracy. As I've opined previously, I think it's as simple as the current generation of officials by and large resent UNC's overall athletic excellence and grew up watching Dean's teams own ACC hoops, and as FB is the one sport we've not been dominant, they are individually determined that we are NOT going to be dominant in football too. Their individual biases are readily evident.
Not some planned, machine-like conspiracy.
Deems sure did. It was great. He said hey do not blame the refs, they are in over their head. He said that crew should not do middle school game. He also pointed out that all ACC games are horrible and it is at the feet of John Swofford.
After a night to calmly re-watch the whole sequence of events there still is no excuse for the entire crew to miss such a crucial call. Since the game was on TV Swofford is now painted into a corner and he must stand up and not just say the zebra crew blew the call but that they were incompetent.
There is no way ANYBODY could mistake the slight movement of Switzer's right hand upward (but only up to his chest) as a fair catch signal. Ridiculous.
I think the Wake players just assumed he would call FC since he was surrounded and they seemed to ease up. Likewise the dumbass refs fell for that too. Switzer fooled them all so well that the stripped dipshits blew it.
I think the Wake players just assumed he would call FC since he was surrounded and they seemed to ease up. Likewise the dumbass refs fell for that too. Switzer fooled them all so well that the stripped dipshits blew it.
+100 loved Deems calling out Swofford. If Swofford can't improve things , then it's time for him to go. I think the fair catch call was incompetence , the official was confused on the play and blew an inadvertent whistle and then to cover it up claimed Switzer had made a fair catch signal and made the delay of game call. A clear case of incompetence trying to be covered because for an official there is nothing more embarrasing than an inadvertent whistle.
Deems May blasted Swofford for continually putting incompetent officials out there week after week. If the average person performed their jobs like the officials have the past two games, they would be fired. There is no longer a conspiracy in mind, it was proven to be an actual thing last night. The last two games, phantom fair catch call and the give them a first down even though the evidence said otherwise call is 100% proof that the ACC is doing everything it can to make UNC football does not win. The biggest joke about last night's call is if Switzer called the fair catch then why was Wake not penalized for running into him. At least one guy, if not 2 hit him after he caught the ball and before he began to run. Those 2 terrible calls could have decided the game, luckily UNC overcame. MARK IT DOWN, UNC WILL LOSE A GAME THIS YEAR BECAUSE OF A BLOWN CALL.
I really think the official got confused when Wake let up and then inadvertently blew his whistle and then they got together and schemed the "invisible" fair catch signal to cover it up. The minute I saw the group of clowns officiating I knew they were trouble.
I'm not sure of your logic here - it just makes them look even worse if it played out that way. I think the official that made the call thought that Switzer made a fair catch signal... not saying that he saw him do it - but assumed he did when the Wake players let up, maybe took his eye off of Switzer for a second, blew the whistle, and you know the rest.
As a fairly high level ice hockey referee for the past 17 years, I can tell you that this happens... you are watching the play, your vision adjusts to something else (maybe two other players battling) for a split second, you turn your eyes back, and in that split second the puck carrier is now on the ice with the other player's stick in between his legs. You think "that HAD to be a trip, right?" - and some officials are going to make that call, even though they didn't "see" it. They might get the call "right" in that situation 9/10 times, but what happens that 1/10 times when, actually, the player's skates just caught an edge and that's why he tripped? I think that in the Switzer situation, that's a more plausible scenario. He made the call on "thought" as opposed to "sight."
As for the other officials and why they didn't overrule, they have different assignments and have to watch the other 21 players on the field... so it's possible that none of them were watching Switzer, and therefore couldn't overrule it and definitively say that he didn't signal for fair catch.
If any of the other referees had known definitively that he had not signaled fair catch, IMO they would have huddled up, spotted the ball where it was when the play was blown dead due to the inadvertent whistle (because you can't allow Switzer's run up the field - it looked like several of the Wake players slowed up when they heard the whistles before he turned it upfield), and NOT assessed a penalty. IMO, admitting the mistake (even though UNC won't be happy with the outcome because they can't go back and un-blow the whistle) makes them look a lot better for at least getting the call right and not pouring salt in the wound and assessing a penalty to boot.
Sorry but officials will go to great lengths to cover up an inadvertent whistle (I know I use to call HSFB) and as far as other officials having different assignments and over ruling it doesn't matter an inadvertent whistle kills the play and is a bad reflection on the whole crew. Nothing they could do but spot the ball and start the cover up. Bottom line is that once the whistle blew there is nothing to overturn.
Yeah I don't Swofford going anywhere. I do want the ACC league office to address officiating though. It's godawful.
If they actually knew they screwed up, how does it help the crew or their credibility to then make it worse by assessing an incorrect penalty, when they could have just admitted the error/inadvertent whistle, spotted the ball where it was, and not calling a penalty?
You said there is nothing they could do... Yea, I know and understand why no matter what, they weren't going to get a spot upfield at the end of the run. But in reality they had two choices. Spot the ball where it was caught and blown dead with no penalty, or spot the ball WITH a penalty.
You're telling me that you actually think the crew KNEW that he never signaled fair catch, and intentionally chose to still assess a penalty, instead of admitting to the mistake/inadvertent whistle, and simply spotting the ball?
I still think the crew didn't really know either way whether he did or didn't, and just had to trust the one guy who blew the whistle, so they assessed the penalty... Due to their own incompetence, rather than due to some aluminum foil hat conspiracy against UNC.
Except you are forgetting, in your rush to defend the zebras, that Switz was HIT after catching the ball... IF your scenario was true, there should have been a flag... on wake.
