Trump & Hillary

[strummingram]

Strum, what may be hopeless is trying to explain to you that there is a difference between the deficit and the national debt. Balancing the budget has to do with not borrowing to finance the current annual expenditure and so eliminating the deficit.

Take a step back and get a handle on that. The deficit and the debt are 2 different things.

Yes, I KNOW that. The figure of 18 trillion in DEBT is where this started. You can switch it to the deficit now, since the debt is never going away. And, refusing to acknowledge the insidious aspect of the Fed makes deficit talk just a distraction. The deficit is also NEVER going to be reversed because politicians fight for whomever paid for them- Republicans and Democrats alike. Together, they overspend, and always will. You'll just fight over which one spends more.

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

Strum, what may be hopeless is trying to explain to you that there is a difference between the deficit and the national debt. Balancing the budget has to do with not borrowing to finance the current annual expenditure and so eliminating the deficit.

Take a step back and get a handle on that. The deficit and the debt are 2 different things.

No, he is absolutely correct. I looked at the graph either you or Archer posted in that link and then I decided to find other links with that information and lo and behold there are several with slightly different results, depending on which side you look at. The one neutral site had several with different charts showing other ways to look at it and that consider several other things that cause the data to show slightly higher or lower and obviously if you are on the right and have a website, you are going to go with the data that shows the left causing the problems and vice versa.

Strum is 100% correct in stating the DEBT WILL NEVER, EVER GO DOWN because you know why????? IT CANNOT EVER GO DOWN. I doubt we could take every extremely wealthy man/woman's money, combine it allllllll together and still get it down because whatever minute amount it would go down, within weeks it would be trailing right back up again, defeating the whole purpose.

The national debt or GDP should never even come into play when discussion presidents because that is just a null point. We could stop the war, pull out the military completely and do away with it, take all the billionaire's money, take every penny from wall street, and pay 100% taxes, it will NOT go down. PERIOD!

AND @HeelFan58 THAT is why I rely on Strum so much. He does know what he is talking about! We both learned a lot from Ron Paul apparently! (He more than I, of course lol)

 

[randman1]

No, he is absolutely correct. I looked at the graph either you or Archer posted in that link and then I decided to find other links with that information and lo and behold there are several with slightly different results, depending on which side you look at. The one neutral site had several with different charts showing other ways to look at it and that consider several other things that cause the data to show slightly higher or lower and obviously if you are on the right and have a website, you are going to go with the data that shows the left causing the problems and vice versa.

Strum is 100% correct in stating the DEBT WILL NEVER, EVER GO DOWN because you know why????? IT CANNOT EVER GO DOWN. I doubt we could take every extremely wealthy man/woman's money, combine it allllllll together and still get it down because whatever minute amount it would go down, within weeks it would be trailing right back up again, defeating the whole purpose.

The national debt or GDP should never even come into play when discussion presidents because that is just a null point. We could stop the war, pull out the military completely and do away with it, take all the billionaire's money, take every penny from wall street, and pay 100% taxes, it will NOT go down. PERIOD!

AND @HeelFan58 THAT is why I rely on Strum so much. He does know what he is talking about! We both learned a lot from Ron Paul apparently! (He more than I, of course lol)

Wrong. It may or may not go down but that's solely due to whether we keep increasing it via deficit spending.

Why is that so hard for you and Strum to grasp?

If you don't borrow more, the principal stays the same provided you pay the interest. As GDP grows but the debt stays the same, the percentage of debt relative to GDP goes down.
If you actually slowly monetize it, then you can eliminate it altogether.
This isn't rocket science. I assume you at least graduated middle school.

 

[randman1]

Yes, I KNOW that. The figure of 18 trillion in DEBT is where this started. You can switch it to the deficit now, since the debt is never going away. And, refusing to acknowledge the insidious aspect of the Fed makes deficit talk just a distraction. The deficit is also NEVER going to be reversed because politicians fight for whomever paid for them- Republicans and Democrats alike. Together, they overspend, and always will. You'll just fight over which one spends more.

You do know? You don't sound like it. The fact of the matter is we can balance the budget. You hit on the problem of politicians but the truth is that's a matter of political will. We can balance the budget.

If we do that, do you agree the national debt would no longer increase?

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

You do know? You don't sound like it. The fact of the matter is we can balance the budget. You hit on the problem of politicians but the truth is that's a matter of political will. We can balance the budget.

If we do that, do you agree the national debt would no longer increase?

Oh dear lord. Balancing the budget and the national debt are two different things and one does not effect the other. We went to college, thanks.

 

[strummingram]

You do know? You don't sound like it. The fact of the matter is we can balance the budget. You hit on the problem of politicians but the truth is that's a matter of political will. We can balance the budget.

If we do that, do you agree the national debt would no longer increase?

The national debt can only increase. It's not debatable.

You're ignoring the reality of the entire monetary structure and system. I offered very simple examples that explain it where a 5-year-old can understand.

 

[randman1]

The national debt can only increase. It's not debatable.

You're ignoring the reality of the entire monetary structure and system. I offered very simple examples that explain it where a 5-year-old can understand.

Not debatable, eh? I am ignoring nothing, and you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. I probably have been talking about the FED and everything you think you know since before you were born.
You sound like an idiot.

You offered no examples actually, and seemed to confuse the deficit with the debt. If you balance the budget and pay all the interest payments, the debt no longer increases. That's a fact.

The FED CANNOT BY ITSELF create more debt for the US government. Congress has to authorize the spending.

And I am not defending the FED. I am just trying to tell you the most basic, simplest thing about how the debt increases. it increases due to deficit spending.

 

[strummingram]

Not debatable, eh? I am ignoring nothing, and you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. I probably have been talking about the FED and everything you think you know since before you were born.
You sound like an idiot.

You offered no examples actually, and seemed to confuse the deficit with the debt. If you balance the budget and pay all the interest payments, the debt no longer increases. That's a fact.

The FED CANNOT BY ITSELF create more debt for the US government. Congress has to authorize the spending.

And I am not defending the FED. I am just trying to tell you the most basic, simplest thing about how the debt increases. it increases due to deficit spending.

Perfect...

Good luck.

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

Not debatable, eh? I am ignoring nothing, and you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. I probably have been talking about the FED and everything you think you know since before you were born.
You sound like an idiot.

You offered no examples actually, and seemed to confuse the deficit with the debt. If you balance the budget and pay all the interest payments, the debt no longer increases. That's a fact.

The FED CANNOT BY ITSELF create more debt for the US government. Congress has to authorize the spending.

And I am not defending the FED. I am just trying to tell you the most basic, simplest thing about how the debt increases. it increases due to deficit spending.

The FED is not connected directly to what Congress decides what to spend on though.

The FED causes unpayable debt and that's not spending it's just increasing debt on essentially nonexistent money.

 

[randman1]

The FED is not connected directly to what Congress decides what to spend on though.

The FED causes unpayable debt and that's not spending it's just increasing debt on essentially nonexistent money.

What kind of word salad is this?

Really?

 

[strummingram]

What kind of word salad is this?

Really?

I hope Donald Trump wins and, then in a year or two, when the debt has risen exponentially from the interest, maybe you'll have a new excuse.

By the way, being at war 24/7, for the last 15 years isn't going to help the debt, or the deficit either.

That debt will only grow. I will bet you ANY amount of money you wish to wager on that. And, I will also bet that same amount that the members of the US Government have NO intention of balancing any budget, removing any deficit, or reversing any debt. Democrats and Republicans are all spenders and they both grow government along the way. Donald Trump isn't changing any of that either.

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

What kind of word salad is this?

Really?

Look it up then. Don't take my word for it.

 

[randman1]

The FED is not connected directly to what Congress decides what to spend on though.

The FED causes unpayable debt and that's not spending it's just increasing debt on essentially nonexistent money.

How does the FED cause "unplayable debt"? And yes, it comes off as word salad.

The FED does not cause the debt. Congress does. The Treasury department issues the debt instruments, not the FED.

 

[strummingram]

How does the FED cause "unplayable debt"? And yes, it comes off as word salad.

The FED does not cause the debt. Congress does. The Treasury department issues the debt instruments, not the FED.

They obviously work in collusion. Congress allowed it and Congress keeps it in place. It's a brilliant plan if you're on the receiving end of it.

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

How does the FED cause "unplayable debt"? And yes, it comes off as word salad.

The FED does not cause the debt. Congress does. The Treasury department issues the debt instruments, not the FED.

UnPAYable. It can never be paid off

 

[randman1]

UnPAYable. It can never be paid off

Why not? And just try to answer in your own words showing you actually have some clue on what the process is, please.

 

[Archer2]

You offered no examples actually, and seemed to confuse the deficit with the debt. If you balance the budget and pay all the interest payments, the debt no longer increases. That's a fact.

The FED CANNOT BY ITSELF create more debt for the US government. Congress has to authorize the spending.

And I am not defending the FED. I am just trying to tell you the most basic, simplest thing about how the debt increases. it increases due to deficit spending.

Just give up Randman. If they're so blind that they can't understand those two very simple facts, it's impossible to intelligently discuss economics with them.

Strum is the ultimate conspiracy theory guy, about absolutely everything. And Chick is his lone sycophant.

 

[strummingram]

Just give up Randman. If they're so blind that they can't understand those two very simple facts, it's impossible to intelligently discuss economics with them.

Strum is the ultimate conspiracy theory guy, about absolutely everything. And Chick is his lone sycophant.

The Fed is a conspiracy theory? lol Hardly.

Do you actually say the word sycophant in regular conversation, or do you just use those pretty words on here for affect?

 

[UNC71-00]

The Fed is a conspiracy theory? lol Hardly.

Do you actually say the word sycophant in regular conversation, or do you just use those pretty words on here for affect?

*effect

 

[Archer2]

The Fed is a conspiracy theory? lol Hardly.

Do you actually say the word sycophant in regular conversation, or do you just use those pretty words on here for affect?

For anyone who graduated college, sycophant shouldn't be too difficult for you. Would you prefer toady or yes man?

 

[UNC71-00]

They obviously work in collusion. Congress allowed it and Congress keeps it in place. It's a brilliant plan if you're on the receiving end of it.

Doesn't this mean that Congress has the Fed on a leash? If Congress allows and Congress keeps under control, then it seems to me Congress is to blame.

 

[strummingram]

Doesn't this mean that Congress has the Fed on a leash? If Congress allows and Congress keeps under control, then it seems to me Congress is to blame.

Who has the money? Who controls the money? The Fed is answerable to no one. The Fed has never been audited. If you trust that Congress controls the Fed, be my guest. I'm just pointing out how the currency is worthless and the debt is never able to paid. The interest is never put into the system. When your entire currency and monetary system is literally backed by monetized debt, then the notion of paying off the debt is complete nonsense. I don't care what party is in power and how they spend or don't spend. The whole thing is built on debt... period.

I didn't really want this wonderful Trump/Hillary thread to go into a Fed hijack. When Heelfan58 tried to pin the 18 trillion debt on Obama, that's where I had to intervene. That figure is hardly the work of Barack Obama, by himself! Using "We're 18 trillion in debt" as some leverage or scare tactic/talking point to push your party allegiance is bullshit. It's a lie. The debt is insurmountable and can never be reversed as long as the Fed is in place. It's mathematically impossible.

 

[strummingram]

For anyone who graduated college, sycophant shouldn't be too difficult for you. Would you prefer toady or yes man?

I never graduated college and I know exactly what the word is and means. I know lots of 50-cent words. I'm like Trump- "I know all the good words." I also know how to spot when people use words on here in order to appear to be smarter than they really are. It's entertaining.

 

[Archer2]

I never graduated college and I know exactly what the word is and means. I know lots of 50-cent words. I'm like Trump- "I know all the good words." I also know how to spot when people use words on here in order to appear to be smarter than they really are. It's entertaining.

I didn't realize a common 3 syllable word would have such an effect on you. Glad I was able to so easily entertain you. It's interesting to know you're an expert on Psychology too. Very impressive.

I think we can reduce the national debt, you don't. Once again, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[strummingram]

I didn't realize a common 3 syllable word would have such an effect on you. Glad I was able to so easily entertain you. It's interesting to know you're an expert on Psychology too. Very impressive.

I think we can reduce the national debt, you don't. Once again, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

The number of syllables is irrelevant (see, that was 4 syllables, and commonly used). Sycophant is not.

You're right. If we just get rid of Democrats and Liberals, then Republicans and Conservatives can do everything "the right way." Put that in reverse for partisans of the alleged opposite side. I have shown you, using many examples, how it is absolutely, completely irreversible. But, I realize that throws a wet blanket on the "Left vs. Right" prick-waving contest. Please, accept my apologies for interrupting...

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

*effect

 

[gunslingerdick]

 

[randman1]

Just give up Randman. If they're so blind that they can't understand those two very simple facts, it's impossible to intelligently discuss economics with them.

Strum is the ultimate conspiracy theory guy, about absolutely everything. And Chick is his lone sycophant.

I haven't been back here that long. Beginning to get that feeling I've been talking with some folks that are mentally disabled with those 2.

 

[prlyles]

I agree....

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

Then Bye Dick!

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

I haven't been back here that long. Beginning to get that feeling I've been talking with some folks that are mentally disabled with those 2.

I'm beginning to think we are arguing with my grandpa who had no clue about the Federal reserve and how our dollar and inflation really worked, who knew nothing about the GDP national debt other than what the other old folks told him in the church he preached at. It would be a waste of our time to try and further educate you two old fellas. I'm done with it. I will pray tonight that I am wrong and Trump will really win this election JUST to prove a BIG point to all of you who are conditioned to think that he is our answer. If watching that little video above on him wasn't enough to convince you that you are being snowed over with a bunch of BS, then I cannot help you. I'll pray for you though.

 

[prlyles]

I'm beginning to think we are arguing with my grandpa who had no clue about the Federal reserve and how our dollar and inflation really worked, who knew nothing about the GDP national debt other than what the other old folks told him in the church he preached at. It would be a waste of our time to try and further educate you two old fellas. I'm done with it. I will pray tonight that I am wrong and Trump will really win this election JUST to prove a BIG point to all of you who are conditioned to think that he is our answer. If watching that little video above on him wasn't enough to convince you that you are being snowed over with a bunch of BS, then I cannot help you. I'll pray for you though.

I am not getting into the debate you guys are having but I want to address the comment you made "about grandpa who had no clue about the Federal reserve and how our dollar and inflation really worked, who knew nothing about the GDP national debt". Trust me, they had a handle on those issues far beyond what you guys are showing by your post in this thread, OK carry on...

 

[gunslingerdick]

I am not getting into the debate you guys are having but I want to address the comment you made "about grandpa who had no clue about the Federal reserve and how our dollar and inflation really worked, who knew nothing about the GDP national debt". Trust me, they had a handle on those issues far beyond what you guys are showing by your post in this thread, OK carry on...

Furthermore, didn't @UNC71-00 dress chick down for her not knowing anything about the Federal reserve just a week or two ago? And now she's here talking about someone else's lack of knowledge? Boy, 71-00 schooled her so well she thinks she's an authority now.

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

I am not getting into the debate you guys are having but I want to address the comment you made "about grandpa who had no clue about the Federal reserve and how our dollar and inflation really worked, who knew nothing about the GDP national debt". Trust me, they had a handle on those issues far beyond what you guys are showing by your post in this thread, OK carry on...

Oh, you knew him? Tell me why he thought I was "messing with Satan" when I played card games and when I would just dance like a ballerina when music was playing? I meant to ask him while he was alive but never did, so maybe you can enlighten me.

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

Furthermore, didn't @UNC71-00 dress chick down for her not knowing anything about the Federal reserve just a week or two ago? And now she's here talking about someone else's lack of knowledge? Boy, 71-00 schooled her so well she thinks she's an authority now.

He did? I must have missed it.

If the debt could actually be paid down then why on earth hasn't it ever happened??

Why do we have so much inflation??

Why is it we could buy a weeks worth of groceries in the 50s for about $8 and now buying the same exact items would cost $150???

Why does the Federal Reserve charge so much interest KNOWING it will never be paid????

 

[strummingram]

I am not getting into the debate you guys are having but...

That's exactly what you did.

My grandfather had no idea. My father had no idea. My great-grandfathers were probably fortunate enough to live at a time when the currency had some value.

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

Yeah, you guys keep high fiveing that you know EVERYTHING about the debt, and FR, when clearly you do not.... same crap, different day! smdh Since I promised Jim I would not call any one of you names again, I will just meme you to psychosis! lol love & hugs boyzzzz!

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

and finally....one more for the road before I go to my bedroom to color and watch the Olympics......

 

[UNC71-00]

This applies to any thread Chick poasts in more than twice.

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

This applies to any thread Chick poasts in more than twice.

Be careful what you wish for