The death of American patriotism

[strummingram]

Lol maybe Twain should’ve travelled more before he wrote the character “N!gger Jim”

Why? That is what the Jim character was called. He wasn't trying to put Jim down. The context of Niggger Jim is pretty obvious. If he'd traveled more then he would have called him N-Word Jim? It wasn't considered the same kind of knee-jerk pejorative as it is now.

 

[dadika13]

Lol maybe Twain should’ve travelled more before he wrote the character “N!gger Jim”

The point of the novel literally revolves around the way Jim is perceived. Calling him that is historically very accurate for 1840's Missouri.

 

[uncboy10]

Why? That is what the Jim character was called. He wasn't trying to put Jim down. The context of Niggger Jim is pretty obvious. If he'd traveled more then he would have called him N-Word Jim? It wasn't considered the same kind of knee-jerk pejorative as it is now.

It did a great job of illustrating a social criticism, but Twain’s own racism is pretty well documented, particularly towards the indigenous folks he encountered during travels across North America.

Not trying to side track this discussion, I just thought it was a funny quote.

 

[uncboy10]

The point of the novel literally revolves around the way Jim is perceived. Calling him that is historically very accurate for 1840's Missouri.

No doubt. I wasn’t saying that is the proof of his racism. Actually that was him being anti racist, ironically enough. But there is lots of documented evidence (his own words) that show he wasn’t as progressive as he let on.

 

[Raising Heel]

I don't care if you put it to bed or not.

Prejudice is fear-based. We are wired with a polarity of Love or Fear, just like Hot or Cold. Prejudice is not based in love, Holmes.

Tell me how prejudice is based in Love.

I don't know what the hell you're talking about and neither do you. You, of all people, reducing things to black and white? That's quite a strawman you've built.

I have plenty of prejudices that are based on personal interactions and life experiences, not love or hatred. Empirical information, not emotion.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Is that first paragraph a nod to the Always Sunny episode "The Gang Wrestles for the Troops"?

I personally don't think it's anti-American or anti-patriotic to recognize the short comings of our country and want to make them better. I love America as much as the next guy, but there are areas in which America is behind other countries. I'd rather be a citizen of this country more than anywhere else in the world, but there are things we can do to become better.

To me, it's like being a sports fan. I love Carolina as much as anyone, but you'd have to be blindly loyal to believe our football team is the best and has no room to improve. I love the team, I'm at every game in Kenan Stadium, but I want us to be better. There are things we could do to become better. Doesn't mean I don't love the team or want to jump ship to other teams, just viewing it realistically.

JMO on the deal.

America should be like your wife. Yeah, she’s put on a few pounds, and yeah, she spends too much money sometimes but I love her just the way she is. If she drops some weight and starts being more mindful, that’s great. But even if she doesn’t, I support her to the fullest and will go to war with anyone that has something shitty to say about her.

BTW, this is a 5 star thread and I didn’t even read most of the responses.

 

[strummingram]

No doubt. I was saying that is the proof of his racism. Actually that was him being anti racist, ironically enough. But there is lots of documented evidence (his own words) that show he wasn’t as progressive as he let on.

EVERYONE in 1840 was a racist by today's standards.

 

[strummingram]

I don't know what the hell you're talking about and neither do you. You, of all people, reducing things to black and white? That's quite a strawman you've built.

I have plenty of prejudices that are based on personal interactions and life experiences, not love or hatred. Empirical information, not emotion.

Congratulations.

I know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not conveying it as well as I need to convey it.

 

[heelz2345]

America should be like your wife. Yeah, she’s put on a few pounds, and yeah, she spends too much money sometimes but I love her just the way she is. If she drops some weight and starts being more mindful, that’s great. But even if she doesn’t, I support her to the fullest and will go to war with anyone that has something shitty to say about her.

BTW, this is a 5 star thread and I didn’t even read most of the responses.

I thought of going with the wife/girlfriend angle with my choice of metaphor, decided against it, but yeah that's a way to look at it as well.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

It wasn't considered the same kind of knee-jerk pejorative as it is now.

Calling him that is historically very accurate for 1840's Missouri.

Now, now. Both of you know that it's perfectly reasonable to take something that was said a couple hundred years ago when "times were different" and compare it against the standards of today in order to turn the speaker into a pariah. Don't fight it.

 

[strummingram]

Now, now. Both of you know that it's perfectly reasonable to take something that was said a couple hundred years ago when "times were different" and compare it against the standards of today in order to turn the speaker into a pariah. Don't fight it.

I just hope they don't start censoring the books. I just finished watching The Civil War by Ken Burns for the 90th time, and it has "nigggers" scattered all through it (the word, the reference). I wasn't offended by the word. I was never offended by the word. If anything, I'm offended when people SAY "The N Word." I'm not offended as much as it's just an evasion of the word itself... so you make-up a new word to refer to the word.

I'd forgotten that Family Guy even did a parody of "N-Word Jim" until now...

 

[uncboy10]

There’s already someone who’s edited Huck Finn to change Jim’s names. Which wasn’t what I was advocating for. I just thought it was a funny quote considering Twain kept a journal full of very racist observations he made while traveling.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

If anything, I'm offended when people SAY "The N Word." I'm not offended as much as it's just an evasion of the word itself... so you make-up a new word to refer to the word.

Exactly. By doing this, you let the word "win". By bristling and having outrage every time it's uttered, and referring to the word by its initial, you give power to the word and those that use it. If people treated it like calling someone something benign, like tall, it would quickly lose its negative power.

 

[strummingram]

Exactly. By doing this, you let the word "win". By bristling and having outrage every time it's uttered, and referring to the word by its initial, you give power to the word and those that use it. If people treated it like calling someone something benign, like tall, it would quickly lose its negative power.

I'm that way with the word "god-dammit"... I NEVER say it, and if i ever do, it's to mimic someone and I feel uneasy saying it. I hear it somewhat frequently, and I sometimes cringe inside when I hear it, but I know it's not coming from me, so no big deal. In fact, on certain occasions, like when George Carlin says sometimes it in his stand up, it's funny and I wouldn't want to hear it any other way.

 

[dadika13]

There’s already someone who’s edited Huck Finn to change Jim’s names. Which wasn’t what I was advocating for. I just thought it was a funny quote considering Twain kept a journal full of very racist observations he made while traveling.

Yeah, they are pretty wild to read in the context of 2018.

 

[Raising Heel]

Fast forward to the past 5 or so years.

Or 2016:

https://northcarolina.forums.rivals.com/threads/what-happened-to-american-pride.44825/

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Or 2016:

https://northcarolina.forums.rivals.com/threads/what-happened-to-american-pride.44825/

2016 THN11 was a loser.

 

[heelz2345]

Or 2016:

https://northcarolina.forums.rivals.com/threads/what-happened-to-american-pride.44825/

I had three good poasts in that thread. Down the drain since.