Prayers for All Affected @ Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School
- Thread starter BillyL
- Start date
@BillyL not a day goes by that i don’t think about this stuff...we have one in elementary, middle, and high school.
We hid under our desks in the 60s, Gary . . I'd be willing to pay for whatever is necessary to protect our kids, armed guards, secured entryways, you name it. No child should ever have to be in fear or in harm's way while in our schools.
Losing a child in this way would destroy my life.
My wife would tell you that I called her at work in absolute tears when I asked her to pray for the families on Dec. 14th, 2012 . . and informed her that an entire kindergarten class was missing after the school was evacuated.
I may have lost my man-card that day, but, I'm not ashamed for it . . not one bit, ever.
Put armed security in all schools and tear down those "gun free zone" signs that have been erected and are an open invite for nut jobs like this Cruz to come in and start shooting.
BTW apparently this POS was kicked out of this school but knew the lay of the land enough to pull the fire alarm and then when the kids started exiting the school he started shooting
BTW apparently this POS was kicked out of this school but knew the lay of the land enough to pull the fire alarm and then when the kids started exiting the school he started shooting
resource officers are armed, they are here anyway.
as for this location, there were two iirc, for a 3000 student population...how many armed officers do you want to pay for?
it might be easier to just take these ar-15 rifles away from people...several military and security officers interviewed after each of these tragedies say there is no need to have weapons of war in the streets...you disagree with them?
well apparently everyone dropped the ball at this school as this kid was a KNOWN troublemaker and actually kicked out of the school, yet he walks in and does this today
he was a head case.... his friends pointed out his love affair with guns AND bombs. Apparently his social media was chock full of violent references and youtube channels.
Good luck with taking away guns from folks, 99.999% of whom are law abiding and want to protect their families and property.
he was a head case.... his friends pointed out his love affair with guns AND bombs. Apparently his social media was chock full of violent references and youtube channels.
Good luck with taking away guns from folks, 99.999% of whom are law abiding and want to protect their families and property.
so, are you in favor of prohibiting the ownership of ar-15 rifles?
and if in fact his social media feed was loaded with violent references, do you think that should be a flag for prohibiting ownership of semi-automatic weapons?
you’re not answering the question...do you believe the ar-15 should be illegal to own?
i never said “take away guns” and neither have any others...people that believe in the 2nd amendment are advocating as such.
i noticed you didn’t answer the part about staffing schools with addtional armed officers...any reason why?
and the gov had no comment either for a 19 yr old with “issues” to have an assault weapon.
what we need to say is we’ve done everything possible to make it as easy as possible to purchase or own an assault weapon.
what we need to say is we’ve done everything possible to make it as easy as possible to purchase or own an assault weapon.
JMHO
I'd like to see all exterior doors locked. Visitors would have to be buzzed in by the front office. I'd also like to see at least 1 armed teacher on every hallway. There could be rigorous training by law enforcement for school personnel. For example we have a veteran on one of our hallways who would be a great candidate and I would certainly volunteer, Been around guns my whole life. I don't believe if these idiots thought they were going into situations like this there would be as many if any.
I'd like to see all exterior doors locked. Visitors would have to be buzzed in by the front office. I'd also like to see at least 1 armed teacher on every hallway. There could be rigorous training by law enforcement for school personnel. For example we have a veteran on one of our hallways who would be a great candidate and I would certainly volunteer, Been around guns my whole life. I don't believe if these idiots thought they were going into situations like this there would be as many if any.
That haven't said exactly, but they have said it was purchased legally.
I don’t know what to say. The toothpaste is out of the tube and can’t be put back in. Our society has lost its way. We can ban semi auto weapons, we can make more stringent background checks, we could employ more armed school security, we could actually enforce current laws; none of it will stop what we’re seeing. At this point, I’d relinquish some rights to try but efforts would be futile. People are just f*cked up. And we’ve created these monsters in many ways - less accountability, more coddling, endorsement of entitlement mentality, obsession with violence, neglected mental health concerns, lack of faith, etc. IMO, this is just where we are and there’s no turning back. God help us.
So do you guys think that will make a difference? There are more powerful weapons they could get.
Last edited:
I generally stay out of these discussions but with yet another shooting and more calls for banning weapons, I think I have hit my limit.
First and foremost, I have prayed constantly for the families affected by this, especially those that lost loved ones. Healing will be a long process and no amount of laws, hand wringing or debates will lessen that.
Now, AR-15’s are not “assault rifles”. They are made to “look” like their military counterpart, but that is it. You still have to pull the trigger each time you want a round to be fired. Modifying them to become “fully automatic” is not only illegal, but very difficult to do and very expensive. No gunsmith would dare do it and basement tinkering wannabes will screw it up to the point of making them inoperable.
For those who say you don’t “need” an AR-15 to hunt, I have a couple of points. First, the 2nd Amendment is not about hunting. It is about protection form tyrannical governments. Second, the AR-15 is the single most popular rifle for hunting out there today, hands down. Every major firearms manufacturer makes one and hunters love them for their versatility, customization capability, ease of use, low recoil (depending on caliber) and reliability. Bottom line is they ARE used for hunting more than just about any other type of firearm out there. Finally, if we were to ban the ownership of them, will that stop this from happening? And who will confiscate the thousands of AR-15’s out there? How will these be taken from criminals, since we already know they most likely didn’t trot down to the local gun store to buy one. Beyond that, who decides what someone “needs” anyway? Since drunk driving kills far more people each year than these shootings, perhaps we should band SUV’s since most people don’t really “need” anything hat big anyway. Yep, a Prius would be much safer, so let’s just let everyone buy those instead of an SUV since we know SUV’s aredeadlier anyway. And since Jeeps were originally military vehicles, we need to ban those, too, since they don’t really fit a “need” in the civilian world. I know hat sounds sarcastic, but it is the same logic.
And speaking of buying firearms, how many of you have actually gone through the process? I have many times. First, in NC you have to go to your county sherrif’s office and fill out a paperwork for the first background check. Once you pay the fee, they take a week to check you out for all kinds of things, including mental health issues, arrest record, etc. if you pass that, you can purchase a PERMIT to buy. For all firearms, you have to be 21. You then go to the place to buy your gun, where they take down very detailed information on you again, including fingerprints and pictures. They, too, have to check the national database (FBI) just like the sheriff did. If you are flagged for any reason whatsoever, you don’t get a gun. Because the system is slow, most transactions can’t be done the same day, so you likely will be coming back. Then there is the price. Cheapest AR-15’s on the market will set you back $500 for just the base model. A good model will cost anywhere from $750-$2000 or more. Ammo is about $25-$30 per box, depending on what you get. Not an easy process and certainly not like going to Walmart and walking out with twin .50 machine guns like the press will have you believe.
Instead of once again blaming a gun, why not look at how this 19 year old with a very disturbing pastgot his hands on the guns and why no one, including the FBI, did a damn thing about him before yesterday. Or look at some of the mental health issues that seem to be getting worse not better. Or how about simply allowing schools to have trained and qualified personnel carry firearms on school grounds, whether as guards or teachers who get trained. I can promise you, no one will go waltzing into a school knowing a dozen or more trained and armed people will be waiting there for him.
There are no simple and fast answers, but we cannot keep blaming guns and punishing those who abide by the law for something they had no part in. We need tnacho find a real solution that will minimalist the chance of it happening again. But we also have to realize that evil people will find a way to carry out their evil plans and no amount of planning and preparation will stop that, nor will more laws or bans on weapons.
First and foremost, I have prayed constantly for the families affected by this, especially those that lost loved ones. Healing will be a long process and no amount of laws, hand wringing or debates will lessen that.
Now, AR-15’s are not “assault rifles”. They are made to “look” like their military counterpart, but that is it. You still have to pull the trigger each time you want a round to be fired. Modifying them to become “fully automatic” is not only illegal, but very difficult to do and very expensive. No gunsmith would dare do it and basement tinkering wannabes will screw it up to the point of making them inoperable.
For those who say you don’t “need” an AR-15 to hunt, I have a couple of points. First, the 2nd Amendment is not about hunting. It is about protection form tyrannical governments. Second, the AR-15 is the single most popular rifle for hunting out there today, hands down. Every major firearms manufacturer makes one and hunters love them for their versatility, customization capability, ease of use, low recoil (depending on caliber) and reliability. Bottom line is they ARE used for hunting more than just about any other type of firearm out there. Finally, if we were to ban the ownership of them, will that stop this from happening? And who will confiscate the thousands of AR-15’s out there? How will these be taken from criminals, since we already know they most likely didn’t trot down to the local gun store to buy one. Beyond that, who decides what someone “needs” anyway? Since drunk driving kills far more people each year than these shootings, perhaps we should band SUV’s since most people don’t really “need” anything hat big anyway. Yep, a Prius would be much safer, so let’s just let everyone buy those instead of an SUV since we know SUV’s aredeadlier anyway. And since Jeeps were originally military vehicles, we need to ban those, too, since they don’t really fit a “need” in the civilian world. I know hat sounds sarcastic, but it is the same logic.
And speaking of buying firearms, how many of you have actually gone through the process? I have many times. First, in NC you have to go to your county sherrif’s office and fill out a paperwork for the first background check. Once you pay the fee, they take a week to check you out for all kinds of things, including mental health issues, arrest record, etc. if you pass that, you can purchase a PERMIT to buy. For all firearms, you have to be 21. You then go to the place to buy your gun, where they take down very detailed information on you again, including fingerprints and pictures. They, too, have to check the national database (FBI) just like the sheriff did. If you are flagged for any reason whatsoever, you don’t get a gun. Because the system is slow, most transactions can’t be done the same day, so you likely will be coming back. Then there is the price. Cheapest AR-15’s on the market will set you back $500 for just the base model. A good model will cost anywhere from $750-$2000 or more. Ammo is about $25-$30 per box, depending on what you get. Not an easy process and certainly not like going to Walmart and walking out with twin .50 machine guns like the press will have you believe.
Instead of once again blaming a gun, why not look at how this 19 year old with a very disturbing pastgot his hands on the guns and why no one, including the FBI, did a damn thing about him before yesterday. Or look at some of the mental health issues that seem to be getting worse not better. Or how about simply allowing schools to have trained and qualified personnel carry firearms on school grounds, whether as guards or teachers who get trained. I can promise you, no one will go waltzing into a school knowing a dozen or more trained and armed people will be waiting there for him.
There are no simple and fast answers, but we cannot keep blaming guns and punishing those who abide by the law for something they had no part in. We need tnacho find a real solution that will minimalist the chance of it happening again. But we also have to realize that evil people will find a way to carry out their evil plans and no amount of planning and preparation will stop that, nor will more laws or bans on weapons.
Last edited:
purchased legally at age 18...but to purchase a handgun the law is 21...anyone know why that’s the case if true?
perhaps initially because there seem to be so many out there and those rifles are evidently the weapon of choice...i have no idea how many are more powerful, nor do i need to know.
i do know that the sheriff here in my county believes there is no need for anyone to own this weapon other than a police officer or military personnel, and i trust his judgement.
I wholeheartedly agree with every word of this. Let's just make it an evergreen poast every time a mass shooting happens.
God bless all of you who have families to worry about. It could make you crazy if you let it.
People who commit these heinous acts are mentally ill. You're both kidding yourself if you think they can be deterred. They don't care if they die. They might kill fewer people, but it won't stop these events from happening.
Ok, but why are they the most used for this type of thing? It's not because they are the most accurate or the most powerful. Could it be that it's more of a copy cat thing? The first person uses it, so the second person uses it, the third person uses it because the first two used it, etc. I'm just not sure how banning any kind of weapon is going to prevent this from happening. I think it's just a reactionary thought and unhelpful because it doesn't actually help anything.
Be careful with that thought. Not all of them are mentally ill and saying something like that creates a stigma about mentally ill people. Many of these people do have issues, but some are just good old fashion evil.
The plumber in my town thinks no one has the need to own a plunger other than the plumbers.
But seriously, I’m actually not as against banning certain guns as I used to be, because I’m willing to try whatever it takes to stop this madness from happening. I just hope that whatever ban is imposed is able to be changed if the statistics show that there has been no change to the amount of deaths (or worse, an increase) after the ban took effect. Because I don’t think banning assault weapons will materially change the death counts. If they can’t use a gun, they’ll make bombs. If they can’t make bombs, they mow down people with cars. These sick bastards will find a way to kill if they truly want to. We need to stop their “want to”.
Someone who chooses to slaughter innocent people is mentally ill. I don't see how this is even debatable.
If that is your opinion as an expert medical professional who has an intimate knowledge of every peon who has committed these crimes I won't debate it.
i can’t begin to understand why...all i know is it’s the weapon of choice in the crimes...when i think of copy cat i think of the place or the method, i don’t generally single out the specific weapon.
Imagine if the guy had used a shotgun with an extension tube or magazine. He was going room to room shooting at groups of kids huddled in clusters in classrooms after the initial assault. A couple of rounds into each group with buck shot and you're taking out 3/4/5 people instead of one per round.
The problem isn't AR-15's. Take them away and evil idiots will find something else to use. Had the kid known how to rig those smoke bombs he could've done a lot more damage.
what you just did there is debate the topic, understand a side, and be open to change...that is exactly what is not happening anywhere influential.
thank you!!
I've started typing about 10 different things to say on here, only to delete them all because there is really nothing new to say. We'll have the same argument that we've had about once every 3.5 weeks for the past several years and nothing will change because the people with the ability to make things change won't do anything to prevent it. We are the only developed country where this happens regularly. We have more guns per capita in this country than people. Yesterday, more people died than at Columbine, and we'll forget it by the end of the month. We've already forgotten Vegas. I could easily get shot when I go to the movies tomorrow by some person who has a problem with the fact there is a black superhero movie. So that's my piece on it.
Your sarcasm is duly noted. By all means, tell us all how these perps were all well-balanced individuals with no behavioral health issues. I could use a good laugh.
Learning a little more about this case and this POS Cruz
he recently responded on a FB page that he "wanted to be a school shooter and killer"
The FB author NOTIFIED the FBI and so the Feds KNEW about this kid and did what exactly???
The old mantra ..if you see something say something only has clout IF the feds actually DO follow up
Could this have been prevented???? who knows but we do know the result. IMO ALL school should have buzzers at front entrances with the ability to identify who comes and goes in the school at all times. The elementary and also middle schools near my house have such a set up and you simply cannot get in without being scrutinized and allowed access thru two heavy glass security doors.
he recently responded on a FB page that he "wanted to be a school shooter and killer"
The FB author NOTIFIED the FBI and so the Feds KNEW about this kid and did what exactly???
The old mantra ..if you see something say something only has clout IF the feds actually DO follow up
Could this have been prevented???? who knows but we do know the result. IMO ALL school should have buzzers at front entrances with the ability to identify who comes and goes in the school at all times. The elementary and also middle schools near my house have such a set up and you simply cannot get in without being scrutinized and allowed access thru two heavy glass security doors.
Ok, but you weren't talking about shooting vs bombing though. Your were talking about a certain type of gun. If we are going to think about banning something we need to know the thought process behind why they use it first. It's not being used because it's the most powerful or most accurate. Like @heelbent said, he could have done more damage with a shotgun (which is cheap compared to an AR-15). Getting rid of a gun isn't addressing the issue, it's just something superficial that makes us feel like we've done something.
@tarheel0910 you brought up a copy cat theory, i explained what my thought process was re: copy cats.
I can't do that since I don't know the mental makeup of every single person who has shot someone. If you feel ok with making the assumption that you do know their makeup, then that's ok. I understand why people want to always blame mental illness. It's hard to face the fact that some people in this world are just evil and by saying they have an illness it gives us false hope that we can stop this from happening if we can just get them some help.
When I saw the breaking news yesterday afternoon, I was tempted to start a thread here, but knew what it would devolve into, so I deferred.
Look, I don't want anyone to have their freaking guns taken away, and honestly, I don't know what the optimal solution is... but something has got to be done! I'm so ****ing sick of hearing politicians offer their thoughts and prayers every time this happens, and then go stick their head in a damn hole or take more NRA contributions and tell us how it's too early to talk about this after yet another tragedy. This is why I pretty much can't stand all politicians - they are all full of shit. I'm an equal opportunity hater - both sides. So, get off your asses and get something done dammit!
Look, I don't want anyone to have their freaking guns taken away, and honestly, I don't know what the optimal solution is... but something has got to be done! I'm so ****ing sick of hearing politicians offer their thoughts and prayers every time this happens, and then go stick their head in a damn hole or take more NRA contributions and tell us how it's too early to talk about this after yet another tragedy. This is why I pretty much can't stand all politicians - they are all full of shit. I'm an equal opportunity hater - both sides. So, get off your asses and get something done dammit!
I think my lovely and gracious wife said it best. “Sane people don’t kill innocent people”.
As a gun owner and life long hunter, I will say if there was concrete proof that banning a certain type of weapon would forever prevent this from happening again and the legislators would stop there, then I would be all for it. Neither of those will happen.
I think it is in our nature to try to “fix” problems like this because they are so horrible, but in reality the best we can do is perhaps limit the likelihood of it happening somewhere and at worst, lessen the severity when it does.
So why do these keep happening in schools and with these weapons? Go back to my previous post. AR-15’s are steady shooting guns that offer a more rapid rate of fire because they are semi automatic and can hold a magazine capable of many rounds. But, many rifles offer each of those capabilities, just not always together. Ruger has a similar weapon that has been in production for many years. No one has used it in a mass killing. Other weapons can do more damage but they aren’t used either.
Then there are the obvious but often ignored reasons. Schools are gun free zones, full of younger and less likely to resist targets and they offer ideal “kill zones” in narrow hallways that all students have to go through. Tris murderer pulled the fire alarm because he knew that would send the students out of classrooms and into the halls, where they could easily be picked off. He knew there were very few guns in the hands of people who could stop him, but he knew they would, so he left with the students running out when the heat was on. Couple that with a distinct lack of value for human life that permeates our society and failure to recognize and properly treat mental illness and we have a recipe for these types of atrocities.
We cannot dismiss what I said before though. These psychos are evil, plain and simple. They are opportunistic predators who carefully plan and execute their destructive plans. That isn’t something you can prevent easily. But, they are also cowards and don’t want to engage in a fight where the odds are more even.
What really burns me up is there was more than enough smoke before this happened to warrant someone stopping this guy long before yesterdays events and yet no one did anything.
As a gun owner and life long hunter, I will say if there was concrete proof that banning a certain type of weapon would forever prevent this from happening again and the legislators would stop there, then I would be all for it. Neither of those will happen.
I think it is in our nature to try to “fix” problems like this because they are so horrible, but in reality the best we can do is perhaps limit the likelihood of it happening somewhere and at worst, lessen the severity when it does.
So why do these keep happening in schools and with these weapons? Go back to my previous post. AR-15’s are steady shooting guns that offer a more rapid rate of fire because they are semi automatic and can hold a magazine capable of many rounds. But, many rifles offer each of those capabilities, just not always together. Ruger has a similar weapon that has been in production for many years. No one has used it in a mass killing. Other weapons can do more damage but they aren’t used either.
Then there are the obvious but often ignored reasons. Schools are gun free zones, full of younger and less likely to resist targets and they offer ideal “kill zones” in narrow hallways that all students have to go through. Tris murderer pulled the fire alarm because he knew that would send the students out of classrooms and into the halls, where they could easily be picked off. He knew there were very few guns in the hands of people who could stop him, but he knew they would, so he left with the students running out when the heat was on. Couple that with a distinct lack of value for human life that permeates our society and failure to recognize and properly treat mental illness and we have a recipe for these types of atrocities.
We cannot dismiss what I said before though. These psychos are evil, plain and simple. They are opportunistic predators who carefully plan and execute their destructive plans. That isn’t something you can prevent easily. But, they are also cowards and don’t want to engage in a fight where the odds are more even.
What really burns me up is there was more than enough smoke before this happened to warrant someone stopping this guy long before yesterdays events and yet no one did anything.
Good poast. I agree with it all.
This is exactly right. The weapon of choice would simply change if we outlawed ARs. But then the media would be doing for shotguns what they're doing for ARs now - basically running free advertisements targeting all crazy people.
The part I've bolded is a side of the debate that bothers me when I hear it. I won't argue that what you wrote is indeed true. But the US cannot be compared to any other country. There is no country as large as we are with as diverse a population as we have and as free as we are. You simply cannot make any comparison between us and any other country in the world. That goes for healthcare, education, gun laws, etc.
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
Transfer Portal Thread (Update 5-5, 4 PM: What Bigs Remain list added)- Latest: BustOursBeatYours
-
-
