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Who stays?

Admittedly, the problem with relying upon freshmen to assume major roles is that the approach has greater voltality (recruiting misses; increased declarations) and inextricably tied to the quality of the freshmen class. In 2014-15 the recruiting class was very strong; and the teams that recruited those guys will be correspondingly strong (e.g., Duke and UK in 14-15). 2016-17 is expected to be the same way. In 2012-13 and 2015-16, by contrast, the freshmen classes weren't all that great and the teams that had a lot of freshmen fared poorly (in 12-13 UK went to the NIT and in 15-16, UK lost in the 2nd round, Duke lost 10+ games for the first time in nearly a decade, Cal lost in the first round, and LSU in the NIT). In the end of the day, I think recruiting the top-end players improves your chances at making final fours and national titles; but I also think it clearly leads to more volatility more from year-to-year.

But the bar continues to be lowered so comparing from year to year might not make the most sense. Every time a freshman gets drafted on "potential", that leads to 10 kids currently in AAU ball thinking they can be that guy. And it also leads to recruitniks and talking heads evaluating players more and more on "potential". For example, Skal from UK had a joke of a season. But he's listed as a top 15 draft pick by most services. But how does he compare to top 15 draft picks of yesteryear? Not favorably. Of course we can't fully evaluate him until he's been in the league a while (and most likely failed). But the point is, the standards for being "draftable" continue to be lowered. So even your assertion that next year looks more like last year isn't necessarily accurate because each year we're measuring kids against a lower mark. Make sense?
 
Jackson didn't sign on to be a 4-year player. The kid was ranked in the Top 20 in his class. If he is projected in the first round Roy "will" encourage him to leave. If he wants to come back, it is his decision, but Roy will not hold him back. As fans, we want everyone back, but I'm sure Pinson wants to start in his junior year. If you are projected round 1, Roy will not hold him back.

Steat, got a secret for ya, 4 & 5 star players mostly ALL think about being one & done, the rare ones are those that don't at least think they can. It is just the culture we are in these days, folks want it all and they want it NOW. But REALITY can be a biatch, it is reality that shows you when you actually get to the major college D-1 level how much it really takes to play there as well as move up to the NBA.

Some kids just can not get one & done out of their head, Diello from Kansas for example, no way he should be in a draft right now, Labissier same, they are not ready for this level, how the heck are ya gonna make it at the higher level? Greed has taken over on all fronts, sad but the reality today.
 
Roy did get outcoached in the title game. Almost every possession, Nova switched every screen and it left a guard fronting the post in the paint with no help over the top and we for some odd reason refused to force it inside. If it wasnt for our best outside shooting performance of the season we wouldve been lucky to keep it within 10. It happens to every coach that has ever lived though. It doesnt take away that this was probably Roy's best coaching job at UNC since 2006 though. This was an underachieving team that had problems with both physical and mental toughness and in the second half of the season this team played angry and was night and day with the intensity they played defense with. Roy's not the best X's and O's guy, he never was and never will be, but no one can ever deny that all his players would run through a wall if he asked them to.

I thought after the last couple of years that the game had passed him by and he should walk away before he ruins his legacy, after watching the turnaround this year I hope he stays 10 more years, and you're crazy if you don't feel the same.
 
I think UNC has enough NBA connections to get honest feedback that Roy can share with all the players.

They do no doubt. But kids want to experience it on their own, can't say as I fault them, they just need to be wise beyond their years and have great discernment to know when somebody is simply blowing smoke up their hineys.
 
I'm going to need a link to an article where Jackson discusses his desire to be an early entry. Otherwise, how would you know what Jackson signed up for?

As far as him leaving, Roy shouldn't encourage him or discourage him. Roy's job should be to tell him the feedback he's gotten and leave it at that. One of the reasons people go to college is to mature and become independent thinkers. Let's hope Roy doesn't thwart any growth in those departments.
Steat is correct.
 
Roy did get outcoached in the title game. Almost every possession, Nova switched every screen and it left a guard fronting the post in the paint with no help over the top and we for some odd reason refused to force it inside. If it wasnt for our best outside shooting performance of the season we wouldve been lucky to keep it within 10. It happens to every coach that has ever lived though. It doesnt take away that this was probably Roy's best coaching job at UNC since 2006 though. This was an underachieving team that had problems with both physical and mental toughness and in the second half of the season this team played angry and was night and day with the intensity they played defense with. Roy's not the best X's and O's guy, he never was and never will be, but no one can ever deny that all his players would run through a wall if he asked them to.

I thought after the last couple of years that the game had passed him by and he should walk away before he ruins his legacy, after watching the turnaround this year I hope he stays 10 more years, and you're crazy if you don't feel the same.
He did not get out-coached.
 
I must have missed the link in your post. Do you mind posting it again? TIA.
Didn't get my info from any link. Posted when we signed him that JJ didn't come in with the expectation of being a OAD, nor did he come in with the expectation of being here 4 years. The feeling around the team this season was that this would likely be his last, but his disappointing shooting pct may preclude that as it dropped his projection --- how he shows for the NBA scouts will be critical.
 
Jeff Goodman posted on Twitter that Jackson will declare for NBA but not hire a agent.
Good call on his part.
 
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I'm going to need a link to an article where Jackson discusses his desire to be an early entry. Otherwise, how would you know what Jackson signed up for?

As far as him leaving, Roy shouldn't encourage him or discourage him. Roy's job should be to tell him the feedback he's gotten and leave it at that. One of the reasons people go to college is to mature and become independent thinkers. Let's hope Roy doesn't thwart any growth in those departments.

Link? There is no link. Other then obvious OAD players, you are not going to find players telling you how long they plan on staying in college. It's just common sense and with him declaring today backs up my comments. Consider it a lucky quess on my part. The guy was a Top 20 recruit and is the only player in the Top 20 in his class that has not yet declared for the NBA. And let me tell you another tidbit. The only reason Justin didn't jump last year was because he was not projected in the first round. Roy probably would not have liked that decision after only one year on the team. It remains to be seen whether he will be projected for the first round this year. Roy tell kids that he wants them to stay at least two years, but if they are projected in the first round after 2 years he will encourage them to go. That I know for a fact. Many fans don't want to hear this, but it's true. It has not been an issue because the Heels have not had any players projected in the first round lately. If Brice or Paige would have been projected as first round last year chances are they would have left last year. Roy mentioned this in his Final Four press conference. If Roy tells these kids that he wants them to stay 4 years I can assure you that he will not sign anyone in the Top 50.
 
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I must have missed the link in your post. Do you mind posting it again? TIA.

did you mean a link to the original poast about the feeling around the program when jackson was signed?

also, the opinion about jackson when he arrived could be made about 95% of players with his ranking...it's not exactly information that's within a program that only certain people would be privy to.
 
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Roy did get outcoached in the title game. Almost every possession, Nova switched every screen and it left a guard fronting the post in the paint with no help over the top and we for some odd reason refused to force it inside. If it wasnt for our best outside shooting performance of the season we wouldve been lucky to keep it within 10. It happens to every coach that has ever lived though. It doesnt take away that this was probably Roy's best coaching job at UNC since 2006 though. This was an underachieving team that had problems with both physical and mental toughness and in the second half of the season this team played angry and was night and day with the intensity they played defense with. Roy's not the best X's and O's guy, he never was and never will be, but no one can ever deny that all his players would run through a wall if he asked them to.

I thought after the last couple of years that the game had passed him by and he should walk away before he ruins his legacy, after watching the turnaround this year I hope he stays 10 more years, and you're crazy if you don't feel the same.

I disagree, Nova fronted the post and worked really hard to deny easy passes over the top of the fronted post. The rotations were strong and their position denial shall I nicely say were very physical. The physical denial of position for our post men was not going to be called by that set of refs, so Roy adjusted by having his guards drive more to try to draw the front man and slip or finish and Joel had some success with that.

One area I did not like and Haywood hammerred this point in his game call, Meeks was stuck down low way to much and that clogged things up. Meeks really needed to take his defender up higher to allow Brice more room to get around the front, his staying down low like he did limited Brice to only 1 side to slip the front. Truth is Brice did not have the same kind of game he had for the last several games in that title game. He got some shots in the middle when he was able to slip the fronting, didn't drop them. Brice also had some spots were he was isolated on a guard and we could not find him with the ball. That was part our guard being closely guarded with length (making the entry pass hard) and Brice not really setting up great position to take advantage of it.

That really was not on Roy, it was more on the players not executing and physical denial being allowed without whistles being blown. I would have liked to have seen us go to more small ball with 2 wings and pulling Meeks to the bench, that spreads us out better and it makes it easier for us to switch off screens, nova was switching everything nearly. Hicks got foul trouble again, Brice had foul trouble in that first half and never seemed to be able to get going, I think the physical nature of the game surprised him and took him out of his rythem. There is no way a 6'5" wing is going to successfully keep brice from any position he wants to establish in the paint unless Brice is being held, Brice is to long and his feet are to good for that to happen. But inside the paint stuff is not called to the extent things are called up top but there was a ton of grabbing and holding going on against our bigs that just was not called and truth is the players did not react well to it either. I mean, we have played duke at duke, not like we have not played teams that hold our big men to keep them out of position, you have to play thru that, once you see how a game is being called you have to play thru it and we didn't do that.
 
also, the opinion about jackson when he arrived could be made about 95% of players with his ranking...it's not exactly information that's within a program that only certain people would be privy to.

Well, I think that's the point Steat is making. And you're both projecting the sentiments of the masses onto Jackson. I'm not saying that he doesn't want to go. It's a shame that it's come to the point where if you're a top 20 recruit and you don't leave school after the first year or two, there's something wrong with you. But what I've argued here as well as our thread on OOTB, is that kids shouldn't feel obligated to go because "it helps with recruiting" or because "this draft class is weaker than next years". Maybe, just maybe,...and I know this might sound crazy, but maybe Jackson likes being a college kid. Or maybe he wants to get a degree. Or maybe he's not ready for the rigors of NBA life just yet. Or maybe he feels he's not ready from a skills standpoint.
 
and I know this might sound crazy, but maybe Jackson likes being a college kid. Or maybe he wants to get a degree. Or maybe he's not ready for the rigors of NBA life just yet. Or maybe he feels he's not ready from a skills standpoint.

not crazy at all...sounds like a better plan or thought process to me, but i'd like to see it be a consistent thought process, not a rare one.
 
Well, I think that's the point Steat is making. And you're both projecting the sentiments of the masses onto Jackson. I'm not saying that he doesn't want to go. It's a shame that it's come to the point where if you're a top 20 recruit and you don't leave school after the first year or two, there's something wrong with you. But what I've argued here as well as our thread on OOTB, is that kids shouldn't feel obligated to go because "it helps with recruiting" or because "this draft class is weaker than next years". Maybe, just maybe,...and I know this might sound crazy, but maybe Jackson likes being a college kid. Or maybe he wants to get a degree. Or maybe he's not ready for the rigors of NBA life just yet. Or maybe he feels he's not ready from a skills standpoint.

I will say, Jackson is a different type of mindset from the more typical recruit these days, I think in large part to his being home schooled with family values so well taught. he is IMO more of a throw back kind of kid, as much UNC student as player. While he of course could not help but consider one & done to the NBA, I don't think with him he had the time line most others have. I think with him it has been more let me see how good I can become and then see what that opens up for me but my education is important in both academics as well as basketball. I think that means he more than most will want to feel he is as ready as he can be not just to be drafted but to play in the NBA.

So many these days seem to be concerned ONLY with getting to the NBA, they will worry about being able to pay there once they get there. Roy preps his players to be able to play once they get there and that mind set has maybe cost us a few of the more talented guys. I think Jackson looks at things more as Roy does, Roy will never hold a kid back but developing the skills you have to be ready to use in the NBA takes a while, it takes longer than rolling the ball out and telling him to go do what you did in AAU.

This mindset that has come in over the last few years of a kid thinking, "I have to go now or I may not be able to get there at all", really bothers me. I says to me you are not really all that confident in your ability, you are not willing or maybe it is able to work on the flaws in your game? Once you are in the NBA do ya really think those flaws are not going to show themselves, do you really think showing up with hidden flaws in your game is going to make it easier for you to get that coveted second contract at number you dream of?

I don't see anything wrong with a kid feeling he needs to work on his game and mature while getting his education but the NBA punishes a kid for doing that. I don't think there is anything wrong with a kid that leaves high school and decides to enter the work force but the NBA punishes a kid for wanting that as well. And yet the NBA wonders why so many of its players display questionable character?

If you must have the rookie salary cap structure then you should allow a kid to start that clock as soon as he feels he is able to and that means the one & done rule is awful. if you feel you need to see a kids talent on display more, if you feel you need to see a kid develop under college coaching then the rookie salary cap structure is awful. Remove one of these and the other can be seen as making sense but the 2 together makes no sense and in the end it hurts the kids, not so much the mega talent kid but that kid that has the later develoment of skill need, like Brice, like Marcus, and yeah, like Jackson.
 
I'll say that as a parent, the new rules make it almost a no brainer for kids to workout and get good Insight from the next level to make an educated decision.

To play devils advocate, those same workouts can also work to highlight weaknesses and limitations that otherwise wouldn't be as apparent maybe a year down the road.

I think hicks, Jackson and Berry would benefit from the process this year. Anybody else is wasting their time.
 
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