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I do love Hubert but man..

UNC Blue Hup

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Oct 4, 2015
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Why play Pax because he can maybe hit a 3–at least play Seth who is much better defender, and hit a couple and very invested to win guys. Withers, what a terrible shot selection on that 3, and why was he in the game. Good season but a horrible finish and that’s the truth. Out coached and out played period, but we did piss ourselves late with wrong players in the game, Hubert. RJ, love you..Go get some good portals again. See you guys next year. Go Heels.
 
It was strange. IMO, he was almost perfect with his bench rotation all year. Trimble getting 15-20 minutes. Withers getting 10-14 minutes. Washington getting 6-8 minutes. Wojcik getting 3'ish minutes at the end of the first half. A lot of people here were obsessed with the bench but I thought he managed it really well because he didn't have any 2-way players on his bench.

Then, he goes YOLO in this one and plays Wojcik more minutes than Cadeau, lol. And not a knock on Wojcik. I thought he actually played really well. It was strange to see Hubert do something he really hasn't done all season with the rotation. Very odd.

Also, a lot of this is playing the results. It looks worse because UNC lost and the season is over. There's no real guarantee that things would've been different in the 2nd half if Cadeau were out there. He and Seth were turning down open perimeter shots despite Alabama continuing to sag off them. So their confidence was still iffy on those shots despite early success. Seth turned down an open 3 to drive and ended up getting a fadeaway 12-footer blocked.

We defended much better without Cadeau on the floor in the second half I thought. Unfortunately, RJ couldn't make a shot. If he makes a couple of 3s and goes 2-9 instead of 0-9 (and if Bacot doesn't miss a dunk and a layup), things might or probably turn out differently. But we've seen this story before that RJ is less efficient if he's the primary ballhandler.

Saying all that, I would've preferred going down with my best 5 out there. Again, doesn't mean we win if we play Cadeau. I also think we're still inflating how good Cadeau is. But if everything is on the line, I want to go down with our 5 best. Not our 4 best and 7th or 9th best.

It's such a shame to have wasted a game where you get 2 made 3s from Cadeau and Trimble. You get 2-2 from FTs from Trimble. You get 1-1 from Wojcik 3s. And you get a 5-8 Cormac Ryan 3PT shooting game. Probably wouldn't have said that was possible going into the game.
 
Hub Davis played his 5*, top of his class pg 13 of 40 minutes. There's story line in this one. The UNC offense goes nowhere without EC on the court and that's exactly what happened.
One of the bad themes in a really good overall season. Idk if he’s blinded by loyalty to RJ but we slowed down and played scared down the stretch way too often. EC needed the keys earlier and more completely for this team to be at peak but we kept reverting to RJ and last year’s offense in crunch time.
 
It is only one data point, but Cadeau (-10) and Trimble (-7) had the worst plus-minus stats on the team. Wojcik had the best of the entire team (+9).

I don't think Wojcik vs Cadeau/Trimble is what cost us the game. Blowing dunks and RJ having a horrible game were more the culprit than W's PT.

ETA - oh, and Larry Bird wanna-be was amazing, gotta give him credit.
 
It is only one data point, but Cadeau (-10) and Trimble (-7) had the worst plus-minus stats on the team. Wojcik had the best of the entire team (+9).

I don't think Wojcik vs Cadeau/Trimble is what cost us the game. Blowing dunks and RJ having a horrible game were more the culprit than W's PT.

ETA - oh, and Larry Bird wanna-be was amazing, gotta give him credit.

look behind the numbers. Wojcik benefitted from RJ starting to score in the 2nd half. it wasn't anything he did
 
I'll stop short of saying Hubert cost us the game because we didn't play well. RJ couldn't hit anything and Mando still continues to miss way too many chippies. We also never really made a meaningful adjustment on the stretch 4 that was killing us in the 2nd half. All that to say, yes the rotations were beyond awful down the stretch. Wojcik has no business in that game during those stretches based solely on the time he was given in less important stretches throughout the season, where we saw at least 2 other guards play ahead of him in EC and Trimble. Withers play in those 2 minutes late, pretty much single handedly put the nail in our coffin. We had the lead and had a chance to walk out of there with an ugly win, but a win nonetheless. It was just bad, and it doesn't look good when the narrative is already out there that Hubert is a great person, but a mediocre bench coach at best. Just bad. Great season. Shitty ending.
 
For the record, Hubert f*cked it up. But spare me the Oats out coached him garbage. Oats didn’t do anything except watch us self destruct.
If Hubert F'ed it up and Oats didn't F it up, that is the definition of outcoaching. If I make 4 free throws out of 10 and you only make 2, I outshot you even though neither of us was good.
 
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Well, there is no "stuff" thread so I will add my thoughts on this "game" here...

Now I am trying to make some sense of this, really pissed right now. I watched a very competitive first half, entertaining no matter what team you love. IN that first half it was Cadeau and Seth actually bringing us scoring, big points. Even thou they were doubling Bacot every time he touched it the big man was still playing thru them. Green did a heck of a job locking down RJ and even when he got decent looks he missed them but RJ had been magic in second halves when we needed him. The pace was up, both teams were running, both teams gave up some easier scores due to the tempo but we had a nice working margin at the half.

Then all the sudden I see Paxon in (no box score up for me right now) I see Paxon in what seems to be most of that second half. No diss toward Paxon, felt he played pretty well, not in any way suggesting we lost due to Paxon, want to make that clear. But you have a team whose guards are white hot, Green couldn't miss, Sears was every bit as advertised, and that other guard was hitting some really hard looks. And in the face of that our by far best guard defender is a great lock down defender but for the season has not given us a ton of scoring yet Seth has 8pts at least going in to the half? Cadeau who has not been able to even come close to hitting a trey lately hits a trey and gives us some addition points, what, Cadeau and Seth both giving us first half points, felt really good about our chances going in to that half. RJ wasn't going to stay quiet for that second half for sure, Ryan looked like he had his shooting eye, Bacot was getting anything he wanted any time he wanted it and we were looking for him.

Then with a little over 14mins left in that second half they call a touch foul on Bacot, his 3rd and Hubert pulls him and the game changed. Those bama guards did not cool off, RJ is still cold as ice, Ryan went next level hitting jumpers he had consistently missed all season. But where was our best by far guard defender, Ryan did all he could on both ends but Seth is over on the bench, scored 8pts in the first half now but he is on the bench and Paxon was in, Paxon stayed in, did he come out? Cadeau, the ignitor of our offense, where was he, well he was sitting over there next to Seth? I have not seen Hubert's post game, pretty sure he was asked why Seth and Cadeau played so little, if at all in that second half, I can't imagine what that reason would be, if neither were hurt I can't see a valid reason.

Then you have JWit in at crunch time and we really needed a score, any score and he takes a trey with no one in rebounding position and makes the worst decision he could make, he takes a long trey which he of course misses badly they board and go down and nail a trey? RJ seemed to get antsy and started pumping up long step back treys on a night he was cold from the floor, Bacot misses a wide open, easy dunk, maybe as easy a dunk as he has had in his career? And still no Seth, still no Cadeau? It was an array of hard jumpers from us, Ryan held his shooting eye, we darn sure didn't lose because of him. But we in spite of all this, we were right there when all the sudden Grant Nelson comes out of no where and has the minutes of his life, all the sudden this guy comes out of no where and he is hitting 2s, splashing treys, blocking shots, grabbing boards? And yet still, no Seth, still no Cadeau? Stil our defensive stopper and our offensive ignitor sit on the bench, guess who they were NOT sitting next to, you got it, Paxon? Again, not blaming Paxon for this, Paxon played well for Paxon but it was a bit like bringing in High for Bacot would have been to me.

Hubert to me has had a better than expected season as our coach, some things I would prefer done differently but he is and deserved to be named ACC COY, last night, last night specifically that second half, Hubert was the Hubert of last season making really bad decisions and stayed with those bad decisions?

Now credit bama's players, they played lights out, tip your hat to them, I think they would tell you they played the best they had in them, they didn't leave a thing out, we got them on the wrong night, they answered the bell, we didn't. So do not take my comments as a slight toward those bama players at all, they saw weakness and they pounced on it. No, this game is on Hubert, coaches like players have good and bad games and from Hubert this was not one of his good ones.
 
Then, he goes YOLO in this one and plays Wojcik more minutes than Cadeau, lol. And not a knock on Wojcik. I thought he actually played really well.
Yeah, it's not so much why he played Paxson. Paxson did solid work for us in a tough game.

The real question is why did he bench Cadeau?

I haven't heard anything suggesting that Cadeau was injured. But he was struggling. Imagine if he hadn't hit those 2 treys.

Sure, as a HS player EC played in a lot of big games. But they were big HS games, not the Sweet effing Sixteen on a national stage.

My guess is that it was too much for EC - he felt overwhelmed and wasn't handling it well - and Hubert did what he thought he had to do.

Yeah, yeah, cheap armchair psychology.

Give credit to Alabama's D, too. They were really tough on our guards.

I'm thinking way back to MJ's days when he got so hyped up before a game that Dean wouldn't start him. Not the same thing, but sort of the same thing.
 
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Well, there is no "stuff" thread so I will add my thoughts on this "game" here...

Now I am trying to make some sense of this, really pissed right now. I watched a very competitive first half, entertaining no matter what team you love. IN that first half it was Cadeau and Seth actually bringing us scoring, big points. Even thou they were doubling Bacot every time he touched it the big man was still playing thru them. Green did a heck of a job locking down RJ and even when he got decent looks he missed them but RJ had been magic in second halves when we needed him. The pace was up, both teams were running, both teams gave up some easier scores due to the tempo but we had a nice working margin at the half.

Then all the sudden I see Paxon in (no box score up for me right now) I see Paxon in what seems to be most of that second half. No diss toward Paxon, felt he played pretty well, not in any way suggesting we lost due to Paxon, want to make that clear. But you have a team whose guards are white hot, Green couldn't miss, Sears was every bit as advertised, and that other guard was hitting some really hard looks. And in the face of that our by far best guard defender is a great lock down defender but for the season has not given us a ton of scoring yet Seth has 8pts at least going in to the half? Cadeau who has not been able to even come close to hitting a trey lately hits a trey and gives us some addition points, what, Cadeau and Seth both giving us first half points, felt really good about our chances going in to that half. RJ wasn't going to stay quiet for that second half for sure, Ryan looked like he had his shooting eye, Bacot was getting anything he wanted any time he wanted it and we were looking for him.

Then with a little over 14mins left in that second half they call a touch foul on Bacot, his 3rd and Hubert pulls him and the game changed. Those bama guards did not cool off, RJ is still cold as ice, Ryan went next level hitting jumpers he had consistently missed all season. But where was our best by far guard defender, Ryan did all he could on both ends but Seth is over on the bench, scored 8pts in the first half now but he is on the bench and Paxon was in, Paxon stayed in, did he come out? Cadeau, the ignitor of our offense, where was he, well he was sitting over there next to Seth? I have not seen Hubert's post game, pretty sure he was asked why Seth and Cadeau played so little, if at all in that second half, I can't imagine what that reason would be, if neither were hurt I can't see a valid reason.

Then you have JWit in at crunch time and we really needed a score, any score and he takes a trey with no one in rebounding position and makes the worst decision he could make, he takes a long trey which he of course misses badly they board and go down and nail a trey? RJ seemed to get antsy and started pumping up long step back treys on a night he was cold from the floor, Bacot misses a wide open, easy dunk, maybe as easy a dunk as he has had in his career? And still no Seth, still no Cadeau? It was an array of hard jumpers from us, Ryan held his shooting eye, we darn sure didn't lose because of him. But we in spite of all this, we were right there when all the sudden Grant Nelson comes out of no where and has the minutes of his life, all the sudden this guy comes out of no where and he is hitting 2s, splashing treys, blocking shots, grabbing boards? And yet still, no Seth, still no Cadeau? Stil our defensive stopper and our offensive ignitor sit on the bench, guess who they were NOT sitting next to, you got it, Paxon? Again, not blaming Paxon for this, Paxon played well for Paxon but it was a bit like bringing in High for Bacot would have been to me.

Hubert to me has had a better than expected season as our coach, some things I would prefer done differently but he is and deserved to be named ACC COY, last night, last night specifically that second half, Hubert was the Hubert of last season making really bad decisions and stayed with those bad decisions?

Now credit bama's players, they played lights out, tip your hat to them, I think they would tell you they played the best they had in them, they didn't leave a thing out, we got them on the wrong night, they answered the bell, we didn't. So do not take my comments as a slight toward those bama players at all, they saw weakness and they pounced on it. No, this game is on Hubert, coaches like players have good and bad games and from Hubert this was not one of his good ones.
I was at the bottom of the page and started scrolling up to get to the top of this post.

And scrolled.

And scrolled.

;)

ETA: Really good post.
 
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If Hubert F'ed it up and Oats didn't F it up, that is the definition of outcoaching. If I make 4 free throws out of 10 and you only make 2, I outshot you even though neither of us was good.

You would have sucked less. So say it that way. You technically outshot me. But it's not something to be proud of. So the better way of saying it is - "geeze, I'm lucky you sucked".
 
The only sense I can make of the second half is that Hubert felt he was forced to make those personnel decisions. The rotations that scored 52 points and looked in control of the tempo in the half completely disappeared. I didn’t even recognize the team on the floor in the final minute. Bacot 3 fouls had something to do with it but I don’t feel we know the whole story. Either that or Hubert had a stroke and forgot who the players were.
 
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look behind the numbers. Wojcik benefitted from RJ starting to score in the 2nd half. it wasn't anything he did
I said it was only one datapoint, but I think you are over simplifying. Trimble had his own very efficient 8 points in the 1st, while Cadeau wasn't as efficient but had 8 in the first, the combo matching RJ Davis' total for the game.
 
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I kinda liked the idea of having Withers in there since they were switching Nelson onto smaller people, but in retrospect it didn't make any difference, he was having his miracle nite no matter who we had in there.
 
I wondered with RJ going stone could from 3 if HD thought he needed Woj shooting from outside to offset it. I thought we were good when EC hit his first 2, but the air ball busted any confidence he had after that. Putting Withers on Nelson at the end was a good move, he didn't like the physicality that Withers brought. I looked until the 3 he took. As soon as he took it and missed, I got a sick feeling on my stomach.
 
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The only sense I can make of the second half is that Hubert felt he was forced to make those personnel decisions. The rotations that scored 52 points and looked in control of the tempo in the half completely disappeared. I didn’t even recognize the team on the floor in the final minute. Bacot 3 fouls had something to do with it but I don’t feel we know the whole story. Either that or Hubert had a stroke and forgot who the players were.

Strange indeed. Hubert stated that he felt the defense was sagging into the lane with Cadeau or Seth on the floor making it harder for RJ to drive or for Bacot to operate in the lane. That's fair. But I don't know how Wojcik remedies that. It's not like he's some major 3 point threat. Hubert also pointed to Wojcik's size as reason he played over the other two. In fairness, Wojcik mostly played well. He rebounded well, made the 3 and played decent defense. I had less of an issue with Withers' minutes. Withers did a couple nice things. He made a tough bucket when we needed one badly, he had two nice defensive possessions, one of which he finished off with a strong rebound and he had the tip out for an offensive rebound. That absurd 3 pointer he took was a WTF moment but otherwise, he did ok. But the offense had obviously stalled out. I just don't get thinking how sitting Cadeau helps that. Mindboggling.
 
Strange indeed. Hubert stated that he felt the defense was sagging into the lane with Cadeau or Seth on the floor making it harder for RJ to drive or for Bacot to operate in the lane. That's fair. But I don't know how Wojcik remedies that. It's not like he's some major 3 point threat. Hubert also pointed to Wojcik's size as reason he played over the other two. In fairness, Wojcik mostly played well. He rebounded well, made the 3 and played decent defense. I had less of an issue with Withers' minutes. Withers did a couple nice things. He made a tough bucket when we needed one badly, he had two nice defensive possessions, one of which he finished off with a strong rebound and he had the tip out for an offensive rebound. That absurd 3 pointer he took was a WTF moment but otherwise, he did ok. But the offense had obviously stalled out. I just don't get thinking how sitting Cadeau helps that. Mindboggling.
to be fair I don’t know jack shyt about coaching basketball. But it seems to me in a situation
Like the second half with the season and people’s college careers on the line you just put your best players out there and say fuk the X’s and O’s and sagging defense and two extra inches of height And live or die with the guys that got you there. Not with withers and wocheck. (No disrespect to them). But that’s just me.
 
Seth stays and EC follows his mommies wishes and transfers.
Wait. Cadeau's mom wants him to leave? Is that for real?

I've been saying we should probably add a quality PG who could back up this year and start next year. But if EC leaves, we'll need to dial up that urgency.
 
Wait. Cadeau's mom wants him to leave? Is that for real?

I've been saying we should probably add a quality PG who could back up this year and start next year. But if EC leaves, we'll need to dial up that urgency.
I have not seen a single post that would make me believe that is real. EC's mom, and for good reason, has liked a few posts about what in the world Hubert was thinking keeping her son on the bench. I have seen nothing about him transferring. Remember his buddy Ian is about to show up and from everything that we've seen and heard up until the second half of the Alabama game, he loves it here. He loves coach Davis, he loves coach Paige, and he loves his teammates. I would be very shocked to see him go anywhere.
 
I have not seen a single post that would make me believe that is real. EC's mom, and for good reason, has liked a few posts about what in the world Hubert was thinking keeping her son on the bench. I have seen nothing about him transferring. Remember his buddy Ian is about to show up and from everything that we've seen and heard up until the second half of the Alabama game, he loves it here. He loves coach Davis, he loves coach Paige, and he loves his teammates. I would be very shocked to see him go anywhere.
Good to hear.

I still think we need a good PG from the portal who can back up this year and compete for the starting slot the following year.

I'm still harboring the hope that EC gets really good and is drafted in the 1st round next year.
 
It is only one data point, but Cadeau (-10) and Trimble (-7) had the worst plus-minus stats on the team. Wojcik had the best of the entire team (+9).

I don't think Wojcik vs Cadeau/Trimble is what cost us the game. Blowing dunks and RJ having a horrible game were more the culprit than W's PT.

ETA - oh, and Larry Bird wanna-be was amazing, gotta give him credit.
thanks for a rationale response
 
After Coach Davis was hired, I was kind of frustrated because I didn't think he (being a no-experience head coach) would be the best available for the best and, what I felt should be, the most-coveted college basketball job. 3 seasons in, and a regular-season conference title, 2 sweet 16's, a final four and title game appearance later, especially the rebound after year 2, makes me feel content and hopeful for Carolina Basketball.

The college game is quickly evolving. I'm intrigued to see how Davis evolves as a coach. There are more rough years ahead and heart-wrenching moments. But all of that combined will make his (if he can grow as a coach) 1982 moment that much sweeter.
 
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