Very quick stuff (ND game)...

[gary-7]

...and that took longer than it should have.

This'll be quick, so let's get to it.

- The staff's defensive strategy was pretty clear from the outset, and made sense --- run ND off the 3-point line at all costs. The trade- off was accepting up-down switches (and y'all probably know how much I hate those), but in this case the resllting interior mismatches weren't gonna hurt us as much as leting them fire away from deep.

- on that note, our Guards did credible jobs of fighting to hold their positions when they got posted

- I saw ND play live in Atlanta earlier this season and they are a TERRIBLE defensive team. They had to risk going Zone alot today, and I was disappointed that we didn't take better advantage. In general, we left WAY yonder too many points on the floor on the offensive end, and honestly, that's what allowed them to hang around as long as they did, getting it down to single digits late.

- That may have been the fewest whistles from TV Teddy that I can remember --- so we defintiely had to earn inside points. Would've liked some stronger finishes on our end in general.

- ND wisely concentrated on stopping our transition game, but when we ran, we did it effectively

- I love Dunn's confidence and poise when he steps on the floor and the way Seth gets after it on D. Also, big contributions from Puff, and for those who have been saying Leaky's D is overrated, he was a total disruptor today. Also, ore good signs from Washington with what is gonna become his trademark turn-around J.

- Really nice under-control floor game from Caleb today, and Mando, well... dominated whilst taking a (usually uncalled) beating.

- With all that said, with Pete out we went "small", which matched up well with them, BUT the combinations weren't necessarily ideal. With Seth and Leaky on the floor together we sacrifice too much on the offensive end. In that small configuration I'd much rather see Dunn with Leaky, and Seth with Puff to balance things out better.

Anyway, took care of business, but we'd better be ready to bring it more efficiently on the offensive end in Charlottesville...

 

[dtodd4475]

ND is a great matchup for UNC. I normally try to stay away from betting Carolina games for fear of going with my heart instead of my head, but went hard on the -12 today, that got dicey at the end for me. 😆

ND has no inside presence, and limited quickness on the perimeter, so they put soft ball pressure. Perfect recipe for UNC to face.

Caleb penetrating and staying aggressive with that part of the game is important. He still is not in a groove offensively, but that aspect opens many options for us offensively.

I liked how Caleb was quick to run up after the Trippy McTripalot cheap shot impression with the foot to Puff's face. Loved it !!!

I am hoping he along with RJ can start to get to the line at a higher rate. Free throw attempts from those two are a key stat to watch for me.

Virginia has a much different roster makeup then ND, it will be interesting to see who matches up best for us, if Nance is still a no go.

 

[gkss]

...and that took longer than it should have.

This'll be quick, so let's get to it.

- The staff's defensive strategy was pretty clear from the outset, and made sense --- run ND off the 3-point line at all costs. The trade- off was accepting up-down switches (and y'all probably know how much I hate those), but in this case the resllting interior mismatches weren't gonna hurt us as much as leting them fire away from deep.

- on that note, our Guards did credible jobs of fighting to hold their positions when they got posted

- I saw ND play live in Atlanta earlier this season and they are a TERRIBLE defensive team. They had to risk going Zone alot today, and I was disappointed that we didn't take better advantage. In general, we left WAY yonder too many points on the floor on the offensive end, and honestly, that's what allowed them to hang around as long as they did, getting it down to single digits late.

- That may have been the fewest whistles from TV Teddy that I can remember --- so we defintiely had to earn inside points. Would've liked some stronger finishes on our end in general.

- ND wisely concentrated on stopping our transition game, but when we ran, we did it effectively

- I love Dunn's confidence and poise when he steps on the floor and the way Seth gets after it on D. Also, big contributions from Puff, and for those who have been saying Leaky's D is overrated, he was a total disruptor today. Also, ore good signs from Washington with what is gonna become his trademark turn-around J.

- Really nice under-control floor game from Caleb today, and Mando, well... dominated whilst taking a (usually uncalled) beating.

- With all that said, with Pete out we went "small", which matched up well with them, BUT the combinations weren't necessarily ideal. With Seth and Leaky on the floor together we sacrifice too much on the offensive end. In that small configuration I'd much rather see Dunn with Leaky, and Seth with Puff to balance things out better.

Anyway, took care of business, but we'd better be ready to bring it more efficiently on the offensive end in Charlottesville...

Well said- thanks.

 

[FlaTarHeel]

- The staff's defensive strategy was pretty clear from the outset, and made sense --- run ND off the 3-point line at all costs. The trade- off was accepting up-down switches (and y'all probably know how much I hate those), but in this case the resllting interior mismatches weren't gonna hurt us as much as leting them fire away from deep.


- Really nice under-control floor game from Caleb today, and Mando, well... dominated whilst taking a (usually uncalled) beating.

1. Switching every screen was a bold move and Brey looked totally unprepared for it. Yeah we got caught in a few mismatches on the perimeter but the bigs(Mando) moved their feet pretty well and the guards down low(Seth, Dunn. Love) didn't not get abused for the most part.

2. He was locked in from the tip off. Great overall game!

 

[Tarheel75]

Good briefing Gary.

A couple of the guys in our group stopped and chatted with Eric Montross for brief few minutes after the conclusion of the game. Eric made an observation that I think has a lot of merit. He stated that both Dunn & Puff are getting more and more time because they are getting very comfortable with their rolls on the team and should continue to be an added plus for us going forth. He also thought that Trimble's defensive play is contagious and has set the tone of our defensive play in several games now. I agree totally with that summary.

I focused a little bit on watching Jalen's play while he was in the line-up. He has some very desirable offensive skills, and that turn-around jumper is money. His main issue should be obvious, he has to get stronger and that's going to take a while unfortunately. As he gets more acclimated to court time, look for him to migrate out from the basket towards the 3-point line. He has the skillset and shot to make 3's at a very respectable percentage. I watched him during warmups prior to the game and after the 1st half and he can shoot. He took 11 3-point shots, made 4 and had 3 rim out that went in, down and came out. He is certainly capable of shooting in the mid to high 30's (just as a future reference). Whether that comes to fruition is to be seen, but he is capable. He has to get that mental thing called confidence established first.

Now, to what I saw in today's game.

The 3G line-up once again played well and were instrumental in this win. Both RJ & Caleb had good offensive games, and both played some good defense as well. I don't think we give RJ enough credit for his rebounding prowess, he will be somewhere around the ball on both ends of the floor, when there's a rebound to be had. I really like that and wished Caleb would work a little harder on rebounding too.

We hammered them on the glass as we should have, had 19 assists on 31 FG's that's better than 60% which is good. We effectively beat a not so good ND team just as we should have. Kudos to Caleb for coming to Puff's defense when he got the shoe to the mouth by #5. As a side note, there were 2 tanked-up guys that were wanting to charge the floor and kick # 5's arse for him. The ushers intervened though, and order was restored and those two got shown the door. Too bad, those guys were a real hoot the whole game.

ETA: Forgot to mention one key element to today's game....

22 Bench points



Gary, as usual, has deftly summarized the game for us, and anymore from me would just be redundant. We are going to be tested on Tuesday in Charlottesville, and hopefully we can pass this one. We have not won a league game away from home yet and it's time we started.

 

[imajericho]

Love was out of control during the 2nd half for a stretch and ND immediately closed to within 7 during that stretch.

 

[alabamaheel]

Love was out of control during the 2nd half for a stretch and ND immediately closed to within 7 during that stretch.

Do you think he tastes a little success, then tries to do it himself? He was cooking inside our offense then like you said, went through a rough patch of me ball. It drives me crazy. For several possessions he just tried too much on his own.

 

[dtodd4475]

One play that concerned me from Caleb was when he drove and was bumped off line and reverted to that off angle running bank, similar to last year to often, tough low % look.

He then absorbed the bump, powered through and got an and 1 finish on a subsequent trip, which put a smile on my face. Followed by the drop off to Mando on a strong drive.

 

[ChiShankCity]

Do you think he tastes a little success, then tries to do it himself? He was cooking inside our offense then like you said, went through a rough patch of me ball. It drives me crazy. For several possessions he just tried too much on his own.

Caleb is the most confident player in the country. He has irrational confidence in some of his abilities too. So you'll get the really good, with the really bad, and fewer just level moments with him. I think it's something you have to live with. He has the balls to take, make, or miss big shots. Not everyone playing has that confidence. Not gonna coach that out of him now. I would also argue if you try to fit Caleb in a really strictly regimented offense, it may not turn out well for him or the team.

 

[alabamaheel]

Caleb is the most confident player in the country. He has irrational confidence in some of his abilities too. So you'll get the really good, with the really bad, and fewer just level moments with him. I think it's something you have to live with. He has the balls to take, make, or miss big shots. Not everyone playing has that confidence. Not gonna coach that out of him now. I would also argue if you try to fit Caleb in a really strictly regimented offense, it may not turn out well for him or the team.

Interesting that you use these shots or instances as good traits. Not a completely lost cause I suppose. I on the other hand don’t think it’s a great trait to have when you aren’t inside what your team is trying to do. Pretty obvious today that he did well inside the offense , then not so good for a stretch when he went rogue. None the less we need him for sure. And like you said he ain’t scared lol

 

[TarHeelFanWV]

Better without Nance today..

 

[Tom79]

I'll take 8 TO's and 19 assists every game.

 

[Tom79]

Was it me or did Seth block the big man's shot TWO handed, that kid can get up fast. A number of blocks as a team.

 

[imajericho]

Better without Nance today..

Notre Dame is very bad. Be careful at extrapolating from this game.

 

[Tarheel75]

Notre Dame is very bad. Be careful at extrapolating from this game.

Agree, it's akin to conjecture, supposition and guesswork. One game has no relation to the next in outcome. Each game has its own set of circumstances that dictate winning or losing.

 

[dtodd4475]

Agree, it's akin to conjecture, supposition and guesswork. One game has no relation to the next in outcome. Each game has its own set of circumstances that dictate winning or losing.

An awful Washington State team just rolled into Arizona and dominated the, to this point, highly praised, very consistent, Wildcat squad tonight. It happens.

 

[TarHeelMark]

Trimble's defensive play is contagious and has set the tone of our defensive play in several games now.

Agreed. It's not a coincidence that the Heels defense looked better today and in the last 10 minutes vs Wake. Seth is setting the tone. I hope he continues getting ~25 minutes every game.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

We've improved. We now look pretty good beating creampuffs. That wasn't always true earlier in the season.

That 2nd half lapse can't happen against UVa.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Here's a big stat:

Bench minutes first half = 27

Bench minutes second half = 27

Even more impressive because Seth started, so his minutes don't count as bench minutes.

We probably wont see that against UVa, but it's nice to see Hubert is able to trust the bench with good minutes in the second half.

 

[TarHeelFanWV]

Notre Dame is very bad. Be careful at extrapolating from this game.

True but we have had trouble blowing anyone out other than GT.. plus, this same starting lineup was the best lineup of Wake game..

 

[shane023]

Anyone know Nate Laszewski’s career FG% against UNC? I swear it’s got to be close to 75%. He just always seems to play so well offensively against UNC.

 

[dtodd4475]

Here's a big stat:

Bench minutes first half = 27

Bench minutes second half = 27

Even more impressive because Seth started, so his minutes don't count as bench minutes.

We probably wont see that against UVa, but it's nice to see Hubert is able to trust the bench with good minutes in the second half.

Well, we still basically only played 7, with a splash of Washington added. The fact Trimble started lead to the minutes being bigger I think, as he split time with Dunn ( 24/16). We emptied the bench for last minute or 2 equals 5 to 10 of 2nd half minutes.

Caleb 36, RJ 36, Mando 31. Leaky did play a bit less then his norm.

Bench Puff 22, Dunn 16 Washington 7

 

[imajericho]

True but we have had trouble blowing anyone out other than GT.. plus, this same starting lineup was the best lineup of Wake game..

Not sure things align with this. Gardner Webb, Portland, and Citadel were all worse than Notre Dame in kenpom. Georgia Tech is basically even though slightly lower.

We had some trouble with Gardner Webb and Portland. We blew out Citadel and Georgia Tech.

We also handedly beat UNCW, James Madison and College of Charleston which are all higher than Notre Dame, some significantly so.

This game falls in line pretty much exactly where we have been all season and what we should have expected.

It's the teams better than 70 that we seem to have issues with for the most part. Pitt 69. VA Tech 40. Iowa St 29. Michigan 51. Indiana 19. Ohio State 9. Alabama 6.

Which doesn't bode well for tournament time. 2-5 vs the top 70 isn't a great look. We will see how things go though. Virginia is going to be a huge test.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Well, we still basically only played 7, with a splash of Washington added. The fact Trimble started lead to the minutes being bigger I think, as he split time with Dunn ( 24/16). We emptied the bench for last minute or 2 equals 5 to 10 of 2nd half minutes.

Caleb 36, RJ 36, Mando 31. Leaky did play a bit less then his norm.

Bench Puff 22, Dunn 16 Washington 7

If what you are suggesting is that we might not see that balance again, I suspect you are right. But it did happen and the world didn't come to an end, so I hope Hubert will feel more comfortable using the bench in the 2nd half going forward.

 

[DSouthr]

We played pretty well, at best this was our B game, capable of so much more but we did what we should have done to ND, we won in a game that really was not as close as the final score would indicate, exactly what we should have done to Pitt.

Of course I loved Trimble starting, want to speak to this growing notion of some posters preferring Trimble and Leaky NOT be in the game together. I actually really like Seth and Leaky in the game together and especially liked them starting together, Trimble seems to set the defensive tone and when that defensive tone is set the effort level on both sides of the ball is amped up. How many games have you guys watched over the last 2yrs where the effort level to begin the game just was not right, a freakin BUNCH! Seth sets the tone for defensive effort and that picks up the effort level for all his mates, so we started off sharp.

Oh but we struggle to score with 2 weak jump shooters on the floor together, we actually don't struggle that much to score with those 2 on the floor because both are very active and both are very solid decision makers, neither are going to take bad shots, and the ball is going in to Bacot. Because the ball is going in to Bacot so often Bacot is now looking for the better shot from a mate if he does not have something right in his wheel house, so the ball is shared more. This is a great look when we play teams that use 3 and 4 guards.

I felt Dunn and Puff both off the bench played really well, was nice to see Puff's jumpers dropping, as I have said many times, Puff actually is a really good jump shooter, we just have not see that consistently but it is there. I continue to be surprised in Dunn's play just due to how skiddish he looked in games last season, he does not look skeered this season, he looks really confident and his jump shooting is money combined with him not being a minus defender.

RJ & Caleb, solid game from both, have to notice the improved shot selection from them this season, Caleb did have a bad Caleb stretch in the second half and our margin fell to 7 but we regrouped and Caleb calmed down and in the end did what we should have done to Pitt, taken our lead late and expanded it rather than watch it wilt in to a loss that should not have happened. Hopefully that shows growth, hopefully next time it will be harder to revert back to the old ways.

Nickel, we have to find him PT, the more he plays the better he plays, have to get him some minutes and I want to see more of Washington now that Nance is questionable, we are going to need Washington vs longer teams like duke.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I actually really like Seth and Leaky in the game together and especially liked them starting together, Trimble seems to set the defensive tone and when that defensive tone is set the effort level on both sides of the ball is amped up.

In the simplest terms, when Trimble is in the game, neither RJ nor Caleb has to guard the toughest back court opponent.

They may not want to give him many of their minutes, but you can bet they are happy to have him on the court with them for that reason. Not to mention offloading a bit of the ball-handling duties, especially in RJ's case.

In bad news, Caleb is listed as #32 on NBAdraft,net's "Big Board" . . . and Trimble shows up at #33.

Sure, that site isn't the best, but they aren't going to be too far off.

Point being that we'd better have good NIL for Trimble. He may not be a star yet, but we aren't the only ones noticing how good he is. I've been thinking of him as a 3-4 year guy, but that may not be true.

 

[DSouthr]

Until his jump shooting kicks in I do not expect him to be a entry threat. After this season, Trimble's main focus in the next off season will be his jump shooting and the kid is actually not a bad jump shooter but he is not a confident jump shooter, has a couple mechanical flaws in his stroke that can be worked out but most of it is just taking a huge number of shots a day to find his rhythm and confidence that he had in HS. Now after next season he could well be a lotto level NBA guy, good length, great athletism, solid ball handles, extreme defender, good size for a guard, if he can add solid jump shooting the NBA will come begging him to enter the draft.

 

[imajericho]

Their newest mock draft which is a month more current than what you listed has Love at 40th, Trimble undrafted, and Bacot at 53.

Trimble had hype, but he isn't going to be drafted right now if he can't score. That has been becoming clearer lately that he probably doesn't have much of a 3 point shot.

Leaky and Trimble kind of play redundant roles on the court unless Leaky can hold down the 4 and hit shots.

 

[DSouthr]

Their newest mock draft which is a month more current than what you listed has Love at 40th, Trimble undrafted, and Bacot at 53.

Trimble had hype, but he isn't going to be drafted right now if he can't score. That has been becoming clearer lately that he probably doesn't have much of a 3 point shot.

Leaky and Trimble kind of play redundant roles on the court unless Leaky can hold down the 4 and hit shots.

If he can't score? Man, you have to stop looking at the box score to determine if a kid can score or not. Seth is a pass first PG that is playing out of position, he is deferring like a LOT of freshmen do, to our more experienced scorers. This is akin to that old statement someone posted that said if Luke Maye ever starts for UNC then we are in TROUBLE! Seth can score, his jump shooting has to improve but that looks like a bigger problem than what it actually is, he is simply trying to fit in on the offensive end right now playing with such talented mates, he is a freshman not even half way thru his freshman season.

Now I have read a lot of crazy stuff but to say that Leaky and Trimble are redundant is way up there on the crazy list for me. Were you actually serious about that, is that what you actually believe? Since when did a kid that can lock down defend PGs and 2 guards and another guy that can lock down wing 3s and stretch 4s become redundant, become a bad thing? That is actually a fantastic thing, it sets the energy tone for the entire game in a very positive way for us.

 

[Archer2]

If he can't score? Man, you have to stop looking at the box score to determine if a kid can score or not. Seth is a pass first PG that is playing out of position, he is deferring like a LOT of freshmen do, to our more experienced scorers. This is akin to that old statement someone posted that said if Luke Maye ever starts for UNC then we are in TROUBLE! Seth can score, his jump shooting has to improve but that looks like a bigger problem than what it actually is, he is simply trying to fit in on the offensive end right now playing with such talented mates, he is a freshman not even half way thru his freshman season.

Now I have read a lot of crazy stuff but to say that Leaky and Trimble are redundant is way up there on the crazy list for me. Were you actually serious about that, is that what you actually believe? Since when did a kid that can lock down defend PGs and 2 guards and another guy that can lock down wing 3s and stretch 4s become redundant, become a bad thing? That is actually a fantastic thing, it sets the energy tone for the entire game in a very positive way for us.

I agree. Seth plays defense as well as I’ve seen a freshman guard play it in a long time. When he’s in the game, there’s a marked uptick in defensive intensity. We create more TO’s and fast break more. Our spacing is better. I know there will be matchups where we have to go with two bigs but we now know the smaller lineup can be effective. I hope we see more of it.

 

[heels05champs]

I will go as far as saying that Seth is the best defender as a freshman that I have seen in the Roy/Hubert era. He is a complete difference maker on the defensive end picking their guards up at half court and disrupting their flow. He’s in their face when they cross the line and does it without fouling.

 

[imajericho]

If he can't score? Man, you have to stop looking at the box score to determine if a kid can score or not. Seth is a pass first PG that is playing out of position, he is deferring like a LOT of freshmen do, to our more experienced scorers. This is akin to that old statement someone posted that said if Luke Maye ever starts for UNC then we are in TROUBLE! Seth can score, his jump shooting has to improve but that looks like a bigger problem than what it actually is, he is simply trying to fit in on the offensive end right now playing with such talented mates, he is a freshman not even half way thru his freshman season.

Now I have read a lot of crazy stuff but to say that Leaky and Trimble are redundant is way up there on the crazy list for me. Were you actually serious about that, is that what you actually believe? Since when did a kid that can lock down defend PGs and 2 guards and another guy that can lock down wing 3s and stretch 4s become redundant, become a bad thing? That is actually a fantastic thing, it sets the energy tone for the entire game in a very positive way for us.

You can be bewildered and think things are crazy as you what.

Seth isn't getting drafted this year if he doesn't start scoring. If he doesn't start scoring, hum and Leaky are redundant defensive stoppers, who can pass, but don't score.

They fulfill the same role.

 

[gary-7]

Interesting that you use these shots or instances as good traits. Not a completely lost cause I suppose. I on the other hand don’t think it’s a great trait to have when you aren’t inside what your team is trying to do. Pretty obvious today that he did well inside the offense , then not so good for a stretch when he went rogue. None the less we need him for sure. And like you said he ain’t scared lol

Not singling you out, but I'm sitting here scratching my head as to how this thread morphed into yet another Love-bash-o-rama. Reality is that Caleb played overall a very solid game. Not perfect by any means, but I could go player-by-player and point to bad moments, and with Caleb that alpha personality is not something that everyone has but is something every team needs. Obviously we all want him to be more under control as a norm, and Saturday was an overall good move in that direction.

 

[alabamaheel]

You can be bewildered and think things are crazy as you what.

Seth isn't getting drafted this year if he doesn't start scoring. If he doesn't start scoring, hum and Leaky are redundant defensive stoppers, who can pass, but don't score.

They fulfill the same role.

Don’t think anyone thinks he’s being drafted this year.

 

[alabamaheel]

Not singling you out, but I'm sitting here scratching my head as to how this thread morphed into yet another Love-bash-o-rama. Reality is that Caleb played overall a very solid game. Not perfect by any means, but I could go player-by-player and point to bad moments, but with Caleb that alpha personality is not something that everyone has but is something every team needs. Obviously we all want him to be more under control as a norm, and Saturday was an overall good move in that direction.

Read Gary. I said he’s good while inside the offense bad when not. That happen during the game. Trust me I know we need him but we need him to be good. Can’t keep going one on one when he thinks he’s hot. He was good in the first half because the game came to him.

 

[alabamaheel]

If he can't score? Man, you have to stop looking at the box score to determine if a kid can score or not. Seth is a pass first PG that is playing out of position, he is deferring like a LOT of freshmen do, to our more experienced scorers. This is akin to that old statement someone posted that said if Luke Maye ever starts for UNC then we are in TROUBLE! Seth can score, his jump shooting has to improve but that looks like a bigger problem than what it actually is, he is simply trying to fit in on the offensive end right now playing with such talented mates, he is a freshman not even half way thru his freshman season.

Now I have read a lot of crazy stuff but to say that Leaky and Trimble are redundant is way up there on the crazy list for me. Were you actually serious about that, is that what you actually believe? Since when did a kid that can lock down defend PGs and 2 guards and another guy that can lock down wing 3s and stretch 4s become redundant, become a bad thing? That is actually a fantastic thing, it sets the energy tone for the entire game in a very positive way for us.

He’s ran the offense with bacot better than anyone. He’s a freshman doing things with rare playing time. Man can he jump.

 

[gary-7]

You can be bewildered and think things are crazy as you what.

Seth isn't getting drafted this year if he doesn't start scoring. If he doesn't start scoring, hum and Leaky are redundant defensive stoppers, who can pass, but don't score.

They fulfill the same role.

Even though Leaky is showing more signs of offensive aggression, this is generally true.

Whether it's Dudley Bradley or Jackie Manuel or Leaky, other than special situations, you can only afford to have one "specialist" in the lineup for long stretches. We were just a different and better offensive team with Dunn in the game as the small 3, and it's not like he's a bad defender by any means either.

As I said in the OP, in small-ball I like a 3/4 of Dunn/Leaky or Trimble/Puff

 

[gary-7]

Read Gary. I said he’s good while inside the offense bad when not. That happen during the game. Trust me I know we need him but we need him to be good. Can’t keep going one on one when he thinks he’s hot. He was good in the first half because the game came to him.

I did read, and again, I wasn't singling you out.

 

[alabamaheel]

I did read, and again, I wasn't singling you out.

But to that same note Gary it is easy to be harder on the players you expect more out of.

 

[DSouthr]

He’s ran the offense with bacot better than anyone. He’s a freshman doing things with rare playing time. Man can he jump.

Totally agree!