ZUNC vs Virginia game thread Saturday 27 Feb 2015

[Heelicious]

We lose by 5, but lose at the FT line by 11. I'm sorry, I know that can happen at home, but it was just incredible how badly we got mugged and didn't get some calls. You'd have to think / hope that on a neutral court, maybe we get neutral officiating, and win by 4-5. As we would've in an evenly called game.

 

[keysersosay#1]

Missed opportunities Brice missed front end marcus misses layup Home cookin galore NEVER have I seen a team MORE dependent on ONE player than UVA is with brogdon , cause without him they are average.

 

[imajericho]

Guess the %s

49.2% 47.4% 53.8%

44.3% 43.8% 85.7%

Does this help...

29-59 9-19 7-13

27-61 7-16 18-21

 

[imajericho]

We outplayed Virginia pretty much across the board besides Free Throws. We had 5 more TOs than them... but more steals than they had. That'd down to officiating basically. For example, Berry's rebound where he is pushed out of bounds is considered a TO.

Refereeing and FT shooting killed us today.

 

[tarh33ls]

FT and officiating, plain and simple we did get hosed honestly but whatever got to find a way to fight through that at times.

 

[snoopy2000]

FT and officiating, plain and simple we did get hosed honestly but whatever got to find a way to fight through that at times.

Knew that the Heels were not going to get calls when they called that BS offensive foul on Berry in the first half. That set the tone. These refs are awful because they are SO inconsistent. Guys get mauled and pushed and bodied they call nothing. Guy gets brushed lightly going to the basket and the whistle blows.

 

[Upper Plains Heel]

Are you even a UNC fan? He is putting 3 point shooters on the floor hoping they can hit to tie the game up to go to OT.

I would rather have Johnson on the floor. Maye won't get you anything.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

The refs weren't the problem. Every play I rewound they got right. Sure, a few of the calls could have gone differently but most were called the way they should have been.

The only one that really ticked me off was the out of bounds play where they went to the monitor to see that it went off our guy. But that same replay showed a clear foul dislodged the ball (which then went off our guy). I suspect that you aren't allowed to call the foul on the replay, so that sucked.

 

[keysersosay#1]

Lost count of the over the backs that Gill made Poorly officiated game reminded me of a dook game. FTs hurt us need to make ours cause we are NOT gonna get the calls on the opponents court

 

[Heelicious]

FT and officiating, plain and simple we did get hosed honestly but whatever got to find a way to fight through that at times.

It's just NEVER going to work out for us, when we only shoot 13 FTs in a game, and Berry, Jackson, and Paige take 6 combined. We had to find a way to attack the rim more. Though, to be fair, an early time when Berry drove even on an angle he got a BS charge call. So today, what can you do? The officials sure weren't going to call anything on them on the inside...or for hand checking on the perimeter.

 

[Upper Plains Heel]

The refs weren't the problem. Every play I rewound they got right. Sure, a few of the calls could have gone differently but most were called the way they should have been.

The only one that really ticked me off was the out of bounds play where they went to the monitor to see that it went off our guy. But that same replay showed a clear foul dislodged the ball (which then went off our guy). I suspect that you aren't allowed to call the foul on the replay, so that sucked.

Don't tell the fan boys that the officiating was pretty decent. They see what they want to see.

 

[strummingram]

I expected this loss. They turned it over too much and missed too many FT's, period.

 

[imajericho]

The refs weren't the problem. Every play I rewound they got right. Sure, a few of the calls could have gone differently but most were called the way they should have been.

The only one that really ticked me off was the out of bounds play where they went to the monitor to see that it went off our guy. But that same replay showed a clear foul dislodged the ball (which then went off our guy). I suspect that you aren't allowed to call the foul on the replay, so that sucked.

What game did you watch, dude?

 

[strummingram]

Don't tell the fan boys that the officiating was pretty decent. They see what they want to see.

No one is delusional. The reason you're chastised is because your presence is only made when the team loses. If you don't understand the correlation, that's your problem.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Brogdon is the real deal.

Brice is the real deal, too.

The difference is that Brogdon can create his own shot in multiple ways. For the most part Brice depends on someone getting him the ball - and Virginia just wasn't making that easy.

What I don't understand is why we can't figure out a way to defeat Virginia's efforts to cut down on good touches by Brice (and our other bigs - but especially Brice). It's not like Bennett's defensive strategy is a surprise.

And, no, I don't have the solution. But the guy making several million a year is supposed to. Some of the guys here can probably explain it, so what's the problem?

 

[HeelFan58]

We are losing by freaking 7. That isn't mauled. Go away. Seriously. Our fan base needs so many less fans of your type.

I think he meant mauled foul wise , maybe you need to chill.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

No doubt the selective officiating didn't help.

But let's talk about things we can control. Free throws hurt. Roy giving Meeks chance after chance to be tough is ridiculous. Hicks has earned those minutes but Roy is trying to baby Meeks a bit so he doesn't lose him. Who cares at this point with Meeks he's a lost cause. He clogs up the lane and makes it easier to double Johnson which we saw all night while he was in the game. We still look like deer in headlights in key situations offensively. We stop running offense through Johnson and resort to shooting jump shots. We aren't a great shooting team so why settle for those shots? Tough game in a tough environment. I liked our toughness and resiliency in adversity overall. A few kids don't fall into that category and we know who they are. Roy's sub patterns hurt. All in all not a bad loss but continues to highlight our weaknesses.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

I expected this loss. They turned it over too much and missed too many FT's, period.

I expected this loss because this team can't win against good opponents on the road. This was definitely a game we should have lost. We're fortunate tournament games are neutral site.

 

[Heelicious]

Don't tell the fan boys that the officiating was pretty decent. They see what they want to see.

Congrats, fan boy of the Heels losing. If you say you don't enjoy seeing the Heels lose so you can spend the next few days trashing every aspect of this current program, you are lying.

I hope you enjoy your celebration at least until Monday.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

What game did you watch, dude?

I just don't let my fandom interfere with my vision.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

Jericho is on a roll tonight. If you don't agree that nothing is wrong with anything about our team and that we only lose because of officiating then you are a bad fan and need to shut the **** up. (His words)

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

The good news about this loss is that we were actually clawing back the whole final quarter. Virginia was too good to let us snatch the victory, but we were playing hard and got it down to 1 possession near the end (after Marcus's trey).

Here's the thing that we should pay attention to: That's the first loss this season that we didn't fade in the 4th quarter. At least I think that's true. I haven't seen the quarterly numbers for this game yet. But we definitely faded in all our other losses this season.

It's hard to claim that we've finally fixed that problem just based on 1 game - especially since we didn't win. But not fading against tough competition is very important for this team and just might be more important than the win for how the rest of the season will go.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

Wwjd, the problem for Brice against a team like Uva is that they already pack it in pretty good on D so when we play a 4 alongside Brice like Meeks who isn't able to move well and clogs the lane, it makes it real easy to help out on Brice when he gets an entry pass by doubling him and forcing him to throw it back out. Our lack of a big time shooter hurts against teams like this. A big time shooter makes you pay every time you double a big by rotations are always a step behind good ball movement. We don't have that Wayne Ellington or Harrison Barnes type wing who can knock down open looks consistently.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

AsLong as we get a good draw and don't play a snail team in the tourney like UVa then I like our chances. If we get a draw where we have to go through a few teams that grind it out, we are fighting an uphill battle based on what we've seen the last 3 years.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

A couple mental errors played a part as well down the stretch (the Maye turnover on the inbound and the Brice fumble out of bounds on the FT rebound - which may have been aided by Hicks). Eliminate the mental mistake and we have a shot to tie at the end there, IMO.

 

[r_u_worthy]

I just think the officiating in general is pretty horrible. I thought things were going be called to increase freedom of movement for the offensive players- don't see much different from last year at this point going into March. I also think they should bring back the 5 sec closely guarded rule on the dribble. Can't stand that stand up top and pound the ball until the shot clock goes to 7 or 8 and run a High ball screen- boring! Takes away an important way for the defense to force action short of trapping.

 

[Heelicious]

The good news about this loss is that we were actually clawing back the whole final quarter. Virginia was too good to let us snatch the victory, but we were playing hard and got it down to 1 possession near the end (after Marcus's trey).

Here's the thing that we should pay attention to: That's the first loss this season that we didn't fade in the 4th quarter. At least I think that's true. I haven't seen the quarterly numbers for this game yet. But we definitely faded in all our other losses this season.

It's hard to claim that we've finally fixed that problem just based on 1 game - especially since we didn't win. But not fading against tough competition is very important for this team and just might be more important than the win for how the rest of the season will go.

Good rational post, WWJD. On a gameday set, at home, with lets just call it at least slightly favorable regarding how UVA likes the game called vs. us..... we just have little room for error.

We were not great at the FT line.... but much of that is Pinson 1-4.
With little margin for error, we can't have the ball roll off of Brice on a seemingly secured rebound out of bounds.
We can't have a guy in the game who turns over the ball without even passing it in.
We can't give up made shots and / or additional possessions several times with 2 seconds on the shot clock.
And, we need a Marcus to shoot even at 70% of what he used to be. We've seen he is capable in SOME recent games. We REALLY need him back to his old self.

All of these things were too much to overcome. I wish we would've driven it more; and trapped more, early in the game. And / or play more zone.

We seemed to get the ball to Brice better in the second half. We need to impose our will on teams more, early on.

Finally, unless Berry was gassed..... he was on the bench too long in this game. OK I see he got 35 minutes so maybe that isn't a valid complaint. We need him and Brice on the court every minute we can have them, without them getting in foul trouble or getting worn out. They are our two best players.

 

[2DDIMOND]

Why does it seem that a lot of you guys complain about reffing when we lose? Why not complain about our lack of a great shooter and our lack of toughness and our terrible substitution patterns?

We were 9-19 from 3 & nearly shot 50% for the game. Anybody pulling for Light Blue tonight would've taken 74 points no questions asked. You would have a lot more credibility if you would post ONCE when the team wins. You remind me of a boiler room basher on stock message boards, never anything positive to say. We are playing well, need to win the last 2, I hope we do because I know you will be a no show if we do.

 

[Heelicious]

I just read two things on Adam Lucas's Rapid reactions that were disturbing, but again I didn't really notice in the game. Brice went the last 18+ minutes without a FG, and with only two attempts? Can that be true? Maybe he was tired, but he is too big a weapon for us to not find a way to get him more shots. Of course it doesn't help that some of that time he is on the bench.

Then, there was a stretch when UVA scored on 14 of 18 trips, 14 of 15 where they didn't turn it over. We just aren't very good at playing defense for 30 seconds still, I think. And its REALLY hard, if you give up an offensive rebound and basically have to play defense for 6o seconds.

 

[Mox94]

Obviously, this team needs Marcus to come close to resembling his former self on offense. But there are other issues that we all are aware of. The game got tied with Hicks in the game, and playing well. Then Roy decides to insert Meeks for Hicks along with putting Britt and Pinson in the game. I like Pinsons hustle, but in games against good teams his contributions is lacking. He immediately gives up a wife open 3 to Brogdon, then commits a careless turnover, followed by a foul. At that point the lead is at 7, and growing. Then I look and see Maye coming into the game. Now I am all for building depth, but you are playing the number 3 team in the country, and it is the time of year to trim the rotation instead of expanding. Of course Maye then commences to step over the end line and commit a grade school turnover. At this point I start Brice and Hicks. Sub Meeks for both of them just to give each a moments rest around TV timeouts. Jackson at the three, spelled by Pinson as little as possible. Paige and Berry, spelled by Britt. And that is it. Against top flight competition James and May don't need to sniff the court unless serious fold trouble unfolds.

 

[Heelicious]

Obviously, this team needs Marcus to come close to resembling his former self on offense. But there are other issues that we all are aware of. The game got tied with Hicks in the game, and playing well. Then Roy decides to insert Meeks for Hicks along with putting Britt and Pinson in the game. I like Pinsons hustle, but in games against good teams his contributions is lacking. He immediately gives up a wife open 3 to Brogdon, then commits a careless turnover, followed by a foul. At that point the lead is at 7, and growing. Then I look and see Maye coming into the game. Now I am all for building depth, but you are playing the number 3 team in the country, and it is the time of year to trim the rotation instead of expanding. Of course Maye then commences to step over the end line and commit a grade school turnover. At this point I start Brice and Hicks. Sub Meeks for both of them just to give each a moments rest around TV timeouts. Jackson at the three, spelled by Pinson as little as possible. Paige and Berry, spelled by Britt. And that is it. Against top flight competition James and May don't need to sniff the court unless serious fold trouble unfolds.

AMEN. Exact perfect rotation notes. Couldn't agree more.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

Agree Mox. I posted during the feed as soon as I saw the subs that we would lose the game at that point. Worked entirely too hard to tie the game and then Roy out in Meeks, Pinson and Britt followed by maybe for Meeks with Pinson and Britt still on the floor. Tie game went to an 11 point deficit in 3 minutes. Adam Lucas pointed out the same thing in his article on go heels.com. He also highlighted our inability to run the offense through Brice in the second half. Both things that absolutely killed us and things that we can control. Subs and offensive flow.

 

[IDUNK4HEELS]

Virginia is solid...no excuses for the loss--Virginia just wanted it more at home.

 

[coryfly]

Officiating wasn't terrible. Typical home whistle but nothing crazy. Execution and the same issues got us. Too many offensive rebounds given up. Mistakes in crucial moments. Defense wasn't good enough. All this can be overcome but not against a team like UVA at their place. To their credit, they were pretty fantastic as well.

 

[strummingram]

I don't recall Maye playing any against NCSU. Did he?

 

[TarHeelMark]

I don't recall Maye playing any against NCSU. Did he?

Or against Miami?

 

[strummingram]

Or against Miami?

I had to listen to the NCSU game on Tar Heel radio. I don't recall his name ever being called.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

I don't recall Maye playing any against NCSU. Did he?

No he didn't, and neither did Kenny, and James only got 2 minutes I believe. Which, is fairly confusing considering we had the lead for the majority of the NCSU game, and we trailed for the majority of the UVA game - wouldn't you be more prone to playing your backups in a game you had the lead in as opposed to one where you were playing catch up for the whole game? I think if Roy wanted to win this game as much as he wanted to win the NCSU game, he would have been less likely to make those decisions.

I agree with Mox's lineup assessments above, and I've been saying we need to trim the rotation, and when we have some of the starters out, not to have 3 or more of them out at the same time, for a while now.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I don't recall Maye playing any against NCSU. Did he?

Or against Miami?

Zero against NCSU, 1 minute against Miami (which was a slaughter, so he certainly could have played more)

For the last 8 games of this brutal home stretch:

Maye averaged 3.1 minutes per game (in the 7 games he played)
Joel James averaged 4.4 mpg
Nate played 12.7 mpg (in 7 games)
Isaiah played 18.4 mpg
Theo checks in at 18.5 mpg
Meeks is at 20.3 mpg

I hate to say it but I think you can make an argument that Isaiah should be getting more minutes than Kennedy. Unfortunately, Isaiah still has enough problems with fouls and TOs that Kennedy may be the better bet.

While Nate doesn't have anything near Theo's ceiling, he gives everything he's got. Theo was looking a bit better recently, but not so much against UVa. To be fair, though, nobody was able to handle Brogdon.

The thing that I've been noticing about Theo is that when the guy he's defending has the ball, he is very good at staying in his face. Has trouble getting past screens but otherwise very good. But when the guy he's defending doesn't have the ball and moves well without the ball, Theo loses intensity - and that too often translates into losing his man.

 

[SeaHawk98]

I kind of expected to lose. Not really upset, UVA on the road was going to be tough. I am not sure how John Swofford has a job. Officiating against UNC this year has been embarrassing. I guess we should expect this from a league who can't simple suspend a guy for tripping players, can't call obvious travels and blatantly calls football players offsides when it was obvious they were not. Bad calls are bad calls, its the inconsistencies that sunk UNC last night. One team was allowed to be physical, the other not. Can't officiate that way, gave UVA a huge advantage. On to Syracuse. People can say officiating doesn't determine outcomes. They are correct, good officiating doesn't. Incompetence like last night DOES. It was a good game against 2 ACC powerhouses, too bad the officiating ruined it.