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Nassir Little to announce tonight at 6pm

Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
So some on here would rather teach their kid to get bent over by the system and let them profit off his efforts/work, and not get proper value in return - even if it was offered to them. Not the message I would want to send to my kid, but again, to each their own.
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No. If I felt as strongly as you apparently do about the institution "bending my kid over", then I'd simply advise him to seek a different avenue - Europe or D-League. But that thing called a free education has me thinking that my kid wasn't being "bent over" and taken advantage of. I don't know about you, but I see the value in getting 4 years of schooling for free.
 
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Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
Well then why haven't any athletes that have taken money in the past gotten charged with anti trust crimes?

Because law enforcement has not charged any with crimes nor directly included athletes in their investigations in the past, they may have this time. The FBI is not going to typically step in when it is a singular case as in 1 athlete taking money but this is now systemic with so many involved. IN the end they are not looking to jail athletes, maybe those manipulating them.

But just because you are not charged does not mean you did not commit a crime. I believe the point we were arguing was that it was said if they took money they did not commit a crime, that was what I was responding to.

And it is a gift. From a shoe company or whomever. If it came from the school it would be payment for services.

No, it is not a gift, the service rendered is committing to a program that they are paid to commit to.
By the way, I do not claim to be a tax expert but I do believe there are limits to gift amounts that are sheltered from tax. Actually federal money laundering and conspiracy to laws could as well come in to play.

The athletes aren't in trouble, it's the coaches and apparel companies. Playing dumb might not work well with you but being dumb apparently does.
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Whether or not the athletes are in trouble depends entirely on what the feds elect to do. So far the scope of this is centered around stopping the apparel companies and the sports agents from steering kids with the help of coaches. I assume it will remain that but you make bold blanket statements that they have committed no crime and I maintain if they did take money that they did at very least commit fraud and maybe a good bit more. When they certify to the school and the school in turn certifies to the NCAA clearing house that the kid took no money knowing that is not true, it is called fraud and to Federal supported facilities as all college are, it becomes a federal matter if they wish to go down that road.

Purely depends on what the FBI elects to do
 
Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
So some on here would rather teach their kid to get bent over by the system and let them profit off his efforts/work, and not get proper value in return - even if it was offered to them. Not the message I would want to send to my kid, but again, to each their own.
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Also, are you fighting the same fight for all the factory workers getting paid minimum wage to produce something that the owner of the company is making millions off? I mean, those poor saps are being taken advantage of, right? Who does that millionaire think he is ...employing a few hundred people and all. The nerve...
 
gunslingerdick said:
No. If I felt as strongly as you apparently do about the institution "bending my kid over", then I'd simply advise him to seek a different avenue - Europe or D-League. But that thing called a free education has me thinking that my kid wasn't being "bent over" and taken advantage of. I don't know about you, but I see the value in getting 4 years of schooling for free.
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I value 4 years of schooling for free. I paid for my 4 years and left with a degree, and would have much preferred to have that cost covered for me. But for a OAD kid, that may never finish his degree, the one year of free schooling is essentially worthless.

gunslingerdick said:
Also, are you fighting the same fight for all the factory workers getting paid minimum wage to produce something that the owner of the company is making millions off? I mean, those poor saps are being taken advantage of, right? Who does that millionaire think he is ...employing a few hundred people and all. The nerve...
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No not at all, and you should already have a pretty good idea of my stance on this from other threads. This is uncboy's stance, and I've disagreed with him vehemently.

I have no problem with owners making millions off other people's work. The difference here, is that those factory workers aren't worth anything more than minimum wage (i.e. no one is willing to pay them more than that, they couldn't get anything more than minimum wage on the open market or at another company). This case is different, because clearly these players are worth more than the scholarship for one year of taking the easiest classes they can get into towards a degree they'll never finish - because they are being offered that money.

A more accurate comparison would be one of those factory workers seeking employment at several companies all offering to pay minimum wage. One company offers him $250k lump sum, plus the minimum wage. However they have a union of workers and an industry policy that no worker can make more than minimum wage, and the company will get in trouble if they're found out to have given this additional lump sum, and the worker would then be kicked out of the union and company, but the following year could go work for a professional factory company and make millions a year.
 
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Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
I value 4 years of schooling for free. I paid for my 4 years and left with a degree, and would have much preferred to have that cost covered for me. But for a OAD kid, that may never finish his degree, the one year of free schooling is essentially worthless.



No not at all, and you should already have a pretty good idea of my stance on this from other threads. This is uncboy's stance, and I've disagreed with him vehemently.

I have no problem with owners making millions off other people's work. The difference here, is that those factory workers aren't worth anything more than minimum wage (i.e. no one is willing to pay them more than that, they couldn't get anything more than minimum wage on the open market or at another company). This case is different, because clearly these players are worth more than the scholarship for one year of taking the easiest classes they can get into towards a degree they'll never finish - because they are being offered that money.

A more accurate comparison would be one of those factory workers seeking employment at several companies all offering to pay minimum wage. One company offers him $250k lump sum, plus the minimum wage. However they have a union of workers and an industry policy that no worker can make more than minimum wage, and the company will get in trouble if they're found out to have given this additional lump sum, and the worker would then be kicked out of the union and company, but the following year could go work for a professional factory company and make millions a year.
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I disagree that's a comparable situation, but let's say I agree. I don't like that policy either. If I cared enough, I'd work to change the policy. But what I wouldn't support is someone signing up for union membership and then not adhering to the rules in place.

Again, if you don't like the rules, don't participate. Seems pretty logical to me.
 
gunslingerdick said:
But what I wouldn't support is someone signing up for union membership and then not adhering to the rules in place.

Again, if you don't like the rules, don't participate. Seems pretty logical to me.
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Fair enough. And I think that's a fine stance.

I wouldn't give two craps about the union/company in that scenario, so I wouldn't really care if them being dumb and offering money against their own rules would end up biting them in the ass down the line. I guess it's noble that'd you care about their well being, but I wouldn't.
 
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Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
Ya, like the guy who tries to sling annuities to anyone that will listen.
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OohBurn.gif
 
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The misguided nobility on display here is so comical.

The avg worth of a Division 1 basketball player to their school per year is $170k. If your son is good enough to be offered cash under the table, he's worth way more than that average.

Effectively, playing into the NCAA's idea of amateurism is willingly participating in a morally corrupt system, something I'd hope people and family members in a position of trust would look to minimize rather than naively allow to happen for my 1, 2, 3, 4 years of college ball.
 
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JumboShrimp017 said:
The misguided nobility on display here is so comical.

The avg worth of a Division 1 basketball player to their school per year is $170k. If your son is good enough to be offered cash under the table, he's worth way more than that average.

Effectively, playing into the NCAA's idea of amateurism is willingly participating in a morally corrupt system, something I'd hope people and family members in a position of trust would look to minimize rather than naively allow to happen for my 1, 2, 3, 4 years of college ball.
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Missplaced middle class morality while their overlords laugh their collective asses off.
 
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JumboShrimp017 said:
Effectively, playing into the NCAA's idea of amateurism is willingly participating in a morally corrupt system, something I'd hope people and family members in a position of trust would look to minimize rather than naively allow to happen for my 1, 2, 3, 4 years of college ball.
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Yup. I'm glad my mentors and family members didn't have the belief system of some in this thread that would put the well being of organizations out to profit off me above my own well being.

I'd be unemployed on some street corner now. But at least I'd have my integrity. Maybe I'd be able to sell that integrity to pay for lunch today.
 
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Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
I value 4 years of schooling for free. I paid for my 4 years and left with a degree, and would have much preferred to have that cost covered for me. But for a OAD kid, that may never finish his degree, the one year of free schooling is essentially worthless.



No not at all, and you should already have a pretty good idea of my stance on this from other threads. This is uncboy's stance, and I've disagreed with him vehemently.

I have no problem with owners making millions off other people's work. The difference here, is that those factory workers aren't worth anything more than minimum wage (i.e. no one is willing to pay them more than that, they couldn't get anything more than minimum wage on the open market or at another company). This case is different, because clearly these players are worth more than the scholarship for one year of taking the easiest classes they can get into towards a degree they'll never finish - because they are being offered that money.

A more accurate comparison would be one of those factory workers seeking employment at several companies all offering to pay minimum wage. One company offers him $250k lump sum, plus the minimum wage. However they have a union of workers and an industry policy that no worker can make more than minimum wage, and the company will get in trouble if they're found out to have given this additional lump sum, and the worker would then be kicked out of the union and company, but the following year could go work for a professional factory company and make millions a year.
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And yet again, the kid does not have to waste a year in college if he does not want to, he can go earn a living playing professional ball straight out of high school. No one forces these kids to play in the college game, they chose to and thus should obey by the rules and regs of that choice.

Your union shop example, OK, so even you know how unrealistic it is so why even offer it. Really, some company is going to pay $250K for a min wage job and that is your example that proves your point? Come on, do better than that.
 
DSouthr said:
Your union shop example, OK, so even you know how unrealistic it is so why even offer it. Really, some company is going to pay $250K for a min wage job and that is your example that proves your point? Come on, do better than that.
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First off, analogizing the situation to a factory worker/company was done by GSD, I just expounded upon it. But you're right that a company wouldn't pay $250k to pull in a minimum wage employee - but that's because in the real world there aren't those limits that prevent the worker from getting paid true value like there are in the NCAA. If those rules were in place in the "working world" (like they are in the NCAA), and one particular worker was that valuable (like top recruits in mens bball are) - then the scenario absolutely could arise. Try to keep up here.
 
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Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
No, and actually if you read the poast you quoted, you would have gotten the answer to that question yourself.
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Why is there a difference to you between a kid getting paid to play basketball and what would be your son getting paid by some old broad? Like you said taking money isnt against the law. Running around behind your wife's back isn't against the law either.
 
Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
So some on here would rather teach their kid to get bent over by the system and let them profit off his efforts/work, and not get proper value in return - even if it was offered to them. Not the message I would want to send to my kid, but again, to each their own.
Click to expand...


This is so stupid.

"Some on here would rather teach their kid to get bent over by the system"

Let's step back into reality for a second. Is there anywhere for these kids to go where they don't have to go to college and not break the rules to get paid? I do believe you know the correct answer to this.
 
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WhitePhantoms said:
Let's step back into reality for a second. Is there anywhere for these kids to go where they don't have to go to college and not break the rules to get paid? I do believe you know the correct answer to this.
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That would be an air tight argument if it weren't for the NCAA having an absolute monopoly on branding opportunities. They know that, and the lack of competition in regards to viewership and quality of play/coaching/etc plays into their decision on what is amateurism and what is not.

Also, taking $100k+ doesn't hurt the schools one bit. That's why schools offered it... because the kids are literally worth that, and much much more for big time schools.

But yeah, advise your son to cherish that $60k or so scholarship and play by the rules conveniently set by the NCAA.
 
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WhitePhantoms said:
Why is there a difference to you between a kid getting paid to play basketball and what would be your son getting paid by some old broad? Like you said taking money isnt against the law. Running around behind your wife's back isn't against the law either.
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Right neither is against the law, so if you have no problem with either one, go for it. I see nothing morally wrong with getting paid to choose a school, but I do see something morally wrong with cheating on your wife. If you feel differently, great.

WhitePhantoms said:
This is so stupid.
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GFY
 
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JumboShrimp017 said:
That would be an air tight argument if it weren't for the NCAA having an absolute monopoly on branding opportunities.
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So the NCAA adds value to a player and his brand by it's viewership, quality coaching, quality of competition etc? To me that sounds like another monetary benefit (albeit deferred) a player receives by choosing to play in the NCAA. Maybe the NBA and it's D league should invest more in their coaches and players to put a better product on the court so it can add value to a prospect equal to the NCAA.

If you agree to join a league because it adds value and benefits to you and your brand you also agree to abide by it's rules. If you can't follow the rules you agreed to then that just says something about your own character; same as it does any coach, institution, private citizen or corporation who tries to circumvent rules to benefit only themselves.

At the end of the day I hope the NBA eliminates the OAD rule so kids who are extremely valuable and don't care about or see value in college can pursue that avenue if they so desire. But that's years down the road with the current CBA so maybe focus your discontent with the NBA for imposing that rule and reducing athletes options at their big pay day without compromising their ethics.
 
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Comibo84 said:
So the NCAA adds value to a player and his brand by it's viewership, quality coaching, quality of competition etc? To me that sounds like another monetary benefit (albeit deferred) a player receives by choosing to play in the NCAA. Maybe the NBA and it's D league should invest more in their coaches and players to put a better product on the court so it can add value to a prospect equal to the NCAA.

If you agree to join a league because it adds value and benefits to you and your brand you also agree to abide by it's rules. If you can't follow the rules you agreed to then that just says something about your own character; same as it does any coach, institution, private citizen or corporation who tries to circumvent rules to benefit only themselves.

At the end of the day I hope the NBA eliminates the OAD rule so kids who are extremely valuable and don't care about or see value in college can pursue that avenue if they so desire. But that's years down the road with the current CBA so maybe focus your discontent with the NBA for imposing that rule and reducing athletes options at their big pay day without compromising their ethics.
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It's not a benefit, you're basically forced to play college ball because it's the best out of bad options. And while college provides brand enhancement, the NCAA sure isn't paying this "deferred monetary benefit" that you think is created. And yes, maybe the D/G league should invest more in their coaches, crazy idea but perhaps they could pay their players pennies on the dollar like the NCAA in order to free up some cash to do so.

You're second paragraph would hold more weight if the NCAA, coaches, etc were following rules themselves. And also if they weren't set by an institution that severely undervalues you.

And no, it's not the NBA's fault that the NCAA won't properly value their product. A Tar Heel basketball player is worth $804k per year. Please tell me how the value of college and maintaining amateurism makes up for this.
 
Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
Right neither is against the law, so if you have no problem with either one, go for it. I see nothing morally wrong with getting paid to choose a school, but I do see something morally wrong with cheating on your wife. If you feel differently, great.


GFY
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Your morals are already shit I don't see why one is any different to you.

"GFY"
Welp that settles that then. I can tell who the child is on the board now. No wonder your morals are shitty your parents did an awful job raising you. I could correct that though with a swift kick in the ass.
 
I'm so excited about getting Little. I'm even more excited to see his progression with one more year of school before he steps on campus. I know a lot of people a few months ago were licking their chops at the thought of getting Williamson but after I watched a video of Little vs Williamson, Little was the one I wanted more. Not that I wouldn't take Williamson also, I think between the two, Little is the better prospect for us. He brings more to the table than Williamson. I like the fact that he can shoot from three, but also drive and finish at the rim. Something that Williamson can't do (shoot from 3).
 
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TheFamily22 said:
I'm so excited about getting Little. I'm even more excited to see his progression with one more year of school before he steps on campus. I know a lot of people a few months ago were licking their chops at the thought of getting Williamson but after I watched a video of Little vs Williamson, Little was the one I wanted more. Not that I wouldn't take Williamson also, I think between the two, Little is the better prospect for us. He brings more to the table than Williamson. I like the fact that he can shoot from three, but also drive and finish at the rim. Something that Williamson can't do (shoot from 3).
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I agree. the more I watch him on tape the more excited I get, I think hes a legit top 5 player in this class.
 
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He has that fight attitude. He wants to go against the best and beat you. At least thats my perspective. I love that.
 
Nassir Little said he is staying committed to UNC no matter what the NCAA rules but that Roy Williams also insinuated to him that UNC Basketball will not have any significant sanctions.
 
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