Withers
- Thread starter 1heel4life
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I think we will see a fairly better version of Withers next year..he seemed to be getting more comfortable in the system near years end! He will more than likely see more playing time, hopefully that gives him a boost of confidence! As long as he plays within himself and doesn’t try to do too much, he will be a good player for us this coming year!
Three other things:
1. He won't be playing behind Armando and Harrison.
2. He's a pretty good defender.
3. He runs the floor well.
If he rediscovers his 3pt touch, he could be serious trouble for our opponents.
The 3 ball wasn't even his worst play. Immediately afterwards he committed an and-one foul to give Nelson a 3pt play. Withers is just an extremely low IQ player.
Ok shooters sometimes learn to shoot
Athletic players sometimes learn to slow down
I think Withers will do the above better this year
Confused players sometimes have everything click
Low game-IQ players almost never improve enough to be trusted
- the question is which of these two options is Whithers
Athletic players sometimes learn to slow down
I think Withers will do the above better this year
Confused players sometimes have everything click
Low game-IQ players almost never improve enough to be trusted
- the question is which of these two options is Whithers
He's entering his 6th year of college. His low IQ play has been on display his entire career. Louisville fans used to call him "the king of unforced turnovers." His best season to date was when he played as an undersized center, and that makes sense. Because as a center he would spend most of his time in the paint using his athleticism to score and rebound, and not trying to dribble or be a playmaker.
I believe players can develop better jumpshots and ball skills through hard work. I believe they can get stronger physically through training. I don't think low IQ players can really change their stripes. So personally I hope Tyson, Washington, Lubin, High, and Brown all play well enough to keep Withers on the bench when it counts.
Dang, bringing the heat, I agree BTW!
The OP asked if we have seen the best of Jwit or if there is more that we have not seen. If we are talking last season as the full portion of his college career than yes, there is absolutely more. Frankly he showed more at LVille than he did for us last season.
JWit looked to me, did in the 2 scrimmage sessions as well, like a guy that tries to do to much from a belief that he should be seen as a top level player and in doing so to often proved that he isn't or at least has not yet been deserving of being considered top level. He forces things way to often, I have real basketball IQ questions and I don't enjoy saying that. Let the game come to you organically, stop going outside the offense, stop forcing things, stop trying to be the hero and just play your role to the best of your ability. The guy has big time talent but seems to have little feel for the game or how to handle situations within the game.
2 things I want to see him do right away, first, chill out with all the trey attempts. Second, stop with putting the ball on the floor and driving, you are not good at it. Rabid brought the heat with the question of low game IQ players almost never improve to the point of being trusted, sorry but my trust in JWit is severely challenged for that very reason.
I hope not/so. I would like to see him work on his mid-range catch and shoot game as well as using his size to aggressively take it to the rack when the opportunity presents. Also like to see him add a little upper body bulk in the off season .. he could easily carry another 10+lbs of muscle and it would be to his advantage. JWit may surprise some people this year .. in a good way.
Now i hope he starts and plays 30 minutes.
He’s been an inconsistent player for 4 years where he’s seen major PT? Hopefully he gets a little more consistent next season but I think he’s going to just be a role player either way.
The thing that separates what class you put a player (superstar, star, starter, etc) is how consistently they play at their good to great level. RJ played at that level for the vast majority of the season, so he’s a superstar for UNC. Withers played at a really high level like 7 times all season?
It would really help if he’s consistent in his role next season. This isn’t the most bouncy or athletic team. The only good athletes I can think of are Trimble, Withers, maybe Cadeau and the freshmen. So Withers is the only guy with some size with some vertical. It would really help if he were just a consistent role player.
The thing that separates what class you put a player (superstar, star, starter, etc) is how consistently they play at their good to great level. RJ played at that level for the vast majority of the season, so he’s a superstar for UNC. Withers played at a really high level like 7 times all season?
It would really help if he’s consistent in his role next season. This isn’t the most bouncy or athletic team. The only good athletes I can think of are Trimble, Withers, maybe Cadeau and the freshmen. So Withers is the only guy with some size with some vertical. It would really help if he were just a consistent role player.
Are you referencing Withers shooting a lot of 3s in scrimmages or in games? Because he shot only 20 3s last year.
I honestly don't think he provides much value if he isn't giving UNC 35% 3PT shooting on a decent volume.
He has 164 career turnovers and 71 assists. So unless he completely reverses that, which he probably won't, the best way to mitigate that problem is if he becomes a good catch-and-shoot 3PT shooter. That way he doesn't need to dribble or pass.
You have a big problem if you hurt the team by dribbling or passing, lol.
Jwit hit 17.6% of his treys last season, with all the rhubarb about Cadeau and his jump shooting, Cadeau hit 21.6% of his. So it doesn't matter if I am talking about the scrimmages or the last season results, he should only take a last second left on the clock trey.
What JWit needs to do, what he should have focused on last season, is first working within the offense, working within his strengths. His offense is more that of a slasher, making hard cuts and taking the pass to a strong finish. JWit is a really strong athlete and I think can be a + defender. But his decision making on the offensive end has to improve. Was it because he just didn't completely understand his role? I hope it was because if it wasn't then his basketball IQ has to be considered.
I do appreciate a player having big time confidence in his ability but it is a fine line that when crossed you get Caleb Love, where to much belief in your own ability leads you to poor decisions, that to often has the same result as a turn over and many times does lead directly to a turn over.
What JWit needs to do, what he should have focused on last season, is first working within the offense, working within his strengths. His offense is more that of a slasher, making hard cuts and taking the pass to a strong finish. JWit is a really strong athlete and I think can be a + defender. But his decision making on the offensive end has to improve. Was it because he just didn't completely understand his role? I hope it was because if it wasn't then his basketball IQ has to be considered.
I do appreciate a player having big time confidence in his ability but it is a fine line that when crossed you get Caleb Love, where to much belief in your own ability leads you to poor decisions, that to often has the same result as a turn over and many times does lead directly to a turn over.
And yet for almost the whole season he kept trying to dribble drive from the perimeter. Withers needs a red light on dribbling.
Still blows my mind that there are people who want this guy in our starting lineup.
You just mentioned the majority of the scholarship athletes were good athletes, yet you say this team is not athletic?🤔
I think this is the most athletic Carolina team in many years. Trimble, Jackson, Cadeau and Powell are Elite level athletes on the same team.
High has tremendous quick twitch fibers and terrific reach to go with that.
Withers is extremely athletic, but that athleticism doesn't always translate to good basketball play.
Lubin, Tysen, Washington and Davis are all at least average to above average athletes.
This is a very bad take on your part.
I don’t think I mentioned it but I think our frontcourt lacks athleticism. I think Jalen is a poor athlete but he has great length so that may neutralize that. I think Lubin is a pretty average athlete. And I think Tyson is an average athlete.
I’ll take your word on High but of the guys who will play the majority of minutes, not a ton of bounce.
Semantics but you have the percentages reversed. Withers made 4-20 3s last year, 20%. Cadeau made 10-53, 18.9%
Really neither volume is enough to say for sure either way IMO. But 20 attempts certainly isn’t enough.
The easiest way for Withers to excel in his role this year is to be a solid 3PT shooter. He’s at least been that in the past. He has never been a good decision maker and turnovers have always been a problem. So I’m guessing that’s not going to go in the opposite direction this season.
Also, people can like this or not but this team is going to need 3 high volume and relatively efficient 3PT shooters. It has 2. Someone else has to give them 4+ attempts per game or so and make 34%+. Unless Tyson and RJ are attempting 8 3s per game, this team will need to have firepower from 3 because they’re probably not getting paint scoring from a traditional 5.
I got my % DIRECTLY from THIS site, if you have issues about them take it up with Andrew Jones, not me. You do love to talk in terms of sample size, at what point do you toss out that broken record?
Now as for this team "going to need 3 high volume and "relatively efficient" 3pt shooters" Exactly what is "relatively efficient", 34% on 4 trey attempts a game? 34% shooting on 4 attempts a game is 4.08 points. So you need us to get 4pts in addition to RJ and Tyson? That is somehow your solution to how we win?
Did we have a chance to win last season? Last I heard, we were not only a 1 seed for the NCAAT but considered one of if not the hottest teams in the country. Yet how many marksmen did we have from the land of trey last season? WE had RJ hitting 41.6%, we had Ingram hitting 37.4% but as you offered for the second half of the season Ingram was only hitting 31%. Had Ryan hitting a smoking 34.3%, had Paxon burning the nets at 16.7%? Want to guess who our 3rd most efficient 3pt shooter was, it was Seth shooting 37.5% or and by the way, our most efficient 3pt shooter at 53.3%. Gosh, I just checked, ALL 3 of our most efficient 3pt shooters are STILL ON THIS TEAM!
Maybe it isn't all about 3pt shooting, maybe this isn't the NBA, what ya think? Maybe just maybe it is about over all shooting, not just taking more treys, maybe it is also about shooting 2pt baskets more efficiently, maybe hitting free throws (that BTW are only 1 point scores), maybe stopping the other team from scoring efficiently helps to?
You insist on making the same ole argument that never makes any real sense, you keep wanting people to believe that all you have to do is take more treys and everything will work out fine, makes no sense to me, never has. It is about being efficient over all shooting, making free throws, controlling the boards, and working on the defensive end. It is as if everything you ever learned about the sport came from playing a video game, UNC basketball is not a video game.
Relax, the Yahoo Rivals site is clearly wrong. It only counted up to 31 games so it didn't update after game 31.
And I've said a minimum of 4 attempts per game for an individual shooter. You do need some high-volume, good 3PT shooters to win at a big level. Especially today because most contending teams have that. So the 4.08 points is a flawed logic because you're assuming everyone is shooting the bare minimum.
For me 34% is a solid mark because that's the same effective FG percentage as a 51% 2PT shooter. And maybe excluding traditional 5 men, a 51% 2PT shooting season could be considered solid for many players. And that's also the minimum percentage for this exercise. Of course you would prefer to shoot greater than 34%. In my post I said "someone" which is one player (though I would love for more) because I'm assuming RJ and Tyson will be shooting and making a lot of 3s.
I didn't think this last year's team was on the same level of UConn or Purdue. So does that mean they had a chance? They had a chance if they got some breaks in their bracket. However you want to define that is fine. For me, I didn't think they were among the best true title-contending teams. It's hard to pinpoint a macro reason why they didn't win IMO. I think they just lost a tough game against Alabama where UNC's best player played a terrible game.
And I never said it was all about 3PT shooting. But for a team that doesn't project to have a traditional scoring 5 next year, I think 3PT shooting will be really important.
And this shouldn't be controversial. Every one of UNC's title-winning teams in recent years had multiple really good 3PT shooters.
The game was played very differently in 2005 so there was less 3PT volume.
McCants 5.1 3PA/game, 42.3%
Felton: 4.4 3PA/game, 44.0%
Scott: 3.4 3PA/game, 35.7%
Jawad: 2.8 3PA/game: 38.1%
Marvin: 1.2 3PA/game: 43.2%
And I think you can safely say a huge improvement in Felton's 3PT shooting played a big part in winning it all in 2005. And not for nothing, Illinois is hugely dependent on the 3PT shot and shot a ton of 3s and were like 6 points away from going undefeated that season.
2009 (again from an era where teams shot fewer 3s):
Ellington: 5.4 3PA/game, 41.7%
Green: 4.8 3PA/game, 41.8%
Lawson: 3.1 3PA/game, 47.2%
This team probably wins it all either way, but Lawson's 3PT improvement turned a really good team into a devastating and almost unbeatable team.
The 2017 team only had 2 really good 3PT shooters. Kenny Williams was inconsistent all year at 33.8%. But Justin Jackson went from a 29% 3PT shooter to a 37% 3PT shooter and I think that was the main reason they were able to win it all.
And I don't think you're understanding my point. I've never said the only way to win is to make and take a lot of 3s. But if you don't have enough 3PT shooting, then you need to get your offense from elsewhere. And I don't see a Sean May or Tyler Hansbrough on this team where a big will score 20-25 pts and get to the FT line 8x/game. I don't see a dominant offensive rebounding team like the 2016-17 team. So if those things are true, you need to get offense from somewhere.
But while it's never all about 1 thing, I do think Cadeau's 3PT development and a reliable third perimeter shooting player (or more) will be really important factors determining how far this team goes in March.
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And with Lawsons improved deep ball in 09 I would like to think that if EC shooting a serviceable percentage around 30%, the outcome of several games would have been diff for all sorts of reasons. I’m hoping he can get there. I’ve never been on the boat of his shooting issues being due to confidence, simply because imo as a player you have to overcome and let the cream rise to the top. We shall soon see. I say if he struggles the same way this year then it is what it is. Heck he was wide open most of the deep balls he took, those should be at an even higher clip. He’s the one player that could change our season drastically for next year imo.
Let me say in a relaxed way, I do not buy shooting nothing but treys is the way to win games. I actually DO UNDERSTAND that you are fixated on treys, you have TDS, Trey Derangement Syndrome. I do NOT care, I don't even in a relaxed state of mind care how the NBA plays, simply do NOT care at all. The college game is different than the NBA game and in the college game 2 pt buckets are EXTREMELY IMPORTANT, in a RELAXED WAY! LOL
There are people who believe in math. There are people who do not believe in math.
There is a reason analytics has become a major part of team success at every level of basketball. But there will always be people who don't understand the new way of doing things, dig their heels in, and refuse to acknowledge when the new way is proven correct. It reminds me of my high school's football coach who, all the way until his firing in 2001, insisted on running offensive plays that Vince Lombardi ran in the 1960s. Needless to say, he didn't win a lot of games in the 1990s.
There is a reason analytics has become a major part of team success at every level of basketball. But there will always be people who don't understand the new way of doing things, dig their heels in, and refuse to acknowledge when the new way is proven correct. It reminds me of my high school's football coach who, all the way until his firing in 2001, insisted on running offensive plays that Vince Lombardi ran in the 1960s. Needless to say, he didn't win a lot of games in the 1990s.
Figures don't lie. But liars can figure. So some are always figuring here...🏀
