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This whole...

Agree. Problem is I'm sure certain coaches are promising him a wing spot, wouldn't put that by Sean Miller or Cal.

PJ is that George lynch type of power forward, not that he is a poor mid range jump shooter but that isn't the strength of his game. Those kids, Knox as example, that say they do not want to be defined by a position are actually saying they want to play a position outside more so than inside, that their face up game is a strength and feel they can step out beyond the arch and hit treys. They want to be able to have the green light to do that, they consider if they are listed as a power forward they will not have that green light to step outside and jump shoot.

As you may recall about Lynch, he was pretty much a 15ft and in shooter but played with that really high motor and didn't mind contact at all, seemed to enjoy contact. That is not a bad description of PJ, he will battle you and not back down. He has a nice wing span however, think it is like 7'1" or so, maybe a bit Theo like in some good ways.
 
I felt Luke played well for being a walk on freshman last season and I can agree that he will be a solid rotation player but I am thinking that may be more his Jr season thou he will get much more PT this coming season than last and maybe more than we expect. Luke does have the ability to step out and hit jump shots well past the trey arch and we have not had many power forwards that could do that consistently.

The largest concern I have for Luke is he is pretty much another under the rim power forward in a game that is played much of the time above the rim. I am always going to worry with front court guys that are under the rim players and will always feel better when we have guys able to play above the cylinder. He has been well taught, does a great job blocking out and positioning himself to be able to get rebounds.

When I saw Hicks as a UNC freshman, he was unimpressive, he is a key for us next season. Joel Berry did not start a single game for us as a freshman and got relatively little PT and yet he may be the most important guy on next years team. Don't judge their career by their freshman season only, it has been a long while since we had a freshman come in and have a great 1st season with us.
 
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When I saw Hicks as a UNC freshman, he was unimpressive, he is a key for us next season. Joel Berry did not start a single game for us as a freshman and got relatively little PT and yet he may be the most important guy on next years team. Don't judge their career by their freshman season only, it has been a long while since we had a freshman come in and have a great 1st season with us.

Comparing Luke to Hicks isn't fair to either of them. Hicks was a very highly rated recruit that you could see was just raw. Watching him freshman year I thought if he ever gets it he will be very good. Last year, it clicked. At no point last year did I see the potential for Luke to become anywhere near Hicks talent level. Just going on what these two well trained eyes have seen.
 
Comparing Luke to Hicks isn't fair to either of them. Hicks was a very highly rated recruit that you could see was just raw. Watching him freshman year I thought if he ever gets it he will be very good. Last year, it clicked. At no point last year did I see the potential for Luke to become anywhere near Hicks talent level. Just going on what these two well trained eyes have seen.

All I said was Luke didn't blow us away as a frosh and shared a couple others that didn't either. I am not ready to give up on his ability, especially when he does have an ability to jump shoot that has been very rare for us in front court players.

Luke strikes me like a couple of those Tony Bennett big men he seems to get for UVa, not overly athletic but play smart and can step way outside and burn you if you don't stay on him. A guy that can do that can help us, can help us a lot. The question is can he do that consistently and can he guard on the other end enough to not give back when he gives us in offense.
 
"Well trained eyes" probably don't care about things like this, but even though a Freshman Luke was our second most efficient rebounder trailing ONLY Brice Johnson. More rebounds per minute played than Hicks, a Junior. More rebounds per minutes played than Meeks, also a Junior. Hicks as a freshman was a trainwreck compared to his ratings, and no great shakes as a Soph either. Maye had more total boards as a Freshman than did Hicks. 19 more, in 71 minutes LESS total Freshman game time. Let's give Luke a little time to shine before bagging on him.
 
"Well trained eyes" probably don't care about things like this, but even though a Freshman Luke was our second most efficient rebounder trailing ONLY Brice Johnson. More rebounds per minute played than Hicks, a Junior. More rebounds per minutes played than Meeks, also a Junior. Hicks as a freshman was a trainwreck compared to his ratings, and no great shakes as a Soph either. Maye had more total boards as a Freshman than did Hicks. 19 more, in 71 minutes LESS total Freshman game time. Let's give Luke a little time to shine before bagging on him.

What I'm saying is Hicks had the pedigree and raw attributes that when you WATCHED him play, you saw it. Luke has none of that.

And as for stats:

He had 55 rebounds in 33 games dude. 17 of them coming against Woffard, Tulane, App St, and NC Greens. My entire argument is and always has been that Maye cannot play at ACC level yet. In ACC/NCAA games, 26 rebounds in 20 games.

Sorry if I'm not going to crown him Bill Russell quite yet.
 
But it never hurts to have a kind word for one of our own either.

You know I'm more for the realistic route :)

Listen, I think he's a really good kid and I really do think he'll develop into a decent role player for his Jr./Sr. year. I think of a Jackson Simmons, Joel James type. Which is fine.

What I don't agree with is the notion that we are going to win a ton of games with him getting major minutes next season from what I saw in 33 games last season. When someone says otherwise it makes us look uneducated and overly bias as a fan base.
 
Not sure who saw him getting "major minutes" but that will only happen if, God Forbid, the injury big hits. LOVE having role players who were dying to be Tar Heels. And he does have some skills.
 
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What I'm saying is Hicks had the pedigree and raw attributes that when you WATCHED him play, you saw it. Luke has none of that.

And as for stats:

He had 55 rebounds in 33 games dude. 17 of them coming against Woffard, Tulane, App St, and NC Greens. My entire argument is and always has been that Maye cannot play at ACC level yet. In ACC/NCAA games, 26 rebounds in 20 games.

Sorry if I'm not going to crown him Bill Russell quite yet.
BIG gap between crowning someone Bill Russell and saying he can't play on an ACC level... and I can tell you for a fact that our current and former players vehemently disgree with you on the latter.
 
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BIG gap between crowning someone Bill Russell and saying he can't play on an ACC level... and I can tell you for a fact that our current and former players vehemently disgree with you on the latter.

So you're saying he didn't look overwhelmed during ACC and NCAA tournament play? We must have been watching two different guys last season.
 
So you're saying he didn't look overwhelmed during ACC and NCAA tournament play? We must have been watching two different guys last season.

I would agree with your point if Luke were a Jr or Sr, but he was a freshman! Being overwhelmed in ACC and NCAA play as a freshman is nothing new for us. Brice, Hicks, Meeks, were all overwhelmed as freshmen in ACC and NCAA play. Sure, it is easy to say but I saw this or that in them as freshmen that I do not see in Luke, that is much easier to say now that they have developed in to key players. But the story was much different when those other kids were going thru their own freshman seasons. Brice was to skinny, Meeks to fat, and Hicks to scared, it was as if all needed to visit Oz and ask the Wizard for something.

We fans can be a special bunch, we get a commit from a kid and build up these crazy expectations for him and once we get him and reality sets in we go the opposite direction and tear him down and give up on him. Yes Luke has a high bar to over come and I am not gonna lie, I am not sold that he can advance to the point he will be a key player for us, next season or after. But that does not mean he can't, just means it is not going to be easy for him. It won't because he is a under sized 4 with average reach and limited vertical and he will have to over come that. Can he do that, yes, others have but it will not be easy and I am not expecting it, at least not expecting he is there right now. But that does not mean I do not think he can get there, so I am not giving up on him. I would rather be happy surprised because I expected to little than disappointed because I expected to much.
 
Luke is a Tar Heel. He is a fairly smart young man. Good basketball player. Won't be stunning anyone with freakish athletics but then he's not supposed to do that type of thing. What he will do as a soph, jr or sr will be, IMO, to lend a steady hand. Fill in where needed and not make silly mistakes.
 
Not sure why this has become a discussion of Luke, but I think the obvious comparison is with Jackson Simmons. Jackson came to us with good fundamentals, great motor, but undersized and without an outside shot. He outright won at least 1 game for us (FSU), and was instrumental in winning or holding on to several more during his career.

Luke may be able to surpass Jackson because he also may develop a good outside shot and his passing has promise. Time will tell.

Some players make you cringe when they come in, early in their career. Joel James. Desmond Hubert. Even JP if foul shooting might be happening. I don't feel that way about Luke. No, he isn't good enough (yet) to deserve a lot of minutes. But I don't cringe when he comes in. He'll give us a couple of good minutes at a time. Like Jackson Simmons, he may be outplayed by better opponents, but he won't screw things up.
 
Nailed it. Program players are the lifeblood, not elites. Carolina is what it is because of players like those you listed. When Blue Steel is good enough to play in the middle of the game (when Roy wants to prove a point to his rotation guys) that's when we're at our best.
 
So you're saying he didn't look overwhelmed during ACC and NCAA tournament play? We must have been watching two different guys last season.
Nope. Never looked overwhelmed. Had his freshman issues we all saw but gave positive contributions. And the issues (mostly finishing plays) are nothing some experience and confidence can't cure. And I will tell you he has been one of the main topics of conversation within and around the team this Summer for stepping up his game. Obviously we'll have to wait and see how it transfers to next season.

Luke obviously will never be a gazelle or an explosive leaper, BUT he is big and strong and highly coordinated, knows how to create space for rebounds (hopefully that skill will translate into more consistent finishing inside as well) and, the guys on the team will tell you, is a legit 3-point threat which gives him a face-up stretch dimension. He's gonna get major minutes this season and I feel confident we're gonna be pleased with most of them.
 
Nope. Never looked overwhelmed.

He's gonna get major minutes this season and I feel confident we're gonna be pleased with most of them.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree on these two points.
 
What I'm saying is Hicks had the pedigree and raw attributes that when you WATCHED him play, you saw it. Luke has none of that.

And as for stats:

He had 55 rebounds in 33 games dude. 17 of them coming against Woffard, Tulane, App St, and NC Greens. My entire argument is and always has been that Maye cannot play at ACC level yet. In ACC/NCAA games, 26 rebounds in 20 games.

Sorry if I'm not going to crown him Bill Russell quite yet.

No one is asking you to crown him anything. I just think you are throwing him under the bus a little early in his career. Hicks played against lesser competition as a Frosh as well, and got more minutes, yet produced less rebounds than did Luke as a Freshman. Hicks and Meeks played against some weaker competition this year too, yet still produced less rebounds per minute played than Luke. I haven't done a game by game breakdown, and don't plan to either. But Maye was pretty much "an instant rebound" in almost every game I saw him play last season.
 
Let's also not forget, the kid chose to walk on here over a scholarship elsewhere. We need to be thankful for whatever he contributes. The fact that he's already in the mix as a freshman behind Brice, Meeks, Hicks, and James?... He's ahead of schedule.

BINGO!
 
But Maye was pretty much "an instant rebound" in almost every game I saw him play last season.

Please, just stop. 26 rebounds in 20 ACC/NCAA games and you're calling him "an instant rebound?"

He's a great young man that loves being a Tar Heel who will develop into a role player for a few min Jr/Sr year. Let's just leave it there and move on.
 
Please, just stop. 26 rebounds in 20 ACC/NCAA games and you're calling him "an instant rebound?"

He's a great young man that loves being a Tar Heel who will develop into a role player for a few min Jr/Sr year. Let's just leave it there and move on.

He's our 4th big man this upcoming season. He's already a role player.
 
Luke Maye:

33 Games
55 Rebounds
5.4 Minutes/game
1.7 Rebounds/game
Rebounds per 40 minutes = 12.4
Therefore,
INSTANT REBOUND!

If we're doing per 40 min rebounds per game then every bench player above 6'8 in the NBA is a HOFer. He played only 4.3 minutes in ACC/NCAA play. Roy knows more than we do.
 
Please, just stop. 26 rebounds in 20 ACC/NCAA games and you're calling him "an instant rebound?"

He's a great young man that loves being a Tar Heel who will develop into a role player for a few min Jr/Sr year. Let's just leave it there and move on.


You have blinders on. It's not the number of rebounds or games that matters here, it is the number of rebounds per minute played. And he was second on our team that was 4 points short of a Natty last season. Luke was more productive per minute played wrt rebounding than Hicks and Meeks. And also more productive rebounding per minute played than every one else not named Brice Johnson. He was a better, more effective rebounder as a Frosh than was the far more highly rated Hicks. Can't help that you don't like that and try to minimize it - These are facts, not opinions.

I am not claiming Luke will be a world beater, just that you are selling him too short, too quickly. Now you feel free to move on.;)
 
You have blinders on. It's not the number of rebounds or games that matters here, it is the number of rebounds per minute played. And he was second on our team that was 4 points short of a Natty last season. Luke was more productive per minute played wrt rebounding than Hicks and Meeks. And also more productive rebounding per minute played than every one else not named Brice Johnson. He was a better, more effective rebounder as a Frosh than was the far more highly rated Hicks. Can't help that you don't like that and try to minimize it - These are facts, not opinions.

I am not claiming Luke will be a world beater, just that you are selling him too short, too quickly. Now you feel free to move on.;)

So you think Thomas Robinson, Clint Capela, Dewayne Dedmon, and Cole Aldrich are four of the best rebounders in the NBA?

Come on man...per minute means nothing when a guy is playing 1/8th of the game.
 
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So you think Thomas Robinson, Clint Capela, Dewayne Dedmon, and Cole Aldrich are four of the best reboundeMayen the NBA?

Come on man...per minute means nothing when a guy is playing 1/8th of the game.
Its at the very least evidence and reason to believe that the guy could handle more minutes and still be productive. I'm pretty sure that's all anyone here is looking for from Maye.

So you don't like the guy...fine. Just don't be surprised when he plays more and more every year. His trial as a freshman has more than qualified him for a shot at an increased role. I bet he grabs it. With Hicks' foul trouble, Meeks' unfortunate injury plague, and Bradley's inevitable freshman moments, Luke Maye's 5-10 minutes a game should be pretty important.
 
Wow. You're blind, and you can't see; you need some glasses like DMC!

Per minute is everything to a role player. It measures their effectiveness in short stints which is all they get.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch....Roy is handing out some interesting offers, let's discuss them!

He clearly sees a different picture on the recruiting trail than many.
 
So you think Thomas Robinson, Clint Capela, Dewayne Dedmon, and Cole Aldrich are four of the best rebounders in the NBA?

Come on man...per minute means nothing when a guy is playing 1/8th of the game.

http://www.thedreamshake.com/2016/6...ets-capela-is-ready-to-play-in-dwight-s-stead

Cole Aldrich is 6'11" and a pretty darn good rebounder.

Thomas Robinson 6'10" also very strong rebounder.

http://www.todaysfastbreak.com/nba-west/san-antonio-spurs/dewayne-dedmon-will-help-spurs-think/

These guys don't really aid your argument. They are all young and may never be superstars but they are all very good at rebounding.
 
I don't think anyone would argue that Luke does anything but represent the program well, good kid we can all agree. I think we can all as well agree, as walk ons go, Luke is a super version of a walk on, very high quality walk on. But still he is a walk on player that you love to have but this is UNC and if a Luke Maye ends up as a starter for us I think we can all agree it is not a comforting thought, at least for now, at least until we can see him play at a higher level than we have seen so far.

I mean we can argue per minute stats on one end and counter with Jackson Simmons (who I liked as a walk on for us) on the other end but at the end of the day we can agree he should be a fine role player but the thought of him as not just a starter but a starter with little to if any back up is a scary thing to consider.
 
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LM is a walk-on role player who may earn a few more minutes, but as much as I love him, there is no point in discussing him as a full time starter. It will not happen. Roy is hot on the trail and will get what we need just like he always does! And LM will continue to provide a spark, including instant rebounds, from the bench.
 
Stats per minute played can be a decent metric, but it can also be one of the dumbest. If Blue Steel comes in with a minute to go and some guy grabs a rebound and drains a 3 in garbage time... do we anoint him Naismith POY cuz he's now averaging 120pts 40 rebs per 40 minutes?

I realize Luke played in more than just garbage time, but a lot of his time was when the outcome was already decided. Hopefully he makes decent strides at improvement this year - and as others have said, I'm glad he's a Tar Heel. We could still be a decent team with him playing major minutes at the 4 - but if we want to be elite we need to get some better talent.
 
Much like Joel James, I see Luke giving solid minutes off the bench. He won't make very many amazing plays but he won't hurt the team either, his contributions will be positive. And like big Joel, he will be an exemplary teammate, providing encouragement and inspiration for his mates. And by the time he's a senior, he will actually contribute considerably more statistically than Joel did his senior year, IMO.
 
He is not Blue Steel so it doesn't apply. He averaged almost 6 min. Per game and came in at all times, not just garbage. Nobody said he could get double digit rebounds, we said he could give a good contribution when he gets in and the stats per minute prove this . I would think anyone watching the game would have already seen his impact.

Anyway I'd rather discuss recruiting since He will get significant minutes next year no matter what peeps say.
 
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