Nassir Little to announce tonight at 6pm
- Thread starter dadika13
- Start date
Do the players have to certify that they haven't accepted any money? And even if so - how would that violate some anti trust law? Which law? Also, gift receivers don't have to pay taxes on the gift received, or report it. So no problem there either.
The worst case scenario is they get deemed ineligible for their one year of college basketball. Unfortunate? Yes. Worth $150,000? Absolutely.
Well of course the kid has to answer if he has taken any money or not and based on that as well as any additional info the coach may have the program certifies to the NCAA. Sorry but I assumed everyone already realized that.
Actually, by definition it is not a gift, money to play, it is payment for services rendered.
Re-read the very root of this FBI investigation to see what anti trust laws have been violated. Kinda real hard to believe that you are unaware of any anti trust laws that would be violated, I get you are trying to make your case bgut I would hope by now you would realize that playing dumb does not work real well with me?
Well then why haven't any athletes that have taken money in the past gotten charged with anti trust crimes?
And it is a gift. From a shoe company or whomever. If it came from the school it would be payment for services.
The athletes aren't in trouble, it's the coaches and apparel companies. Playing dumb might not work well with you but being dumb apparently does.
It's not "Imagetmine", it's simply a choice between what you'd rather have: a year of amateur athletics or $150K. Apparently you'd prefer the year of college ball, that's fine. Some people evidently would prefer the $150k, to each their own.
This might be where all the disagreement is coming in..... a simple definition.
If a lump-sum, under-the-table, six figure transaction occurs, is it a payment or a gift?
I would think that most people would define it as a payment, hence taxable, hence the taking of such without declaration is breaking the law.
Even if it were deemed a gift, taking such a gift would likely contravene NCAA rules (whether you agree with those rules or not)
By either definition, the taking of the money would require some level of moral corruption: you are either prepared to break the laws, or the governing rules of the body you want to join.
No judgement here, you wanna say you'd break laws and rules, that's your karma.
Regardless of the repercussions for the University and others involved? No thanks. I'll wait a year and do it honestly. The fact that you and TH11 are trying to defend this behavior is disappointing. It demonstrates your belief that the end justifies the means. On that we disagree vehemently.
Let me ask you. If you knew that your son could go to jail if he took this dirty money, would you still advise him to take it? Is it just because it's not technically a criminal offense that you would advise him to do so?
Suffice it to say we disagree on this. My moral compass would not allow me to give my son that kind of advice. What are you teaching him? If you don't agree with a law, it's okay to break it? What would the world be like if the majority of people felt this way? Anarchy.
Agreed. But it's not illegal, or in my opinion even morally wrong. You're getting offered a gift to pick a certain school. If that costs a year of amateur status, so be it.
Ok cool.
Oh. Lol.
You're hanging your hat on the morality of a definition for amateurism that just so happens to benefit the institution that defines and enforces it immensely, at the expense of your son in this hypothetical situation no less.
You're asking me if I'd feel bad if the people offering me $150k got in trouble for offering me $150k? No, I wouldn't.
I definitely wouldn't encourage him to take the money if he could go to jail for doing so. I'm not sure why that's even a question. But since it's not illegal, and he can't go to jail, I wouldn't have a problem if he did.
We definitely do disagree, and that's fine. My moral compass wouldn't allow me to deny my son a shot at $150k at a young age if he so chose, when he wouldn't be breaking laws by doing so. Another question that never should have been asked but I'll answer anyways - it's not ok to break a law even if you don't agree with it. Fortunately this isn't breaking a law and thus I'm not sure why you're bringing that up.
I don't like that players are being paid under the table, I don't agree with that.
But the fact of the matter is the NCAA creates this kind of thing by the very nature of its rules. Think about it. They make millions off of tv deals and contracts showcasing the top teams, universities make millions, the coaches get paid millions. And who is responsible for all that money being made? The 18-22 year old players actually playing the game. Their likeness is used to make money and they get nothing other than a scholarship that covers tuition, books, lousy cafeteria food and a room. Doesn't exactly make ends meet for them or their families.
The concept of the student-athlete at the D1 level is crock of shit. It's not about the grades, it's about the almighty dollar. To pretend otherwise is laughable. And when you have kids who can get a little extra while everyone gets rich, why wouldn't take it?
Let's get off the moral high horse about this.
But the fact of the matter is the NCAA creates this kind of thing by the very nature of its rules. Think about it. They make millions off of tv deals and contracts showcasing the top teams, universities make millions, the coaches get paid millions. And who is responsible for all that money being made? The 18-22 year old players actually playing the game. Their likeness is used to make money and they get nothing other than a scholarship that covers tuition, books, lousy cafeteria food and a room. Doesn't exactly make ends meet for them or their families.
The concept of the student-athlete at the D1 level is crock of shit. It's not about the grades, it's about the almighty dollar. To pretend otherwise is laughable. And when you have kids who can get a little extra while everyone gets rich, why wouldn't take it?
Let's get off the moral high horse about this.
1. I agree with you, the NCAA needs a heavy dose of reform. Cool, we agree on that.
2. It's not about taking a moral high ground, it's about openly stating you'd break rules and potentially the law.... once you cross a line it's a slippery slope. What starts with a few g's tucked into an envelope turns into six figures, turns into strippers, turns into hookers... oh, wait, that already has happened.
The point I've made all along, is that to openly admit you'd break the law, or unfair/outdated rules then you're putting yourself above the law, or those rules.
It could even be argued that you, and others who advocate taking money, are really the ones claiming higher morality... that you've identified which laws/rules can be broken based on your assessment of the validity of the NCAA (again, not much argument that the NCAA is the key problem in the discussion)
Ultimately law/rules reform only comes from working together, not by breaking the rules. Collective bargaining, review committees, democracy...... worth fighting for?
Still to each his/her own. Personally, I hope UNC/Roy/His staff/The players stick by the rules and the law. That's the example I'd like my kids to have.
Laws and rules are not interchangeable as you've used them here. And taking money isn't breaking laws, it just makes you ineligible to claim amateur status. Which, many people are fine with letting go of their amateur status to get professional status.
Well stated. People can always justify their actions when they want to do something. It's certainly not the example I would want to set for my kids.
Yes, I am. Don't like the rules? Work to change them. UNtil then, either abide by them or don't participate in the system.
But it's like joining a club. You don't willingly join a club and then break the club's rules even if you don't like them. I guess it's not breaking the law, but it's breaking the rules of the club you joined on your own volition. If you knew about the rule ahead of time and still chose to join the club, then essentially, you're agreeing to abide by the rules in place.
The other option is don't join the club (don't go to college). You can join another club (Europe or D-League) where the rules suit you better.
The easiest way to help this issue (it's never going to be solved) is to just let them go pro out of HS.
Those that want to forfeit their amateur status are allowed to do so without any penalty.
Agreed. It is like joining a club. I would also have no problem with my kid joining a Vegan club, and then accepting $150k to eat a cheeseburger. If they want to then kick him out of the club, that's fine.
Those things are a horrible comparison to the NCAA. That's like comparing apples to broccoli.
Why follow the rules when they are hypocritical and do almost nothing for the general welfare of the athlete in question? Why should others get rich off of his labor?
I'm increasingly in agreement with Josh Rosen, the QB from UCLA, that college athletics and academics don't mix. When you think about just how much time you have to put into the sport you play, how much room is left for writing essays and reading books?
I'm increasingly in agreement with Josh Rosen, the QB from UCLA, that college athletics and academics don't mix. When you think about just how much time you have to put into the sport you play, how much room is left for writing essays and reading books?
You don't yet have children so I'm going to give you a pass. But I hope as you get older and have children, you'll find the value in teaching them to be more thoughtful and to weigh all options before they join a club/take a job/have a relationship. If your son got married, would you support him cheating on his wife if the other girl was really hot? I mean, he's not breaking the law (in most states). He's just breaking a commitment he made to his wife. If she didn't like it, she could just kick him out of the house, right? You're basically saying, "f*ck integrity". C'mon man,...you don't want to teach your kid that.
But you know the rules when you sign up. No one is forcing you down that road. You don't like the rules. Fine. Don't participate.
Look just because rules are in place doesn't make them effective or just. Especially in this case. It's not as simple as you're making it. Try putting yourself in their shoes
Definitely wouldn't support the cheating on the wife, but I consider that a separate issue. In this case, a school (or their business partners) offer a kid money to attend the school. Now I'm supposed to get mad at the kid for accepting it, and feel bad for the school that they offered it? If the schools don't want to get screwed for having ineligible players - then don't offer them the money that makes them ineligible in the first place.
So you would support your son having a sugar mama even if he's married?
@carolinablue34
I'm not saying the rules are effective or just. But that group has decided on the rules. I am aware of the rules. So there are two choices as I see it - (1) avoid participation or (2) work to change the rules. Please notice the absence of #3 - break the rules.
@Hark_The_Sound_2010
Integrity is integrity whether it's in a relationship or in signing to attend a school as a student-athlete. That's the thing about integrity, you have to have it in the most difficult of circumstances. That's what makes it such a valuable character trait. It's not about "getting mad". It's about teaching children values and the right way to live. I agree that it's bad for the school (or their partners) to offer the kid money. But just because they're in the wrong doesn't mean I'm going to teach my kid to also be in the wrong. I teach my boys to be better than that; to be better than everyone and everything else. I teach them to be the role models that others look up to.
@tarheel0910
How so?
No, and actually if you read the poast you quoted, you would have gotten the answer to that question yourself.
Cheating on your wife is not even close to being the same thing as taking money to play basketball. When you cheat on your wife you actually cheat. Getting paid isn't cheating. It's breaking the rules, but you're not destroying a relationship between you and another person. It just makes no sense unless you are just trying to talk in some broad, general "morality" terms. And even then, it's questionable.
lol
Admit it, that poast doesn't even make sense to you. "cheating on your wife is actually cheating" yet breaking rules of another sort isn't? Ok. We'll end the discussion because I can't go up against that type of thinking.
Cheating means you gain a competitive advantage. The kid gains no competitive advantage in this scenario. The school does, but the kid doesn't. That's the difference.
So does that mean we aren't going to finish the discussion we were having? If it's "cheating" when a spouse steps out on their partner, then where is the competitive edge?
So some on here would rather teach their kid to get bent over by the system and let them profit off his efforts/work, and not get proper value in return - even if it was offered to them. Not the message I would want to send to my kid, but again, to each their own.
