E J Montgomery
- Thread starter holynolesmoke
- Start date
Oh OK makes since when is the deadline to sign? College basketball time frame seems so different from college football to signing.
While that's certainly reasonable from his point of view, that makes it sound like he's waiting for Duke or Kentucky.
Could also have to do with whether he wants to play center or PF. If he comes here with Luke, an improved Brooks and Little possibly playing some at PF, he may figure he'll be forced to play center. Which is great if that's what he wants. But he doesn't look like a center to me. And at 200 pounds, he may not want that punishment.
247 has Duke in the lead, and us not even in the running. Their only big guy in the 2018 class is 6'6 Zion. Reddish could presumably play PF, too. Which could push EJ to center at Duke, too, depending on what Bolden and DeLaurier do.
Given Duke's track record with guys like Bolden and DeLaurier, it's easy to picture EJ sitting on the bench a lot there.
It won't surprise me if he picks Duke. But if he's really leaning toward either Duke or Kentucky, the fit looks better at Kentucky.
Apparently neither Kansas nor Arizona are in the running.
These days I just assume any 5 star guy we’re recruiting is going to dook unless a commitment article pops up on THI. Very sad.
I know, our program is in shambles these last few years without them.........
When did it become OK for UNC fans to be so afraid of others? Maybe the worst thing I have witnessed over my 50+ years of fandom is the new breed's fear of rivals! I will never fear another program or coach. I fully believe UNC and especially Roy will find a way to win at the same levels as all other programs!. We will win in recruiting AND we will continue to win games just like we are dong right now! (winning means getting recruits that fit into the culture AND win)
So if I understand the point being made, UNC should wait to see who is being recruited by Kentuck or puke AND study kids' backgrounds to see if they ever had a t-shirt for either program before we start to recruit them. Then we should make sure the kid has never even dreamed of being a Top 10 recruit or a OAD. After this, Roy should then offer every kid from say #30-200 and spend an equal number of minutes on each! Hopefully, some of our loyal fans will care about the program enough to write these rules down and forward them to Roy! Did I get that right?
Why is it not still wisdom to follow the old adage: You miss EVERY shot you don't take?
and
When did the idea that I trust in our coaching staff (due to decades of success including last years Natty BTW) become blind optimism?
I will ALWAYS be a Tar Heel!
So if I understand the point being made, UNC should wait to see who is being recruited by Kentuck or puke AND study kids' backgrounds to see if they ever had a t-shirt for either program before we start to recruit them. Then we should make sure the kid has never even dreamed of being a Top 10 recruit or a OAD. After this, Roy should then offer every kid from say #30-200 and spend an equal number of minutes on each! Hopefully, some of our loyal fans will care about the program enough to write these rules down and forward them to Roy! Did I get that right?
Why is it not still wisdom to follow the old adage: You miss EVERY shot you don't take?
and
When did the idea that I trust in our coaching staff (due to decades of success including last years Natty BTW) become blind optimism?
I will ALWAYS be a Tar Heel!
We return probably 60 points of offense, and add two 5 star recruits is there something I am missing?
Going 2-19 in the span of 7 recruiting classes against Dook and then yelling "Full Speed Ahead" is not fear. It's lunacy. And no, I'm not suggesting Roy is a lunatic, I'm referring to the idea that people advocating for Roy not going all in on Dook fanboys or guys that show us no interest is a bad idea. (The fact that I even have to clarify this is ridiculous in itself.)
Roy's record speaks for itself. Every player that's stepped foot on our roster since the perceived mile marker of Harrison Barnes either committed to UNC before he got other interest or we were considered the favorite from the jump. His best work has been done by offering guys who didn't have one foot on another campus, or "wide open" as some call it, since Day 1.
Why some of you still can't comprehend that or try to twist it into some joe on a message board trying to instruct our HOF coach is beyond me at this point.
Roy's record speaks for itself. Every player that's stepped foot on our roster since the perceived mile marker of Harrison Barnes either committed to UNC before he got other interest or we were considered the favorite from the jump. His best work has been done by offering guys who didn't have one foot on another campus, or "wide open" as some call it, since Day 1.
Why some of you still can't comprehend that or try to twist it into some joe on a message board trying to instruct our HOF coach is beyond me at this point.
guys that show us no interest - I don't pretend to a be a "deep or knowledgeable" recruiting expert, so I can't contest or debate the stats you are quoting. I also don't know the intricacies of each of those recruiting situations, and I assume you most likely know what you have read. The point I take issue with is the one I highlighted in Bold. You can't possibly know what is being told to the coaching staff. I am sure that Roy and staff would most certainly not waste their precious time if one of these "Dook bound" recruits said "Roy, thanks for your interest, but you are wasting your time - I am 100% committed to Duke and there is NOTHING on God's green earth that will change my mind, I will go to Alabama A&M (no offense to them!) before I'd ever come to Chapel Hill."
This is not debating or contradicting your opinion. But sometimes a kid doesn't automatically "want" to come to UNC or have us as their dream school, and it requires the coaching staff to "sell" them on it. That's part of recruiting, n'est-ce pas?
Compare Joey Baker (Took multiple visits to UNC, Reportedly Grew up a UNC fan, had a teammate connection through Felton, and kept us on his list until it was clear we wouldn't be offering) and Wendell Moore (Grew up a Dook fan, Restarts his recruiting the moment Dook offers him, yet Dook gets a commitment from that very same position a few week later).
Compare Will Baker (Worst competition is Texas A&M and UCLA, Said he will take an Official, and wants to grow his relationship with the Staff) to Armando Bacot (Reportedly grew up a Dook fan, Had heavy Dook interest early).
Which two of these guys would you think we'd have a better chance with?
Need I even mention Gaffney?
Nobody here is a recruiting guru, so let's not kid ourselves. All I want to see is Roy not go all in on kids and have them commit elsewhere after stringing us along for months and missing out on other good ones. That gives us a class like 2017. Why is that such a problem? As TPF just said, we only miss the shots we do not take, so why not take a shot on some guys that aren't uphill battles? Especially when Roy's just did it in the previous recruiting class
Here's the quote I take issue with:
This is such a tired argument. I (thankfully) do not sit on Roy's staff and I have the same amount of inside connections and recruiting as the rest of the people on this board. That being said, we all have eyes and ears and can assess a situation with what little information we have.
Yet almost every recruit I've thought or said "He's not coming here" about has not come here. The one exception is perhaps Pinson. And considering we were directly competing with Indiana and Dook cooled on him, I'm not shocked Roy could swing him.
The handwriting is more often than not on the wall. How often do we see any of these top recruits actually "shock the world"? Roy was reportedly disappointed when Langford cut us despite the handwriting being on the wall for months. Was anyone here actually shocked? Most of us said he wasn't coming here since the beginning. Minus those that perhaps make this very same argument.
Graham was a three star committed to play at app state. KU whiffed on PG after PG, and Self finally offered him. We already had pgs committed, and playing for us. Find a different player or recruit for comparison
Didn’t say anywhere that the program is struggling. We just aren’t the top 15 draft pick factory we used to be. I actually prefer players that stay 4 years and develop like Brice.
I am not sure has this EJ recruitment will work out but I will say this I won't question Roy in recruiting.All I have heard from this board and others is for Roy to go after the 15-50 or so range in rank and Bacot fits that. Dook may wiff on him if they prioritize the top 10, so let Roy do his work this will be a full year on the trail without the NCAA in our back pocket.
Other than Joey Baker and (so far) Alonzo Gaffney:
Trey Lyles. Ranked 6th in 2014. Decommitted from Indiana. After we never offered, said he "wished UNC had offered him".
Issac Copeland. Ranked 16th in 2014. Don't know if he grew up a UNC fan, but he was right in our backyard. Had mutual interest from us in the very beginning (something I also point out.), but instead we targeted Tyus Jones' life partner.
Matt Coleman. Ranked 31st in 2017. Never visited him once. Averaged 10 Points and 4 Assists his first year @ Texas. Sure could've used him for next year after Jalek's drama. And the "Roy didn't want another PG in 2017" argument doesn't work anymore. He wouldn't have offered Colin Sexton and Nick Weatherspoon otherwise.
Montrezl Harrell in 2012. Ranked Composite 78th in 2012 (Same range as Tokoto and James). Think he did all right at Louisville. And before you bring up the sanctions, just realize it wouldn't have mattered if he was here.
And since we enjoy reaching back into the past all the time, Let's go ahead and include Kevin Durant. Possibly the worst miss of them all. None of these guys got offers. Most of them didn't even get visits AFAIK.
These are just off the top of my head. Point is, quite often we leave money on the table. Whether they're kids who may want us to recruit them or life-long die hard UNC fans. You guys seem to forget who we are when it suits you. We're the University of North Carolina. 6x National Champions and with a HOF coach at the helm. We don't have to chase the coattails of kids who don't think they can be elite here or would rather go jump on the top of the pile at Dook or UK.
EDIT: There was also John Wall, but it's known Roy doesn't deal with Handlers. Didn't seem to work out too bad for UK in the long run though.
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I think Rose summed it up with some good examples. And there’s plenty more.
It does suck, I think we actually could have done something on the court in 2016 and 2017 if we had some of those guys.
Shame we had such bad seasons because Roy doesn't listen to the experts on THR.
Shame we had such bad seasons because Roy doesn't listen to the experts on THR.
Go ahead and toss Donovan Mitchell into that group too.
IIRC, we did offer Durant & he committed, there was just some grade (or other) issue & either he or us backed out & he wound up at Texas. I remember reading that but can't recall the details.
Why is this always the go-to? Each of those rosters were filled with guys the exact type of guys I'm talking about. And for all you know, 2013-2015 could've been less bumpy for us in addition to those two great seasons with any one of those guys. Hell, we could even be back to back National Champions right now.
So if wanting Roy to do what he does best means I'm an armchair expert, then I'll gladly bear that title. It beats being one of those who go missing when these other guys commit elsewhere after claiming we're doing fine with them.
Rose, you know what else is "tired?" Your know it all attitude and taking issue with posters who don't agree with you. You're a fan, and it's an internet message board - so have at it. But getting frustrated because the UNC fan base (meaning the majority of the posters on this message board, for this argument's sake) has confidence in Roy, trusts that he and the staff do the best possible job in recruiting for the program that he is responsible for, and is pretty happy with the results since he has been head coach is pointless.
Continue posting whatever you like, of course. And I'm sure you'll come back and tell me I just gave you a "tired, old response"............
Continue posting whatever you like, of course. And I'm sure you'll come back and tell me I just gave you a "tired, old response"............
Rose, you are simply looking at talent and have no idea what is behind the scenes, ROY DOES!
Durante wanted to be a Tar Heel, but no way could he get by admissions.
Not sure about the others, but I bet Roy knows.
Durante wanted to be a Tar Heel, but no way could he get by admissions.
Not sure about the others, but I bet Roy knows.
Ya'll did hear about the NCAA cloud that surrounded our program for 6+yrs right? It is easy enough to site the misses we have had on the recruiting trail but to ignore the reasons for those misses is not telling the whole story. Yes of course, Roy is not going to deal with many of the middle men that have and still control the sport for many years, do you want him to? I mean really, do you want to sweat that next awful ESPN headline on sports center or do you want to relax in knowing that as long as Roy is there UNC will be as clean a program as you will find?
Me, I rather we stay clean...
Me, I rather we stay clean...
That one was beat to death. NO WAY was Clifton letting Wall come to UNC. And no, Cal$hady has no problem with handlers, he just turns them over to WWW.
Why you down on Roy? Very odd timing.
So a lot on here are griping because we're not getting many 5 star recruits anymore,most of them now a days are OAD's anyways.WELL....How's it working out for Dook and Kensucky? Yeah Dook just lost in the elite 8,but UNC went back to back title games with how many 5 stars?If Calaperi and the Rat convinced those guys to stay instead of rushing them off to the NBA green room, they would have more titles bottom line.I like Roy's way of doing things with experience,if we're down a couple of years big whoop,we always bounce back.
Tremendous Duo! big shoes to fill.
I'm a little worried about filling those shoes. We have good talent coming in, but we're taking a big hit on play-making and determination.
Then again, even if we don't have another passer like Theo or a will-to-win leader like Joel, we might have other talents that are just as valuable. We just don't know yet.
I'm a little encouraged that I've recently been noticing Luke and Seventh directing traffic out on the court. With young, lower ranked-players (i.e., what's left of our 2017 class) that will be a big help. Assuming of course that they are directing traffic well. It may not be the same kind of leadership we got from Joel and Theo, but it's still a sign of leadership.
I don’t think he ever actually committed. Maybe he wanted to, but don’t think he ever did or was allowed to.
Says who? Neither Durant or Roy (Let alone UNC) has ever said this, AFAIK. The general consensus has always been that Brandon Wright and Durant were mutually exclusive.
https://www.google.com/amp/nba.nbcs...-durant-almost-played-for-north-carolina/amp/
“Durant had decided on North Carolina, but at the last minute, (North Carolina coach Roy) Williams made a brain-numbing decision with his lone remaining ride,” Feinberg said. “He tabled Durant and chose Brandan Wright instead. Think Roy regrets that one? Durant landed on his feet, choosing wisely. One of the important reasons for Texas was its great strength and conditioning coach, Todd Wright.”
For people who have been consistently reminding me I'm not behind the scenes, this actually seems like "behind the scenes" info that the public wouldn't know. How would anyone here know what Durant's high school transcripts say?
I can't rember where I read it, but I did read on another site yrs ago that Durant wanted to be a tar heel, but goofing off in school led to him not being able to commit. The story said Roy had to tell him and his mom THAT UNC wasn't going to happen. Durant's mom cried, and told her son right there in front of Roy this is why she was so hard on him to pick his grades up. She said she knew this would happen at a place like UNC because of it's academic reputation. And the fact that at the time we could get whomever we wanted. So Durant wasn't tabledore than he was denied. To his credit Durant turned that negative into a positive. Worked out for us as well.
That's not the story he tells.
He goes in depth on his recruitment on the BS Podcast. In summary, we screwed up and let him visit Texas.
I'm asking you how any of that has to do with the topic at hand. Any time anyone brings up legitimate concerns for recruiting, your answer is always along the lines of "well we won in 2017 so it doesn't matter". If we're going to be that cut and dry about everything, then every year that we didn't win a title was a year that we could've done better. And adding an extra piece before 2016 could have been the thing that put us over the top in 2016. Obviously it's ridiculous to criticize a season like 2016, but this works both ways.
I would think you of all people can realize when a recruit ain't coming here.
