Blah blah blah. Go back to the hole in which you came from and enjoy our domination this season.
Will Duke miss NCAA Tournament?
- Thread starter mjrocks23
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Blah blah blah. Go back to the hole in which you came from and enjoy our domination this season.
I have no doubt this little fella is a catcher. I also have no doubt he's been one all his life.
mike the bench is Chase Jeter...6 kids play and the bench is jeter/obi/vrank...only jeter is a mickey d and he just isnt ready....his playing time is truely on him at the moment
why is the new pitch we are recruiting mostly OAD??....we have been landing 1 bonafide OAD per class as of late and 3-4 year players....YES we had 3 OAD this season off of a natty run, but jones and winslow didnt have that expectation, they played their way into that distinction with stellar play and a natty to go along with, they got a long audition going 35-4.....great class this year w/ ingram the OAD if he so chooses....and next years monster class featuring the #1 and #2 guy along w/ 2-3 year guy jackson and 4 year guy delaurier....this season amile jefferson was the one player we could ill afford to lose and even that, their 4 losses have been 1 possession losses that they were in to the very end, NO BLOWOUTS, yet
K is chasing the wins. I guess I don't blame him as that's what he's paid to do. But I used to respect the way he ran the duke program. It was a program that was about duke students that played ball well. Now it's about hired mercenaries trying to get K another championship. I just didn't think K was that shallow. I never liked K before. But I at least thought he promoted the right way of running a basketball program. Now I see he's just chasing wins. That's disappointing. But whatever. He's not my guy.
gsd, he is still recruiting the same type kids.....the difference is the times, more want the league and money right now.....should he have not recruited parker and okafor just because they were seen as OAD.....so roy must be chasing wins as well because he recruited the same OAD kids, they just chose other destinations and roy would have gladly taken them in...if you guys were landing them, your tunes would be slightly different in regards to OAD, but since they have not chosen unc its easy to rail against it
The only seasons we are talking about is last year and this year. 3 OAD's last year and a couple of big time recruits (Jeter and Thornton) who don't pan out as frosh this year and voila.
You can make that argument but it's only a guess. What happened with Barnes? He was a OAD kid that stayed 2 years? Know why? Because Roy attempts to create a culture that is about investment in the school. Everybody keeps talking about how Roy is going after the OAD kids like K and Cal. But then you always say, "they didn't choose UNC". Well, they didn't choose UNC because Roy doesn't promote the OAD system at UNC. If Giles comes to UNC, he's not OAD. That's why he didn't choose UNC. And I'm perfectly ok with that. You can have your hired mercenaries that don't give a f*ck about the duke program other than using it as springboard to the NBA.
QFT
And dook fans just can't grasp this. A Fresh!an has to be definitively better to start over a more senior player at UNC, not so at dook or UK. The lil' General is indeed chasing wins at all cost. Can you sat egomaniac?
But Boogie, Jeter-Obi would BOTH get PT with Roy and you know it. Especially with as thin a bench as y'all have. Don't you honestly see Jeter transferring after the season? If he can't get pt with this thin bench he sure as heck won't get it next season. But I guess y'all do lose Jefferson and Plum don't you? Even MORE reason to get Jeter some pt now. This was a top 15 kid wasn't he? Just makes no sense to me.
Yeah but boogie, is the cart before or after the horse? Joel James has played pretty well for us this season but that is only because he given PT since his freshman season. Kenny Williams and Luke Mayes are getting some PT now, they are not what they will be but they will become much better players down the road because of the PT they are getting now. UNC has a deep bench because we play our deep bench and we play them not just in mop up minutes, we play them in game close minutes. That is what forges our depth on our bench. You invest PT in those players and they begin to help you win games but if you stick them on the bench, especially your upper classmen and cater only to the incoming freshman stars your bench withers on the vine.
Don't you ever ask, when duke is blowing out some little no chance to win school early season why those bench players do not get some solid PT? But rather they seem to enjoy beating a team by 50 more than getting some of their players that need development court time solid minutes? Duke goes 6-8 deep pretty much every season, UNC goes 8-10 deep every season because we play more guys earlier so they will be productive later on when we really need them to be.
What's ironic is that I remember in mid and late 90's when Heels only went about 6-7 deep and would have so much trouble in HIS because the ac was off and k ran 8-9 guys in all game and often just won because of fresh legs. K had a couple extra guys setting 10-15 minutes a game and his starters were fresh in crunch time
It's comical how the dookies are hanging all their problems on the Jefferson injury. The kid is an average player at best, and won't be drafted to the NBA, but sure, continue the narrative that he's the difference between an unranked Duke team and a national championship contender. 
Yeah bubba but the difference is back then players spent most of their 4 years in the college game. Now days they leave so early that you have to develop your bench cause that guy on your bench today may have to start for you next year.
PG is a big issue for Dook as well, but Dook is getting killed on the boards right now and Jefferson is a quality rebound guy. I dont understand why the Rice transfer does not play more, Jeter I get because he is fouling out in 6 mins.It's comical how the dookies are hanging all their problems on the Jefferson injury. The kid is an average player at best, and won't be drafted to the NBA, but sure, continue the narrative that he's the difference between an unranked Duke team and a national championship contender.
I don't see him transferring because his pt is all on him...now next season it's all him at the moment...but yeah he should get some more time, but have you seen him play yet....??..just not ready yet
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Honestly, no I have not seen him play. Don't see much of y'all til we play.
K hasn't changed the game has changed. K recruits the same players he always has. He recruited Kobe and Sean Livingston among others. He recruited Chris Webber who lets be honest would probably only be a one year player today. Would Grant Hill stick around in today's game after being a key player for a national title team like he was his freshman year? Jabari Parker, rivers, Irving, deng look at these kids backgrounds it's the same kind of kid it's ALWAYS been
Barnes stayed 2 years because the NBA had a lock-out. Wish they would EVERY year.
Obi can't move very well. I've seen speculation of weight, conditioning, bad knees, and not keeping up mentally. There has been no official word, but in any case, he has looked like a rugby player that got on the wrong bus. His attitude is A+ though, which is why he was considered in the first place.
It's comical how the dookies are hanging all their problems on the Jefferson injury. The kid is an average player at best, and won't be drafted to the NBA, but sure, continue the narrative that he's the difference between an unranked Duke team and a national championship contender.
It's not that Jefferson is an AA. With K having lost all faith in Jeter, it's that we have absolutely no frontcourt depth -- which not only creates significant fatigue issues, but forces Duke to change how it plays to address foul trouble. In fact, Duke actually had a halftime lead in its 3 losses. For instance, in Duke's losses to Clemson and ND, particularly, the games turned completely when Brandon and/or Plumlee got into foul trouble -- as opponent's crushed Duke inside when the bigs were replaced with Jeter/Obi/Matt Jones and/or Duke was forced into playing a soft zone -- a zone which got absolutely decimated. Clemson, in particular, struggled to score against Duke's man-to-man all night -- and the entire game shifted in the last 10 minutes when Duke lost a 48-40 lead at the exact point when Plumlee/Jefferson picked up 4 fouls. Those foul troubles wouldn't exist and/or could be overcome if Amile/Plumlee/Ingram were splitting 80 minutes -- as opposed to having Plumlee/Ingram trying to fight inside for 80 minutes with only 10 available fouls.
Further, while MPIII has actually played pretty well at times, he struggles to defend and rebound against agile bigs. That really was devastating against Syracuse, where Duke gave up 26 Offensive Rebounds to 24 Duke defensive rebounds. I've never seen a number like that before. And that was largely driven by Tyler Roberson, who got 12 offensive rebounds over plumlee. Jefferson is athletically far better suited to keep someone like Roberson off the glass.
In short, getting Jefferson back is a very big deal. Is Duke a great team with Jefferson? No. With Jefferson,however, it is a very good team that can be dangerous in a wide open year where mediocrity pervades college basketball. Duke's going to rack up some losses down the stretch b/c of the quality of the competition. But, IMO, it's probably a top 3-4 team in the ACC when fully healthy -- and frankly would likely have been 7-0 in the league had he been available. If Jefferson can fully make his way back by mid-February, I think Duke will be in the unfamiliar position of having a chance to exceed expectations.
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I just don't buy that 5 minutes of sporadic playing time as a Freshman really does much for a kid's basketball development beyond helping a kid's confidence stay up, and minimizing the chance of a transfer. Joel James has played pretty well. True. But so has Marshall Plumlee -- a guy who really didn't play a meaningful minute in his first 2 seasons. Ryan Kelly is in the NBA now, and was a very good college player his last 2 seasons. Ryan too hardly played as a true freshman on the 2010 national title squad. Grayson, last year, was in the witness protection program until Sheed got dismissed. And, yet, he continued to improve into a solid contributor last year, and a star player as a soph.
I don't have a problem with Roy playing more guys -- as it's something that is essential to ensuring that UNC can play at the pace it would like to play. However, I don't think a couple isolated minutes here or there significantly alter a kid's development. Most of the improvement comes from practice, skill development, and work in the weight room. It doesn't come from getting cycled in for 2 minutes around a TV timeout where the freshman barely even breaks a sweat before he's taken out.
As for why UNC has a deep bench -- that's also obvious. It has a deep bench b/c it has a lot of highly-rated kids who are still in college. If you look at UNC, they start 2 seniors, a jr. who was a McAA, and two former 5* recruits who are sophs. Then, off the bench, UNC brings in a Sr.. big James), a jr. big who was a 5* recruit (Hicks), a soph. former 5* prospect who was a McAA (Pinson), and a a Jr. guard who was pretty highly regarded as well (Britt). That's a lot of veterans with decent talent. The freshman you're mentioning are the 10th and 11th men at UNC. They are hardly critical pieces to UNC's squad. Duke's just not in the same situation b/c it had 3 freshmen declare for the NBA last season.
Soooo you basically have rambled on and disproved your contention. "Grayson was in witness protection until sheed fecked up". but then he plays and plays well. Same could be true of Jeter and Thornton if they were to ever play.
Eh, not really. Derrick Thornton is averaging 25.5 minutes per game. Even Chase was averaging more than 8 minutes per game this season before K removed him from the rotation a few games ago. In fact, Jeter played 6, 7, and 8 minutes in Duke's 3 opening ACC wins. The difference though is that, unlike Grayson last year -- who couldn't get on the floor b/c he was behind a ton of talent, Jeter is not playing b/c he's simply ineffective at this point. In his last 12 minutes of on-court action, he's committed 10 fouls, collected 2 rebounds, and scored 0 points. 10 fouls and 2 rebounds in 12 minutes will get you benched. I don't care who you are. The kid literally fouled out in 4 minutes of action against Clemson. In 25 total minutes of ACC play, Jeter has scored 2 points, collected 3 rebounds, and committed 13 fouls.
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...Some forget (conveniently) that Marvin Williams, Brandon Wright and (could have been ) Harrison Barnes were one and done recruits! Actually, it is my personal belief that K misread what Roy Williams was actually recruiting (not always one and done players). Therefore he thought going whole hog into three OAD's last season was the way to go (imo). Duke is paying for it this season in a big way. Very lucky that Cat was injured in the second half on Saturday (All jmho)...
(1) I don't think K's recruiting was impacted by UNC as it was by seeing you UK win a title and go to multiple final fours with teams loaded with freshmen; and (2) last year, I genuinely think K was surprised to have 3 OAD guys. I think most people around Duke thought Tyus was going to be a 2-3 year player, and frankly he probably would still be here if he had not played the way he did late in the season in some very high pressure games. And even Justise Winslow was hardly an obvious OAD guy. If you go back and look at the rankings, a lot of services had Justise ranked below Justin Jackson, for instance. I think the 3 OAD thing was partly good fortune -- in that Justise far exceeded expectations on Day 1, and that Tyus's performance in big games far exceeded any reasonable expectation for a true freshman with limited athleticism.
I'd add that, on paper, this year's class isn't all that different from last year's group. However, in reality, this group is only going to produce 1 OAD. The fact that a kid has a good ranking doesn't necessarily mean that he will end up being ready for the NBA after year 1. The reality of last year is that they hit the jackpot in having 2 kids who clearly were physically and mentally ready for the NBA immediately, and a third kid who had the game / mental maturity of a Sr.
As for paying, I don't think anyone at Duke is upset about how things worked out. Having more OAD creates some issue; but it also led to a title last season and has them well-positioned to make a run next season. In the end of the day, programs like Duke are judged by banners. Not based on whether they finished with a 3 seed or a 6 seed in a year where the talent level is a bit depressed.
good one ahhh....Duke didn't expect 3 OAD, just 1 OAD, but I am sure they are happy with the payoff, I know I am
If the fact they're still ranked after how they've looked this year is any indication - yes, the committee will put them in the tournament even if they lose out from here.
Which is fine with me. Watching them bow out in the first round never gets old.
Which is fine with me. Watching them bow out in the first round never gets old.
Bottom line bossman is UNC bench is deeper because we have played our bench and we have not loaded up on one & done players. Roy does not park his upper classmen just to cater to a one & done kid. Dukies love to point out that Roy recruits a lot of one & done kids but they never seem to have an answer for why we don't get a lot of them. It is actually kind of easy thing to answer, Roy is not going to strand his upper classmen on his bench just so his latest one & done phenom can get his 38mins and enjoy beating a little school by 50.
When it comes to a bench, use it or lose it, Roy builds his bench, it does not just magically happen. Yeah, we have 2 star players that are seniors right now but they did not come in as stars and even now their PT is shared with guys off our bench.IF you bring in 3 one & done star talents in a recruiting year that you are already in need of a nice class then you have to realize those 3 are going to have to be replaced next season, don't bitch cause your bench is thin if your recruiting did not build talent on your bench that would not be one & done.
And yet Luke & Kenny are not getting PT, not just when we are up 50, in games where the out come is still in doubt. Play them now and they are ready later, don't and they wither on the vine.
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