TURN THE SPRINKLER SYSTEMS ON!!! VINCE CARTER IS ON FIRE!!!
- Thread starter DaSheed
- Start date
If Bill Bradley is in there....Vince is a lock. Vince has well over 20,000 points. The only player not in the NBA Hall of Fame with 20,000+ is Tom Chambers. Then there’s this...
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Agreed. Jamison's chances were hurt by never playing on a really good team. It's hard to make the hall when you don't play on good teams or big name teams like NY, Boston or LA.
Jamison played on some pretty good and visible Washington teams (with Gilbert Arenas) that took Cleveland to the brink in the playoffs. I remember one year Jamison averaged ridiculous numbers through a playoff run. But there is no way he's a HOFer.
Vince is a lock. And @DaSheed is right that it has as much to do with his dunking exploits as it does his numbers. Vince Carter is largely regarded as the best dunker the game has ever seen. There is no way the NBA wants that story left out of the Hall. But even without that, his numbers are impressive.
He averaged 18.5 and 7.5 per game for his career including 6 seasons of 20 or more. I'm not saying he should have been a lock, but he has the stats to back it up. His problem is that his best years as the number one option were spent on mostly bad teams that no one cared about (GSW) and he doesn't have much playoff success. Arenas was the man at Washington and while Jamison had good years there he was overshadowed by Arenas. Getting to the hall is as much about visibility as it is talent. That's why people like Rodman are in the hall.
I'm not going to argue against a UNC player getting in the HOF. I've said I don't think his career deserves it and I'll let it rest. I loved Jamison.
But Dennis Rodman, like him or not, is one of the greatest defensive players and rebounders the game has ever seen. There's no way he shouldn't be in.
I didn't say he shouldn't be in, I was just saying that his visibility on all time great teams contributed to him getting in. It's great to be a defensive player, but being a defensive player alone doesn't get you into the hall of fame. If I recall correctly he has one of the lowest PPG averages (7.3) among all hall players and only averaged 10+ one year. If he spent his career in Denver or Milwaukee he's not in the hall. And just as a comparison, Rodman's PER is 14.6 and win share is 89.8 while Jamison's is 18.1 and 87.8.
You’re a big stats guy. I’m not. To me, stats can tell about 50% of any story. Some people put way too much stock in stats. But more importantly, how does a player impact his team’s ability to win? And there are a handful of guys in every generation that can determine the outcome of a game without scoring a single point. Bill Russell, Jason Kidd, Chris Paul, Draymond Green and certainly Dennis Rodman to name a few. These types of players are often thought of as “overrated” when you look at stats. But no stat can capture how Karl Malone let Rodman get in his head and performed poorly because of it. The Worm played mental games with opponents and his teams benefitted from it greatly. You can’t quantify that.
But I agree that guys that specialize in defense are often afterthoughts for the HOF. And that’s retarded. Because after all, it is 50% of any game. Jamison wasn’t Kyrie Irving bad on the defensive end, but he was below average for much of his career.
Lastly, I guess there’s some merit to your claim that playing on good teams increases your chances of making the HOF. But I disagree with your assertion that had Rodman played for a shit team, he wouldn’t have made it. Those shit teams would have been far less shitty with Rodman. And Detroit wouldn’t have been championship caliber without him. He was a large part of Detroit being so “visible”.
Jamison had 20,000 Points if that is the Bench mark for players on the edge then He and Chambers could go in on a weak year down the road..
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