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The reality of moving forward...

gary-7

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Jan 27, 2003
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...and yeah, I'm gonna be that guy.

For all the "close to 100%" bravado from Joel before the Arky game, even then his ankle wasn't back to normal. Fortunately it was close enough to get a vintage JB game against the swine.

However, his tweaking of it in that game took its toll as I thought it would... and then he reinjured it Saturday. Truth be known, his favoring of that ankle likely contributed to rolling the other one Sunday. I'm saying all this to give y'all the reality check that no matter what anyone says publicly, we are going the rest of the way with a wounded PG. The only question will be how wounded?

JB was in abject pain Sunday --- couldn't even get back down the ladder without help --- and 5 days and all the therapy in the world ain't gonna totally get him past it. The best we can hope is he gets back to Arky game level and doesn't make it worse in the Semis (in itself an unlikely scenario).

The Oregon game in particular calls for a strong JB. Their match-up Zone is designed to account for shooters, which makes it weak at gap control. In other words it is vulnerable to drives from Guards. Mason made hay driving against it and we'll need the same from Berry. Stress the gaps and force their rim-protector to make decisions. Granted, our Zone-O relies on Wing entries and creating passing angles, but having JB's ability to take it is a big deal, and of course we need his legs under him to knock down 3s.

Overall, I fear a 1977 scenario when Phil Ford toughed it out game after game but was virtually playing on one leg in the Final. We're already down Kenny Williams ---- and although that's not the equivalent of losing the great Tommy LaGarde, it still hurts.

Normally we would be looking at this year's Final 4 and licking our chops. Now, not so much. We've got a battle on our hands. Little Dog is a warrior and played an unbelievable 33 minutes Sunday. Sometime, maybe 4 or 5 weeks from now, that ankle will be back to normal. Meanwhile we just have to hope for the best as well as for other guys to keep stepping up.
 
Well said

Good news is that little dog at 75% is better than most. Praying for rest and improvement of his wheels this week.
...and I'll emphatically add one more thing. It's time to trust Stilman to be JB's backup, and let him run the 1 when he's in. I realize 7th is gonna be here next year, but so is BRob (who has given us a lot more this season) and he's not in the short rotation. This is the FF.
 
I think him just being on the floor was a huge help to the teams mentality. He clearly wasn't 100 % but they just needed his presence on the court in order to win even if he didn't score.
 
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...and I'll emphatically add one more thing. It's time to trust Stilman to be JB's backup, and let him run the 1 when he's in. I realize 7th is gonna be here next year, but so is BRob (who has given us a lot more this season) and he's not in the short rotation. This is the FF.

My issue is Nate getting minutes. He added no value and he looked like a walking turnover.
 
...and I'll emphatically add one more thing. It's time to trust Stilman to be JB's backup, and let him run the 1 when he's in. I realize 7th is gonna be here next year, but so is BRob (who has given us a lot more this season) and he's not in the short rotation. This is the FF.

One thing I loved from Roy yesterday...

With 8 and change he put the starters (plus Luke) in the game and went with those 6 the rest of the way since we had 3 timeouts and 2 TV's coming. We need that same set up next two games. If you're going to save the timeouts til the end, then play your starters knowing you have 5 opportunities to rest them in the final 8 minutes.
 
100% on board with giving the keys to Stilman if JB can't go or needs a blow. He's not the most athletic guy on the floor but he's VERY SOLID in his basketball IQ and decision making and it seems like the team, regardless of who's on the floor, is comfortable with him ! There is no wild ass guessing with what Stilman White is going to do. He runs it just like practice and plays it by the book. Yes .. I have been on the Stilman bandwagon since he played on the '82 championship team :)
 
My issue is Nate getting minutes. He added no value and he looked like a walking turnover.
I want to root for him, like all the Heels players, and still hope / believe he can and will make surprising good plays for us over the next two games. I suppose he was serviceable on defense, and one whistle on him when he turned it over was not a foul.
But I do recall referring to him as The Human Turnover at certain points in both games this weekend.
We could really use a consistent outside shooting threat from him too, with JB being hobbled. But its not showing up magically for him this week.

Maybe he just plateaued his freshman / soph season. Maybe he just couldn't get any better. His attitude has been OK from what I can tell, but I guess I'd like to hear if he put in the summer work (or even a fraction of it) that guys like JJ, JB, Theo, and Luke put in. Not saying he didn't, I just haven't heard about it, and his shooting has actually regressed it seems, and ball handling/passing is the same at best.
 
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My issue is Nate getting minutes. He added no value and he looked like a walking turnover.
In fairness, Nate has done a nice job fitting into the Wing rotation at the 2, especially since KW went down. Undersized though he may be, he does a decent job off the ball. It also mitigates his tendencies of taking the rock into sketchy places when he's at PG, and again in fairness, he's gotten somewhat better at that as well --- which is somethng 7th has not figured out just yet.

Ironically, Nate is a better play-maker when he does not have primary ball-handling responsibilites. He's better at catch-and-create than he is off the bounce. Yesterday Nate was running Point with Stilman on the floor (which made my head hurt), but when Stilman finally got the ball in his hands, good things happened.

I'll tell ya, the part I LOVED (I noticed it live, and Stilman commented on it later) was Fox trying to bully the new guy off the bench and got all up in his sh**, and well, 24 yr-old Stilman took his freshman ass to school, and next thing you know Mr. OAD has 2 fouls and is on the pines. :cool:
 
Roy was asked about Stilman int he post-game PC and he was okay with him, but, he did mention that he lost the ball out-of-bounds, which didn't make him too confident in him.
 
My issue is Nate getting minutes. He added no value and he looked like a walking turnover.

and the team appears to take on a "nervousness" as a whole when he is in there fumbling passes etc

great kid but white brings more to the table however we are not the coach
I see comments where Britt's defense is "great" but man I have a tough time agreeing in the NCAAT so far
 
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Roy was asked about Stilman int he post-game PC and he was okay with him, but, he did mention that he lost the ball out-of-bounds, which didn't make him too confident in him.
It was a joke, and Roy even got the half wrong. And Stilman got slapped hard upside the head by Humphries just as he was trying to gather the loose ball for a lay-up, somethng I'm sure Roy will notice on film.
 
It was a joke, and Roy even got the half wrong. And Stilman got slapped hard upside the head by Humphries just as he was trying to gather the loose ball for a lay-up, somethng I'm sure Roy will notice on film.
I was glad to see Stilman playing.
 
...and I'll emphatically add one more thing. It's time to trust Stilman to be JB's backup, and let him run the 1 when he's in. I realize 7th is gonna be here next year, but so is BRob (who has given us a lot more this season) and he's not in the short rotation. This is the FF.

White should take Nate Mins as well.
 
After a week of downtime, Berry played great against Butler.

Thus, I feel he will have a lights out game against Oregon. The championship game is the one I worry about because it seems 2 games in 3 days is a bit much for his ankles at this point.
 
...and yeah, I'm gonna be that guy.

For all the "close to 100%" bravado from Joel before the Arky game, even then his ankle wasn't back to normal. Fortunately it was close enough to get a vintage JB game against the swine.

I'm saying all this to give y'all the reality check that no matter what anyone says publicly, we are going the rest of the way with a wounded PG. The only question will be how wounded?
.

If they only knew.
 
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It was a joke, and Roy even got the half wrong. And Stilman got slapped hard upside the head by Humphries just as he was trying to gather the loose ball for a lay-up, somethng I'm sure Roy will notice on film.

Yeah stillman got hammered on that play and no call. And not to pile on, but if that play made Roy lose confidence in stillman I have to wonder how he has any confidence at all left in Nate at this point.
 
H just needs to stay off the ankles until Friday's shootaround. There is no tomorrow. A 75% Berry is good enough. Roy will play Seventh, but he will pulled on his first mistake.
 
H just needs to stay off the ankles until Friday's shootaround. There is no tomorrow. A 75% Berry is good enough. Roy will play Seventh, but he will pulled on his first mistake.


I say give him a piss bucket and do treatment on the ankles and on Saturday tape them up good and go with a 3 quarter shoe instead of the low cuts.
 
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Yeah stillman got hammered on that play and no call. And not to pile on, but if that play made Roy lose confidence in stillman I have to wonder how he has any confidence at all left in Nate at this point.
Well, when Roy looks at the film that mitigating factor should become clear. I will say from listening to other comments that I do wish Roy would trust his own professed trust in Stilman, if that makes sense.

I know Roy said he pulled 7th because of the second foul, but I think (hope) there was more to it, i.e. he got burned by bad technique twice in a row on defense. We shall see...
 
That one pass by seventh to Bradley was pretty sick though. He's shown enough glimpses to where I'm pretty excited about seeing where he can develop to.

This isn't the time of year to be hoping for a drastic change over a seasons body of work on a glimpse or glimmer of hope cause Seventh is a crap shoot etime down the floor. I'd just about as soon see Theo running the point as Seventh. Yeah .. that's the ticket .. them long and lengthy ducks would love TP on point with JJ at the 2 and Luke, Hicks and Meeks on the front line. Just hope JB can go.

Now back to doubling down on happy hour and enjoying having dookies around to F with :) .
 
This isn't the time of year to be hoping for a drastic change over a seasons body of work on a glimpse or glimmer of hope cause Seventh is a crap shoot etime down the floor. I'd just about as soon see Theo running the point as Seventh. Yeah .. that's the ticket .. them long and lengthy ducks would love TP on point with JJ at the 2 and Luke, Hicks and Meeks on the front line. Just hope JB can go.

Now back to doubling down on happy hour and enjoying having dookies around to F with :) .

I didn't mean for the final four. I was speaking for next year etc.
 
That one pass by seventh to Bradley was pretty sick though. He's shown enough glimpses to where I'm pretty excited about seeing where he can develop to.

He will take a big leap over the off season.
By mid January 2018 we will see a bigtime guard developing.
 
I say give him a piss bucket and do treatment on the ankles and on Saturday tape them up good and go with a 3 quarter shoe instead of the low cuts.

As a person who had a tendency to sprain my ankles back in the day when playing basketball, I was shocked to see Berry in low tops again when the game started the other day?.....I was like good lord son get some high top tennis shoes if you've got bad ankles, or one that is already sprained....One of the old remedies that I used a long long time ago was to elevate the ankle with Ice, or Frozen Peas are actually better because they conform much better than the Ice....Get the swelling down, and then wrap the elevated ankle with a towel or cloth that is soaked in White Vinegar to help with the soreness....Make sure it's White Vinegar or it might blister your foot....The next day get a girl friend or trainer in this case to massage the ankle....Yeah, it will hurt like hell, but it helps to get the soreness out....Continue to Elevate with Frozen Peas and the Vinegar with a daily massage of the ankle to increase circulation to carry away the damaged tissue, and restore blood flow ....He still will be limited, but this procedure helped me greatly back in the day, and helped a whole lot with the pain and soreness...And purchase some high top tennis shoes for the next game for goodness sake!

Go Tar Heels!
 
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Time for the rest to carry JB on to the Championship.

Hicks is due a monster game, Saturday would do just fine.
Hicks will have his hands full of the big shot blocker for Oregon. Hopefully the refs let them play and not call ticky tacky fouls. If allowed to play I like Hicks to counter his abilities.
 
...and yeah, I'm gonna be that guy.

For all the "close to 100%" bravado from Joel before the Arky game, even then his ankle wasn't back to normal. Fortunately it was close enough to get a vintage JB game against the swine.

However, his tweaking of it in that game took its toll as I thought it would... and then he reinjured it Saturday. Truth be known, his favoring of that ankle likely contributed to rolling the other one Sunday. I'm saying all this to give y'all the reality check that no matter what anyone says publicly, we are going the rest of the way with a wounded PG. The only question will be how wounded?

JB was in abject pain Sunday --- couldn't even get back down the ladder without help --- and 5 days and all the therapy in the world ain't gonna totally get him past it. The best we can hope is he gets back to Arky game level and doesn't make it worse in the Semis (in itself an unlikely scenario).

The Oregon game in particular calls for a strong JB. Their match-up Zone is designed to account for shooters, which makes it weak at gap control. In other words it is vulnerable to drives from Guards. Mason made hay driving against it and we'll need the same from Berry. Stress the gaps and force their rim-protector to make decisions. Granted, our Zone-O relies on Wing entries and creating passing angles, but having JB's ability to take it is a big deal, and of course we need his legs under him to knock down 3s.

Overall, I fear a 1977 scenario when Phil Ford toughed it out game after game but was virtually playing on one leg in the Final. We're already down Kenny Williams ---- and although that's not the equivalent of losing the great Tommy LaGarde, it still hurts.

Normally we would be looking at this year's Final 4 and licking our chops. Now, not so much. We've got a battle on our hands. Little Dog is a warrior and played an unbelievable 33 minutes Sunday. Sometime, maybe 4 or 5 weeks from now, that ankle will be back to normal. Meanwhile we just have to hope for the best as well as for other guys to keep stepping up.
Two things. Thanks for severely cramping my confidence for next weekend. As for Stilman, he should be getting half of Nate's minutes. Period.
 
Hicks will have his hands full of the big shot blocker for Oregon. Hopefully the refs let them play and not call ticky tacky fouls. If allowed to play I like Hicks to counter his abilities.

need him to occupy their big so meeks is not saddled with him - get him in foul trouble early would be the best strategy
 
...and yeah, I'm gonna be that guy.

For all the "close to 100%" bravado from Joel before the Arky game, even then his ankle wasn't back to normal. Fortunately it was close enough to get a vintage JB game against the swine.

However, his tweaking of it in that game took its toll as I thought it would... and then he reinjured it Saturday. Truth be known, his favoring of that ankle likely contributed to rolling the other one Sunday. I'm saying all this to give y'all the reality check that no matter what anyone says publicly, we are going the rest of the way with a wounded PG. The only question will be how wounded?

JB was in abject pain Sunday --- couldn't even get back down the ladder without help --- and 5 days and all the therapy in the world ain't gonna totally get him past it. The best we can hope is he gets back to Arky game level and doesn't make it worse in the Semis (in itself an unlikely scenario).

The Oregon game in particular calls for a strong JB. Their match-up Zone is designed to account for shooters, which makes it weak at gap control. In other words it is vulnerable to drives from Guards. Mason made hay driving against it and we'll need the same from Berry. Stress the gaps and force their rim-protector to make decisions. Granted, our Zone-O relies on Wing entries and creating passing angles, but having JB's ability to take it is a big deal, and of course we need his legs under him to knock down 3s.

Overall, I fear a 1977 scenario when Phil Ford toughed it out game after game but was virtually playing on one leg in the Final. We're already down Kenny Williams ---- and although that's not the equivalent of losing the great Tommy LaGarde, it still hurts.

Normally we would be looking at this year's Final 4 and licking our chops. Now, not so much. We've got a battle on our hands. Little Dog is a warrior and played an unbelievable 33 minutes Sunday. Sometime, maybe 4 or 5 weeks from now, that ankle will be back to normal. Meanwhile we just have to hope for the best as well as for other guys to keep stepping up.

I agree completely. Also agree Stillman should get Sventh's minutes in most cases, and even be taking time from Britt. Do remember though Oregon is down Boucher, and he is a much bigger loss than Kenny. I think we are getting a very fair shake against everyone except maybe a healthy Gonzaga. They are damn good. Rest up Joel.
 
Two things. Thanks for severely cramping my confidence for next weekend. As for Stilman, he should be getting half of Nate's minutes. Period.
Sorry. :oops:
Hey... If we were healthy I would be every bit as confident as I was in 09 (and that's saying something!). For all the nay-sayers and doubters even amongst our own, we were a step above everybody else this season... when healthy. Unfortunately, we're not, and we haven't really had a full roster all season.

And even when we are the one thing that can bring down a Carolina team is a PG injury... and this time we don't have a Bobby Frasor to come to the rescue. The one guy who might could play that role in a pinch would be Stilman... but JB is a very special player and the most indispensible guy on the team.

These guys have heart and guts and dog is as tough as they come. Lessee if we can pull it off.
 
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Didn't want to start a separate thread so I'll leave this here. From Roy Williams Live:

Roy Williams knew the moment would come, he just never knew when. With five minutes left in UNC’s regional final matchup with Kentucky, and his Tar Heels trailing 64-59, Williams called a timeout, gathered his team together and told them they were switching to zone defense.

“I keep thinking we’re going to need to do it,” Williams said on his final radio show of the season on Monday night. “So if you go back and look at our practice plans for the last three weeks, probably 50 to 60 percent of the time we’re working on zone.”

The change proved effective, as UNC’s defense created two defensive stops out of the timeout which led to consecutive buckets from Theo Pinson and Justin Jackson. On the following possession, with the lead cut down to one, the Tar Heel defense made arguably its biggest play of the game.

Kentucky guard De’Aaron Fox fed the ball down low to Bam Adebayo, who was sandwiched between a closing Luke Maye and Kennedy Meeks. The 6-foot-10 senior swatted Adebayo’s dunk attempt from behind and Pinson scooped up the ball to start the fast break. He was subsequently fouled on a dunk attempt. Pinson converted both foul shots to give UNC a 66-65 lead, and John Calipari subbed in Derek Willis and Dominique Hawkins, both of whom can knock down perimeter shots.

“All of the sudden they had four 3-point shooters (on the floor),” Williams said. “I turned around to the bench and said ‘now that’s enough, let's go back to man.’” One minute and 41 seconds. That’s how long Williams leaned on his zone defense, but the 6-0 spark it provided en route to a 75-73 win saved the Tar Heels’ season.

Regarding Joel:

Will Joel Berry be rehabbing this week?
“Yeah he started it today. He had treatment this morning, had treatment this afternoon, was in the pool at about four o’clock this afternoon. He’ll get treatment two or three hours everyday and I’m hopeful that by the time Thursday gets here he might be able to practice. But it’s a scary thing for us, no question.”

Regarding Luuuuuuuuuuke:

“I told his dad seven or eight years ago when he was in camp, ‘just don’t be in a hurry because I think he’s going to be good enough.’ I kept feeling that way and last Spring in my office he said, ‘Coach, nobody is going to work harder in the offseason than I’m going to work.’ I trusted him and I believed in him and I’m hopeful this success he’s having now will make him feel that way again this offseason.”
 
We all want every one of our players to be successful. But the success of the team is the most important consideration on the court. Nate is what he is, a valuable role player who has been an exemplary representative of our university. He has made big plays for us in the past and I imagine he will make some for us down the stretch.

TBS, Stilman is so poised on the court, I would like to see more of him. I think many of us would. And I see nothing wrong with people pointing out the fact that they feel more comfortable with Stilman in the game, especially at the end of games, than they do 7th or Nate.

Nate's a man. He has confidence in his abilities or he wouldn't be where he is, doing what he does. The staff and the players have confidence in him as well. I'm sure that he takes everything written on message boards with a big grain of salt, if he reads them at all.

My point is that Stilman epitomizes poise. He doesn't make spectacular plays but he doesn't make silly mistakes either. And I feel confident in his ability to knock down big FT's if necessary. Despite a smaller sample size, Stilman's stats seem to justify that confidence. I think we're going to need both in the FF, perhaps more than usual due to Joel's ankles. I hope both do well.
 
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