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The death of American patriotism

TarHeelNation11

TarHeelNation11

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Mar 9, 2007
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(Editor's note: for the sake of this thread, I kindly suggest/request you put aside the Trump - NFL - anthem thing for a second)

Where has American patriotism gone? Remember the 90s? Remember how everyone was so proud to be American? Tons of everyday clothing was American themed; people would wear American flag shirts or shorts or dresses. In general, it seemed folks were outwardly very proud to be American. Were we a perfect nation in the 90s? Hell no. Plenty of terrible things went wrong in the 90s. But people were still proud to be American.

Fast forward to the past 5 or so years. What the **** has happened? Why is it so "cool" now for folks (I'm trying to keep this non-political so I'm not gonna identify who it is that usually does this and I'll just say "folks") to be sorta anti-American and trot out the "Yeah man, Canada and Norway do it better. American society is so behind the times." What the what?! I hate that so much.

Is America perfect? Hell no. There are things that BOTH political parties do and support that make America not perfect. But is America 1000% better than any other country on earth? You bet your fuggin nuts it is. I'm sick of this fad of some folks being "ashamed" to be American and ish like that. American patriotism is now mocked in 2018 as "'Murica hahahaha!!!111!!!! You are patriotic so you must be a backwards guy with a Southern accent and a deep voice!!!111!!!"

Sick of it man. I know a ton of Americans are still patriotic, but there's certainly a vocal group that is proudly anti-American and I don't support that one damn bit. USA! USA!
 
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Is that first paragraph a nod to the Always Sunny episode "The Gang Wrestles for the Troops"?

I personally don't think it's anti-American or anti-patriotic to recognize the short comings of our country and want to make them better. I love America as much as the next guy, but there are areas in which America is behind other countries. I'd rather be a citizen of this country more than anywhere else in the world, but there are things we can do to become better.

To me, it's like being a sports fan. I love Carolina as much as anyone, but you'd have to be blindly loyal to believe our football team is the best and has no room to improve. I love the team, I'm at every game in Kenan Stadium, but I want us to be better. There are things we could do to become better. Doesn't mean I don't love the team or want to jump ship to other teams, just viewing it realistically.

JMO on the deal.
 
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r68g0.jpg
 
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heelz2345 said:
Is that first paragraph a nod to the Always Sunny episode "The Gang Wrestles for the Troops"?
Click to expand...
It was not directly a not, but it did come to mind as I was typing it.

heelz2345 said:
Is that first paragraph a nod to the Always Sunny episode "The Gang Wrestles for the Troops"?

I personally don't think it's anti-American or anti-patriotic to recognize the short comings of our country and want to make them better. I love America as much as the next guy, but there are areas in which America is behind other countries. I'd rather be a citizen of this country more than anywhere else in the world, but there are things we can do to become better.

To me, it's like being a sports fan. I love Carolina as much as anyone, but you'd have to be blindly loyal to believe our football team is the best and has no room to improve. I love the team, I'm at every game in Kenan Stadium, but I want us to be better. There are things we could do to become better. Doesn't mean I don't love the team or want to jump ship to other teams, just viewing it realistically.

JMO on the deal.
Click to expand...
Never did I say it's unpatriotic to point out shortcomings, man. I freely admitted in my OP that we have issues. But we also had issues in the 90s and 80s when patriotism was much more of a "cool" thing.

Standing up for what you believe in and voicing your opinion on issues is American as shit, but that has nothing to do with showing patriotism and still loving to be American. You're talking politics. I'm talking just outwardly showing pride in being American. Do you disagree with my premise that in 2018, it's much cooler to be kinda anti-American? It's a fad. People think it's cool to say things like "Norway is a model to be like. They do it right."
 
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1. I literally don't know anyone who is anti-American.

2. Saying Norway and Canada do some things better than us (facts prove they do) is not anti-American. It's being real and not just sticking our heads in red white and blue sand. It doesn't make us any less patriotic.

3. I wear red white and blue stuff proudly. I don't need to like our President (I don't), like every single law we have (I don't), or have to think we're perfect (I don't) to be patriotic.

I think you're just confusing criticism for our President as anti-American. They are not the same.
 
Well, I simply disagree with your premise that being anti-American is cool. A very very very very very small percentage of people in this country are anti-American.
 
dadika13 said:
Well, I simply disagree with your premise that being anti-American is cool. A very very very very very small percentage of people in this country are anti-American.
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You're right that it could be overblown by social media since the loudest voices are usually the biggest minorities (minority in viewpoint, not race), but to be clear, I'm not talking like........... Boston Marathon Iranian brothers-level hatred of America. I'm talking like dude in flip flops in [insert college] poli sci class who thinks America sucks and says he wishes he could move to Oslo. He doesn't mean it..... it's just a fad.
 
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TarHeelNation11 said:
It was not directly a not, but it did come to mind as I was typing it.


Never did I say it's unpatriotic to point out shortcomings, man. I freely admitted in my OP that we have issues. But we also had issues in the 90s and 80s when patriotism was much more of a "cool" thing.

Standing up for what you believe in and voicing your opinion on issues is American as shit, but that has nothing to do with showing patriotism and still loving to be American. You're talking politics. I'm talking just outwardly showing pride in being American. Do you disagree with my premise that in 2018, it's much cooler to be kinda anti-American? It's a fad. People think it's cool to say things like "Norway is a model to be like. They do it right."
Click to expand...
No, I know you didn't say it was unpatriotic, didn't mean to imply you did, just saying that for me, I think because people see things happening here that don't elsewhere or how we are behind in areas where we have long been ahead, that leads to the desire to adapt to how some other countries have done so that we can become leaders in those areas again, which can be seen as "less proud" or whatever you want to call it. I don't disagree that more people are saying stuff like "Oh, here they do this, why can't we do that?" but I don't personally view that as less pride in being American.
 
TarHeelNation11 said:
Do you disagree with my premise that in 2018, it's much cooler to be kinda anti-American? It's a fad. People think it's cool to say things like "Norway is a model to be like. They do it right."
Click to expand...

I know exactly what you're talking about. If everyone who ever said "You know, I'd rather live in X, its better than America" actually had to move there, we'd hear it a lot less I'm sure.

I honestly do think it's portrayal by the media and on social media. That's the easy cop out these days, just to blame everything on the media, but I really think that plays a part (not just the MSNBC, CNN, Fox News "media" mind you, but also TV shows, movies, podcasts, etc. that liken American patriotism to uneducated racist redneck gun toting slobs)

I even have found it creeping into my own subconscious bias. I was out boating on a lake over the weekend, and saw some chick in an American flag bikini (smokeshow by the way). Maybe that's still somewhat common in the South - but I couldn't tell you the last time I've seen the American flag bikini up here. I immediately thought to myself - well there's a rare Republican/Trump supporter in this area. All because she was reppin' the flag. I know there are educated liberal minded people out there who are incredibly patriotic, it just seems like American Patriotism has become an issue that has unfortunately been politicized just like Abortion, LGBTQ rights, Gun Control, etc.
 
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Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
I know exactly what you're talking about. If everyone who ever said "You know, I'd rather live in X, its better than America" actually had to move there, we'd hear it a lot less I'm sure.

I honestly do think it's portrayal by the media and on social media. That's the easy cop out these days, just to blame everything on the media, but I really think that plays a part (not just the MSNBC, CNN, Fox News "media" mind you, but also TV shows, movies, podcasts, etc. that liken American patriotism to uneducated racist redneck gun toting slobs)

I even have found it creeping into my own subconscious bias. I was out boating on a lake over the weekend, and saw some chick in an American flag bikini (smokeshow by the way). Maybe that's still somewhat common in the South - but I couldn't tell you the last time I've seen the American flag bikini up here. I immediately thought to myself - well there's a rare Republican/Trump supporter in this area. All because she was reppin' the flag. I know there are educated liberal minded people out there who are incredibly patriotic, it just seems like American Patriotism has become an issue that has unfortunately been politicized just like Abortion, LGBTQ rights, Gun Control, etc.
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This is what I'm getting at, thank you for saying it better than I did. It's like the virtue of outward patriotism has become a strictly Republican / Southern thing.
 
TarHeelNation11 said:
It's like the virtue of outward patriotism has become a strictly Republican / Southern thing.
Click to expand...
I would associate that to the Bible Belt being the most tribal-istic. And, the South is, by far, mostly Republican. There are some statistics of the Bible Belt that are pretty embarrassing (and embarrassing is me being polite). So, if you have to endorse them, their behavior, and attitudes, in order to be American, or "patriotic", then, maybe that's part of the decline.

Patriotism is definitely a tribal instinct. It doesn't bother me to see it fade and die. As far as American clothing, I disagree 100%. I see that shit everywhere. In fact, it used to be considered somewhat disrespectful offensive to wear the flag as casual clothing. I remember my uncle hated my cousin's Easy Rider poster because he had the US Flag on his jacket and motorcycle tank. Maybe he just hated Hippies and Freaks.
 
strummingram said:
As far as American clothing, I disagree 100%. I see that shit everywhere.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, all of these people rockin' American flag/logo clothing, do they run the gamut on gender, race, religion, political affiliation (might not possible to tell the last couple just by looking if you don't actually know the people personally) - or are they predominantly one group of each?

For the ones that you don't know the political affiliation of - if you had to make your best guess as to what they are, would you guess predominantly one leaning or the other, or would you say they're probably an even split?
 
Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
Out of curiosity, all of these people rockin' American flag/logo clothing, do they run the gamut on gender, race, religion, political affiliation (might not possible to tell the last couple just by looking if you don't actually know the people personally) - or are they predominantly one group of each?

For the ones that you don't know the political affiliation of - if you had to make your best guess as to what they are, would you guess predominantly one leaning or the other, or would you say they're probably an even split?
Click to expand...
I just see the clothes on the racks and in the stores... as well as online. There's absolutely no lack of American Flag-themed clothing available.

To me, politicians always have their little US Flag pins. That's pandering, in my opinion. I see that and think "you're pandering." But, that's mostly because I rarely, if ever, trust a politician. As far as the average person? I don't really keep a tally in my head. Very little catches my attention anymore, when it comes to casual attire on the general public.
 
strummingram said:
I would associate that to the Bible Belt being the most tribal-istic. And, the South is, by far, mostly Republican. There are some statistics of the Bible Belt that are pretty embarrassing (and embarrassing is me being polite). So, if you have to endorse them, their behavior, and attitudes, in order to be American, or "patriotic", then, maybe that's part of the decline.

Patriotism is definitely a tribal instinct. It doesn't bother me to see it fade and die. As far as American clothing, I disagree 100%. I see that shit everywhere. In fact, it used to be considered somewhat disrespectful offensive to wear the flag as casual clothing. I remember my uncle hated my cousin's Easy Rider poster because he had the US Flag on his jacket and motorcycle tank. Maybe he just hated Hippies and Freaks.
Click to expand...
1. This is a PEAK Strum poast. You worked in tribalism and an assertion that you are able to remove yourself from normal life real-world constructs that all us other poor saps are slaves to. Well done.

2. Related to 1 above, I didn't make it to the second sentence of your poast before I was already shaking my head. Yes, the South is sooooo much more tribalistic than anywhere else. Ethnic neighborhoods in all major old cities (New York, Boston, Chicago, etc.)? Mehhh. Entire states like Montana having like 17 black people. Mehhhhh. Certain Northern and Western states always 100% of the time vote Democrat en masse. But no, only the Bible Belt is tribalistic.
 
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strummingram said:
There are some statistics of the Bible Belt that are pretty embarrassing (and embarrassing is me being polite). So, if you have to endorse them, their behavior, and attitudes, in order to be American, or "patriotic", then, maybe that's part of the decline.
Click to expand...
I don't think @TarHeelNation11 was saying anything about endorsing any specific type of person or their behavior. He was talking about the whole country.
 
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TarHeelNation11 said:
1. This is a PEAK Strum poast. You worked in tribalism and an assertion that you are able to remove yourself from normal life real-world constructs that all us other poor saps are slaves to. Well done.

2. Related to 1 above, I didn't make it to the second sentence of your poast before I was already shaking my head. Yes, the South is sooooo much more tribalistic than anywhere else. Ethnic neighborhoods in all major old cities (New York, Boston, Chicago, etc.)? Mehhh. Entire states like Montana having like 17 black people. Mehhhhh. Certain Northern and Western states always 100% of the time vote Democrat en masse. But no, only the Bible Belt is tribalistic.
Click to expand...
I'm simply saying that Tribalism creates prejudice. Prejudice is fear. Fear brings about some of the worst in human behavior, past-present-and future. Now, I am human and I was born and raised in this shit. So, YES I AM TRIBAL. I am doing all I can to remove it from myself.

I never said "only the Bible Belt." I simply stated that the Bible Belt is very tribal. You know why? Because it absolutely is tribal. If you like that it is tribal... that's cool.
 
strummingram said:
I just see the clothes on the racks and in the stores... as well as online. There's absolutely no lack of American Flag-themed clothing available.
Click to expand...

Oh ok. Ya, I don't think anyone doubts that American themed clothing is available. What we were questioning was if anyone actually wore it anymore. I guess you've confirmed that while available, you don't actually see people wearing this stuff anymore. Thanks.
 
Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
Oh ok. Ya, I don't think anyone doubts that American themed clothing is available. What we were questioning was if anyone actually wore it anymore. I guess you've confirmed that while available, you don't actually see people wearing this stuff anymore. Thanks.
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I don't pay attention to their attire, no. I will definitely try to go out of my way-- now-- to keep score and report back.
 
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tarheel0910 said:
I didn't realize you spoke for the south. Good to know.
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I didn't mean I was the spokesman for the South. You knew that.

It's my observation of the South since I have lived my entire life here.

My bad... I forgot that these are no fun when there's any opposition to the OP. Continue to jerk each other off to how to MAGA.
 
strummingram said:
My bad... I forgot that these are no fun when there's any opposition to the OP.
Click to expand...
Several people who posted in this thread disagrees with @TarHeelNation11 to some extent. Don't act like a martyr.

strummingram said:
Continue to jerk each other off to how to MAGA.
Click to expand...
I'm not jerking anyone off, but if anyone wants to do that to themselves using the pics I posted then that's their business.
 
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TarHeelNation11 said:
This is exactly my point (and yes I know you poasted this picture in jest). Being patriotic has turned into a caricature that people mock.
Click to expand...

TarHeelNation11 said:
But is America 1000% better than any other country on earth? You bet your fuggin nuts it is.
Click to expand...

You sound just like the caricature that you’re mad about people mocking.

TarHeelNation11 said:
You're right that it could be overblown by social media since the loudest voices are usually the biggest minorities (minority in viewpoint, not race), but to be clear, I'm not talking like........... Boston Marathon Iranian brothers-level hatred of America. I'm talking like dude in flip flops in [insert college] poli sci class who thinks America sucks and says he wishes he could move to Oslo. He doesn't mean it..... it's just a fad.
Click to expand...

tarheel0910 said:
If you're going to talk about @uncboy10 then go ahead and tag him.
Click to expand...

I’ve gone through a few poli sci courses and they were pretty much all full of conservatives. The types of kids he’s talking about aren’t studying political science or economics, they’re studying French 14th century poetry. They also can be counted on one hand even in those classes.

Good joke though. Except I hate flip flops. It should be punishable by law for men to wear them in public any further than five miles from the beach.
 
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Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
I know exactly what you're talking about. If everyone who ever said "You know, I'd rather live in X, its better than America" actually had to move there, we'd hear it a lot less I'm sure.

I honestly do think it's portrayal by the media and on social media. That's the easy cop out these days, just to blame everything on the media, but I really think that plays a part (not just the MSNBC, CNN, Fox News "media" mind you, but also TV shows, movies, podcasts, etc. that liken American patriotism to uneducated racist redneck gun toting slobs)

I even have found it creeping into my own subconscious bias. I was out boating on a lake over the weekend, and saw some chick in an American flag bikini (smokeshow by the way). Maybe that's still somewhat common in the South - but I couldn't tell you the last time I've seen the American flag bikini up here. I immediately thought to myself - well there's a rare Republican/Trump supporter in this area. All because she was reppin' the flag. I know there are educated liberal minded people out there who are incredibly patriotic, it just seems like American Patriotism has become an issue that has unfortunately been politicized just like Abortion, LGBTQ rights, Gun Control, etc.
Click to expand...

Anyhoo, Hark wins the thread with this one.
 
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UNC71-00 said:
switch "is" with "can be" and we will be able to put this one to bed.
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I don't care if you put it to bed or not.

Prejudice is fear-based. We are wired with a polarity of Love or Fear, just like Hot or Cold. Prejudice is not based in love, Holmes.

Tell me how prejudice is based in Love.
 
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