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UNC responds to the NCAA

keysersosay#1

keysersosay#1

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Apr 7, 2006
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This appears, on the surface to be a fairly bold response. It would appear also that Carolina and its legal team have attacked the very ability of the NCAA to go after us and anyone else on academic issues...it is simply beyond their scope and not within their authority.

That is precisely what many many fans, including myself, have been shouting from the mountain top for years now.

I have to say I am surprised, VERY PLEASED, but surprised at the bluntness of Carolina's response.





http://www.scout.com/college/north-carolina/story/1691704-unc-disputing-basis-for-ncaa-allegations
 
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keysersosay#1 said:
This appears, on the surface to be a fairly bold response. It would appear also that Carolina and its legal team have attacked the very ability of the NCAA to go after us and anyone else on academic issues...it is simply beyond their scope and not within their authority.

That is precisely what many many fans, including myself, have been shouting from the mountain top for years now.

I have to say I am surprised, VERY PLEASED, but surprised at the bluntness of Carolina's response.





http://www.scout.com/college/north-carolina/story/1691704-unc-disputing-basis-for-ncaa-allegations
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I just hope it's not perceived as too bold for the COI. Given the media and other fan bases response to the ANOA, they might be looking for any excuse to hand out a big punishment.
 
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We have been waiting a long time to see how UNC was going to respond to the NCAA. Basically waiting to see how our school carries it's balls in a timble or a wheel barrel. Well Moo U, dook, kensucky, Vagina Tech, and USuCk that big ass Carolina Blue wheel barrel parked out back is how we carried our balls to the NCAA's front door. So glad the powers that be at UNC are ready, willing, and able to fight this bullshiggity.
 
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yrusonvus said:
We have been waiting a long time to see how UNC was going to respond to the NCAA. Basically waiting to see how our school carries it's ball in a timble or a wheel barrel. Well Moo U, dook, kensucky, Vagina Tech, and USuCk that big ass Carolina Blue wheel barrel parked out back is how we carried our balls to the NCAA's front door. So glad the powers that be at UNC is ready, willing, and able to fight this bullshiggity.
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THIS... NCAA get the F off our porch. The big dog is here !!!!!
 
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Ross Martin‏@Boss_Martin247
This was the defining statement from Bubba on why #UNC disagrees w/ the allegation of lack of institutional control.

Co4Fq-hWIAEnlYW.jpg
 
keysersosay#1 said:
This appears, on the surface to be a fairly bold response. It would appear also that Carolina and its legal team have attacked the very ability of the NCAA to go after us and anyone else on academic issues...it is simply beyond their scope and not within their authority.

That is precisely what many many fans, including myself, have been shouting from the mountain top for years now.

I have to say I am surprised, VERY PLEASED, but surprised at the bluntness of Carolina's response.





http://www.scout.com/college/north-carolina/story/1691704-unc-disputing-basis-for-ncaa-allegations
Click to expand...
Good on 'em.
 
tarheel0910 said:
I just hope it's not perceived as too bold for the COI. Given the media and other fan bases response to the ANOA, they might be looking for any excuse to hand out a big punishment.
Click to expand...

When the allegations fail how can any penalty be imposed? Hmm? The NCAA has no business being concerned with "fan bases" or "media". They have a direct responsibility to member institutions, like UNC. Our team did a good job. COI can meet in October, it will be a very short meeting.
 
Tom79 said:
When the allegations fail how can any penalty be imposed? Hmm? The NCAA has no business being concerned with "fan bases" or "media". They have a direct responsibility to member institutions, like UNC. Our team did a good job. COI can meet in October, it will be a very short meeting.
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Historically being honest but aggressive works best on the NCAA. Don't hide sh** but go right back at them if they try to overreach. Looks like that's what's going down.
 
Tom79 said:
When the allegations fail how can any penalty be imposed? Hmm? The NCAA has no business being concerned with "fan bases" or "media". They have a direct responsibility to member institutions, like UNC. Our team did a good job. COI can meet in October, it will be a very short meeting.
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What they should do and what they will do are two completely different things. Have they ever done what they should do or come even close to being consistent in their rulings? They played the populist role with PSU. Who knows what they will do this time?
 
tarheel0910 said:
What they should do and what they will do are two completely different things. Have they ever done what they should do or come even close to being consistent in their rulings? They played the populist role with PSU. Who knows what they will do this time?
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The National Committee for Arbitrary Actions has never been known for their consistency.
 
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That is the absolute perfect response to everyone involved in this fiasco outside of the accreditor. UNC basically just told the NCAA to mind their own !@#% business or get their arse kicked in court by the same team that just kicked their arse over the allegations.

And I freakin' love it.

Since day 1 we have screamed that it's an academic issue and the NCAA was operating outside their mandate. Idiot after idiot ranted and raved about how UNC was done, and most of us doubted UNC's will to stand up and fight. Boy, were we wrong.

This is Ramses flipping-off the mooers, dook and kaintuck fans, while taking a dump at the front door of the N&O. Good stuff.

 
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heelbent said:
Since day 1 we have screamed that it's an academic issue and the NCAA was operating outside their mandate.
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There may not be penalties involved, but it's not an academic issue. It's pretty obvious why the classes were set up. North Carolina was simply in the wrong.
 
topdecktiger said:
There may not be penalties involved, but it's not an academic issue. It's pretty obvious why the classes were set up. North Carolina was simply in the wrong.
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It's pretty obvious why the classes were set up. Oh yeah, how so? Just about every major college in the country including duke, nc state, kentucky and the Ivy League offer degrees in African Studies and/or African American Studies. But you want us to believe that one and only one was created for the sole purpose of keeping student athletes eligible. You sound ridiculous.
 
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topdecktiger said:
There may not be penalties involved, but it's not an academic issue. It's pretty obvious why the classes were set up. North Carolina was simply in the wrong.
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It is a blemish on our stellar academic reputation and we all regret that it occurred. We accepted responsibility and have put measures in place to ensure it can't happen again. We cooperated fully with the NCAA, going so far as to self report violations when the investigation was almost at an end. We have endured scholarship restrictions and negative publicity which has significantly hindered our ability to recruit. This has gone on for four years now. So, we've been severely punished already.

If your school were to undergo the anal exam that we have for four years, do you honestly think you would come out of it squeaky clean? How about Alabama, OSU, FSU, or any of the football factories for that matter? If you do, you're being naive.
 
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Top tiger say that it is pretty obvious why the classes were set up...implying that it was all about athletics. THAT statement reflects a complete lack of knowledge as to why the classes were set up They were set up to help ALL students at Carolina.

We have been through this a thousand times yet the ignorance and lack of basic understanding persists by those who will never admit reality and want to believe the worst.

This is the price we pay for the Crowder/ongoro collusion.
 
topdecktiger said:
There may not be penalties involved, but it's not an academic issue. It's pretty obvious why the classes were set up. North Carolina was simply in the wrong.
Click to expand...

Let me guess, ALL your knowledge about this came from the media?
 
yrusonvus said:
It's pretty obvious why the classes were set up. Oh yeah, how so? Just about every major college in the country including duke, nc state, kentucky and the Ivy League offer degrees in African Studies and/or African American Studies. But you want us to believe that one and only one was created for the sole purpose of keeping student athletes eligible. You sound ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Deborah Crowder admitted she started the classes because she saw a lot of the black ball players come in unprepared for college and struggle, and she felt bad for them and wanted to help them out. Your position is that unless the direct motivation was to keep athletes eligible, then it's not an athletic issue. Not so. It's clear that athletes found out about this program and took advantage of it. (UNC's own investigation found a vastly disproportionate number of athletes taking the classes.) Well, that's certainly in the NCAA's purview. You had ball players taking sham classes to boost their GPA's. You don't need a "smoking gun."

By the way, the UNC AFAM program was nothing like AA programs at other schools. They were essentially fake classes, and even UNC has admitted this.

Archer2 said:
It is a blemish on our stellar academic reputation and we all regret that it occurred. We accepted responsibility and have put measures in place to ensure it can't happen again. We cooperated fully with the NCAA, going so far as to self report violations when the investigation was almost at an end. We have endured scholarship restrictions and negative publicity which has significantly hindered our ability to recruit. This has gone on for four years now. So, we've been severely punished already.

If your school were to undergo the anal exam that we have for four years, do you honestly think you would come out of it squeaky clean? How about Alabama, OSU, FSU, or any of the football factories for that matter? If you do, you're being naive.
Click to expand...


I absolutely agree with you that all the schools do it. Here's the thing. When you get caught, you just have to eat the excrement sandwich. It's just like a cop who pulls you over for speeding. He could literally find 100 other people on the same road speeding that day. You just happened to be the one who got caught.
 
First I took AFAM classes at UNC and they were real and rigorous while I was in grad school. AFAM is a department, not a class you moron! The department had several classes available and TWO criminals took advantage of the lax supervision of the of the Chancellor's and Bursar's offices to defraud the U and, indirectly create easy A grades for lazy students. They and Boxill, who was complicit should be punished beyond the immediate firing they received.

Crowder said she started the classes to "take the pressure off struggling students" and didn't say anything about them being black. That was your own bias adjusting the wording to fit your world view. She claims she was dissatisfied with the U paying too much attention to successful students and ignoring those that struggled. It was an attempt to deflect her criminal behavior and appeal to those easily manipulated.

Good job being so weak minded!

She, Boxill, and Nyangoro should all be in jail! Our weak arse, politically driven NC justice system decided to give them immunity or drop their charges.

I'm proud that my U did not cover up our issues, but self-reported and corrected the issues.
Go Tar Heels!

We beat that arse and came away from your witch-hunt strong and proud.
We'll beat that arse again on the court and on the field!
 
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TPFKAPFS said:
First I took AFAM classes at UNC and they were real and rigorous while I was in grad school. AFAM is a department, not a class you moron! The department had several classes available and TWO criminals took advantage of the lax supervision of the of the Chancellor's and Bursar's offices to defraud the U and, indirectly create easy A grades for lazy students. They and Boxill, who was complicit should be punished beyond the immediate firing they received.

Crowder said she started the classes to "take the pressure off struggling students" and didn't say anything about them being black. That was your own bias adjusting the wording to fit your world view. She claims she was dissatisfied with the U paying too much attention to successful students and ignoring those that struggled. It was an attempt to deflect her criminal behavior and appeal to those easily manipulated.

Good job being so weak minded!

She, Boxill, and Nyangoro should all be in jail! Our weak arse, politically driven NC justice system decided to give them immunity or drop their charges.

I'm proud that my U did not cover up our issues, but self-reported and corrected the issues.
Go Tar Heels!

We beat that arse and came away from your witch-hunt strong and proud.
We'll beat that arse again on the court and on the field!
Click to expand...

Have you read Jan Boxills's responses? She may come out of this looking better than anyone now believes. I am for giving her the benefit of the doubt and listening to her side of the story and the evidence that she presents.

Glenn
 
TPFKAPFS said:
First I took AFAM classes at UNC and they were real and rigorous while I was in grad school. AFAM is a department, not a class you moron! The department had several classes available and TWO criminals took advantage of the lax supervision of the of the Chancellor's and Bursar's offices to defraud the U and, indirectly create easy A grades for lazy students. They and Boxill, who was complicit should be punished beyond the immediate firing they received.

Crowder said she started the classes to "take the pressure off struggling students" and didn't say anything about them being black. That was your own bias adjusting the wording to fit your world view. She claims she was dissatisfied with the U paying too much attention to successful students and ignoring those that struggled. It was an attempt to deflect her criminal behavior and appeal to those easily manipulated.

Good job being so weak minded!

She, Boxill, and Nyangoro should all be in jail! Our weak arse, politically driven NC justice system decided to give them immunity or drop their charges.

I'm proud that my U did not cover up our issues, but self-reported and corrected the issues.
Go Tar Heels!

We beat that arse and came away from your witch-hunt strong and proud.
We'll beat that arse again on the court and on the field!
Click to expand...

I didn't say the AFAM was a single class. I said it was a "program." Sorry, those classes were sham classes. UNC's own report admitted this. Deborah Crowder also did mention black players specifically. I have read several articles that mentioned this. Sorry, but this was an issue where athletes improperly benefitted, and there should be some punishment. It doesn't have to be draconian, but there have to be some consequences.
 
topdecktiger said:
There may not be penalties involved, but it's not an academic issue. It's pretty obvious why the classes were set up. North Carolina was simply in the wrong.
Click to expand...

Oh look, another of the "wahhhhhhhh, wa-wahhhhhhhh" ilk has arrived to tell us what actually happened. Thanks for your input. Now, here's UNC's response to your butt-hurt.

AV5lw.gif
 
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topdecktiger said:
I didn't say the AFAM was a single class. I said it was a "program." Sorry, those classes were sham classes. UNC's own report admitted this. Deborah Crowder also did mention black players specifically. I have read several articles that mentioned this. Sorry, but this was an issue where athletes improperly benefitted, and there should be some punishment. It doesn't have to be draconian, but there have to be some consequences.
Click to expand...

Your problem is you started with the belief that UNC had willfully set out to create classes for the specific purpose of keeping athletes eligible and you worked backwards from there. Problem is a few facts got in your way that went against your original premise, you elected to ignor those and did not agree with your premise and hold only those the media could spin in a way that you thought fit your agenda. So no matter what facts arise that dispute your initial premise, you can not leave the "they are guilty as hell" mindset and consider that maybe they aint.

Facts are important things when you look at something like this, the tid bit fact that the NCAA has no proof that the athletic department nor any members of the atheletic department had any hand in the creation of these classes, the grading of these classes, the requirements of these classes, or who was in these classes. They looked for it mind you, they looked hard for several years for that smoking gun you so craved to be discovered, kinda hard to find something that does not exist.

This is, was, and will always be an academic issue, one that no UNC fan is proud of. But by its charter the NCAA does not regulate and can not regulate and therefore can not punish for individual school members academic problems. It doesn't matter how badly you want it to hang UNC sports out, that is your wet dream, ya gonna have to find some other way to sleep now because the NCAA has already ruled and acknowledged that they can not regulate academics and certainly can not punish for academic issues.

So now all ya got is the crying about what you wanted the NCAA to do and the fact that the NCAA couldn't do what you so badly wanted them to. Well boohoo for you but the tears wil not change the facts that the NCAA didn't grant your wish !!! And UNC now LAUGH AT YOUR TEARS!
 
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DSouthr said:
Your problem is you started with the belief that UNC had willfully set out to create classes for the specific purpose of keeping athletes eligible
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Nope, I did not start out with that belief. That's you making an assumption, instead of reading what I actually wrote. That's why I told the other poster that it isn't necessary to have a "smoking gun." Let me give you this example. Let's say a booster is paying ball players. Now, the school doesn't know about it. The coaches don't know about it. The professors don't know about it. The administrators don't know about it. The booster just did it on his on. Well, it's still a violation. The school in question would still receive a penalty. That's because it's ultimately up to the school to know what's going on within its program. It's like a coach is ultimately responsible for wins and losses. He's not actually on the court making plays, but he's the head of the team, and the ultimate responsibility comes down on him. Same thing here. The AFAM classes were going on for a long time, a bunch of ball players were taking the classes, and UNC didn't do anything about it. There was enough information about the AFAM program that the administration should have realized what was going on and put a stop to it, but they didn't. UNC got an athletic benefit from this. They have to get some sort of penalty. You can't just completely walk away from it.
 
topdecktiger said:
Nope, I did not start out with that belief. That's you making an assumption, instead of reading what I actually wrote. That's why I told the other poster that it isn't necessary to have a "smoking gun." Let me give you this example. Let's say a booster is paying ball players. Now, the school doesn't know about it. The coaches don't know about it. The professors don't know about it. The administrators don't know about it. The booster just did it on his on. Well, it's still a violation. The school in question would still receive a penalty. That's because it's ultimately up to the school to know what's going on within its program. It's like a coach is ultimately responsible for wins and losses. He's not actually on the court making plays, but he's the head of the team, and the ultimate responsibility comes down on him. Same thing here. The AFAM classes were going on for a long time, a bunch of ball players were taking the classes, and UNC didn't do anything about it. There was enough information about the AFAM program that the administration should have realized what was going on and put a stop to it, but they didn't. UNC got an athletic benefit from this. They have to get some sort of penalty. You can't just completely walk away from it.
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I'm not going to say that you are right or wrong about what happened, but comparing paying players to the AFAM situation is apples to oranges.
 
Why do yall even mess with theses clowns? Only bitter morons that pull for competing schools can't wrap their heads around why this has played out the way it has. All they see or want is for UNC to burn. It's like trying to convince someone in this presidential election to change their vote from Hilary to Trump or vice versa. It isn't gonna happen. So why waste your time trying to educate fools that don't want to know the reality?
 
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topdecktiger said:
Nope, I did not start out with that belief. That's you making an assumption, instead of reading what I actually wrote. That's why I told the other poster that it isn't necessary to have a "smoking gun." Let me give you this example. Let's say a booster is paying ball players. Now, the school doesn't know about it. The coaches don't know about it. The professors don't know about it. The administrators don't know about it. The booster just did it on his on. Well, it's still a violation. The school in question would still receive a penalty. That's because it's ultimately up to the school to know what's going on within its program. It's like a coach is ultimately responsible for wins and losses. He's not actually on the court making plays, but he's the head of the team, and the ultimate responsibility comes down on him. Same thing here. The AFAM classes were going on for a long time, a bunch of ball players were taking the classes, and UNC didn't do anything about it. There was enough information about the AFAM program that the administration should have realized what was going on and put a stop to it, but they didn't. UNC got an athletic benefit from this. They have to get some sort of penalty. You can't just completely walk away from it.
Click to expand...

Once again...WRONG. You still assume athletics was in on something against the rules...they were not. Nothing that happened was against the rules. There were no "fake" classes to take advantage of. You've been lied to and wanted to believe it so you did. Did the classes stand up to UNC's standards? No, not hardly, but that doesn't make them fake. It just makes them easy. That's the point you and the rest of your ilk just choose to ignore. SACS didn't pull anyone's credits for those classes so the people that actually have oversight ruled and placed UNC on probabtion for one year for the academic lapses. End of story.
 
Reality: It isn't against NCAA rules to steer kids to a particular class within the schools curriculum.

Now does it look a little bad? Yes. But no NCAA violation was made with AFAM. If the NCAA tries to punish for it....? UNC will lawyer up and will win.
 
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