TarHeelIllustrated - Wanting To Be On The Ball Prompted Wilcher's Move
Simeon Wilcher has asked for his release. Find out why it happened, and what it means for UNC.
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Wanting To Be On The Ball Prompted Wilcher's Move
- Thread starter andrew jones
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He was scheduled to arrive on campus this Sunday. He's known RJ and Trimble were coming back for a while. He's known Cadeau's reclass was in the work for a while.
When I see him running his mouth today on social media (and then quickly deleting the posts) I get the impression he's really enjoying this. Like he gets a kick out of sticking it to UNC at the last minute and leaving the staff scrambling. He could have decommitted back in April. His prospects of playing PG at UNC his freshman year were the same in April as they are today.... bc he nowhere close to being an ACC level point guard.
When I see him running his mouth today on social media (and then quickly deleting the posts) I get the impression he's really enjoying this. Like he gets a kick out of sticking it to UNC at the last minute and leaving the staff scrambling. He could have decommitted back in April. His prospects of playing PG at UNC his freshman year were the same in April as they are today.... bc he nowhere close to being an ACC level point guard.
That is what I was thinking. Much more like the fit he initially committed here for. They went hard after Caleb too, Wilcher will play some point along with the 2. They have done very well in the portal with Mgbako and Ware already.
Sounds like a lot of 19 year olds. Oh well. Would’ve liked to see him play here but if he didn’t want to, I’ll move on quick.
He’s going to be 20 during the season in January. Maybe he’ll have an opportunity to play 25+ minutes as a primary ballhandler elsewhere.
Gonna be real interesting to see if he picks a school where he can play PG this season. Or if he picks a school that drops the biggest NIL bag.
Rumor has it, he was expecting a transfer from Seth…and now I like Seth a bit more now. That backcourt is tough
Opportunity is there for him. Hopefully he responds to it.
That's some low class crap dook/Kay had recruits do to Roy a few times, but 'ol RW got the last laugh.
Lol. Has there ever been a softer generation of teenagers?
Or one that felt more entitled? The last couple of generations are Charmin soft.
The irony that this young man should renege on his commitment on June 6, the anniversary of D-Day shouldn't be missed. The same day we celebrate one of the greatest victories this country has seen, in a battle that so many young men gave their lives because of commitments to family, country, and each other, this spoiled brat decides it'll be too hard to get playing time at UNC. Wanting to be on the ball is an excuse, not a reason for leaving. Expecting things to be given to him, not being taught what it means to make a commitment, not caring or understanding what it means to give your word to somebody, inflated egos...those are the reasons he's leaving. Good riddance!
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This is not a big loss by no means, Wilchers stock has fallen about as fast as Bud Light sales since he was a 5 star recruit. We are very good at both guard positions without him.
First, GG. Now Simeon.
Go do you.
Carolina will be just fine without you.
Go do you.
Carolina will be just fine without you.
Before we added all these transfers and Cadeau, I thought Wilcher would start. And I thought he could become a star. Maybe not instantly, but not slowly, either.
My guess is that he thought that way, too, but no longer sees that happening. Sure, he still might become a star in his sophomore year, but there are too many what ifs, and not enough PT as a freshman.
I'm really sorry to see him leave, but I can see why he might want to.
My guess is that he thought that way, too, but no longer sees that happening. Sure, he still might become a star in his sophomore year, but there are too many what ifs, and not enough PT as a freshman.
I'm really sorry to see him leave, but I can see why he might want to.
I wish kids would elect to fight for what they want rather than avoid any real challenge and expect things to just be given to them. Clearly he was not going to be able to beat out Cadeau for the starting PG role he seems to have coveted but if he were not willing to fight RJ or Seth for minutes he either does not really believe him his own ability or isn't really wanting to fight for what he gets. I want fighters that will take on a challenge even if it is hard.
Unless RJ has a bad season, he starts at SG.
If RJ backs up at point, that leaves 20 minutes at SG. If RJ does not back up at point, that leaves 10 minutes at SG. Give or take.
Also competing for those SG minutes are Cormac, Seth, and Paxson.
Seth will get some minutes because of his D, but Cormac will get most of them - unless other circumstances require him to play most of his minutes at SF. Such as Withers not being as good as expected, requiring Ingram to vacate SF for the PF spot.
With Wilcher gone, not much changes. Cormac is still the #1 backup choice at SG. But there should be more minutes for Seth and Paxson.
I know you would rather not see RJ backing up at point. But that just means even fewer minutes at SG.
Bottom line: I don't think this has anything to do with unwillingness to compete. I think it has everything to do with realizing that there probably wouldn't be very many minutes to compete for.
Somewhere, Jaime Shaw is probably smirking to himself feeling validated about predicting this lol.
Said it many times, 2 things I hope not to see next season is RJ spending any time at all at the point and Seth spending any time at all at the 2 but that is me, that is what I want to see, I know full well that Hubert is not likely to handle it that way. Just like the does Ryan start at the 3 question, have been clear, I don't like that any more than I like Ingram starting at the 4 rather than Withers. I KNOW most do not agree with me on this now days, funny how everyone did when Ingram committed? LOL
"Bottom line: I don't think this has anything to do with unwillingness to compete. I think it has everything to do with realizing that there probably wouldn't be very many minutes to compete for."
The above quote actually, there are 40mins per position to compete for and there are basketball players to compete against. The players may vary in talent but every player has the opportunity to fight with everything they have, you may not be the biggest, you may not be the most talented but you can be the one with the most fight, Rocky was not suppose to beat Creed but he did, USA hockey was not suppose to beat the Russians but they did, it comes down to who wants it more, to the size of the fight in the dawg. If you don't think you are good enough then you better forget about those future NBA dreams because there are guys in the league that will chew your arm off to grab your minutes, if you can't beat a college kid for minutes then what chance do you have in the NBA? Dean Smith sat in Hubert Davis's living room with Hubert and his parents and told Hubert he was not good enough to play for UNC, Dean said it nicer than that but it still says the same thing. But Hubert knew where he wanted to be and who he wanted as his coach and he begged Dean for nothing more than a chance, nothing more than just that. It was because Dean saw the will to fight in that kid that had him give Hubert that chance, the rest is history.
Slinger, I am not going to say you are wrong but I sure hope you are.
I do not think there will be 20 minutes of backup minutes at the point. I think Cadaue goes at least near 30. I do think RJ will get some of, probably the majority if those 10 or so backup PG minutes. Ryan sliding in at the 2 or 3 depending on game flow. Seth as the plug in after the top 2 at each position.
Ingram may be looking at Leaky minutes at the 3 with Ryan sliding his minutes between the 2 and 3.
Mando the mainstay big with Washington getting his 8 or so down minutes and some time at the 4 sharing with Withers. Ingram when they go small ball with Ryan at the 3 as well.
High and Wojcik as needed by situation.
No, no. Not 20 minutes of backup at point. But if RJ plays 10 of his 30 minutes backing up at point, that means he only plays 20 minutes at SG - leaving 20 minutes (at SG) for people to fight over.
Sorry if I was unclear about that.
And if Seth backs up at point, instead of RJ, that means RJ plays all of his 30 minutes at SG. Leaving only 10 minutes at SG for people to fight over.
Obviously I'm just using 30 minutes as a placeholder. Hoping that Hubert moves away from Iron Man so that nobody plays more than that.
Sure. But 20-30 of those 40 minutes at SG are RJ's to lose. And I doubt he loses them. So in reality, there are only 10-20 SG minutes up for grabs. Just 10 if you get your way and RJ doesn't play backup PG.
That's my preferred backcourt rotation, too, unless/until actual games show it to be flawed.
As mentioned elsewhere, it plays Ryan more minutes at SG, where I think he is best-suited.
It also means Cadeau always has a very experienced player in the back court with him (RJ or Ryan). He may not need training wheels, but it won't hurt to have them.
Unless Cadeau isn't ready, that 3-man rotation gives us a stellar backcourt for 40 minutes. Might be one of the best in the nation.
Factor in how often Cadeau got into foul trouble this past month playing AAU ball when you project his minutes going forward. I suspect his foul tendencies may be an issue. Especially if he has to guard taller shooting guards every game bc RJ is too short to guard anyone except PGs.
Cadeau also likes to draw charges, which can be a gamble since refs often get those calls wrong and the NCAA has decided to change how charges are called next season.
Cadeau also likes to draw charges, which can be a gamble since refs often get those calls wrong and the NCAA has decided to change how charges are called next season.
I would pull RJ's minutes down to 25/game and doing this would be a much easier sell if we commit to a flat out running game, guys need breaks when playing at that tempo. RJ sits and Ryan comes in, Ryan gets most of his minutes at the 2 but gets some at the 3 in a small ball package where he would split minutes with Paxton when Ingram sits.
You have to adjust things a games are played, you have to adjust things from one opponent to another. Maybe you play a team that uses a smaller 3 or smaller 4 where you want a more guard like 3, maybe a team that uses a slender stretch 4 maybe Ingram fits that match up better. I think 1 real key is how much Seth and Washington develop this off season. Does Seth hit those jumpers at a reasonable clip, does Jalen get his leg strength back, real keys for PT adjustments. If Seth is able to show off a decent jump shot then you adjust Cadeau down to 25-28mins and fill the rest in with Seth. If Seth does not show reasonable ability to hit those jumpers then you now have to move RJ to get some time at the point as in 20mins at the 2 and maybe 10 or so at the point. IT just depends on individual match ups and who is producing in any individual game.
I think it is easier to start guys out with fewer minutes, RJ for example, and then adjust them up as needed than to start out with huge minutes and reduce them. Hubert seems to want to make his PT adjustments more by feel than structure but has tended to play guys that are not really producing more time then they should be getting at the cost of PT for guys coming off the bench, sticking with the hot hand I get, sticking with the cold hands I do not get.
Post note, I think it is very important to see for sure if or to what degree Seth can handle the point and that means he has to get decent PT there this season. We have to know if Seth is a reliable PG or not because the impacts the season after, most especially if Cadeau does 1&D. We have to know if Seth is a guy that can take over or if we need to portal in a PG, we may have to portal in a PG anyway even if Seth does step up because the likelihood that RJ may not return for us after this coming season is absolutely in play.
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EC-RJ, Seth
RJ-Ryan, Seth, Wojick,
Ingram-Ryan, Withers
Withers-Washington, Ingram
Bacot-High, Washington, Withers
10 deep and ready to run! RJ will likely be the 1st backup at 1 due to experience and negotiation. Ryan will not start over Ingram but will get starter minutes (except in certain situations). If High isn't ready and Washington isn't full strength, Withers becomes primary backup at 5. Washington and Seth have the potential to upset this rotation if they are healthy and have corrected their flaws. I don't really expect Withers to see much time at 3 or Ingram to play much 4. This is a deep, versatile, and athletic team that can get back to running peeps out of the gym and playing physical, disruptive D! Hubs will have a blast experimenting with lineups, matching up situationally, and reacting to the feel of each game!
RJ-Ryan, Seth, Wojick,
Ingram-Ryan, Withers
Withers-Washington, Ingram
Bacot-High, Washington, Withers
10 deep and ready to run! RJ will likely be the 1st backup at 1 due to experience and negotiation. Ryan will not start over Ingram but will get starter minutes (except in certain situations). If High isn't ready and Washington isn't full strength, Withers becomes primary backup at 5. Washington and Seth have the potential to upset this rotation if they are healthy and have corrected their flaws. I don't really expect Withers to see much time at 3 or Ingram to play much 4. This is a deep, versatile, and athletic team that can get back to running peeps out of the gym and playing physical, disruptive D! Hubs will have a blast experimenting with lineups, matching up situationally, and reacting to the feel of each game!
TP, I would suggest that you really don't want Withers spending any time at the 3, he does not put it on the floor like Ingram does, you don't want to put him in a ball handle situation. He is a solid passer and solid straight line to the basket guy that can hit the clean look jumpers out to trey land. But he is not that guy that with the ball that is going to slash from outside of the paint to finish above the rim, that is not his game. He is a energy guy that will give you some physicality, a guy you want to make those hard cuts thru the lane, a guy your ball handler will find when his defender helps off, he is going to cut off the help and make for a easy slip to finish.
Ingram is the guy you want at the 3, he is able to put the ball on the floor and when he does he keeps his head up, looks to force the defense to commit help to him and he finds the open team mate when they do help off. I think Ingram will also be a really good guy to have in the middle of quick combination passing. Ingram gives you really good size (225lbs and wide shoulders), excellent physical strength and really good feet, going to be really hard for the more typical type wings to defend or block out for boards. On the defensive end he is a step less than Leaky was because leaky was a blanket defender, wouldn't even let his man touch the ball. But being a step less than Leaky is a darn good defender that really works hard on that end every time down.
These days everyone thinks they are 1 and done level players. I could make a case his NBA future would have greater chances playing 3 years at Carolina being the go to guy his last year rather than wherever he ends up next year. But times have changed and not for the good of the game and most of the players.
This is an athletic team? Who's athletic?
I think Cadeau is a good athlete. RJ is shiftier than athletic. Ingram is predominately a below-the-rim wing. I think Withers is a good athlete. I wouldn't call Bacot all that athletic. Then off the bench: Seth is a good athlete. Ryan and Wojcik are probably above average athletes. Washington is probably a below average athlete. Don't know much about High.
Also, this team is only deep if Seth Trimble takes a significant leap, if Wojcik can play at this level, and if Washington can physically play at this level.
I'm a fan of Withers. I think his skill will really help us. We can drive left and right and finish with both hands. But if all this talk of leaving Cormac on the bench is a reality, Withers' shooting becomes maybe the most important thing for this team apart from how Cadeau plays as a freshman PG.
I'll say it over and over again. I don't think we have the luxury to leave a good (maybe our best) high volume/solid 3PT shooter on the bench.
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I still think the roster makeup was/is the key to his decision. At this point I can see the allure of St. John's with Pitino. At home, lots of new faces from the portal, combo opportunities at both positions. NIL should be good.
I still think Indiana will be a heavy look for him. His high school star buddy, good team, opportunity to play combo and get backup point minutes. Their boosters have been very strong in NIL as well, just as UNC has/is.
NIL is a factor everywhere. Heck, Mando loves UNC, but even he has said he would of been gone without NIL. The $$$$ is at all his choices including UNC.
You may not be addressing that to me, but let me just say that I want Cormac coming off the bench but playing starter minutes. I definitely do NOT want to "leave" him on the bench.
By having Cormac come off the bench, he's available to back up both SG and SF. I think that gets him more minutes at SG than he would get if starts at SF. He may play more of his minutes at SF, but the balance will be better.
I'd think you would prefer this, too, since you seem to agree with me and @DSouthr on Withers.
Obviously, if Withers isn't as good as we (and @andrew jones) expect, then Ryan shifts to SF more - and maybe starts there - to free up Ingram to play more PF. But until that happens, having Cormac come off the bench to back up both wing positions strikes me as the best for him and for the team.
Until practices or games show this to be wrong-headed, these are my starters and primary backups
Cadeau - RJ
RJ - Cormac
Ingram - Cormac
Withers - Ingram
Bacot - Washington
Making Cormac Ryan a contender for best 6th man in the ACC.
The only big question mark there is Washington. If he (and High) aren't good enough to back up Armando, then Withers has to. Ingram slides to more PF and that ripples down the roster, with either Seth or Paxson picking up the slack.
This could be a really good team or a merely good team. I can't wait to see which we get.
Wasn't addressing you specifically. Was addressing the overall opinion of having Cormac on the bench. Right now, I don't think we're good enough to have the luxury of a good high volume 3PT shooter off the bench. That changes if Cadeau is a plus shooter, if Ingram is an average shooter, if Withers is a 40+ 3PT shooter.
I understand your opinion of the minutes breakdown. But if we're as deep as people think we are, it will not be difficult to manage minutes.
Has there ever been an older generation that didn't feel this about younger generations though?
This new generation always driving their automobiles is so soft. They don't even know where to park their horse when they get to the dry goods store.
have they ever been wrong though?
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