How Long Does It Take for the 'Right Coach'

[WoadBlue]

to get a program to the top of its conference and national rankings?

TCU is 12-0 in Sonny Dykes' 1st season as HC. USC is 11-1 in Lincoln Riley's 1st season as HC. Each may be in the 4 team playoff. So it does not require 5 - or even 2 - years. It can be done in 1. Of course, neither Dykes nor Riley is over 70, and neither is known for being expert only in recruiting.

 

[-COUNTRY-CLUB-JOE-]

Depends. Those two programs have experienced tremendous success in the not so distant past. Gary Patterson built TCU, not Sonny Dykes. He had them rolling when they joined the MWC. USC is USC. Definitely not because of Lincoln Riley. Program like Tennessee can hit on a few players and be right back in it. Their floor is never as low and they've been there. North Carolina? Whens the last time we reeled off half a dozen 10 or 11 win seasons in a decade?

Not saying it's impossible. Just not likely. For every example you find of someone doing that, there's probably at least a dozen or more where things go sideways. So, if those are your expectations, you'll likely be disappointed. Better question would be: Why haven't we ever been able to figure it out?

That's not a defense of Mack Brown by any means. It's just the way it is.

 

[tarheel0910]

Not saying it's impossible. Just not likely. For every example you find of someone doing that, there's probably at least a dozen or more where things go sideways. So, if those are your expectations, you'll likely be disappointed. Better question would be: Why haven't we ever been able to figure it out?

That is his expectations though. That's why he may be the most miserable UNC fan there is. He hasn't found any enjoyment in UNC football since the earlier 80s. Most people would have given up by now and found something to make them happy.

 

[WoadBlue]

That is his expectations though. That's why he may be the most miserable UNC fan there is. He hasn't found any enjoyment in UNC football since the earlier 80s. Most people would have given up by now and found something to make them happy.

Winning 4 consecutive bowls against Major conference foes and an ACC Championship was fun. So was hearing multiple Clemson fans, players, and even coaches assert that their toughest foe in the undefeated 1981 National Champ season was neither Georgia nor Nebraska but UNC. If dull Dick Crum could do it at UNC, then there are quite a few coaches who can do it in every decade.

UNC fans just accept being mediocre, and so do administrators.

 

[WoadBlue]

Depends. Those two programs have experienced tremendous success in the not so distant past. Gary Patterson built TCU, not Sonny Dykes. He had them rolling when they joined the MWC. USC is USC. Definitely not because of Lincoln Riley. Program like Tennessee can hit on a few players and be right back in it. Their floor is never as low and they've been there. North Carolina? Whens the last time we reeled off half a dozen 10 or 11 win seasons in a decade?

Not saying it's impossible. Just not likely. For every example you find of someone doing that, there's probably at least a dozen or more where things go sideways. So, if those are your expectations, you'll likely be disappointed. Better question would be: Why haven't we ever been able to figure it out?

That's not a defense of Mack Brown by any means. It's just the way it is.

So how many years do you give Coach February without his winning anything big? That is the issue. And this board features people who will still be making excuses if Mack is 7-5 in Year 10 of his second go around, without a single win over aTop 10 team in a decade.

I know who rebuilt TCU. I also know this: if TCU had hired Mack Brown last year, TCU would be 12-0 now. In fact, I confident that soft Grandpa Mack would have messed up enough to have TCU be about 9-3. And Mack in his first year at SC? Also at least 3 losses.

 

[-COUNTRY-CLUB-JOE-]

So how many years do you give Coach February without his winning anything big? That is the issue. And this board features people who will still be making excuses if Mack is 7-5 in Year 10 of his second go around, without a single win over aTop 10 team in a decade.

I know who rebuilt TCU. I also know this: if TCU had hired Mack Brown last year, TCU would be 12-0 now. In fact, I confident that soft Grandpa Mack would have messed up enough to have TCU be about 9-3. And Mack in his first year at SC? Also at least 3 losses.

I'm not a Mack Brown fan. I'm a Carolina football fan. You could fire Mack Brown tomorrow and I'd still be pulling for UNC.

 

[tarheel0910]

Winning 4 consecutive bowls against Major conference foes and an ACC Championship was fun. So was hearing multiple Clemson fans, players, and even coaches assert that their toughest foe in the undefeated 1981 National Champ season was neither Georgia nor Nebraska but UNC. If dull Dick Crum could do it at UNC, then there are quite a few coaches who can do it in every decade.

UNC fans just accept being mediocre, and so do administrators.

Like I said, you've been miserable since the 80s.

 

[strummingram]

I think most people would agree that Mack Brown is absolutely past his prime. Hiring him was a band-aid, I guess? I dunno. It was never any kind long-term hire.

I think any younger coach that succeeds on a high level at UNC is just going to be sniped by the perennial power house schools when they are struggling. That's why Mack Brown went to Texas 25 years ago!

So... be happy with 9 wins. That's a good season for UNC fans. And, whining about "we just accept it as fans" isn't going to make any difference at all. Unless you're a billionaire and a fan, and you decide to finance UNC's football program, it's completely out of your hands.

 

[strummingram]

Like I said, you've been miserable since the 80s.

The mid-late 90s was fun... except for a few games!

I remember hating Mack Brown in the late 80s! Then, I kinda hated him for leaving and going to Texas.

I guess he's responsible for getting these two QBs to come play for UNC. So, that's been fun. But, they always tease you, only to let you down in the end.

Hell, I know Ohio State fans that are saying the same thing today, after the loss to Michigan! Even they bitch and moan when their team falters. Same with Clemson fans. Sheezus, they are all moaning and complaining after losing yesterday.

 

[NBBears20124ACHAMPS]

I think most people would agree that Mack Brown is absolutely past his prime. Hiring him was a band-aid, I guess? I dunno. It was never any kind long-term hire.

I think any younger coach that succeeds on a high level at UNC is just going to be sniped by the perennial power house schools when they are struggling. That's why Mack Brown went to Texas 25 years ago!

So... be happy with 9 wins. That's a good season for UNC fans. And, whining about "we just accept it as fans" isn't going to make any difference at all. Unless you're a billionaire and a fan, and you decide to finance UNC's football program, it's completely out of your hands.

Mack was hired to bring back excitement to the program, build back rapport with NC High School coaches and get the program back on track. The program won a combined 5 games the two years prior to Mack 2.0 and immediately topped that with a bowl win in year 1. He was the reason Sam flipped from FSU and him and Bly were vital parts in getting Drake to flip from Bama, in addition to Downs. He's done what he was brought here to do but in doing that, has also underachieved due to the talent he's brought in as well as playing in a weak ACC. Both can be true. I've heard from several folks that 2023 will be it for him.

 

[strummingram]

Mack was hired to bring back excitement to the program, build back rapport with NC High School coaches and get the program back on track. The program won a combined 5 games the two years prior to Mack 2.0 and immediately topped that with a bowl win in year 1. He was the reason Sam flipped from FSU and him and Bly were vital parts in getting Drake to flip from Bama, in addition to Downs. He's done what he was brought here to do but in doing that, has also underachieved due to the talent he's brought in as well as playing in a weak ACC. Both can be true. I've heard from several folks that 2023 will be it for him.

I'm not denying his ability to schmooze donors and high school coaches and recruits. No one is denying that, or even doubting that. When you fail to develop those recruits and you keep losing games you should win, it just puts everything right back to the same starting point. When he retires, which will be soon, who is going to maintain rapport then??? They start from scratch... again. He was never a long-term hire. And, a 50/50 record after 5 years is hardly "exciting" to me.

It still equals mediocre, in the end. You got your 9 wins. Go celebrate... now! Cuz that's all you're getting! lol

 

[-COUNTRY-CLUB-JOE-]

So how many years do you give Coach February without his winning anything big? That is the issue. And this board features people who will still be making excuses if Mack is 7-5 in Year 10 of his second go around, without a single win over aTop 10 team in a decade.

I know who rebuilt TCU. I also know this: if TCU had hired Mack Brown last year, TCU would be 12-0 now. In fact, I confident that soft Grandpa Mack would have messed up enough to have TCU be about 9-3. And Mack in his first year at SC? Also at least 3 losses.

I've been fairly adamant that we've made costly, costly missteps since Mack took over. I'm not going through them again. Go back and read my posts from yesterday if you'd like. What I'm saying is try to look at things a bit more realistic. We aren't building a program in one year. Let's not put all the blame (some, but not all) for our defense on position coaches, just because they're Mack's guys. Stuff like that. It's not making excuses for anyone. And then of course a solution/fix is a different discussion.

 

[NBBears20124ACHAMPS]

I'm not denying his ability to schmooze donors and high school coaches and recruits. No one is denying that, or even doubting that. When you fail to develop those recruits and you keep losing games you should win, it just puts everything right back to the same starting point. When he retires, which will be soon, who is going to maintain rapport then??? They start from scratch... again. He was never a long-term hire. And, a 50/50 record after 5 years is hardly "exciting" to me.

It still equals mediocre, in the end. You got your 9 wins. Go celebrate... now! Cuz that's all you're getting! lol

Of course, it wasn't a long-term hire, was merely a band aid hire to get things on the right track. He'll end up averaging 8 wins a year in Mack 2.0 which is about what we expect from UNC football. Hoping we can get over the hump and get to 10 wins here before the season is over.

 

[gteeitup]

dykes, would’ve loved him here as well as patterson when butch was canned…tcu has a great qb…patterson is an a-hole, but does it matter at this point????

riley is an elite play-caller and he’s got a qb in place.

saying all that crap, it just depends…however, given that they both have a qb, it’s less than two years…those programs have money and aren’t tied to leagues, they can flourish.

carolina is a great job right now if it opens…hotter than a lot, auburn included.

 

[blazers]

Of course, it wasn't a long-term hire, was merely a band aid hire to get things on the right track. He'll end up averaging 8 wins a year in Mack 2.0 which is about what we expect from UNC football. Hoping we can get over the hump and get to 10 wins here before the season is over.

Good pt about 8 wins. For that reason, for Mac 2.0 to be more than an avg hire I think he needs to retire with a cupboard full of recruits (like leaving in a month), and hopefully some good will or cheer among the fan base. If recruiting classes of 23/24 stink then him leaving after 23 wouldn't be great*.

*Caveat that if some miracle happens next yr and the D helps Maye have us finish top 10, then maybe the hire would seem more successful.

 

[midline]

Winning 4 consecutive bowls against Major conference foes and an ACC Championship was fun. So was hearing multiple Clemson fans, players, and even coaches assert that their toughest foe in the undefeated 1981 National Champ season was neither Georgia nor Nebraska but UNC. If dull Dick Crum could do it at UNC, then there are quite a few coaches who can do it in every decade.

UNC fans just accept being mediocre, and so do administrators.

Dick Crum. Good football strategist. But once he started running out of Dooleys players, he took the program down because he couldn't recruit.

 

[strummingram]

Dick Crum. Good football strategist. But once he started running out of Dooleys players, he took the program down because he couldn't recruit.

Ya think so? He recruited Lawrence Taylor. He recruited Kelvin Bryant and Rod Elkins... Steve Streater, and on and on.

I dunno what happened after about 83, but he definitely lost the touch.

 

[midline]

Ya think so? He recruited Lawrence Taylor. He recruited Kelvin Bryant and Rod Elkins... Steve Streater, and on and on.

I dunno what happened after about 83, but he definitely lost the touch.

He was a great.football mind. But not a head coach. Just wasn't the personality type that inspired anyone or came across as a leader