Will Marquise lead the team in rushing again this year and..

[UNC71-00]

if he does so, can we be a contender?

I'm not saying we contend either way, but is there any chance we can contend with Marquise getting the bulk of the carries? My question is will Fedora look to limit his carries or use Trubisky more, in spite of how the 2 QB system worked last year?

Look, I really like MW. But we need to use our RBs more if we are going to get to the next level.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Originally posted by UNC71-00:

Look, I really like MW. But we need to use our RBs more if we are going to get to the next level.

This is it, in a nutshell. It's hard to pinpoint exactly the cause of us vastly under-utilizing our RB's last season, but I'd say it's safe to assume it was a combination of poor blocking, poor play-calling, and poor ability for MW to "pick his battles" in terms of when to hand it off versus keep it on the QB read option.

All three of those phases need to improve this season. Williams cannot and should not be the leading rusher (in terms of attempts and in terms of yards). He took way, way too many hits last season. We have a stable of running backs and need to let them loose. Personally, I'm very concerned about the offensive line. Everyone keeps saying how Coach Kap has done such a good job with the O-Line.........I'm not seeing it to be honest. I expect that unit to be substantially better this season.

 

[JamestownJim]

If he leads us in rushing this year, we are in deep doodoo.

 

[Raising Heel]

Originally posted by TarHeelNation11:

Originally posted by UNC71-00:

Look, I really like MW. But we need to use our RBs more if we are going to get to the next level.

This is it, in a nutshell. It's hard to pinpoint exactly the cause of us vastly under-utilizing our RB's last season, but I'd say it's safe to assume it was a combination of poor blocking, poor play-calling, and poor ability for MW to "pick his battles" in terms of when to hand it off versus keep it on the QB read option.

All three of those phases need to improve this season. Williams cannot and should not be the leading rusher (in terms of attempts and in terms of yards). He took way, way too many hits last season. We have a stable of running backs and need to let them loose. Personally, I'm very concerned about the offensive line. Everyone keeps saying how Coach Kap has done such a good job with the O-Line.........I'm not seeing it to be honest. I expect that unit to be substantially better this season.

This. All of it. There's too much talent at the RB spot for our QB to be the leading rushing for the third straight season. It's time for the OL to put up or shut up. If we have another season like the last one, Kap should start looking for work elsewhere.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Yes, Williams will lead the team in rushing.

But I don't think it's an automatic fail if he does. I wholeheartedly agree that we should utilize our RBs more. But with the stable we have, that's a lot of reps sharing. Williams is always on the field. Because of that, and because Williams will have runs when things break down (not called runs), I still think he leads the team in rushing.

 

[WoadBlue]

Originally posted by Raising Heel:

Originally posted by TarHeelNation11:

Originally posted by UNC71-00:

Look, I really like MW. But we need to use our RBs more if we are going to get to the next level.

This is it, in a nutshell. It's hard to pinpoint exactly the cause of us vastly under-utilizing our RB's last season, but I'd say it's safe to assume it was a combination of poor blocking, poor play-calling, and poor ability for MW to "pick his battles" in terms of when to hand it off versus keep it on the QB read option.

All three of those phases need to improve this season. Williams cannot and should not be the leading rusher (in terms of attempts and in terms of yards). He took way, way too many hits last season. We have a stable of running backs and need to let them loose. Personally, I'm very concerned about the offensive line. Everyone keeps saying how Coach Kap has done such a good job with the O-Line.........I'm not seeing it to be honest. I expect that unit to be substantially better this season.

This. All of it. There's too much talent at the RB spot for our QB to be the leading rushing for the third straight season. It's time for the OL to put up or shut up. If we have another season like the last one, Kap should start looking for work elsewhere.

It's not just, evcen pirmarily, the OL issues. Think of how Williams runs. He is not Pat White so fats anbd sneaky qucik he can use his feet to outflank a horde of defenders who never got blocked. Williams is a downhill runner, a power runner. If the OL blocks well enough for him to pick up yards, it blocks well enough for RBs to pick up yards.

The main issue with Williams is that running the ball is what he does best, by a long shot. It is crazy to play a QB and not have him do, often, what he does best. If Williams is the QB, we will se a bunch of carries by the QB.

The more the offense knows that, the more its players know that there will be fewer RB carries and fewer passes to WRs. They just accept that the QB will run a whole lot.

And that, the acgtual number of QB runs and the attitude of acceptance, means that RBs and WRs will not be developed as they could be and should be.

And that is why I see the QB leading the team in carries as at best a Pyrrhic Victory. Even when we score a bunch and win games, the way we move the ball and score is a detriment over the long term. It delays development of areas other than QB running the ball.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Originally posted by gunslingerdick:
Yes, Williams will lead the team in rushing.

But I don't think it's an automatic fail if he does. I wholeheartedly agree that we should utilize our RBs more. But with the stable we have, that's a lot of reps sharing. Williams is always on the field. Because of that, and because Williams will have runs when things break down (not called runs), I still think he leads the team in rushing.

Good point about MW on the field at all times, but even so, no reason Logan and another back (Hood? Morris? Ty'Son?) shouldn't both rush for more yards than Marquise. We run so many plays that even with the RB substitutions, the RB's have plenty of opportunities to rack up yards. Plus, some of those quick-hitter passes count as rushing yards as well.

Williams rushed it 173 times for 788 yards (and remember that 788 number is including deducted yards for sacks?). Logan had the next most attempts at 119. I'd like to see Williams rush no more than 100 times (5 less carries per game) and rush for no more than 500 yards. He needs to let his backs do the work*

*offensive line permitting

 

[ball4me2]

We have enough returning OL + developed depth + high potential RB's to have 2 of those RB's rush for over 1000 yards . . . but that isn't the question, is it.

If MW is the starting QB then yes he will be the leading rusher . . . it's who he is, that is what he does best and he will gather the stats to be considered a special player. If that is what happens then I agree with the above comment . . . we are in deep doo doo. For the team to meet its potential then MW will have to change his stripes and make the players around him better or the coaches will have to consider other options.

One definition on insanity is: continuing to do things the same way, but expecting a different result. Unless there is real change expect the same results and you will probably be right in your assessment.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Originally posted by TarHeelNation11:

Plus, some of those quick-hitter passes count as rushing yards as well.

But those passes aren't going to runners. Maybe Logan can split out wide, but those passes are most likely going to receivers who are split out wide and take a step backwards to receive a lateral instead of a pass. And those receivers would never get enough "rushes" to ever threaten being the team's leading rusher.

Originally posted by TarHeelNation11:

Williams rushed it 173 times for 788 yards (and remember that 788 number is including deducted yards for sacks?). Logan had the next most attempts at 119. I'd like to see Williams rush no more than 100 times (5 less carries per game) and rush for no more than 500 yards. He needs to let his backs do the work*

I would be curious to know how many of those runs were called runs for Marquise. Let's ball park 20 runs of his being just trying to make something happen when the play broke down. I imagine that we'll be more proficient on offense this year - meaning less 3 and outs. If that's the case, that's more reps for Williams but not necessarily more reps for any one back. Throw in the fact that if we're more proficient offensively with less 3 and outs, many of the future play calls that weren't there last year because of the 3 and outs, will be passes - increasing the likelihood of Williams possibly having to make something happen with his legs. And I just don't see Fedora making a concerted effort to run the ball with the backs more. He likes Williams carrying the ball. That's why I think Marquise will again lead the team in rushing and why I think there's virtually no way we see a 1000 yard rusher (other thread). The one thing in favor of Williams running less is the health of Hood. He missed a ton of game action last year which obviously meant less carries for him and more for the others. But Hood is the between the tackles guy. That's also where Williams likes to run it and is successful in running it. So Hood's health wouldn't impact Logan or Morris nearly as much as it would impact Williams.

But again, with all that said, I still think Marquise is the leading rusher although as I stated in the other thread, I think he, along with Hood and Logan all go for 500-700 yards.

 

[Mistercvr4]

It's seem the main focus is about how many times MW has ran the ball, however anyone that played the game knows that you're big ugliess can make or break a team. The games is won in the trenches. Last Oline couldn't run block their way out of a wet paper bag at times. Please don't mention the passing blocking that was two hard on the eyes. However, I did notice a few times where they seem to have it all together and our RB's got some nice lanes to run in and QB's got time to go thru their progression they made plays. But I'm claiming that this year our Oline will be more in beast mode rather WTH mode.
Go Heels.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Originally posted by Mistercvr4:

It's seem the main focus is about how many times MW has ran the ball, however anyone that played the game knows that you're big ugliess can make or break a team. The games is won in the trenches. Last Oline couldn't run block their way out of a wet paper bag at times. Please don't mention the passing blocking that was two hard on the eyes. However, I did notice a few times where they seem to have it all together and our RB's got some nice lanes to run in and QB's got time to go thru their progression they made plays. But I'm claiming that this year our Oline will be more in beast mode rather WTH mode.
Go Heels.

I think most people that post here understand the game well enough to know that you have to have the blocking to be successful. But let's assume that the blocking is excatly the same as last year. It doesn't benefit the backs or Williams. It's a detriment to both. Neither has an advantage there. If anything, poor run blocking would lead to more Williams carries. Fedora views him as more reliable plus, he's big and can often make something out of nothing simply by falling forward.

I'm just scared that the book might be out on Williams after moo called him out and then backed it up. Get to Williams early and hit him hard and he'll start pulling the trigger quicker on tucking it and running.

 

[Mistercvr4]

gunslingerdick- I understand what you saying. But it never fails that everything this topic comes up someone loves to through and take shoot at our starting QB. Again, it really doesn't matter who's the QB if our Oline can't run or pass block then it's gonna be a long season.

I think Coach Fedora knew his Oline would struggle and seem get manhandled at times let with MW ability to make plays with his feet seem to be only thing that made the offense look good. Again, I would love to see us have 2 1k RB's and at 700 and 500 but when the dreams meets reality it isn't always as grand as we picture it.

Nevertheless, I'm praying that our Oline and Dline can put it all together because again the games are won in the trenches.

 

[gteeitup]

no...and i hope not

 

[HeelFan58]

I pray the OL has improved because it was manhandled by a mediocre moo DL last year.

 

[ball4me2]

Originally posted by Mistercvr4:


It's seem the main focus is about how many times MW has ran the ball, however anyone that played the game knows that you're big ugliess can make or break a team. The games is won in the trenches. Last Oline couldn't run block their way out of a wet paper bag at times. Please don't mention the passing blocking that was two hard on the eyes. However, I did notice a few times where they seem to have it all together and our RB's got some nice lanes to run in and QB's got time to go thru their progression they made plays. But I'm claiming that this year our Oline will be more in beast mode rather WTH mode.
Go Heels.

The other issue is the OL being in a 3 point stance needs help from a qb that can make the correct reads on the defense. If qb makes wrong read or scrambles too much the OL will not have a chance to be successful, but will appear to be worse than they truly are.

 

[6666Heel]

Originally posted by HeelFan58:
I pray the OL has improved because it was manhandled by a mediocre moo DL last year.

I don't know what happened at the end of last season, but this team, (O-Line included) look GREAT against a good dook team in derm last season. Then the following week, looked as if they'd never practiced blocking or tackling when they played the W. Wake Tech Aggies IN CHAPEL HILL. Dook, no doubt, was a BIG win. but to turn in the pitiful performances they did in the season finale and in the bowl game, I gotta believe that something happened that absolutely devastated team morale, concentration, esprit de corps, confidence, whatever, in the aftermath of the dook win. .

Whatever the reason, last year's O-line, when healthy, was significantly better than what showed on the field in those last 2 outings, and now with great recruits bringing "new blood" to add to a year's experience for last yr's young group, this season's O-line SHOULD be far improved (including much better depth) over last year, assuming that whatever issues impacted this team in the two games last year have been.rectified, I expect a greatly improved performance in terms of run (and pass) blocking over last season. As a result, I also anticipate that the run offense will be tweaked with fewer "read option" plays, and much greater reliance on the running of Logan, Hood & Co.

 

[Baby Debo]

66666 Heel,

I take offense to you comparing Wake Tech to cow molester u!!! I got my Associate's degree from Wake Tech, no cow molesting taught there.


Lol......

 

[6666Heel]

Sorry 'bout the "slight" Baby D. But you will notice I referred to "W." Wake Tech - not THE Wake Tech. I'll try to avoid such confusion in the future.

 

[Mistercvr4]

Again it doesn't matter who's the Qb is if that Oline can't sustain it block for more than 2 or 3 second then not even Peyton Manning or Arron Rogers would have a change to read any defense. If the Oline was constant with their pass and run blocking then none of this would matter. Close your eyes to the fact you you like, but real talk if our Oline doesn't become more aggressive then it's going be a long season. Anyone can true to spend it a million times, but the games are won in the Trenches

 

[gunslingerdick]

Originally posted by Mistercvr4:
Again it doesn't matter who's the Qb is if that Oline can't sustain it block for more than 2 or 3 second then not even Peyton Manning or Arron Rogers would have a change to read any defense. If the Oline was constant with their pass and run blocking then none of this would matter. Close your eyes to the fact you you like, but real talk if our Oline doesn't become more aggressive then it's going be a long season. Anyone can true to spend it a million times, but the games are won in the Trenches

I would have gone with Tom Brady and Andrew Luck but that's just me.

 

[Doc Holliday-JB]

Contend in what?

 

[uncboy10]

Coaches have clearly indicated they want to reduce the load on Marquise throughout the game. I would expect the majority of called QB runs will come out of necessity on 3rd downs and in the red zone. Other than that there is no reason this team cant establish a dominant running game with the depth and quality they have at RB. The dook game last year is what I (and every other Carolina fan) hope and somewhat expect to see more of this year. If the run game gets going, stopping Hollins and Switzer in particular will be nearly impossible.

All depends on o-line play for me. Coaches have said they want to reduce Marquise's carries so I don't see why they wouldn't. That being said, if Quise isn't going to run the ball, might as well put Mitch back there and get him ready. Mobility and hard running between the tackles is what Marquise does best, yet reading some of the posters on here you'd think he was the worst QB in the ACC.

Marquise will be all ACC this year. Carolina will win 10 games. Whiskey is good.

 

[Raising Heel]

Whiskey is good.

Now we're talkin'.

 

[scoutsupreme]

In terms of pure RB plays I agree....but.in terms of the read option if he gets a run read he better honor it....if that means he carries it 10 out if 10 read option calls so be it. If we ran a pro style with a true TE and a FB we wouldn't have to deal with this issue

 

[uncboy10]

Now we're talkin'.

In terms of pure RB plays I agree....but.in terms of the read option if he gets a run read he better honor it....if that means he carries it 10 out if 10 read option calls so be it. If we ran a pro style with a true TE and a FB we wouldn't have to deal with this issue

Of course "we" wouldn't. But Marquise would also be just about useless in that system.

That being said, in terms of the read option that was the point I was making about there not being any point in him being QB1 if they dont make the most of his legs. However, there is no reason for him to carry the bulk of the load running the ball. Find a middle ground that makes the best use of his skills, while minimizing his risk for injury. At a certain point you just gotta let him play if he's getting the job done.

There are a ton of freak athletes on the offensive side of the ball. The coaches need to find a way to distribute the ball to them better

 

[TarHeelNation11]

It all comes down to if the offensive line can block better this year. But as for getting RB's the ball, I'd love to see some two-back sets like someone posted above. Just some traditional (or as traditional as this style of offense will allow) draws up the middle

 

[ball4me2]

Of course "we" wouldn't. But Marquise would also be just about useless in that system.

That being said, in terms of the read option that was the point I was making about there not being any point in him being QB1 if they dont make the most of his legs. However, there is no reason for him to carry the bulk of the load running the ball. Find a middle ground that makes the best use of his skills, while minimizing his risk for injury. At a certain point you just gotta let him play if he's getting the job done.

There are a ton of freak athletes on the offensive side of the ball. The coaches need to find a way to distribute the ball to them better

You are really confusing me in how you are suggesting this works. What he does best is going to require him getting hit/tackled, which puts him directly into a higher risk for injury. What he does best means he will either get injured or he will be the man getting the major of stats. I agree we have a ton of excellent athlete and they need to be given opportunities to make plays, but that is not the strength of MW . . . so, what recommendations do you have for the coaches to better distribute the ball.

A running qb with questionable accuracy history is going to get a lot of 8 defensive players in the box, which will limit the running back success and place the OL in difficult blocking situations. I guess then we can talk about how the OL is not very good, our RB's aren't very good rushing the ball and therefore we need to let our qb do what he does best. Sounds like 2014 all over again, woohooo!

 

[mtpeke]

IF he runs again this year as much as last year that means we are in trouble. you QB should not be your leading RB too

 

[uncboy10]

You are really confusing me in how you are suggesting this works. What he does best is going to require him getting hit/tackled, which puts him directly into a higher risk for injury. What he does best means he will either get injured or he will be the man getting the major of stats. I agree we have a ton of excellent athlete and they need to be given opportunities to make plays, but that is not the strength of MW . . . so, what recommendations do you have for the coaches to better distribute the ball.

A running qb with questionable accuracy history is going to get a lot of 8 defensive players in the box, which will limit the running back success and place the OL in difficult blocking situations. I guess then we can talk about how the OL is not very good, our RB's aren't very good rushing the ball and therefore we need to let our qb do what he does best. Sounds like 2014 all over again, woohooo!

Just because running is his strongest attribute doesn't mean he needs to be the primary playmaker. So let him do what he does best, just do it less often is what I was trying to say.

If the o-line looks like they did in 2014 then yeah it will look a lot like 2014. I'm more worried about teams not needing to put 8 guys in the box to stop the run, which will allows teams to provide extra help on Switz and co.

 

[ball4me2]

If the opposition only needs 7 in the box to stop our running game, then we will be in trouble starting game one. Our OL will be better, our defense will be better and our skill positions more experienced . . . we have to hope that Trubisky and Henderson have improved greatly with the additional reps this spring.

 

[uncboy10]

If the opposition only needs 7 in the box to stop our running game, then we will be in trouble starting game one. Our OL will be better, our defense will be better and our skill positions more experienced . . . we have to hope that Trubisky and Henderson have improved greatly with the additional reps this spring.

Completely agree on all points. I think MT and CH making progress is inevitable, and I dont think there are many teams that will be able to stop the run with 7 guys in the box, assuming that Fed will stick with the run if it is working.

This is a big point, because having to put 8 in the box against the spread opens everything up. No coach with a functioning brain is going to call cover 0 with Switzer and Hollins on the field, but ff you go to 7 in the box, the read option becomes REAL dangerous, and if you leave 8 that means you've got a nickel LB type likely covering Switzer. Not fun for a D coordinator.

A LB covering pretty much any of our receivers is going to be flat out unfair. Quise just has to be accurate enough throwing the ball to expose mismatches. This offense is all about creating mismatches. If the o-line is good enough to establish a run, so that teams have to try and stop both dimensions, the offensive production will skyrocket. However if opposing D-lines continue to be able to get penetration with only three guys, then it's going to be another long year.